B2B Revenue Acceleration
B2B Revenue Acceleration

Episode 128 · 3 months ago

128: Your Go-To Market Strategy Done Right w/ Pete Crosby

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Developing a go-to-market strategy is essential in not only defining who your customer base should be but also how to go about targeting them effectively.

After all, there’s little point in having a product or service if there’s no visibility to your ideal customer, no matter how outstanding you believe it may be. Your product cannot sell itself nor build its own brand and define itself in the market - this is where a well-developed go-to-market strategy is essential. 

Our host, CEO of Operatix Aurelien Mottier, sat down with Pete Crosby (Executive Coach and Founder at Pete Crosby Revenue) to hear his expert insight into how businesses can get the very best results out of their go-to market strategy. 

Dive into the episode below to understand how to get your fundamentals right, as well as common mistakes to avoid and frameworks that’ll help you understand where your current strategy may need development. 

To hear this interview and many more like it, subscribe to B2B Revenue Acceleration on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, our website, or anywhere you get podcasts.

You were listening to be tob revenue acceleration, a podcast dedicated helping software executive stay on the cutting edge of sales and marketing in their industry. Let's give into the show. This podcast is sponsored by going. Going empowers your entire go to mark your organization, but operationalizing you almost followable asset your customer interactions, transform your organization into a revenue machine, or unlocking reality and helping your people reach their full potential. Get started now at Gong dought Io. Hi You, welcome to be to be a revenue acceleration. My name is open in with you and I'm here today. We Spit crossby executive coach and found a bit crossby revenue. How are you doing today? Bit Good. It's going to meet you right. Great to meet you. To us, I've already met you, can of weirdly, because I was watching some of your video that live and delayed, but I do recognize you. A Big Fan. You are coach on one of the sense impact corps and he was extremely valuables and today we will be speaking about how companies can get that good to market strategy rights. So that's that's a bit of a too big itself. Before we get going, would you mind just introducing yourself, Pete, and telling a little bit about your company, but also your backgrounds? Yeah, I'm not sure we can answer that question in thirty minutes, but we'll give it. We'll give it a try. And my background is as a four times revenue leaders. So back in the day I was Acom that we sold. Eventually I moved to social network we've talking earlier. I was placed in palace for five years running that and then went to Ajing in China for almost two years. Once we did our IPO, took some time out and then did the bit that I probably enjoy it the most, which was joined a startup, first in the travel space, around about two and a half million dollars of a art are and we went up to the ten mill in about eighteen months. And then I joined any COMMIS business and we did the same thing. That in about two years and honestly I'd still be there today. is a fantastic business that called Ametria, but my my oldest daughter got quite sick, I decided to stop working with my wife take the time at home, which is what we did in Jan of two thousand and twenty is everyone knows. In March the while world decided, hey, let's work from home and I got contacted for advice. My daughter had an op it went quite well. Twenty year old girls don't want to hang out with a dad for the whole life. So I did some advised you work now I do three things. So the first is coaching and I'm coaching forty. See, he's founders C R osvp sales from the bay area right across to Israel, lots of people in the UK and that means coaching, mentoring, advising, working with those organizations. I advised some of the five organizations and then I teach. So I teach the course. We were talking about the definitive guide to revenue leadership and that's a twenty four lecture course that I wrote with Mandy Cole, who was the Clo at Cena fits. We have guest lectures were mark, the burs author sales acceleration form the silvicceleration formula and the prince support stage to capital and is a think. Who was the CMO at Tableau, Greg Holmes, who was the Celos Goes Zoom Up to the IPO. So really high level of CEOS. And the bit that's exciting me right now is I am currently in the process of interviewing the world's top one hundred chief avenue officers and incorporation of all of their theories and flameworks into the next version of the course. So recently I would treat CEOS Adobe and Cisco and a Wus shop fly and all sorts of the very, very cool, very successful companies take it all of their learnings and applying those two the course as well. So we can try dever something that isn't just what Pein Mandy think, but this time this is what the world's best to every new leaders think about how you should scale up your organization. Well, I think he's felt said. You like to keep busy. Bit. It's quite a few things that you're looking at the moments. That that's interesting. Yeah, I'M gonna I'm going to try to get on to the the course next use. They're really really enjoyed the first one. So coming back to to to the conversation today and the good to market and how to get it right. It's often that we see SASS businesses turning towards their selves and Marketing Team on the product is not selling...

...are when the grocers not as a as expected by the funders of the CEO or the piece or the Vic's are where is bagging and giving money to the company. But sometimes you may not be the sales or the marketing efficiency. It could be the fact that there is on the laying issues with the product or the good to market strategy. So that can of lead me to my first question to you, which all know. What are the fundamentals that companies needs to get right when it comes to go to markets predigy? Yeah, such a relevant question. Probably not everyone, but almost all organizations that have approached me have, at some point in that approach said something like we've got this sales issue or we got this marketing issue. I remember one specifically. They said to me, then we've got this problem with our proposals. They're not converting to the next stage in the pipeline that we write this proposal, we listen to their pains and their problems. Right spost we send it out, but the conversion from that point to the next point isn't right. Can you help us to get our proposals right? And it's probably an extreme example, but almost without fail, including in this example, some nothing to do with how where you write the proposal. Probably you could write it better, probably you could write it worse. It's probably all right fundamentally if sales and marketing teams are struggling, there is a very high chance that it sits somewhere deeper in product market fit or in the way the go to market team and strategy has been structured in the first place. So I go through a series of questions with organizations. They vary depending on the organization, but typically what we discover is there is something in the core value of the organization. Are they able to articulate what makes them truly mission critical, in other words, the thing that that solves that hair on fire problem the organizations have? Can they solve that and articulate it really easily and succinctly? And second what is it about the way they solve the PROB that problem that makes them they're normally not, you leakue. It's unusual to be unique. It might not even be desirable to be unique. Maybe you're very early if you're nat, but are you rare in the way that you solve the problem? You think about that as a chart with a y access and an x axis, with mission critical going up one, scored from one to five, and rarity going along the bottom, scored from one twenty five. Obviously you want to be in the top, right and corner. So what are the attributes that represent the core value that make use as rare and as mission critical as possible? If you can identify those things, then you can start to shape a value proposition that really works. Now what I tend to discover when I interview seeing at people, is must them cannot have a reasonably good go answering these questions in a none of them have scaled their business to where they got to without being capable. But often they talk about those things differently and it means the senior management team mark communicating in the same way. Of they're not communicating in the same way, then good luck to everyone else in the company to be able to talk in the right way about about the business. So that's often where we start, but they're all sorts of other things that we may discuss today. You know they've got their ICP right. Often organizations will try to target just too many companies and you end up try to shape your product or your technology to solve too many use cases and then you end up doing none of them well enough. Floor why not focus or just being the perfect obvious solution for a handful of organizations? So ICP is really key. Getting the value prop rides as all bunch of stuff around that. But often that fundamental core is we call products shaped correctly for the market. Backs done well, then probably your proposal is got to convert much better and maybe you don't have a problem with the way you end that proposal in the first place. So really is coming back to what what problem are you solving and and are you I agree with you. I think the world unique is probably not the right the right way. But how do you do it differently? How do you differentiate with with our people are going after the same problem? So that's the beginning...

...of the framework, right, and then what would you put after that? Would you say is then I guess come the ICP. So when you know what problem you are solving in world you can be unique. You can stop to say, okay, here is the business case, or do you skate sory? I want to focus on they just see find the ACPA, the type of companies than the individual in the organization. What about the messaging and to engage with them, because that's then coming to marketings or to kind of the the Legion team, the pipeline development team, and we see a lot of our clients struggling with that. Right the card this I was on the code with a client, a good clients of us, quite only stage and we spend one month on a program where we are not satisfied with the results of that first month. We were far below what we would expect from a bench moss perspective. And we're speaking with the one of the top selves guide, the CEEO and one advisor, see our type of advisor, and basically we just send them look, message is great, we explain what we are doing, but there is no real translation of what does that mean for the target ICP right, so you explain. So why is something with four wheels? You know he's got is got like a something that true term, and he's got something called an engine. And then you put something called betrol and you can go from A to B and that goes quicker than by foot. That goes quicker at the bike. That goes quicker than anything else that you've said. But what's the what's it for them? Okay, as we are speaking. I think he was a cus. Well, we actually do it nine time quicker and it's actually about solving stright issue. So when you get attacked, when you get to say but Ada, they can resolve the root cause nine time quicker. They can find the solution nine time quicker, which in my eyes is massive. That's the use case and that's why you create that moment where people are like almost that bullshit moment, but people are none and not too good to be true. I can't believe you do that. Yes, let's your that's how you push them in the net and say, okay, let's engage, but that's your reca moment. It was with the specific clients and we discussed it was an interesting conversation because we really evolved in one hour into something we are all excited about and saying now we've got a hook. But finding that Hook is probably one of the most difficult aspect that we see our client getting. I think they kind of figure out through advice by the time they get to it's what problem, the our sliving and our defriend down the way. They're sort of thing it the word they can't explain and me these the Lego for a friends is is how do you measure our dear friend they are in a tangible way? So it does you justify your change? Yeah, who says so? Is a lot to unpack there, but there's don't all right now, doesn't drop it a little bit, but I love that. There's exactly the kind of conversation that I was hoping that we could have. There are were to fame works. Probably that I feel a really relevant there. So I'll talk about the first one, which really comes before getting the body proposition rights. Once you've got this one done, the Baldy poposition becomes easier. It's the first one. Is really about defining what the pain is. You called it the problem. What the pain is that we're actually solving now most organizations are going to get I'll give you an example, but most organizations that you speak to, if you give them a white board and say like sticks and post it notes up there with slid the pain, they'll come up with a few things and then you ask them to score it out of ten, and so they'll give you a score like seven out of ten. Here I out tend in nine out tend hit on. What's the Plame work for this? Score. So the first thing to do is try and figure that out. So I was inspired. If you are, if anyone out though is interested, if you Google McGill paying index, you're fine. If you've ever spend time in hospitals you'll see this. The McGill Pain Index is a zero two, hundred and fifty pain score for physical pain. So a tension headache, I think, is about eleven out of...

...fifty. And I giveing birth like pretty painful, like it's thirty out of something very painful that my wife has. It's called trigeminal new Alger. It's a nerve paying down here, which could scores forty two out of fifty. And then I was doing this exercise with an organization. They told me up, eat, none of those things painful. Fifty out of fifty is the Gimpy Gim people on't like. What's a Gimpy Gimbie plant? That sounds made up. The none, no, Pete Google it. I Google it. Turns out, guess what, it's an Australian plant and it releases the sub seeds into the atmosphere that you can barely see and they land on your skin and then borrow into your skin and they cause such extraordinary plain that you want to kill yourself. Animals throw themselves of rocks and cliff tops. Is that bad? So if you and I went for an offsite in that part of Australia and I said to you, how rape can you just like pop into the jungle get that thing, you're like, no way my going in there. But if I am, I mean I has matt suit. Like the pain is so extreme that you know that you can't handle it. Where is you and I both know that there are some pains that are minor and you probably go skiing or do something like that that you enjoy. You know you might experience playing, but you decide the risk is worthwhile. But a fifty out of fifty pay no that you decide it's not. So I took that idea and I reshaped it. That McGill pain Scorne. I reshaped it for BTB sales. What's a ten out of ten play in? A ten out of ten play is probably my company will die if I don't solve this problem. So shopify could be a good example of an organization that solves it out of ten pain. If that goes down, I can't sell stuff. If I got sell stuff, then eventually I can't pay my staff, I can't buy stock, I'm going to run out of money. My company will weren't bust. So it's pretty fundamental. I'm a nine out of ten is, but I'm going to lose my job and that's often a bigger driver, especially large organizations, where people are at it were disconnected from the the enterprise itself. I don't want to lose my job. I must act, and so you can go down to that scale, work down to one identifine what the score is for your pain is really important. That's the first bit. So I'll give you an example. I worked for a company called TRIPSIS. It's a brilliant business. It works with hotels, tenzero hotels around the world to enable them to get all of the makers and business people to book direct on the website. Why? It's cheaper to book direct. It's more expensive to go to the online travel agent like Bookingcom and and and Expedia, but most people don't know that and they tend to go to the online travel agent. The pain that the hotels were experiencing was every month I have to write a check to book in and to Expedia for fifteen to twenty percent of my total bookings and every month that number gets bigger and bigger and bigger, and I if I could even keep half of that money, I could spend it on renovating the rooms, providing a new bar, putting in a swimming pool like this a lot of money. So that's the pain. They knew that bit. What they didn't do is they didn't connect it to the strategic driver. So this is the steps we go through in the exercise. If you've got that paying well, what's the risk that sits under these nosule in that pain. In the case of hotels, it's all hold on. Every time I get someone come into my hotel who comes from Bookingcom that person I don't have their mobile phone number, I don't have the email address. I can't write to them beforehand and let sell them more services. I can't try and get them to come back after so I can't get a repeat customer. We know from research in a book by chick quality which shows that you spend more if you book direct so probably you have a more affinity with the brand. You chose them directly, you're nicer to their staff or when you go so that's important too. So hotels really want to get this, but it's getting harder and hardest. They're becoming disconnected from that repeat business. So that's the risk. So that goes beyond the pay but then, because beyond risk, to this strategic comparative, which is if that continues, next time I want to go to Paris and stay in a hotel in the night sell on D S One with my wife and I go on Bookingcom and I get that map feature...

...and I see there's twenty four star hotels within my price range or with good traveler ratings. I choose, well, I don't know, just choose the one that sort of nearest rougherly. Well, want to be it's a becomes a commodity. So we go from I write a big check the bookingcom. So I can't get repeat business. So if this continues, I just become commodified. So no longer could I do hotels because for the reasons that I wanted to give travelers this wonderful experience. Now I'm just serving my master bookingcom. So once you walk and though that, that moves to must of the seven outs into an eight out of ten to a nine out of ten becomes really painful. So this is the process that we go through. What's The plain? Squirt highly. What's the risk of not acting on that plain? As we know, people tend to run away from pain and toward pleasure, but we run away from pain more quickly than we want toward pleasure. And then, once you identify the risk, what's the strategic comparative that sits underneath? Back driving the plane that I'm experiencing, articulating that in a really simple way. It's something that in a moment, when we talk about valley proposition, becomes really important. Yeah, I was about to say this is he's a fantastic reframing of very setting. You know, it's what's the cost of doing nothing? Was the risk? Are Riski it, you know, and asking what this question in a value setting paper, paper for approach. So yeah, so let's talk about that. Let's talk about the very proposition. We had it. That's the next step. Now you once you've got that, you've done that, you've done that assessment. I'll do you. How do you boil it down to the Chey moments? Wow, obviously, if you are the already a stage of the said cycle, you've got to be able to boil that down to probably three sentences, and so that's Proba probably building now. Yeah, if you are, I wonder want meeting. Of course you can got it a bit more for question and listening to to to toward the prospect says. But let's start with with the beginning of the process. I've I've been in their esting to also discuss about good to market strategy and I'll people are actually, we're going to get that for later. But I think sells people need to be slightly defic you're still figuring out your good to market strategy. I think the need to be a little bit more free spirits and be able to lend in different play season think on their fit. But let's took about that later. Let's look about that value proposition from the scale of pain to the very proposition. I would you push it there and make sure people are using it. Yeah, so, I mean there's more than one sechnique for doing this. The one that I use is a five step process which it's uses as a foundation those though pains and risks and teacher drivers that we just spoke about and tries to identify what is the big shift in the world, the power diigm shift. That means that we have to act and look. Until recently people didn't always understand what a power didigm shift but if you're leading a business now, you know exactly what a power didigm shift is, because we all just went through one. We could have predicted coronavirus, but none of us did. Coronavirus was a paradigm shift for our business. Most of us weren't working from home. We had to work from home and the consequence of that now is that workforces are used to distributed work and used to hybrid working. What do we do with our offices? Should like hire someone in Australia to work for me, or will they need to come to an office? All of these questions we have. So we know what a paradigm shift is. So what's The paradigm shift in the world that gives your your product, it's meaning? And that's the very first thing to go through. WHAT IS THE PARADIGM SHIFT? And I based this I call us the Raskin Matrix. I based it on the work of someone called Andy Raskin, who are you probably have read. He wrote this wonderful blog post, the greatest sales deck ever written. which was an analysis of the Zoora sales that could you can find his analysis on medium scoop it or come up with the number one results. What I did is I took he is analysis and tried to turn it into a model for building a value proposition. So the first bit is what is the paradigm shift? Once you've got the paradigm...

...shift, then the next thing is to identify will who wins in that paradigm shift and who loses. So, for example, you know works recently if for an ECOMMERCE business. I mentioned them earlier, a metre in the world of ECOMMERCE. But the losers tend to be the high street stores that haven't, I adopted or succeeded in ECOMMERCE. What happened to toys R us and looks of other brands you can think of the disappeared the market place, and those are quite good brands to talk about as losers because they were big and established and they felt like they were never going anywhere and then they did. And yet some organizations succeed. If they won, they broke through, they did great things. You can all think, probably of great ecommerce brands that are pure play online fabulously successful. You can probably think of, I. Some high street brands that have continued to succeed. So what do you do to break through? How do you be the winner and not the loser inside this New Paradigm Shift? So that's the third step. I was the common thread that joins the winners together. What did all those winners identify allowed them to win inside this New World, this New Paradigm Shift? So once you've got that landed, what should be happening here is that your your prospect should be going. Yes, you're absolutely right, this is exactly what's happened in our world. Or Goups, I hadn't even thought of that. You're exactly right. That's exactly what's happened in our world, and you should really be landing a strong point. That's when you move on to this four step. Fourth step, which is the concrete criteria, the framework. How do you win in this new world and in this new world, you're drawing out a framework there. So that framework says, this is what the organizations that won and succeeded, this is what they did step by step, and like bring it up what it's on a deck and show them how the framework starts to build and stablished. Show them what your three points, five points, ten points looks like. They should be able to leave that meeting. Not, they don't have to work with you. They should leave that meeting say, Gosh, that's exactly what we need to do. I don't know if we're going to work with this company or not, but that can I have to the copy of the deck please. That's awesome. That's exactly what we need to do. Obviously there's a likelihood they will work with you because it was you that shared that. One of my customers says, until we worked with Pete on the Raskin Deck, we were seen as a vendor. Now we're seen as a partner, and that's because the position in as is as an expert like ears how you win. So that that's the fourth step, the concrete quite the fifth step, then, and probably the easiest one to do from most of us, is the social proof. It's the demonstration that you can make this come true. Notice that we haven't pitched our product a tool yet. So we started with the paradigm shift, that we moved to winners and losers. Then we moved to the common thread that joins the winners together. Then we spent time on the flame works, the concrete quiteria that make this real. That's a practical thing that you're sharing. And, finally, proofs that you can make it come true. So sometimes you'll be sharing your customers or a quote from your customers in the Zoor, example. So are share a quote from our and Leeby, who is the CEO of box, saying we had a praise your world at a post or world, and the post or world has enabled us to know to succeed. So you share social proofs that you can make this come true. Now, psychologically, why do you do it like this? Well, reason you do this is because none of us like to be sold to. That we don't. If you go into a clothing store and a shop assistant comes up to you and says hello, sir, can I help you? What do you tend what do you do? Usually no, I truly went. Actually went. Its true story. I went to well, we've got listened out from everywhere, but in the UK with good shops called carriers, which piss you are the like you while you're by your wishing machine, are your laptop, or whenever you want to buy like a fire stuff like that and I actually wanted to get the new charge off from my laptop. Get so I'm going to show but literally, so when it comes to me and can he if youse out up, I'm good. And then literally I'm like, you know what, I actually come back. I need you wander how was just? I was pre pro...

...runt. He was a pet rubber. I was not thinking. I was kind of, you know, sleep walking through the shop and I said No. But I'm like, actually, you're going to save me time because I know exactly why I'm here and I don't want to brawls around this shops are you know, I can get inter us up to look at TV complicas, Fifty Fifteen, TV at over whatever. You don't want to be, and I'm a terrible by you our by everything that's new and Gidgetty. Yes, we so you need to get me out of that shoppers and that's possible. I know it. If that, I'm going to get in trouble with the wikes. So I just got the gay bike and literally was that. It was a very transactional five minutes. It took me exactly what I wanted to get. It was a couple of options available. We discussed about the up sheds. I made a decision, went to it till paid. was of fantastic shopping experience. I could have spent two hours. Probably that be the right thing, and coming Backuso was also that the dot need and so what? There you go. So, but hope it example. Incidentally, the reason that you did that is because you're free, your Neolithic the Monkey, but in his pretty ar threatened by someone trying to sell you. So you we we sometimes leaven a hold our hand out like no, it's okay, I'm just looking, I'm just grows and like get out of my Dave kind of kind of yeah, you could have figured it out in you and you went an host. But Hill or tense happens. You didn't go and look in the in the store, all the stuff and you realize, I don't know what I'm looking at now I need some help. So you can find the person and you say, please, can you help me? I'm looking for a charge for my laptop and they're like what kind of laptop? If you got so, what ages it? Oh it's a MAC yellow. Let me take you over to the apple products and watch one of you got, because it's a different charger for the air and for the pro. I've got a pro here you go. So now you're being sold to be you're perfectly happy because they're selling you something that you need. And this is the purpose of this reskin style baddy proposition, because what you're trying to do at the end is get them to lower their defenses and eliminate was called by a bewhere. But at that moment they should say to you something like have you kind of thing you could show us, like the you have a demo, or I can you walk ast your products if you've got something we can see? And you're like, oh, I probably could walk you through something. Yeah, and let me, let me put something together for you. Let I can give you a demo. Let's log on now. I've got a few slides I can show you. And because he'd been asked, the defenses come down, whereas what much so many sales people do is they start with the tail, show and tell. We know, show up and slow up, start talking, and there's we know rarely works, sure, but it's right. That's exactly what they wanted to get to his work. I was trying to ascute the gushers and days are refrainmson from it. I think this is perfect. So I personally believe that by els the e's on need to between it. We as if you sell them something, eat to ease or ed them to between a category and say this is make a degory. When are you reviewing which you are doing in that category, and let me get back to you when the they needs right. If you are sending a commuity staff, you know I'm very comedy days and mobile for the cower something like that. I'm not going to sell you a car if you just bought a brand new car six months ago. Right, but maybe in five years time we can speak again. Maybe you tell me why I've got to bring new car. But I'm on the leader that this is two years right. And technically, I know it is very difficult with manufacturer to get the pulse of everything at the moment from China whatever. And postcurely, if you want an electric car because it's in high dements, how we should speak in one year, because you don't know that there's Atain frame. You need to get the things going and to produce it it. So then you start to teach them something new in the process which which I think people it's a consultative cells. I mean he's been called a lot of things with our plain but this is the best way to build a relationship. You build a relationship by giving information that gets of knowledge. And I know what you're saying because we've got lots of we've got lots of distrust eruptive customers and it absolutely drive me insane when you just listen to the code that the sellers guy is good to. So we book a cold, we get someone excited, we create that light bird moment. When this is how you go about it. What US new? Right,...

...let's come and speak to me, and there is two choice you can make. The other selves. person you do what you just said, Pitt, which is you really go and you speak about the market, you speak about the issue, you speak about what you're seeing, you speak about the shift. You didn't bring them value and what people are seeing when they go. This is the old one and this is the new world, right, this is what happened in the new world and this is the benefit of being in the new world. You can say in the old one, that's okay, right, but then you create that scarcity, that sort of do you want to move because the cool kids are going that way, right, or do you want to stay that one? Which is fine. But when you do that, I think you empower people. You can almost rewrite a story in their head that they can then bring to their management. That story maybe will make them look good. You know, intail information, stats on what's opening in the market. This is what every single Bayoy is looking for. If you actually give them that, which will then put to sell to them, because you you actually give them a munition to go and look great and know, and you are right, you should never tray to send with the objective of Selly, but with, if you got a real fashion about solving the pain. I think that's what that's that's where you should focus. Or this is a that in itself a really good point, because you mentioned ICP earlier and they will, in any markets, think about what most founders, when they look at the total addressabul market, they will be able to explain to a BC or whoever that there the market is huge, like it's worth billions, even trillions of dollars. That could be true over time. The properly comes when they try to address that market and the trick is to find the very small group of customers who are going to love the way you solve the problems so much that not need to they buy from you, but they stay for a long time. You know, we know in sis what's more important than selling the business is hold nuns of the business that you've got, because that's how you get the orchistic curve, that's how you get good and at dollar attention. You know that the measure that says that this is a product that has pullut market bit. But the problem comes when we sell to the wrong type of customer and when you sort of the wrong type of customer but you sort of solve a bit of their problem. Sales guys sometimes a motivated to sell to anyone because I need to make my quota. So like please buy for me. But that's the wrong way to think about it. And getting an ideal customer profiles that you focus in on a co orper of organizations that all share the same traits. They all behave in the same way, they think in the same way. You mentioned earlier that you're one of those people. I'm the same that you like new gadgets, you like new stuff. So I give you an example. I'm wearing one of these it's a further ring. You probably know about them. It's the new one, so they're not some of the features where even be available to the summer. I'm okay with that. If I'm a woman, it put it in my periods. Not yet, not till the summer. It can't do that. I'm okay with all that because I like being an earlier dopt. I like buying stuff that's new. Equally, there are plenty of customers out there that are going to wait a long time and buy a much later in the process. You know when it's cheaper, when it's proven to work, when it's one in its category. My files in laws a great example here. I remember a couple of years ago, in buying a DVD player for a nineteen pounds. Ninety nine, ads to like, you know, the UK's version of Walmarts, and I'm like, why are you buying a dvd play like everyone else is using Netflix and Amazon prime. It's like, well, it's not buy one before. So I lack a really slow to buy. If you and I were to go out and so making phone calls and you know, I was cool you and I was cool my father in law. There's a good chance I'd sell you a new technology. I'm never going to set him a newt anology doesn't. We block a move and you got move them on their and that's well, you know, you've got to move on from the people at would do not understand the pain. They will be organization and say, you know what, we don't want to move, we are comfortable where we are. You have countries, well, maybe Germany and France. You know, people stay in job for ten years, fifteen years. There...

...is a reason behind that. The reason why they don't move is probably because it don't take a lot of risk, but they'll bit risk ad well. So how do you get these people to chat? Then you need to look at the type of organization you know. Do you do I want to go and sell to in forst, for example? Do I want to go and start the sales process with BNP Pariba? I'd actually quite you know, a child, but not the worst one. What do I want to speak to? One of those new online pain like the Monsoor revolute type of people who are, you know, bunch of kids, very ta codentated dose guys wants take the the curve much quicker than the other the idacy intake. They want to be. They want to be you bids, they want to be the fells gay to use it. They are not scared about using new technology and the technology at fully walking, but they will develop at they can, you know, have the ipacked on our it goes, etc. Etc. So you've got those two spectrums. You have to move on from the people that can. That count move with you. But I think the point that men it is the most important is that I don't get it when, if you've got the first meeting with an organization and yourselves person, the first thing you do is to take your lap about and do demo like you know, expecting, look, this is so good that, when you see it's going to why don't you spend some times? This is an opportunity to speak about the industry. This is an what e's on? What's walking was not working? This is an opportunity for you to probably ask the question on the sound. Really well, the pain is because you know, sometimes people refrain the pain, okay, and they may have a different aspective as towards painful versus that painfully. We could speak about pain S, thresholds on that zero, hundred and fifty and you go to someone a sell Oh my God, my adeck that. That's fifty right. Some other people's are attack. That's fine. I'm a I'm a functioning alcoholic and I work with them for the last time for the last twelve ye hours. That's cool, I can deal with it. It's no problem. So I think the stresshold is different than you've got to appreciate that. But going there it's almost like a doctor. You go to a doctor, Alison Shoh it, don't say your world, don't say your world. I've got exactly the pretty words. Letting Chriss through what it does that shoot, it get its perfects. Got Us of who your issue. You need to have stopt with ast you question. Looked at the fake is. There is no presentation. But what I think is difficult, though, at the other end, because I think we both a great is the right things to do, the difficulty that they've seen clients face, seeing, because I think a lot of people would agree that it direct thing to do. A lot of people may not agree because this will think now seals process needs to be friction less. Friction less. We need to be the sells forcecom of tomorrow. We had to be the SELFS now of tomorrow. But I think we need to be very established to be really able to have a process that is friction les as well. You've got to down the more boom boom, boom, boom, boom boom. How do you find the sales people and train them to have those no safety net conversation because, quite frankly, it takes a specific type of people to be able to sit down in a seal level offee. So I deputy see level and actually speak about the industry and speak with speak about that business. So do you have stories or lifetime example of people who've been able to scale good quality sells, people who can have those good important conversation because that's that's an issue that they see in the market? Yeah, well, actually, you know, I would in my opinion, the quickly you can find process and predictability the better. The examples you give of service now and sales force. The way I would be thinking about predictability as a venue leader in one of those market leading huge the publicly listed organizations is very different. So how I'd be thinking about predictability and a seed stage or sho is a business, but I'd still be thinking about how do I prove predictability. Well, time of a bunch of back business gets to serious be it needs to demonstrate it that there's enough predictability that can be scaled up that the capital that they're about to deploy is used in a...

...good way. So that means that there will be a process that you endeavor to make frictionless. Of course there will always be friction of first, but the process will be a different one to the one you might use in five years time when you are large organization. So what you're looking for in the early stage businesses is, how is the founder doing this? Probably the founder generally not with a sales background, but they're succeeding. So what are they doing that successful? How do we bottle that and turn it into a process that works? Let's try with a couple of salespeople and see if that works. Let's identify where the problems are and then let's try and fix those problems until we can get to a point of view a one or two people can take what that found. They did so well and succeed. But I'd like to quickly come back to a point that we were talking about earlier. If we need too much magic, then probably we've got a product issue, not a sales issue. The sales process should be able to run with a percentage conversions that are, broadly speaking, predictable. Certainly during that period series a to be and I would argue often beforehand. Finding the right typology of sales person is really important then. So, to come back to your point, the person, the salesperson, that is successful in an early stage business isn't necessarily the person that is successful in a later stage business, which is very, very good, process driven. You do need someone who has got flare and creativity. I'll give you an example from Ametry, are one of the best salespeople that I had worked for me. I remember that we made a sale to love honey. So for those who don't know love honey, it's kind of the acceptable face of sex toys and you know, and that kind of that kind of stuff and advertised students. You know, that's the kind of branding. Anyway, she went to the meeting with them and she had bought in advance. She bought some penus shaped cookie cutters which she then made cookies the night before she went to the meeting. They loved it. Why did they love it? Because she did something different and unique and unusual. You don't need to do that if you work at sales force, but we needed to do that because we need something that set us apart. They'd thought it was kind of cheeky. It was funny. It wouldn't have worked for a gentleman's clothing brand, but it's certainly worked for love honey. Well, Theyk was that good to win. But because he next meeting they her memorable. So that that means that she was able to do something creative and different. That is useful then. So what's the learning from this? For anyone listening will learning is defined. You need. What is the typology of Salesperson? You need. Had you that quality that she that she had? I would call that creativity. They asked to tell a sense of humor and she was fearless. But really wachs create differ. It's a bit of emotional indigence as well. You know, people had get ring Rove it and I think it's a means of qualities of the individual and knowledge of the industry. You know, if you are it's actually that knowledge of the industry for me to passion for the industry. Are Passion for which you're are doing if you're really believing the product and you've got a passion for the problem that the this is solving. It is very difficult to notts get creative because you've been in so many of this conversation of people like yeah, we want to do that, but are we do you have to do that? But and then you you've got the response to the butts and the response to those birds. In a way, if you had long enough, I think they create the creativity. But the cookie thought is a fantastic adly, I'm going to think about that. That's question for you. Common mistake that you seen good to market strategy? What's the most common? Maybe? Why do those three mistakes that you see people making in the plants? Yeah, something the sales leaders frequently do badly is forget about marketing. They forget that you can spin up an outbound team, you can work really hard on building the cells to bottom a model. I run these models. I approve of these models. They're good. But place to start is how do we get demand? And the more then mold we have, the easier all be for our sales team to take opportunities,...

...run them through a process and turn them into close business so because sales leaders so infrequently come from other marketing background they almost forget the one of the places to start is how do we get awareness about product telling the market? How do we get people to consider the criteria for choosing a product like ours? How do we get people to come to our site and demonstrate intent, because those people are self selecting that they're likely to be and ICP and that's going to be lower friction and usually lower cost. The putting a very expensive cells development team to really work very hard on that. So I'm very pro sales to beloment teams, but I would rather my selvees development team works on the right opportunities than the low opportunity and failing to focus on demand generation, is so frequently a founding go to market and go to market challenges. Thank you so much for that bit. Look, lots of incredible insight. Love love some of the stories as well. Very, very useful. If any of audience wants to carry on the conversation with you, are actually engage with you because they may have any shue, then send for his good to market strategy. What's the best way to get to love your pit some near email with Pete Dot Thee for David Dot Crosby at gmailcom Bet Dot d doc crosby, and I will would lie to anyone that sends me anything as all perfect what I was an absolute pleasure to have you on the show and, yeah, thank you. You've been listening to BEDB revenue acceleration. To ensure that you never miss an episode, subscribe to the show in your favorite podcast player. Thank you so much for listening. Until next time. This podcast is sponsored by Gong. Gong empowers your entire go to market your organization, but operationalizing your most valuable asset, your customer interactions, transform your organization into a revenue machine whilelocking reality and helping your people reach their full potential. Get started now at Gong dot Io.

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