B2B Revenue Acceleration
B2B Revenue Acceleration

Episode · 3 years ago

16: Driving Growth by Aligning Sales and Marketing Metrics w/ Tom Grubb


When’s the last time your marketing and sales teams sat in the same room?

Do they know each other’s objectives?  Are they contributing directly to the other side’s success?

Tom Grubb is the Chief Strategy Officer at Digital Pi where his role centers helping companies do great things with marketing technologies. He specializes in getting decision makers to think about the outcomes and objectives of their marketing investments.

Executives can often get distracted with shiny pieces of new marketing technology, and Tom has seen countless examples of companies focused on the “best” technology rather than the actual end goals they are looking to accomplish.

While working with clients, Tom asks a lot of questions.  His background makes him well suited for his job because he has a long history of working in the technology, marketing leadership, and product marketing spaces.  He can see the big picture, the little details and he understands the overall technology landscape.

As a veteran marketer, Tom understands just how important it is to have aligned metrics for sales and marketing.  It’s more important than the metrics themselves! In this episode of B2B Revenue Acceleration, we spoke to Tom about how to align key metrics, viewing marketing in a different light, and choosing the right tech stack.

To you're listening to be to B RevenueAcceleration, a podcast dedicated helping software executives stay on thecutting edge of sales and marketing and their industry. Let's get into the show. I welcome to be to be a reve newacceleration. My name is Om and I'm here today, wit stom grup from gital Pi.Are You doing today? Tum, I'm doing great thanks for having me no problemat all, so our discussion today is about driving growsh by ligning sellsand marketing metrixs. Before we get into the conversation before we getinto the detail, can you please therus a little bit more about yourself, yourrole and also your company, Jidor Pi sure, so as a true strategy officer,the Little Pie, I guess in simple terms, you say my role really centers onhelping companies do great things with marketing technologies. I mean that'sreally the end game in practice with that meas is it's really geing decisionmakers to think first about the busy subjectives and the outcomes that theywant from their investment? It's easy to get distracted with the technologyand not really think about what you're trying to do. I seen too many companiesreally go down that path of thinkwe too much about the technology, without aclear definition of what doing so. My role is really to insert in a companyand look around and ask a lot of questions and try to understand what dae you got and what are you trying to do and as far as my background, I'm verywell suited at this, because I have a background that crosses technology,marketing leadership and product marketing. So I can see the big pictureright on down a the EWEES OF BEING INTHE TECHNOLOGY E N, I'm in usingthese technologies. I don't just just talk about it and there's no way that Icould do what I do. If I didn't spend a lot of time in the products and workingwith them, I feel lucky to do what I do. I really like it. I work ir some of thebest mines in the business both on the clientside and with the foks that arein our company, and the last word is our company disial Pie. We've beenaround for a bout six years. I've been on Foard for most of that time andwe're doing quite well we're doing something right. We just got name tothe five thousand fastest growing private companies list well tank forthe introdiction to th, that's very useful. So as port of the topic today,we know that the lack of certain marketing arlignment is not a new topicin the industry and it can be attributed to many different things,but the one I really want to discuss with you today is Awrong metrixs andKpis. Do you believe that Celsain marketing resurts should be thould, bemeasured by the sememetric foncourage alignment between the teams or? If, yes, what would be useful toundestone is what do you think the metric that should be used, or what doyou think this betrink should be? It's Yoour question, so I guess I wouldstart from the point of view that you know sales and market alignment is anold topic and some many people whol probably call that a lihetimeachievement award if you can actually pull it off and sustain it. I have seenin firsthand that the keys ton, the universe for alignment really aremetrics and it isn't just sales marketing. I mean, if you think aboutit, an entire business is supposed to be about deliverind results, and if youcan't measure thes results Y know, what are you doing? It's just that sales andmarketing are really one of the Lynch Pints Right. That's the engine ofgrowth, and so you know to me it's absolutely fundamental that youget is analytics right and into the rightful place it is t occur yeah. Iabsolutely know for a fact that these xanalycs are the key and so which ones.Interestingly, I would say that the best metrics are the ones that sales AFmarketing executives. All the way up to the CEO actually agree on understandand stick with so in other words, it matters less like which metrics youchoose, but it matters much more that everyone believes in them. They act onthem. They they have a constructive...

...dialogue around them. So it mattersmost that you get to that point then and which exactly which mattrics youchoose. Okay, so is it really about those the different functions? SELSmarketing management, almost taking responsibility in what they willachieve or agreeing on what they will achieve, but looking at the numbers ofthat sort of engagement at Enshak, saing? Okay, this is my part of theprocess. Is that what you're saying it is? And he give you an example, thisfresh on my mind, take a company that has been growing and moving in thetraditional model of I have to go, engage people individuals and have toconvert those individuals into you know dollars by way of engaging and I got toGoget people and I got to go, make them do things thatd move further to thefunnel, that's the traditional model, but Thena company. Thinking of a couplein particular, they come to the point where theyr have a large deal size andthey realize that it's more about Ocasiono, less O, that's a verydifferent way of looking at the world, and you can't just throw away the oldview. SORR WT new one, you in that case you have to both continue to endagepeoples, individuals, space, that ters people. Don't talk to Acou Te Talk, Opeople who belong oit. So, if you think about it, thesecompanies have to stop and recognize that they need to recaibrate how theytalk about market and I've. Seen this way out this exact semario, where thecompany suddenly goes from the executive say I want T, understand,attribution and the market theme goes off and they instruct the world aroundattribution, rather an attribution model, and then the business movesforward and h. They come back and I like well that was good, but now e needto tell us how your Agen cow, so regardless they have to move togetherdown that path and to be able to talk about the business and the solves thesame way. Absolutely, but do completely agree with you. Actuallywe what we tend to see ourselves in the market. We tend to see that we kind ofcome as the glue between cersaind marketing, but maybe a little bit ofmetaphole but th, that's kind of who we are. We come and bridge that gapbetween cersand marketing and often the dollars come from marketing. However,most of our interaction on a daily basis would be with the Selstim andwhat we've realized realize that it's really important at the the arly stageof the conversation or before you even stopped working on a specific project,whatever the type of project or whatever th Theengol, is to actuallyget Sert in marketing in the same room and just tell them what what we ale gotto do or the idas that we've got the responsibility that who will take inthe process the responsibility that marketing will take that servs willtake. And if everybody agrees you almost have that sort of, I would almost create like an SLA wherl.There is an agreement of what we are doing and you can documened and alwaysgo back to it, but I think for us it's really important because often what wecould see or what we have seein the Pastis. We get an engagement with themarketing team with the Dorals, and then we end up delivering something forthe sels team that is not trually what they want. So you end up havingdifficulties in actually proving your value, because you've got. I guess areceiver that may not be etween kind or not fully happy to engage with you soso I completely agree with what you're saying- and I think it's extremelyimportant to have this discussion early on and the outset of any programs tomake sure that everybody's on the same war, O rents and everybody is trainedto achieve the same goals as well as on Dostone, very clearly what their rollresponsibility is in achieving that that common goal. Sothat makes sense to me in your recent article about but marketing atanalytics. You mentioned that the view...

...from the top of the organization- Ibelieve you mentioned Co Gall of directors, etc is often that salls andI'm quitting you here sells, drives revenue and marketing drives up cust,okay, so thats Quiti bore statements, and I will be honest with you astatement ove used myself in the past. Maybe not in that. But that's you know,that's the reason why it makes me makes me smile, because I think you kind ofget it sput on in term of into of what people think. But what I would like toAndos on. Better is your point of view on what do you believe MarketingProfessionalal should o can do to change that Senao and avoid being seenas as a CO center, but more being seen as an investment yeah. That's a really good question, soI'm onoly kind of reflect for a moment on the bolth statement that I made inthat article. You know it really is about it's really. Speaking of thespirit of e relationship that I've seen I mean, is a VP marking semo for manyyears. You know I've been in the room, and I've been in that position of whata you done for MOU lately and it's coming. It's coming from a place o I'mgiving you all this money, and what am I getting for at fair question so thatstatment is really a reflection. He reality for marketers that they are onthe hook to explain and really defend, and I took that word defend on purposetheire market results, and this is the rot of the problem. The reality is thatthat position of coming to the table is in a defensive position, really setseverything off on unhealthy dialogue that IBO centers on a marketers. Theyend up thinking, first about how do I going to defend myself, you know, andinstead of thinking, how am I going to go and win market share today, and Isee this all the time and I don't I don't blame the marketers for gettingin in this position. It happened so every day is a new day to figure outhow how to keep your job and present dated that T at makes that case, but itcomes at a huge cost, because tin got the time and Energyin effort that aperson or team spend on solving that problem. Instead of solving the problem,O I'm going to go just keep Blod in the mark, and so what do you do? You knowthis whole conversation is really the center on this problem face it re.There is no bigger room in the world than rot for froment when it comesmarketing, which is an interesting statement when you get down to it goingback to how does this conversation get off on the wrong footing? The Smart Seayells they dont want to know that their marketing team is the people and theprocess and the technology to always understand what works ind. What doesn'tso? They can always do better, in other words, instead of demanding at theMarkin ton comein the table and show me what you've done and defend yourposition, you know every day and every way that that will happen. Naturally,if they come out t and say just show me that you have a method and a processthat I understand a d believe in to constantly be testing you doin better,because if they do have the end, resolve will take care of itselfbecause they'll use the data and the information to just always do better.So to me, it still comes down to it's a mind shift at the top. It really atsome point the executives need to sit down and have a pretty directconversation about. What do you really want? Fom Market Right, markenandgenerally doesn't create revenue. Marketing gets people engages them tothe point where some of those people go on to come. RAVT. It's really afundamental basic conversation about Marketings Role: How to talk aboutmarketing and how we're going to w. We can understand a marketing tha alwaysbe doing better, and what does that look like yeah? Do you feel that there is tha? The problem of poception is comingfrom impatience because no from my despective in it- and as I said to you,you know- I sells driver of a new marketing- drivegraveup cust. We is something that may may have come out of my mouse. A coupleof time or awsome. Teit was come through my mind, a few time in theperson can't I'm guilty of that,...

...and I think for me from from Maperspective, it was. It was maybe around the impatience of seeing resurtsor impatience of seeing this engagement and I'm glad that I've been walkingwith with with a marketing team that has been dealing with me managing me inmedaging that impatience to the point where, actually I can start, you knowand almost educate myself about. Okay, this is the way it's warking. This is wwhat weare getting okay. Now I get it now. People are speaking about us nowwhen we're engaging. We know we went to an event. U That's. Probably one of thebest example that I can give you about. The resorte of marketing from MaPerspective went to an event in Madsser. So a few months back and we sat down-and I was with with my with my marketing manager at the time we satdown with three prospects. Two of them were CEOS of their companies andobviously we wanted to speak about oporatics and the first statements thatBosh of them made, and I will rephrase a little bit, but basically they toldus Woa, weth ot, so many good stuff about you. We have so many peopletalking to us in a positive werl bout. You that we don't really. We don'treally have an issue about what you do as a business and and the quality ofyour services. The issue we've got his. Can we afford your survices mm? For me,that was the moment who I realize I was like wow, okay, as two out of threethat's, you know. Sixty six percent run raid this morning of people werebasically talking about a brend and we never really had that before or I neverreally felt that way before. That's why you just- and you know, tos that's onexamples. There is much more of those things that have happened to me. Ourconversation at happend, but I guess for me, was really the impatient. Sowould you put that in the same category? Would you breachin impatience? So is it?Is it the figt that you've got co that are a bit more of a financial view onthings or why would you attribute that that sort of mindset to yeah? So it's areally good point in patience? Is You know, what's the root, an patience is alack of claritan understanding or expectations that Av sad, and so youknow the more than marketing can talk about and help. The CEO and executivesreally start to understand this stuffoukind of dancing in an area thatthere is a point it which the executives have to understand at a depelevel. What Markin ISM was about marketing people do marketing case.That's a skill, the domain that they're good at and where a lot of marketersfail is an not very good if having a plan and deliver it. Actions to healthexecutives really understand this stuff n be open and honesty clear about it.So they're I patient, Itmeastat. Their expectations were never sad. NoorSomebody's missed out trying to get them really see. Clearly what they'retrying to do so, it's an event. You know, have you seid, clear, galls andwhat out comes on? If people understand that before you do it it's true of allthat so the media one? I hear impatience, it's a lack of time,commitment to get people the tablestand. What should they expect Sur guess on the SEM to Pickabo Dyou,see things progressing for marketers Josa is getting better is getting worth.I guess to my point. Is the question that I'm traying to US wis do Yu Seeat,cu r overtime, evolvings towards embracing more of the investment that ha'remaking into marketing? Or do you think it's a regression o our time I mean the answer? Is it cause Alon Lotof these ar depend on who you're talking about in case bycase faces? Youtry to trend it. I think a couple of things that are happening that have to be raised there on this point.One is just the sheer massive technologies that are available. Theconversation is turing more and more a...

CEOS, especially thetech business. Youknow think about these technologies and talk about them and certainexpectations like Ia. So that's Cret, Endof the conversation I it's now. Thetechnology part of the conversation has goten much heavier d. So that's changethings. On the other hand, the other pieces com into picture is hisattribution. A few years ago. People didn't really talk about attributionand now something that's pretty well understood and talked about it in a lotof differentats and so e. These things have crept into the conversation whereit used to be how many names do you get? Did you get today, it's more aboutthey're, more open and more capable of this exact level of talking abouttechnologies and talking about engagement e talking about attribution.So that is something that's changed. WBAT isn't changing fast enough is adeliberate process or method whatever you want to call it for all parties toagree on. So what what are thes INS GOING TO BE IN? What is the plan to get to our live on thestent? Andwhat is our I look like so it depends. I see some c n somecompanies where it's a healthy, productive conversation do all theright things. I see, others that are far far away and it's a mastic IATSO.It really detends you almost you almost feel like this is som fail for all themarketers that are listening to us today, it' some Tet. You should bemindful, during the interfiour process, make sure that you meet with the topand and make sure hat YEU can of discuss. What would be the what successmeans. I guess in aw way very much so ie very much so, and I would add thequestion in my pockets like how do you measure marking and wasn't the answerand then see how open they are to maybe Ei ther off course to Rethinkit Yeah?Absolutely so my last point with you today te would be a wrong marketingautomation, tods. There are many tools in the market that are great to ell,marking sells tem to keep truck track of metric to make them more productiveto drive resurts. But it's probably quite easy, as you mention actuallyearly on in the conversation to fall under the spell of vendors, showingbeauty from shorts Graf, with the promise that you can, you can ashieve the seminyororganization, so we speak about the technology stack and the beautiful the beautiful statement that they aremaking if everything sings then etc, etc. What do you believe is ky forcompanies to look at when they are choosing h the tools to Mersure theperformance yeah, even the way that that questionis phrase makes me think a little bit, so that kind of puts the tools at thecenter of the conversation and really what it wantest people to be thinkingabout. What's the business problm oure trying to solve so you know from whereI sait I get my hands into all these technologies, because all thesecompanies will serve. They get many many of them and what you realize thattoday is that the affordability and breath of the technology available tothe marketer is just staggering. Its tagrant and even a small Tomenum sisecompany can get these tools that are so sophisticated and they can, if they're,good and they're smart, they can engage mark the global scale, even a smallcompany, and they can outrun a big company, theyre, more Angal, so thefordability and availability and sophistication these tools has changedthe game framaticl but, as you said, there's a lot of them. So here's here's.What happens? Companies of any size, big or small, can literally gorge onthis stuff to an excess to the point where they're almost choking on itmarch. TAT can really dazzle, but it can also overwhelm so what's underneath.This is, and I lited to Earlieron is that the big mistake is you know youdon't go out and shopping for...

...technology without a plan that coversresources, requirements, hindline, benefits and kind of back to thequestion I asked earlier, it's like well, what are, why are people in ahurry get to result? You know these technologies aren't necessarily easy tobuild em on yeah, so yeah. As you said, we live, hear o marketing stats kind ofa mash up these technologies, they're supposed to all work together for agreater purpose, and, as I said, these technologies are ridiculously good. Imean most of them are unbelievably good, and so what does that mean? It meansthat now more than ever, you need smart people on a plant to get to the valueand the challenges that you know: Companies Race off toBitechnology, and they don't have a plan, and I will tell you this N. I goback to technology for a long time and some ways. The same old problems aroundforever are still here. Technologies, don't Stan yourselves up an ofigurthemselves and they don't deliver our lie without people doing something inHeavynyeh, we'RSE thin, you could do is go, buy these tools and just think thatI'm just going to turn it on in an hour. I'm get results, quite the opposite, Oone good example: o Marquetto, that's the Platfon that we work in is more andmore becoming a collection of applications for their kind of ecetera.And then, when you do that, you have all these apvications and all thesedata that are passing across between one another and hat mesthere's Ayi thatare being calghed and back and forth and on goes you better, be smarte abouthow you're consuming Iftis, but all these applications being looked upbecause the minute something goes down, everything can go down. The big pointon this is Eyes Wide Open. If you think that these technologies are simple andsum are simple, go load up, Excele on you and a suppose to be complicated.Have a plan know what you're getting and know why you're getting it anddelalinemen. On that? Absolutely absolutely. I mean quick, quick story,TAT te which Ow with you from Mi. I may experience recently and end base on theresponse. You just you just you just provided yeur. I went to a meeting. Itwas actually not too far away from where you live. I was I was in readgood city and I met with with a company O Great Company and our client now, butI was sure prize that probably they are so gon question to me. So Weu know E. Ilike to question people fell, so I went throughal my question to understandwhere they are at what they do, except Fer, Etca and open up to the questionand e. So Gon question to me was: what's your technogist tack and I waslike Oh we've got to take, we've got technologies, but we don't have a stuck.It's not just a I's, such as a stag that we use for every single client now,based on what you do. Based on what you need based on the type of prospect youwant to go off to base on the type of marketing you are doing with based onthe type of activity you want to do and based on what you want to achieve, wecan suggest a technogy state that will again, as you mentioned, the APA thingis very important. Sif Y at can Omo almost click within what you've gotalready someone that will just fit with it to find a it's like cogs. They needto walk together, stodges that we've got something fantastic crunning thereand you just put it at a as inside, and it just spitting prospects,olportunities ordeas you you have to, as you said, right, Bein, a reallyreally big advocate of that you need to have people being the machine. Youstill need to be able to quatify that that individual- and I guess to mypointto that I was making to them- is like you could have the best technologystack and you could have the best. Enoogy Youd still need at some point totouch you mentagh at the end, to do the further step in the qualification andbring that to the next steps. But I agree with you in the sense that and aspart of what you are you've been writing in your article, that there isa big drive and people want to consume. technogy seems that they want it'salmost like Bolimya. They want a lots...

...of technogy and adding technology means.That is better. I think the Clagym Min that you are doing a good stuff and yes,they are great ecnoogies, but technolgies should be teable to improvethe efficiency of individual. They should be there to provide moreintelligence from our perspective. They should be used wadly. So I definitelyshare your shoughts on the topic. Now wealways ask a question at Teino, feach of the podcast and it's about. How canwe get old of you? So some of our is Ano may want to engage with you eitherbecause Tyeu want to speak to someone at igital Pi or they may want todiscuss with you directly pack, your brain apper on some specific topic, andso what's the best way to get old of you them. So that's per easy for the company. Ourwebsite is disil, PICOM SPI, all one work and the same domain is my email,its just my first name so tom at tislittle, piecom and I'n. welcome any feedback or anyquestions ' to engage on this topic is near and dear to my art and I've reallyenjoyed speaking with you on this topic today. Well, it was great having youtoday and thank you very much for sharing or the all the stories, yourthoughts, your experience with us. I also had a great time, so I thank youvery much for your timetem. Absolutely upper adics has redefined the meaningof revenue generation for technology companies worldwide, while thetraditional concepts of building and managing insize sales teams in househas existed for many years, companies are struggling with the lack of focus,agility and scale required in today's fast and complex world of enterprisetechnology sales. Seeo operatics can help your company accelerate pipelineat operatics. Dot Net you've been listening to be to be revenueacceleration to ensure that you never miss an episode subscribe to the showin your favorite podcast player. Thank you so much for listening until nexttime.

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