B2B Revenue Acceleration
B2B Revenue Acceleration

Episode · 3 years ago

27: Short-Term Wins & Long-Term Brand-Building w/ Faye Hawkins

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Everyone knows the value marketing has on the sales cycle. Marketing puts forth an incredible amount of effort to warm clients and accounts. Sales members strive to close deals, often under immense pressure to meet quotas. When these two teams work together, it’s magic.

So this week, we’re listening to Faye Hawkins from First Base Unlimited. Their goal? To help you strategize and determine who your real buyers are, and understand how you can best access and serve the market. On this episode of the B2B Revenue Acceleration podcast, Faye delivers these answers and more.

Faye Hawkins has been defining the face of tech brands for almost 20 years, specializing in B2B software.

You were listening to bb revenue acceleration, a podcast dedicated to helping software executives stay on the cutting edge of salesand marketing in their industry. Let's get into the show. Hi, welcometo be. To be a reven new acceleration. My name is already endwith you and I'm here today with Faye all kinds from first base. Areyou doing faith? Yeah, good, thanks, very nice to see you. Thanks for having me on. No problem at all. So today wewill be talking about some top tips for first growth marketers. But before weget to start, he can you bleef, tell us a little bit more aboutyourself, as well as your company, First Base? Yeah, sure,so, so fast grade marketing is what we're all about. So perfectlyaligned to our specialist topic here. We work with technology, B spee companiesand we're an agency that helps them put all the right pieces in place,so taking them to market, helping their buyers to actually understand what it isthat they sell, what the value would be, getting them in front ofthe right target audiences, making sure that we get those buyers to know whatit is that we're trying to sell. We generate the leads. That's alwaysthe number one requirement for all of our clients. So demand generation is verymuch then the kind of tactic, and then really just helping the clients tounderstand how the buyers are behaving. So there's a huge component of digital marketingwhere we're looking for, you know, every touch point, every action,where our buyers are really getting in touch with us on various channels and I'mreally just helping kind of push them toward the sales conversation. In a nutshell, that's what we do. Excellent, that sounds that sounds very interesting andvery close to what we do. In a sense, we probably are thenext step after that. So that's we've got a good Ondo something of thevalue you can bring, and so we both work with BTB software organization andmulti. Our clients, as probably your clients, are growing at a veryfirst first space, with new technology consistently, or constantly, shall I say,coming to market. Then there guessing neurons of Investment Company leading needding toscale their business because they're under pressure from investors and needing, needing to doit in a very short time phrase in the first phase environment within market thatcan quickly adapt their approach to their clients into that company that companies needs.Your perspective, what are the skills and talents that you believe marketers in thefirst changing market need to add? Yeah, Oud question. I mean there's definitelya skills and expertise component to any any successful marketing program yeah, youpicked up just there that you know, we work in the kind of industrywhere it's hugely competitive and you know, whether you're a startup or an enterprise, business is still have quite a lot of ground to cover from a marketingpoint of view. The skills that you need the number one thing as muchas you need the kind of hands on expertise. Just need to be allover it. We need to have,...

...you know, the attitude where you'rereally looking for every single opportunity and learning really quickly. There's all sorts oftools out there these days, so the Martek Revolution is absolutely upon us.So every marketer is having to learn new things every day and we're learning knowwhat kind of new techniques we can put in place. We're having to getscripps with all the new kind of marketing automation platforms, different types of trackingsoftware. So technology is really having a huge impact on how we actually domarketing for software and beat be tech companies. So it's definitely a component of justneed to be quite resourceful. There's an answer for something everywhere, likehow do we do this? What's the best practice way of doing it?So it's definitely a kind of high paced environment and you need people that reallykind of have that go getting drive to like get stuff done and learn newthings and just make stuff happen, because in the end that's the thing thatmakes the difference. You know, we set out our strategy for all theclients we work with and you know, we have to adapt really quickly.That's the other thing that we don't know very often when we start with companies. I mean you'll have the same thing yourself you start with a startup company, because they may not have done marketing before. We can set out apaper based plan that makes really good sense, but we don't know until we actuallyget a market and how the buyers are going to behave, what sortof engagement we're going to get, what sort of response rates we should belooking for. So there's a lot of optimization and and, you know,kind of looking at what's in front of you and picking the best path andthat's a real skill. So good decision making short term and along the term, vision of all the things that are kind of needed to be successful.It's quite a long answer that. There's quite a lot to it. Iguess. Yeah, like it's but it doesn't make perfect sense because I thinkyou also tell you right. I think if you look at your organization,if you look at an organization like like operatics, we are tensions of ourclients, cells and marketing to respectively. Right. So ultimately we would havepeople coming to us because they want to accelerate reasult they want to accelerate theirroute to market, they want to accelerate pipe and generation Lee generation before that, but ultimately they want to accelerate their growth. And we see it very, very often, and it's not just with small startup company that you wouldexpect. You know, I've not really finalized the strategy. Also see itwith larger organizations, some very large public companies that we work with, whensometimes we've tart with a strategy, but to along the way, through analysisof results, through voice of the customers, through the feeling, through our experienceof working with other vendors, we also need to find you our protrayat least. Yeah, we need to and share, but practice is totry to influence clients. But you find it, you thinkled some things betweenfence clients. From the writing. That's a bit of a tricky question.Yeah, I know exactly what you mean and you know putting, when Iput myself in the client shoes, what they're looking for from us is adegree of certainty. They want to know...

...and ultimately it always comes down toour way. It's if I make this investment in marketing or demand generation,what will I get out? And it's sometimes very, very difficult for theagency or for any marketer to to give a concrete answer to that. AndI think you know a little bit of marketing does sometimes suffer from from thatkind of attitude of it's all very kind of fluffy and you know, wewe're not really kind of nailing our colors to the post on what we canachieve, but as an agency we try to get that predictability in place forclients where we can forecast and we can build a model, but the modelrequires data. We need to we need to do some marketing before we cantune it up, and that's where the responsiveness and the optimization comes in.You know, we have to know how many, what the download rate is, for instance, and how we're converting landing page visits to downloads to actuallyput a ratio in a percentage that says, okay, if we now increase thetraffic by this much, we'll get this many more downloads. Otherwise,you know, we're going to say, okay, let's do some marketing,we'll just hope for the rest. So it's sure that it's quite I mean, I do you understand? You know, absolutely. We have to understand itfrom the clients point of view as well, and it would help,though. I think, you know, they're looking for certainty. We canwe can give them a plan that has all the kind of you know,worked out strategy and loads of experience and best practice in there. We cangive them a target and say this is what we think we can achieve ifwe go ahead and do this, but we're going to have to actually,you know, adapt as we go and learn as we go, and that'ssomething that often yeah, I do think clients, you know, they don'tlike to have that conversation necessarily because it almost feels like, you know,we're not sure that it will work either, which there is a degree of becauseyou know, we don't know for sure if it will work unless wedo it. Absolutely now. Completely agree with you on the point you mentioneda war. That is we spoke consture, remember exactly in which podcast. Butyou mentioned flirty as an efective going after marketing and and I controquel exactlyand I think of that conversation actually came up a few times. But thereis almost called a fluffy marketing. Is More like the long term marketing,which is actually very important. Know the long term. What I would youbuild job bread, the after the short term, which is of the otherthing that you mentioned, such as, okay, let's generately now. Let'sget people coming onto the website less of to maize, that's have some compings, let's let's make it very simple for people to contact us and get intouch with us when the vain process. So I guess, man. Exquestion to you is any marketer needs to find a balance between show of windsand long down Brend building. I'll do that. Yeah, that is theultimate question from marketing. I'm so glad you're asked. And so it comesdown to it comes down to a couple of things and it also comes downto being prepared to stick at it. Is kind of the number one thingthat, you know, we've learned in our years of working with no tonsof different technology clients and the short term...

...requirement is often the justification for continuingto invest in marketing. So, for instance, you know we'll have aclient to say we've got a fixed budget and we want you to go aheadand put the marketing plan together. We'll do what we do and we'll comeback with here are the leads that we've generated for you. Off You goand you know, as you say, there might well be some kind ofoperatics involvement or some kind of lead development just to get them into them selvespipeline. But ultimately it's about it's about bombs on seats at that level andthat is the number one thing when lots of clients are looking to us asan agency. We have to deliver that. But the other thing that goes handin hand with it is what is the cost of that lead? Sothe cost per lead is more important, arguably, than how many leads havecan we generate, because you know, you can buy as much traffic asyou want. It's a question of how expensive should the traffic be for youto actually get the wheels to turn? From the marketing point of view,and this is where the longer term approach really can't starts to come into itsown, because even if you invest in the short term in brand, youhave this kind of juxtaposition where the better known the brand is, and particularlyfor kind of start up businesses, they have this equation that they have tofind a balance for where you know they're not necessarily very well known as abrand. They might have an amazing product. They know exactly who they're going togo and target. But if we go and knock on those doors,from a marketing perspective, maybe we use in mail, we might use sponsoredcontent, might use Google ads. We can get in front of those people, but their next question is, who are these guys and when will youknow? Will they be around in two years time? If I buy theirsoftware now, what sort of service contract can I really expect? And thatcomes down to brand and you know, ultimately, you know we we havea lot of discussions with kind of senior leaders and the people who sign checksfor marketing where you know we're looking at investing in the brand. They don'tsee that as a helpful thing from a balance sheet point of view, butit does mean that overall you'll get much better performance out of your marketing andyou will grow faster. It's just less tangible in the metrics. So that'sthe tricky thing. The other thing, though, we kind of proven witha couple of plants where we work with them, one kind of longer termrelationships. The Ideal Marketing Program is twenty four months in a plan. It'snot six months, it's not three months, not even twelve. And you know, over over twenty four months, you can put both a short termand a long term plan together and you can look to bring down the costper lead because investing in the brand means that you will generate more leads thatare organic or are cheaper to buy. So overall the Roy if you lookat it over a longer term period, that's a far better way of doingit rather than how many leads can I get over a short term period startingfrom zero? And that's always the complicated bit when we're they're trying to talkto clients, because it does take a leak of faith if you're just tryingto get started in a market, particularly if you're a kind of fast,great business and it yeah, it's a difficult, difficult conversation to having atough challenge. Absolutely, but I guess you saw some. My next question. Do you have what would be our top tips for the startups organization orthose technology companies to develop a successful marketing...

...strategy? And so you found uson the way with what you're saying. Is that really realize that on't needto long term plan, but really get the best of a marketing strategy whichyou should have is a twenty four months plan in which you have tactical shotup impact on pipeline as. Yeah, long of them, longer term strategythat will help you to put your brains forward, reasonates to your customers andyou timately accelerate the rhythm on your technical compings and to that extense, redio, shocker, spalt, that isn't the right summ things. That's exactly whatI'm saying. Brilliant. Thank you. Right, all, write that down. I'm listening. And but that leads me to it was our question aroundaround the lead, for we we think about the leads and and we wealways have different definition of fleets. Yeah, and I appreciate you know, Ithink you and I had conversation in the patterns what led to the podcastto day and in you know, knowing each other, which is how dowe bridge the gap between the work that you guys do and actually sells?Okay, yeah, because and I feel I feel for for individual like yourself, a feel for marketers, because we work very closely to sell team.We work with fantastic cells. Team also work we sells individuals that are probablya little bit more picky come of what they want. We also sometimes workwith teams that are a bit more tactical. So it could be a reseller,it could be a partner or it could be an insight cell steam whohave sometimes they expect the leads to be you know, if there is nota project in three months or if there is at a project in six months, this is not a good lead. Okay, which is great if youare in the commodity business, which is great if you like the very lowvalue, I. Volume, and you want to share and you don't havethe time to have the time to what. Basically, you don't have space forany additional custo cells to be put in because the average deal values tolook but how do you get that and shake done from a transfer of fleetsperspective, to make sure that you know, first of all, people are actuallywalking the lise that you are providing them? Yeah, and not justfrom walking the lands. Doesn't mean, okay, I'm gonna give them acall or send them any man if they don't respond to such a good lead. It must be done properly. But I'm interesting to Amos on know youdo that, because obviously I know that we are doing you and we're workingtogethering doing that for the same clients. But when we are not involve,what are the challenges that you see and what are the solution that you arebringing them? Of End of our process, to make sure that you know,most of the art work that you do is actually not only the perceivedas good, but also, yeah, done it into good. Because,yeah, okay, when you're marketer, the job of marketing is that toprobate qualified opportunities for me or lead. That is the CO unity string onsix months time, easy qualified opportunity.

So someone and should do that.Your job is to find that first touch, that first interest. So yeah,that's that's kind of my long wound. Yeah, question to you no,and again it's another really big topic and there's no one size fits allapproached here. There's all sorts of different factors to consider. But I absolutelyagree with you that the the role of marketing is to is to generate interestfrom buyers. We are not selling to people, we are helping the salespeopleunderstand who they should be talking to to then go ahead and sell to them. So I completely agree with you and I think there's a there's a lotof, I guess, kind of industry confused usion, frustration maybe about someof the terminology that's really been adopted in B Tob. So the MQL's aremark putting qualified lead had such a massive range of different interpretations and definitions acrossour client base, and with good reason in part. Sometimes it reflects thesales organization that exists inside the clients. So, for instance, you knowif you've got tons of BIZ DAD or lead development telemarketing inside sales team,for instance, you need more volume, you need less qualified leads, youjust need a lot of them. And so the definition of mql at thatpoint could literally just be a download. It's not very well qualified. Butthere's an expectation that's kind of set there between marketing and sales that quits.A high volume of them will be returned to marketing for nurture, and that'sfine as long as it's understood. But we also have the opposite end ofthe spectrum sometimes where, you know, we're marketing is expected to qualify theleads, but we want them now, and you know that it takes timeto qualify leads that come through in the same way because they will have,you know, come through from whatever the the kind of engagement is, butthat doesn't mean that they want to buy. So we we can we can lookat intent, we can understand, no, which channels and what sortof funnelvelocity in all these, you know, kind of ways of figuring out wholook like the highest priority that would convert to sale. But at thesame time it's still it's still requires a sales discussion, it still requires anappointment, it still requires the sales assessed and it's sometimes that line is quiteblurred about, you know, how far along the whole of the buyer journeyin marketing should actually continue to engage. It's always a good one for discussion. I mean what we do for quite a lot of clients is is tryingto nail that down from the start, because it's super important for marketing andsales to get off on the right foot. You know, we need to allunderstand exactly what we mean by lead, to your first point, and wetry to define what are the lead stages. Very, very often,you know, there's some kind of existing crm, so sales force or whateverit might be, that the sales folks are all used to using, andwe can work with that. We just need to understand what that intersection pointis between whenever we create a marketing lead, how does it actually populate? WhoDoes it go to? How do we actually put that kind of automationbit in place and complete the return path? So if it's not a lead,give it back, we'll have it back, thank you, or dosome lead nature. We'll see if we...

...can qualify them again and if not, then you know, what do you what we need to do on themarketing side. So there's definitely there's good kind of structure that can we canput in place to kind of set up, you know, what should that handover look like between marketing and sales? But again, you know, itneeds to fine tuning. We need to work out. You know whatcan marketing practically do and you know how to sales need to come to theparty to do the next bit if we're not able to qualify. It sohard from the marketing point of view, I think you know, as wediscussed only on because at the end of the COOPIG is fast growth marketers.I think, coming back to a point that you mentioned, what we seewith most of our clients is that we have to adapt. We have tochange this qualification. We've got to change the way we pass some too sleaves, we've got to change the way we communicate or we need to change thereporting. So you may start with a company and they say, you knowwhat, we want absolutely everything because we need to stick to people with toget out there, and then they get to a position where they actually havea amount of pipeline and then they can want of pressure to close the business. So yeah, probably let's interested by the lower level or less qualified leadsand then you may have an internal team coming in and then that internal teamwill just do the qualification and you know all it could be. Don't doputs to the channel. But the strategy always tend to change every six monthsfrom what we see. So I think. I think, coming back to thepoint that you mentioned earlier, that leading over process and that return.Look, I agree needs to be defend at the beginning and everybody needs toend shake sales, marketing and US professional services to players. But I thinkit's also very important to discuss about it on the quarterly Bas and just tomake sure that it's still fitting the needs and fitting the requalt from the managementof the clients. And to the point you mentioned earlier, it's about adapting, it's about adding people. It can do the analysis, listening to thesignals from the clients, understanding all the structure for clients and dose fast growingcompany are developing and, based on the way they develop, provide suggestion onhey, this is all we search and search when they were exactly understand samestage of growth as you, we would suggest, but entually putting that processingplace, and we actually end up doing a lot of that, helping alsoto get to the next stage. You know, do so almost like astaircase. You get to a certain level of provenue and then you need toget better and better and better and to go up you need to change andchange. It is difficult and I guess the good news for organization like yoursand ours is that we've been doing it with many clients, so we cancome up with a we can come up with that's wonderfully well, thanks forthat pain, I'm sure. I'm sorry. It was very useful for all audienceto listen to the tips and the information you shall and all the intelligencearound the way you perceive things. And now, if anyone wants to connectwith you or to learn more about your company, first base, what's thebest way to get in touch with you? Well, we always opened some conversationswith technology companies that be looking to...

...grow. So you know whether there'sthey were already doing marketing or you know right at the beginning and if thatjourney best way to get in touch is probably take a look at our websiteand have a look at some of the case studies that we've got on theirvarious different types of client at different types of marketing. The website address iswww dot it's hit first Basecom, hyt first and then be a ssaycom.You'll find quite a few different examples of kind of services that we offer.We do all sorts of different things for some clients, some clients. It'sfull service marketing where literally outsource all of it and we'll take care of hittingthe number. And for others, you know, we fill in around existingin house expertise. So you know, we can add, you know,certain bits of components of the whole marketing programs, whatever's needed really. So, yeah, I shall look forward to where, yeah, continuing conversations andsome of our share clients hopefully will have found a little collaboration here interesting toabsolutely what. That's great. Many things again, Fada was wonderfully too.Was wonderfully twelve younger. Thank you right, it's great, really good fun.Thanks for having me on. Thank you. operatics has redefined the meaningof revenue generation for technology companies worldwide. While the traditional concepts of building andmanaging inside sales teams inhouse has existed for many years, companies are struggling witha lack of focus, agility and scale required in today's fast and complex worldof enterprise technology sales. See How operatics can help your company accelerate pipeline atoperatics dotnet. You've been listening to BEDB revenue acceleration. To ensure that younever miss an episode, subscribe to the show in your favorite podcast player.Thank you so much for listening. Until next time,.

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