B2B Revenue Acceleration
B2B Revenue Acceleration

Episode · 2 years ago

31: 6 Lessons One Expert Learned From B2B Marketing w/ Jeremy Langley

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

“Success is not a terribly good teacher.”

At least that’s what Jeremy Langley says.

We don’t often sit back and reflect on our successes.

But do we take the chance to look at our mistakes and learn from them.

That’s why Jeremy recently wrote an article sharing the six biggest lessons he’s learned as a B2B marketer. He recently came on the B2B Revenue Acceleration podcast to talk about those mistakes, and how to avoid some of them.

Jeremy is currently the Portfolio Chief Marketing Officer at The Marketing Centre, where he works with small-mid size tech business, to help accelerate their growth through strategy development and marketing. He has 20 years of experience in SaaS technology, mainly in commercial leadership roles, ranging from Managing Director to Chief Commercial Officer to CMO.

Here’s what he had to say about common mistakes we make as B2B Marketers.

You Ere listening to be to B RevenueAcceleration, a podcast dedicated helping software executives stay on thecutting edge of sales and marketing in their industry. Let's get into the show, I welcome to be to be revenue.Acceleration Mynami is Oreyam with he and immer today with Jeremy Longley Potful, your chief marketing officer for the Marketing Center. How are you Jormy?I make slome. Thank you good. So today we will be talking about the sixlessons you've learned in Betuby market team, which is an articothat youpublish recently, but before we go into details, can you please tell us alittle bit more about yourself as well as the marketing center and your realwithin the organization sure so my background. I've spent the last twentyyears in assass technology, maily and commercial weleavieship roles and thoseare ranged from managing director roles, chief, commercial officer to CMO roles.So I don't come to marketing through a kind of classic marketing background.Although that's where I now focus my portfellure career, certainly where Ipent the majority of the last ten years. What I do now is I work with a numberof small midsizes, usually tech businesses to help them acceleratetheir growth, really through two things which is sort of strategy developmentand then the classic marketyrics. So my experience is mainly in scale. UPS,okay, TAT's, a time working to. We h build a business from startup to reveuehunbred million in Europe, mostly private equity focused, and what allthat means is that I see marketing from both sides. I've seen markting fromboth sides as a customer running a hungry sales organization and also as asupplier of marketing services, we're in an reoganization and having workd soclose, Lo Wi private equity for a long time or more so used to the demands ofI guess of Ha Data Hungry Audience. Yes, yes, and I think you've been A. I guessyour article is transpiring that that expirence and the fithat you youon Tostorms. What marketings mean from a CEO Perspective is here for Pespective Eadof sellios perspective, which is which...

...make it intaresting and a good rate,I'm so through your marketing journey. I'm sure you've had many lessons. Manysuccesses. Many mistakes that you've made and obviously the article that Yoyou wrote, was about the sixth lesson that you've learned in BTP marketing,as I'm sure that some of e audience they have not read that article. Wouldyou mind sharing wizards what other six lessons that you've learned in Bitofhemarketing sure and I won't go through them in any detail, but I'll give youthe kind of headlines of each of them, and I think for me I've always leadit.A success is not a tarribly good teacher right, so you don't tend totake the time to refent on your success where I certainly I know I will taketime to reflect on mistakes and absolutely so that's that's a why Ikind of think I have a wealth of them and I also think it's importantmarketing particular is a process of making mistakes and learning from whenanalytics perspective. So the six lessons are Misa Number One II'vearticulated this being asking your nonbargeting marketing Coss. Typically,your chief exacte define your rile and it's Maes been there yeah. We do. Itwere so grateful for the job, sometimes that when somebody says this is what Iexpect of you. We just ask how high and that's I think, that's where the thepolu starts. The state number two is taking every penty of budget. You canget so typically as a marketing director, you feel happier when wevegot a huge budget or when you have a media, more small budget, I'm not fure.That's always the right approach. The state number three is not bringing yourchief financial offircer on border youll finance director, whoever youkind of your financial peer is and somehow seeing them us be in the enemyestate. Number four, which I think we're going to talk about, which isnobody cares about your pas, but state number. Five is the kind of handing offto sales mentality that you see a lot in marketers who orient themselves.IMARILY RAN TON ON GEM IM, a six is marketing for the organization. Youthink you should have, and that's really one that's consistent for me,which is you know, you have t e great marketing ideas, you're doing someamazing things, you're so pleased with yourself about the quality of what youdo that. Actually you forget that your...

...channel to market is often through anorganization who might not be operating at the same level. You Do, and so yourmarketing effots will full flat and quyt. Often we like to blame our earsand our colleagues for that. But the reality is: That's always your foult,so those are the six mistekes. Okay, that's quite interesting! The way youlook at it again, you know. Coming back to the point of formulated the Arlier,I speak about the Seou, the expectation, the CF Cho Po people that tend to havean interesting relationship with marketing ecause. We tend to seemarketing professional as they tend to see professional in marketing as a custn liking to spend money. So, but if we want to look at Tho six lessons thatyou've Luarne a the six mistakes that you've made and that you you, youprobably believe people are easily making at the moment or will making thefipture which one for you is the most common one. I think it's probablymistake, number one, which is why I put it there, which is letting yournonmarket ambostor to find your role. I'm not sure it's the worst one, but Ithink that. Well, I don't think I believe quite strongly that thisperhapsises, the differente re marketing leadership and MarketingManagement Marketing leaders role- is extremely wide. But most marketingleaders are working for for chief exects, who are really driven ony byone thing, which is right. So you find yourself being pushed into the finingthe role just in terms of the stuff that can be strictly measure, which iste Mar Generation. And I think once you find yourself in that. That's your joband we can argue that, ultimately, that is a job of boxing marting Rett and,ultimately is an important word. But once you find yourself in that bucketof being soyo focused on demon generation, then it's very very hard toget out of that. So the number one advice I give when I mentor and Peoplewhare moving into markety direct as well, is spend time at the beginning ofyour role spend time when you meet a mutic Tiv in secutive telling them whatyou want. Oob. What you believe your job is h, be fully as you as Youa,absolutely ehoit, bcause T's. It's almost like challenging the managementand and some of the advisor to you put...

...in geatical about looking at kpas orlooking at objective in a different way. Thinking about Sustomar, etentionspeaking about increasing a Reggi value. Speaking about increasing conversionrate fur people, probably look at Yroug Lik your some sort of analion, becausethaiw is that market engageing a I can efers to increase congersion rate fromselvs, and I think I think that's a good way to go about it, because whenyou challenge usually that's when people start to listen to you andthat's why you can stop to drag you on destiny. So it's definitely intidefomHes, so coming back to Rasa number four and you are right. This is the one thatCud my attention when you mentioned that no one cares about you ave cue asa bit of a bull statement, but it would be great if you can just elibe rate alittle bit mon that point four Augence Yeah. I think we intuitively know thisas Marketas. We know that nobody cares, but I think there's a couple ofchallenges that make us overly focused on it. First of all, most seniormarketers know that for most of their customers, whether that be an investoror ti exact marketing is something of a dark art, and for that reason it's thesame reason that most chief exact, if you look at satisfaction, surveys ofmarketing leagers marketing leaders, often are at the bottom of chief EXECsatisfaction. Ratings yeah, so chee exacts have a fairly dim view of theirmopof organization and their Leaga, and we know that there are some differences.There are some really awesome. Tot EXECON, some fantastic marketers whoare lockstep together, but for most marketing is a sort of necessary evil.Now, if you add to that background, the fact that new marketing tools andchannels have opened up the possibility of really in depth, detail analeticsand a great virgrater level of transparency around marketing does andfor me, those two things to go come together to form what what you couldcall a desperate geek and what I mean by that is that we are so desperate toprove our value, and there are so many different analytics that we think wehope help us to prove that value that...

...we basically throw it all ono theboardroom table in an attempt to prove amat amazing. We are right. This is ourcontribution. So what I've seen time and time again is marketing leaders tooverwhelm you look at a typical board record with data on the entire pipeline you know, they've got website, starts laning, page performance, reventattendance, stats, tqlls, aqls, sq, lls and so on. Yeah, because we just wantto it's like I wit, I ft sort of like, like littl dogs asking for attentionand approval, and in my experience the mql sort of is the ultimaterepresentation of that futile efforts. Now, I'm not saying that marketingqualifiedl dance important, they are incredibly important a they reallyrepresent a critical stage of pipeline of pimeline development. We know thatthere there that Oy, that point of are you delivering the qualified potential opportunities. What,however, you defind the Mqr, but until you you know, my general view is untilyou are able to reliably demonstrate the correlation between your nql andbooked revenue, so that the MP number mpon number means something to aninvestr or a chief exact, or they can take an nql number and work out whatit's likely to me. I think you should just shut up about it and I would saythe same about a lot of marketing metric, so the function of an mkl is aas a predictive indicator of future sale. Success, that's what it does andif you aren't able to demonstrate a correlation or a causation, ideallybetween an MK well and house. Sales at least have part of Hou sales is goingto do within the next three six nine months. Depending on how long your salecyclist, then don't won bother absolutely so. So I guess the pointthat you are making it hat you can you? Can these guys themter? You don't needto speak about the INSU, but you need to speak about what happened after theentrall in the life cycle of the opportunity. So what are we talkingabout Ou we'e talking about meetings, we're talking about pipe line? Are wetalking about revenue? How do you get the attention because, as larketingperson, I think it's extremely difficult to speak about Revenu,because technically the revenue should be led by sad. There couldn't be anargument that O contribution into pipe...

...line, a certain percentage of the pipelane should come from marketing and all that. But before I develop on thatpoint, I'd like to get yourself in time of what you think fetenate or if youhade, to give advice to to Marpeting, Directord and listening to us. What doyou think crisen ad the most undervot table from your experience in term ofmetrixs to CAS? You still have to prove that Youre diivering, something for thebusiness right. You do so I'm going to swerve the question a little bit bysaying that I think that the answer to that question sits around the wardramtable. So when you take on a new when you take on a new Oll, my advice, isyou talk to your chief Execan? He board members as if that's relevant aboutwhat they think matters. Here's two things IWER suggestou dude. So firstwe'll talk to them about what matters and for a Yot of chief exects. It es meSinse Yeah, because no one likes to see a SALESTEAN. That is a Vusit. So maybeit's opportunities. Maybe it's pipeline growth, maybe it's meetings but buttalk to your chief Exac and find out what they think is the number that theyfeel most closely correlates future sales success and what Marketin doesand focus on that yeah. The second thing is, I think one of the thingsthat you could do if you are going to stay focused on mpls, is to educateyour fellow Boll members or execting members on what you think an expectedcorrelation between an MPL and close one revenue is yeah. Okay. So so, if weare doing well, this not much NK worll will deliver this much close onerevenue based on this benchmark formula. So there's a value, there's a valuethere for bench, Mark Data and abetchmark data, but I think ultimatelythe answer that question sits with HA chief executive. You know what numberdo you think most pos, CCLOSELO correlate. How do I take my pipelineanalytics and and get as close as I can to the number that matters? You alsosay it's something that I probably would challenge, which is you know theidea that ultimately marketing, because it goes back to sort of my handoffpoint- that the idea that marketing to Theveren qls and whether sale, succeedor not is sort of up to sales. That's as an assuption that I would challengeand because, at the end of the day, you...

...can't sit in front of a chief, exactand say well, I did my bit. I did my MPLS, but they didn't close yeah. Youare. You are just giving MOU a goodden bridge to my next question. So thankyou very much for that Jeremy. One of the des, a listen that that Hav I didlike Andre Reading about in a inteatical is about marketing kind ofthinking, O potentially thinking t that job is done when they end of lead somtels to the sensteam. Okay. So, to your point and to the challenge, why isit so important that marketing also cares about customer experience andwhat happened after in the seice process? I think all these things kindof fit together right. So, if you're working in an organization but sees therole of marketing in a very narrow sense, then you already have a problem,and I think, for me, the hand off is probably the symptom of ten thousandother things that are problematted. Firstly, tha the handoff question comesdown to what's the purpose of marketing yeah. Okay. For me, the purpose ofmarketing is to build the product the the customer wants to buy, and if weaccept that the product is the combination of the good or the serviceitself and the experience of buying it, the role of marketing us to ensure thatthe business in its entirity delivers what customers want in a way that theywant to buy it. And that means that the role of marketing is kind of systemicright. So you need to bring all of your knowledge about the customer, themarket, your product and your competitors and the customer experienceto produce something that business wants. So how o? Let's bring that backto the handoff. So a the handoff reinforces the idea that you only do avery narrow thing, which is you Generat, qualified opportunities that sallsthen't go and close. But that's not the purpose of margeting leadership. Thepart of the persona, Markin leadership is to understand the entire customerexperience the entire buying process all the way through. So the firstreason why I would say it's a bad idea to hand off ice because you're missinga golden opportunity to understand how your business does the customerexperience. The other reason, I think...

...that it's important that you don'tthink about handoffs is because quite often what I've seen Tis marketingleaders who think that their job is to fill the funnel at the top of the finalyeah, and that's often that's really hard. You know the hardest leaver todrive growth is with yow opportunities. One really good way of driving growthis through improving the conversion of opportunities that already in the farm.You know if you, if you are focused entirely just on this ide of EMT OLS,an an handoffs you're missing a massive opportunity for Gowth, which is abouthow are you optimizing the transit of opportunities through the entire Sunner?What's the conversion Ray Hower, sales equipped etc? So, for me, the hand offis a devisive way of thinking about it, and what that leads to is that kind ofconversation, every marketing leader and every SELESA GOS ever hair, whichis either sales people are rubbish and ar not closing my leads or marketing isdelivered on qualified opportunities that are not closable, fo thit. Thatmakes perfect sense. Can you shaw with a succes stories of companies ormarketing team T at that? Have done just that? And how do you go about itas well, because once it goes to the sell side of the business to keep aneye on things outdo you? What are the techniques or what is do? DirectorandOgy, you walk with Yo Sellstam to just keep ane on things and aw things areprogressing, so I think the first thing is that you need the sales director toknow that you're on their side yeah and you need to now. You need the salesdirector to know that you're never going to throw them under the bus andthat you part of your role is for Enshal that he or she is as wealthy andsuccessful as possible yeah. So my job is to make you successful yeah. The waythat I do, that is by understanding the entire sale cycle and looking foropportunities, that's called the marginal gaims throughout the entiresale cycle to optimize the conversion of the opportunity N. I do that byreally focusin on t a customer okay, so I think that's the first place. Youstart the second place you then you start is measurement yeah, so you haveyour analytics and the third place you actually do is to shot the experienceyourself. Yeah. That's why you follow...

...your an lead. Tro, you shot theexperience yourself and you understand what it's like and you continull.Looking for all those small gains through the funnel- and I think where Ithink wherehave, I seen that work really well, so I can't think of aparticular because I don't understand nicessariy whats behind the scenes inevery organization a and I presane that ipesiate. But what I do see is that thebrands that do really well are in be to be in particular, are those thatunderstand that their job isn't just to sell a product. It's to maitencustomers great at what they do yeah. So all the way through the sales cycle,you're doing two things: you're, making the process faster and fritendless andyou're, making the processas high value for your prospetsith prospects ispossible, so get on Bard, with sales use analytics that understand, th theconversion from sales stage to sale stage, shot the customer experienceyourself and look for ten housand tiny, marginal GAMS to optimize that customerthat customer German, okay, Wel thanks for Jeremy. I really appreciate Yo,clime and and insight on the onthe question that had for you today andgoing into the details of the Teaticalo Rote. So if any of oligence would liketo get in touch with you, connect with you speak to you meet with you, what'sthe best way to get toll, Lov, Jeremy, longly Lineon and I'm always happy totalk to fellow marketers. So my love to talk omautly, because you know we cancollaborate and aggregate all the mistakes we've made and hopefully makeless of them. If anyone does want to co contact me onlinting I'd love, it feel free to be so yeah. I would encourage anyone withlistening to us to find you on Lintan find that articolaty rote abot the sixperson that you've learning be to be marketing and really it's a good rate.Many things pence again, Jeremy was great to have on the show today. Thankyou. Rigt operadcs has redefined the meaning ofrevenue generation for technology companies worldwide, while thetraditional concepts of building and managing inside sales teams in househas existed for many years. Companies are struggling with the lack of focus,agility and scale required in today's...

...fast and complex world of enterprisetechnology sales. Seeow operatics can help your company accelerate pipelineat Operatics, dot net you've been listening to B, to b revenueacceleration to ensure that you never miss an episode subscribe to the showin your favorite podcast player. Thank you so much for listening until nexttime.

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