B2B Revenue Acceleration
B2B Revenue Acceleration

Episode · 4 years ago

13: 5 Ways to Elevate Your B2B Marketing w/ Tish Millsap

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Are you happy with your B2B marketing?

Are your emails and digital ads getting ignored as quickly as you can get them out?

Tish Millsap is CEO and S. Strategist at Revenate Marketing, and she’s spent a lot of time thinking about the world of B2B Marketing. Tish helps companies who are looking to elevate their B2B marketing by cutting through the clutter and getting the right messages in front of the right people.  She’s focused on companies in the hyper growth stages of marketing, and she loves building ways to bring processes and revenue together.

Tish is constantly being asked the question, “If I spend a dollar on marketing, where and how exactly does that translate into revenue?” She’s spent the last several years developing an answer to that question.

We sat down with Tish in this episode of B2B Revenue Acceleration to talk about the five practical tips she’s developed for bringing a company’s B2B marketing to the next level.

You were listening to be tob revenue acceleration, a podcast dedicated to helping software executives stay on the cutting edge of sales and marketing in their industry. Let's get into the show. Hi, you. Welcome to be. To be a riven ax iteration. My name is Nim with you and I'm here today with Tish mills up from rivenates. How are you doing today, Tish? I'm doing great. Ray, I'm excited to be here with you today and talk about marketing. That's lovely. Before we get started, it would be very, very useful if you could introduce yourself, as well as your company and your road. I guess we're in Rivenate to our listen us, so can you show if you was about on that place for us? Sure. Sure. I'm very passionate about be tob marketing, and part of the reason I got very focused on bb marketing is that you marketing can seem kind of fluffy and be to be, especially demand generation was really about helping drive the business and I learned a lot about marketing it really big companies, and then I worked at some smaller companies as well, and so I started my company about five years ago and I wanted to focus specifically on kind of creating that connection between what is marketing doing and how do we drive revenue for the company? And I really focus specifically on companies are in these hypergross stages. They're usually ready to invest a lot of money in a marketing but they need to build out the infrastructure, and so we focus on the people, the processes and the technology to help companies grow fast and create that connection between. You know, okay, I spent a dollar in marketing here. How does that drive revenue? How does that make the cash as sharing? And it's not always easy to create those connections, but it really does require that you build out the processes within the organization and you build out the technology, and that's what I'm really passionate about. Okay, and I guess the name of the company, rivenate, is a mix of revenue and generates exactly. Yeah,...

...what's that's that's the lovely name. I like it. What. Thanks for that, teash. I mean you have recently shared with US naughty cold where you've been pointed five consideration that any eye gross marketing team should put in practice to optimize the marketing of fault, but also to l them achieve that growth objective. Would you mind thinking as shroduce fife consideration and show some sorts about them? Is Yeah, yeah, so I've been doing this for a while and there there's there seems to be some themes that have occurred over and over again with with the clients that we've worked with. And so, you know, wrote this article because I was really thinking about okay, what are the sort of key things that we need to make sure that we do with every client? And the first one is going ABM. So account base marketing is really hot. Everybody's talking about it, but the fact is the days of high volume demand generation are over. You know, for years. The Click rates on advertising campaigns are going down, the email open and click rates are going down, and I was starting to feel a little bit like I was a spammer, you know, because we are. It was all about like shoving things into the top of the funnel and then just trying to figure out how to make a convert. And we're kind of in a new day of marketing, which is is let's get really targeted, let's get really focused on who is most likely to convert and stop blasting the universe. The problem is that ABM is highly manual and you really have to commit to it and be very, very detailed on not only just the accounts that you're going after, but who are the accounts that you're going after? Who? What are the contacts of the personas that you're going after in those in those accounts, and what are their specific pain points? But at the end of the day it's really worth it. I'm running some pilot campaigns now and and the kind of I mean we're seeing like a forty percent conversion rate to demo request and,...

...you know, compared to some of the batch and blast stuff that this particular client was doing before that had like a three or four or five percent conversion rate. Is just really worth it to do the work up front and be much more tame, more, much more strategic about who we go after. So that's one is. You know, just I teach an ABM oneonone class and I've been coaching clients now for a while on how to do ABM. So just really rolling up for sleeves and getting involved with that is tough. It's not those what we find it quite complex actually is the fact that they will also be that there is a requirement of communication between cells and marketing that that process glued. So marketing will have the ads, cells will push to Siddes, but sells we also get the feedback and that's continual type of fine tuning. I guess that is also important. But you are right. ABM is is a fantastic concept, definitely something that walks, but if you want to achieve the faulty person conversion that you discuss, you definitely have to roll your sleeves. That we appreciate that. Yeah, and MS sales people have to be completely on boarder, exactly right. I mean I said this week when I was going over a target account list with some reps, I said I want you to look at this list and I want you to be to think of it this way. If you got a lead, a hot lead, from one of these companies, I want you to feel absolutely delighted and excited and if you would not be excited to get a lead from that particular company, let's not have them on the target account list. Appreciate that's a that's a good way to go. A lot it. I mean we've done all the upfront work on deciding what the first list look like. We you know, did a ton of analysis, figured out what the target market look like, eliminated a lot of industries, did all the stuff, but at the end of the day, I want to be completely aligned with the sales rep and so they have to be excited about their list too. So the second thing that we I was I think about a lot, is building for scale. Is like really making sure that your infrastructure is set up for this...

...high growth space. And this is really specifically about the technology. But I want to also's caveat that by saying you can't overengineer it either. I mean you're you're going to be growing fast. You don't know what Your Business is going to look like in six to twelve months. That's because you're in this hypergrowth phase. So you do need to build out the fundamentals of your of your marketing technology stack, but do not get distracted by a bunch of bells and whistles and little tech, little pieces. You need the basics. You need to make sure that you're marketing automation platform is working, that your crm is working, that your website is best in class. And then there's thousands, literally thousands, of other tools out there, but a lot of the Times that they're just distractions and they're not going to really drive your business. So you want to really exploit your your tool set that you have. So I can't tell you how many times a client has come to me and said, Oh, I think we should get x, Y and Z. I'm like, well, you know, the tool you have already does that, so why don't we for the functionality that's within the tool you already have before for buying another tool? And that really if you if you reduce your tool stack. I mean even the smallest companies. I work with Ray. They have ten to twelve pieces of technology in marketing already, and I was looking at Cisco's marketing technology stack. They did a infographic on their their marketing technology steck. They had like forty, five or fifty pieces of technology that they use. It can get complex really fast. So trying to keep it simple. Don't buy shiny object things and try to implement them. Try to use the tools that you have and make sure that you're getting the basics in place. I'm really lucky I work with some great technologists who really get it and they understand that we need to be able to track the Roi. We need to be able to track the funnel. We need to understand the source of...

...where the pipeline is coming from and how to implement those things in the easiest and simplest ways possible. It's still difficult, I mean you still have to do a lot of work, but we try to keep it as simple as possible. Yeah, that makes perfect sense. So the third thing that I'm really passionate about is outsourcing, since sensibly, and this is if you're going into hypergrowth stage, you definitely need to think about what your team is going to look like right now and what it's going to look like six to twelve months from now. But the fact is, marketing is a very complex function. I mean there are people who have built their entire career around just doing seo or just doing paper click or just being a web designer. Every single, you know, subfunction underneath marketing is very complex and requires a lot of skills that you simply can't bring all those people on board. You can't hire, you know, an expert in every single one of these areas. But at the same time, if you're going into a hypergrowth stage, you really need expertise, you really need people who know what they're doing. You can't be guessing, because you're guessing about where your business is going to go. You're taking a lot of bets on what the future is going to look like in general. You don't want to take a guess on, you know, am I building my website right for Seo? So I really recommend, you know, looking for people who are experts in their field and bringing on individuals to supplement your team who should be, you know, a great team of high powered, talented marketers, but you know, who may not have specific expertise in areas and you have to make decisions about what's going to be in house and what's going to be a contractor. It's about makes of this scators race like. It's like breading any team. When you've got complexity, is good to have people that can match ship different skin sets, different type of individual ptentually people coming with best pructices as well. I do agree with with...

...you say bringing some mixedpel people that just focus on one thing and have lots of experience around that things and putting that work together can just can just get success ulricity and I've no doubt that you know, my clients have great, smart people on their team and they can learn how to do a lot of things, but sometimes it makes more sense to be able to move a little bit faster and with a lot more certainty if you bring on an expert. And sometimes it makes sense to to let somebody on your team's learn, you know, roll their sleeves and learn how to run paper click campaigns or build out a website. You have to make choices, is what I'm saying. There's always there's a lot of tradeoffs in that area. Yeah, so the fourth thing I want to talk about is building your database, and this is so fundamental to being able to do anything in terms of marketing. You have to have the names in your database and you have to have nurtured them. They have to know who you are. So, for example, if six months from now you want to do a road show series of events and six cities across various countries or in various cities in the US, if you don't have a database to support that, you just can't do it. You they're not going to show up, nobody's going to come to your event if you haven't acquired the contact six to twelve months in advance and nurtured them and let them know who who you are and why they should come. So it's really critical that you build your database and you have to do it very thoughtfully, kind of. Let's think back to the ABM thing. Who am I bringing into my database and need to make sure they're absolutely sure that there the right contacts, and there's basically three ways to acquire contact and if you're in a GDPR come country, it's even tougher for you. But you can go to events and if you go to events you generally get the list and and the contact information. You can load those people up. Those are great contacts to...

...get because you know that they are alive to say that, but sometimes when you acquire contacts you don't know whether the real people are not, but they came to the event. They're basically interested in something in your space. And the second way is through paid media channels, so that's going to be your paper, click campaigns, your content syndication, all that sort of stuff, which can get very expensive, although I would say events are more expensive. And the third way is using a vendor like discover org or dnb to acquire email addresses and bring them into your database, and I just would be very careful with that it's a great way to do it. It's cost effective, but the answer to your database problem is to not to just load tens of thousands of email addresses from one of these big database into your system and start blasting emails to them. You need to be very, very careful about what account see, you go after and specifically what addresses we cover. And for my team we do. We do a hand scrub on a lot of these lists, so we'll actually hand go through the last line by line and say yes now, yes now, yes, now, on who we bring in and make sure they really aligned to the the clients personas. Yeah, one of the thing that we we try to influence when we when we walk with our clients. As you would imagine, for what we do, we do touch a turn of contacts on the baby a monthly based on the quarterly basis. So we are probably a cleansing tool in a way. But I think cleansing is one thing. You know, making sure that Tish is tissue, making sure that I email is Emil address, making sure that function drop play tool and everything is still but up can see my script is is one thing, but what I also think is very important is the segmentation. You mentioned the point of you've got to trade show you want to do a compaign, and what we try to do with our clients is to influence them to have a bit more of more foundations around the segmentation. So we are asking them...

...questions such as, okay, what sort of compense would you want to run? Would you want to target that job function in that verticlar that industry, in that country or in that state? M We did not be great if we could get those filters and we could come up to a list of fresh contacts that are absolutely on target, so we could do macro compaign and the reason why we push that is funnos of thing that you mentioned. We see GDPA. So for us is extremely important to be a relevant to the person now, so the contract that make is key, but that segmentation being able to being able to almost false see the type of complex you will want to run and eat that segmentation properly so you know that in the future you will be able to filter very quickly and get access to fresh data and not have issue. Is that data is also key. But funny enough, we actually struggle sometimes to get into the level we would like. It to be with points and six months on the line desk us to a company and what I go? We actually don't have that data. We come filter to that level. So we'll have to do some extra data work, if you will, to get to that level of quality, which is frustrating, but there you go. It's so funny. I'm working on a project right now and it kind of comes back to my second point, which is built for scale, and part of that is some really tedious work around job title normalization and persona matching. So what we're doing right now is we're looking at the vast world of job titles that they could go after and we're creating these buckets of groups saying, okay, these titles are all kind of similar, these titles are all kind of similar and they all map to one of our key for personas. But what we're doing is we're implementing it in a way that it will be in the database, so we'll be able to if you said, oh, I'd really like to run a campaign to Persona A, this company is...

...going to be able to go in and pull all the contacts that they have that are related to persona a so that you can have an outbound calling campaign. That is all very similar, talking to the similar kinds of people who have similar kinds of pain points. But if you don't do all that, to your point back in data work, you're not going to have that accessible to you when you need it. And so being able to think ahead about what's important in terms of the infrastructure and what isn't important. It's not something that everyone thinks of in terms of doing this process of job title normalization, so that you can have that. It's also going to give them the ability to look at all of their programs, their email programs and their advertising programs by persona. So who's responding, who's WHO's interested, who's engaging? Is it persona a or is IT PERSONA BE? Is Persona be, you know, engaging with these kinds of campaigns and these kinds of messages and not these kinds of messages? So we have the ability, because we've done this multiple times, to know that that six months from now you're going to want to be able to do things by persona. But not everybody knows that from a and it stops them when they when they come to wanting to do a campaign like what you're talking about, because they had. They're like, oh wait, we have to stop and build the stuff all out. Yeah, some things that they mean visited yet sets is saving the enough time in the FIUD show. So yeah, insights, so that you have it. So I do want to say one more thing about building your database is that in the last couple of years something that has become really prominent is using intent data, buyer intent data, and there's a few vendors out there doing it. Bambara, the big willow tech, target, kick fire. I don't have that much experience with them, but what these guys are out there doing is they are able to track people's activity on the Internet and understand, from an account level perspective, who is in a more active buying cycle. So they have...

...all these keywords and they understand who is searching on which keywords and who is showing in it an abnormal amount of searching. I hope I explain that well. Did it? Is that clear what that is? Intent data? I think it makes sense. Yeah, yeah, so this is super exciting because instead of pulling a cold list into your database, you're able to actually go and see who's an active buying cycle. So I might take my target account list and send it to a an intent data provider like Bumbara and say who of these accounts are actively showing engagement, and then I would acquire contacts for just those accounts and start marketing to them. And we have been seeing some really exciting conversion rates from this because instead of, you know, pulling in somebody to your database who you have no idea is in a buying cycle or not, they may not have an initiative or project going on for your particular product, versus somebody who does, and it's just it's been really excite. Will like pull a bunch of contacts into the database on a Monday night and then we're blasting out an invite to a Webinar or part of our nurture program the next day and we are seeing people from this list engage with that content and sign up for the Webinar and download content immediately. It's so dramatically different than you know, just cold lists. So I would really recommend people, as you build your database, start accessing these intent data providers whenever looking that then well, that's leaves. This was a fifth consideration. So this is really about messaging and testing your position in the market place. And making sure that you're very, very clear about who you are and what you do. And a lot of these companies, especially if you're moving into a new market place, it's very busy, it's very crowded, there's a lot of messages...

...out there every day and you you have to be very clear about what your value proposition is and what your key messages are and you have to make sure everybody in your organization is speaking the same language and that they're using the same, exact same key messages when they talk to the market. It's just too confusing and if you're trying to break through into a new space, you're never going to be heard if you don't, if you're not all working in concert. I talk to my clients about think about it this way. If I had a dozen apples and each one of those represents a message and I threw all dozen that you at once, you'd probably wouldn't catch any of them. You just we go. You know, my God, look at all but if I throw one apple to you at a time, you're probably going to catch it. And you need to think about your messages the same way as like, okay, this is the message that we're pushing pushing in the market place right now and you need to make sure that everybody is saying the same thing and it's one of those process things. So that's one of the things in my business. I talked about people, processes and technology. You need to have a process across your organization to communicate this is what we're saying to the market place. Let's all be in lock step. Yep, I think. I think that makes that makes for lots of sense. Actually, we did recalled a butt guest just the bud that topic a few weeks ago about making sure I've every buds in the organization. You wishing just a misshe everybody didn't the organization. He's a truly going after'll the same, you know, representation of the company and saying the same thing makes sure that you make sure that the message is uniform. But also it's a way to inform your colleagues and inform everyone within the business that this is what the company is doing, from the accompliable to the cells person to the marketing person. If everybody on those list a message, it makes things much easier for outsiders or anyone, any soft party, could be a supplier, could be a client, could be a vendor that you walk with, but really get that around your very proposition, how you go about it. As we as an outsourcing company out...

...of arctics. I would like to come back to the soft point, the sub consideration, which is a rout sourcing. I'd like to pick your brain up about, from your perspective and your experience of old sourcing, what are the pros and the comes of of outsourcing? I appreciate what you are saying about you know, some of the pros would be having experts, people that do it. They in the out potentially a best of great type of relationship with the people at really on that subject, but if you could expand a little bit more on the present consolutely. Well, I think one is definitely the expertise to is the speed versus. You know, you can just move a lot faster if you bring a vendor or contractor into play who's already an expert net can just plug into your team. And if you're in a hypergrowth stage, it's all about speed. So that is a very important thing. I think our so just having the continued flexibility so you know you don't know what Your Business is going to look like from six months now and hiring full time people and your organization just may not make sense. So you may change whatever you're testing or whatever market you're trying to move into may not work out and then all of a sudden you have to do layoffs and things like that, and that's not pleasant for anyone. No, that's one thing. I think also just how many think? How many balls in the air do you do you want to be juggling? And sometimes it's just easier to take one of those things off the plate and say, okay, I have an expert who's handling that. It's an about executive attention. That's kind of what I'm trying to say, is that, you know, you really have to decide where you're going to place your emphasis and and what makes sense. And I would say I want to kind of make another note about flexibility. I was thinking about copywriting for one of my clients. So I usually recommend that you know you have outsourced copywriters and you have three or four people. You know...

...that you can send different projects too and things like that. But sometimes, if you are in a highly complex buying cycle, you have a highly complex product, it makes more sense to have those people internal to your organization. So for this particular client because of the high level of complexity that the writers going to have to really understand. I said, for you guys, I think you need to hire some internal things. You do have to make those choices as well, thinking about, you know, do I need to have this knowledge in house and do I need to have that kind of relationship with somebody where they're really just a hundred percent dedicated to me? So that's one of the things I think about when deciding with it out source as well. Okay, well, good Bob. I think it makes a lot of sense. I think we obviously, because we are not outsource and we also activities. We believe in the concept of allt sourcing. We do believe in the concept of insourcing. So sometimes it's about in sourcing our resources within our clients environment, which is probably what you do, as well as having a lots of interaction with the clients, because for us, we always say we want to be an extension of your team. Yeah, business model, the way we walk, the way we think, the way we want our relationship to be, from negotiation at the outset of having a contract to the the kickoff of the program to the running the program needs to be a relationship of almost colleagues. If we start us really if we start to have a relationship supplier clients and, you know, pulling brings, it becomes difficult. So I think that unity in between the team, potentially getting our clients to engage with our resources to make sure that, you know, from from a mindset, from a culture, from a way of walking perspective, things are clicking nicely between individuals, between new mendings and they will laundry working together. It's actually...

...very important the skill set of all guys. We check that, but making sure that culturely, they will fit that organization, making sure that culturely, they will walk well with our ones. It's extremely key. I can't agree more and I think you're you really what makes a great outsource solution is absolutely about this kind of it's not you have to check the box on the skills, absolutely, but there's something else about having somebody who feels more like a partner and that is kind of feels a little bit embedded in the organization. I feel very imbedded with my clients and that's the kind of service that we provide too, for very much an extension of their team and that's the kind of outsource solution it's going to really benefit your business and not feeling so much like it'sis this transactional relationship. Now completely agree with well, I've got one last question for your teacher. We spoke about it's more important. You mentioned to me it's more important to be clear than it is to be innovative. Okay, and also the fact with the concept that it's from them and tool for everyone to be aligned on the same message, which we discuss as a few nuts. Oh, can you make shut up, marketing says, and I guess you'll be Dal to you. Those are the people are really just them effacing or on the same page. So I don't mean to not say you shouldn't be innovative and differentiate yourself from from other your competitors and things like that, but I just think it's so much more important that you be lear sometimes I feel like when we're doing messaging work, that people are seeking this holy grail of messaging that's going to be, you know, just break through the market place, and sometimes it's just seriously making sure that everybody is saying the same thing in the same way and that that's going to really make your value proposition clear to the marketplace and speaking of the BEDR team and and being in alignment with them, I think it's a three step process and it's really...

...dependent on marketing being very transparent with the BEDR team about what's happening. So I always recommend three things. One, we do a presentation at the beginning of a quarter and that sort of gives them a high level overview of all the campaigns that are going to happen. What are the expected results of those and you know any sort of concerns, you know things risks to the plan. You know if things don't get funded or things like that. Second thing that we do is a either a weekly or an every other week meeting with this and this is much more like focused on what's going to be happening immediately. So we usually do a briefing on what happened in the past week and then what's coming up in the next week. So what are the offers that are going to be going out? Anything new that's happening, and make sure they're really clear on that. But the third piece of that is probably the most critical thing, because salespeople are very busy. They've got a lot going on. They're very driven, they're trying to make the number and what you really have to do is support them in the moment they're they're having that conversation, and so that means when elite comes to them in their system, they need to be able to click on that lead quickly see the campaigns that that had, that lead has participated in and be like, Oh yeah, they talked about that this week or oh yeah, I remember that from the briefing at the beginning of the quarter. Be Able to click into those campaigns and understand, you know, what the asset is or whatever the offer was, immediately. While they're there. They also need to have, you know, some insight into who this persona is and they should have already been trained on what the different personas that we are, that we're going after and what they're key pain points are, so that they have all that information and when they pick up the phone, that is all visible to them and it's all, you know, just a couple of minutes they can kind of get up to speed on everything around that particularly. So I really think it's a three step process to make sure that we have given them them the information that they need,...

...both at a high level and in the moment when they need it. Thanks for that fish. Unfortunately we're getting to Jenofull conversation today and it was a pleasure looking to you, but at this point of the podcast will was asked our guests to let us know how audience could get in touch with you. So, Tishue, what's is the best way to connect with you? So you can definitely connect with me on Linkedin. I'm tishnels up at Reven eate and I also you can email me at tissue at revenate Marketingcom or you can visit our website, reven eatecom and fill out of contact us for me. I'll get back to you. Well, Tish, it was fantastic hating you on the show today. Thank you again for your participation and we speak to USOO well. Thank you very much. It's been great talking with you all. operatics has redefined the meaning of revenue generation for technology companies worldwide. While the traditional concepts of building and managing inside sales teams inhouse has existed for many years, companies are struggling with a lack of focus, agility and scale required in today's fast and complex world of enterprise technology sales see how operatics can help your company accelerate pipeline at operatics dotnet. You've been listening to be tob revenue acceleration. To ensure that you never miss an episode, subscribe to the show in your favorite podcast player. Thank you so much for listening. Until next time.

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