B2B Revenue Acceleration
B2B Revenue Acceleration

Episode · 2 years ago

34: 3 Common Misconceptions About Business Development w/ Dan Seabrook

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

“Isn’t it cheaper to build our own in-house sales development team?”

“How would an external, outsourced BDR mesh with our exiting, in-house marketing team?”

These are great questions, and Dan has the answers.

This episode we tackle misconceptions businesses have about external BDRs and SDRs. Also, we introduce our new co-host, Dan Seabrook.

Dan is the VP of Sales at Operatix, where he’s been for over 4 years, coaching and developing inside sales teams. He reports directly to the CEO (our co-host Aurelien Mottier.)

You're listening to be to B RevenueAcceleration, a podcast dedicated helping software executives stay on thecutting edge of sales and marketing in their industry. Let's get into the show hi welcome to be to be a revenewacceleration. My name is Olyan with Ye, and today I'd like to welcome a veryspecial guess of the show his name is Dancy Brook then I have been workingfor quite a long way is actually a VIP sells yeah, atoporatics and doingforward. It will become one of the cost of Bi to be revenue, acceleration,podcast. So welcome to the show, then I'm right yeah not really lookingforward to joining the show, and I think there's a lot of people that vemet over the years in a advenance cliens pass clients, hopefully someprospects as well that and should be able to offer a lot of Vanue to to theshow so you' looking forward to getting guy, and I think it's going to be achallenge as well. So looking forward to learning onof heiamabsolutely perfect, so you'vebeen with aporotics for nearly five years, nearly five years and before westart every single podcast, we ask th. The people were just com in as a guestto introduce a bit about themselves, but I guess what would be interestingfor audience today and as you becoming a couse makceos to he, to the bet O berevennew acceleration podcast. It would be great if you could share a littlebit of wrong. You know your journey at toparatics. While you started ow, youprogressed and I think your journy is particually interesting. So would youman jus sharing a little bit about your journey with us yeah? Absolutely so interms of going back sort of prior to operatic, youre correct, it'sinteresting in the context of working in the industry or in simply becauseI've coming from sporting background. So I played a lot of suport,particularly football or soccer to our ANARCA listeners up until aboutnineteen, and then I actually took the oportunity to go to university in NorthAmerica, so my carees taking me kind of full circle. Now what with? What wasthe involvement we have in the US, but m yeah in two thousand and fourteen? Ibelieve I joined oparatics and joined op practics in exactly the sameposition that everyone in the management team joins the company. So Ijoined right at the bottom, which is really anat that business development,sels develement type role, whereby my remate was to work on BOHARF FOM, myclient to support them to accelerate the volum ofselves engagements. Theywere happening with with their target and jusers working with many different,interesting companies, ranging from sidber security, tofraud to storage, tobig data, and then, after about a year, ther became opening in what was yourselvs team, of course, and yeah. I I moved across to the Salle team, soinitially I started doing exactly for the sale team, what we've been doingfor our clients, which was setting up meetings with potential prospectswithin target software companies, and they could have been more medium or thevery large enterprise software companies over the last few years, mycareer developed further, whereby moved into a fullfilled sales role, which isreally my responsibility to help operatics acquire grow and retainclients, and then, more recently, over the last fort of year and a half, Iguess, moving into, I guess, sort of a jewel role in that it's a salesmanagement, but also quote to Carryin Rock, where by owning the top line foracratics, but also carrying a quote to myself. So it's exciting in that Imeank. What I can offer to our client and listeners is experience going rightfrom the bottom Al Way through the business having done the job, ouselvesand obviously, as you'll know, that's as the methodology that we applie toeveryone that moves into a manageent position, a operatic yeah. Well, I'vegot to say it's a great journey. This is a sort of jolriette wil. Well haveto create, obviously a to pratice. I think you understood your possiniityand don a Fontesti sber the way through so but on the back to you. But here youare now. You know, on top of being a kind of achief revenue, offeter, thetop sells bell and the person responsible for the top line within thebusiness youre. Now the cost of the Bitto be Roven, you acceleration showso congratulation Thatwa, Forsa...

...promotion. I guess so. I guess let's get Drinkin the firstquestion, because I think I think there is a few things that I would like todiscuss with you today around the market. We are in some of themisconception in the market and the first one. I often hear somemisconceptions about sales development, business deveopment and the one that isprobably the most present at the moment when we engage ris prospector. Evenwhen we speak to clients is that outsourcing, your piplane devropmentprograms is actually more expensive than recruiting developing an internalteam. So obviously, in your road, you meet with tons of customels right tonsof prospects. You've got people from the day area to Telavi, going Trou,Paris, unique London. You've got prospects everywhere, so I'd like toget your souls and if you could share your thoughts on that totake of thecust of insourcing, theses out sourcing, and is it really cheaper to recetOantim yeah es you make good point. I think the first thing is is indeed thatgeographical fort of location, where, where you' be looking to build a teamfrom if, if I take it in a very sort of simple view, really a lot of ourclients are either building teams up in places like San Francisco and New York,O er London in a mit. Obviously, there's there's anomilies where by Thelbuildteam from other regions, but I think they tend to sen to be the mainkind of locations where they're built im from an and, as we will know, theBaar super expensive noon to live, but also to hire and to build teams there,both from a salary ANA and a real estate expected, and it's a verysimilar story in London. I think just as a interesting anecdote on that Ithin. Not only is it expensive, it's also really difficult to actuallyrecruit those resources, but I'll come on to that point in a second, I thinkone of the one of the the obvious pushbacks we get when we sit down witha climb. We build a business case, weth put together proposal. It's a bit of asimplistic view on the number. I think the the challenge we have to run intois that a client well look at the black and white numbers of what an oporaticsbusiness case could look like and just simply compare that to what the salaryof an internal resource would be and if you took it out, phase fanly like thatin Ha Bear in London. I would actually argue it probably wouldn't be would'tbe too dissimilar, but it could be slightly. It could look, look like amore cost effective option in hiring internally, but obviously, when youwort with AU gratics, you don't incur the cost of things like the cost ofseat, the management of the resources, the technology, the data and the four oone Ko or pension contributions and all the other benefits tyot go with hiringan employe internally and when you ad those cost on to a model the doporaticprovive will it starts to actually look more expensive, hiring internley versusvesss outsorcing. I mean said that we don't really ooratic and I think you'dagree with this. We don't really like to sell based on the tract Wir, cheapor more cost effective option, and we like to sort of get a feell for whatthey're trying to achieve it in their business and one of the first questionsI always a ask, is well what would that internal resource be? Do it and thinkoften what the feedback is well they'll be doing a lot of inbown responsemanagement for following up on Marksin, qualified leages and often the story tat that plays out is that they probably don't have enough internal. They don'thave enough marks in qualified leagues Ioul to justify one full time equipment,resource internity. So from from our perspective, Alporatic, we probablyexpect a fulltime resource to require around three to four hundred Marke inQualified League, depending on quality of the data to Kee them busy for twentyan average of twenty working days a month. Very often, if we're talkingabout a STARTU, for example, whenthey're entire theyre hiring thoseresource for the first time they don't have that bony. So therefore, what arethey going to be doing to keep that resource busy and and often then itstarts to become actually a from a cosperspective. You need Terofon fiveor the resource n wecn offor that that' frexibility. I think that'sparticularly right when it comes to people moving to Europe when you comeinto Europe and you may have. I don't know a little bit of thank uals inItaly. Te Amount in France, Farmotin...

Germany of Pharmontin. The UK basicallyonly have a budget for three atcount, so I think the beauty of being able tocut and dice nothing know a quat of orisor Spanish, Al Ooresours, GermanAlhof, a resource French, one full time, resource English and being able tomanage jus longages. Because thing change is very important. Sorry, I letyou carry on Nonde on on your tesort yeah, but I think that's o fir point.The other thing is around the productivity. So, yes you could youcould do the number. You can run some numbers INTURNIN and Wutl? Actually itI can still make it it chamed it because I could hire a rep straight outof school. For example, in the bear, or it London and they'd be pretty cheap t,then the challenge you have to run into what is her productivity or what's thetime for them to be productive from a prouctivity perspective. Often we seeif you pee, if you take Pulia in proactive, outbound approach toenterprise account, we often see that that our bent mark ocoratics, Isignificantly higher than th inpart Wat an internal resource would be, andthat's because in a business like such as Ouras we're coming from a cantagepoint where by we have a lot of clients- and we have best practices and Danterand the management structure in place allows over resources to be successful.Number one number two, the time to be productive is a e, is a really aninteresting point, because again it could look more cost effective on paper,but if that resource isn't delivering any result for the first three monthsbecause you're having to put together a playnbook you having to train them, youinto intogreate technology, you'R hoving, to go out and find day tilyou're having to hire a manager to manage at rip. Well, then they meanactually, it starts to look a little bit more expensive if you'rl gettingvalue from them three, six months down the line versus what you could have gotfrom a company like us, almost instantly simply again: YEA ECAUS. Wehave the best practices in play, so I think they're, two really importantpieces, which is around not only the ultimate productivity but thet time tobeing producted and then the other point just to make on that is hiringbased on strength. What I would say is that if you were to hia reace, if youwant to build a team purely based on doing inbound response management, I dobelieve that could potentially be not inawal cases, but using ageneralization. Her could potentially be more cost effectod than utilizingcompany like operatics, where we see that we often are augmenting aninternal team or replacing that that entire sort of proactive approach isdoing exactly that, going to the named account and yeah, that's oftem. Whereknow revenue is being generated because the SALS team can't necessarily controlwhere those Mq or definitely can't, control, where those nqos are comingfrom. The marting team can do a great job but they're still maybe not gettinginto thet real target cauch and that's where I think ou get on payper. Itcould look like a more cost, O fetch the option to have the team attorney.But if you can go to your proactive target count and be successful, go tothe sea level and penetrate those accounts and go and win the large dealswithin those those larger organizations name the Counte, but I think thatstarts to actually justify the pend, an increase, your returna investment. Sothat's sort of a few of the main points that we like to discover greet. I think,on the on the last point that you made, I it's a very good point. I think youcan't blame inside teams. Yeu Know when you've got a culture on following uponinbounds people tend to focus on thet product. They tend to focus about mememe my product and s enough, because you are talking to someone Wi. Just made aninquiry or Dno did something basically gave you a signal that they'reinterested by your product, Tas fantastics. Obviously, when you'reengage with them, they already kind of in the process of searching, because inthe prose of searching, they probably will want to have a bit more of atechnical conversation and they probably want to speak about productand that's fine. You know you can speak about product when someone come to you,they are looking to by your car. They will y already ask you question aboutokay. This is a sort of engine that I want. This is the sort of consumptionthat I want. This is the sort of size because has a side of my family orwhatever, so they woill have some creir and you would have to be a bit Mor pligriven. However, I agree with younter point at Wen. You, the account base,what type personery see when you do a...

...bit more of an account base approachand you try to practively, engage with house accounts. We see insideingstruggling because they've been school are going to use a very strong termyeuow, but you know it's. I think it's a reality, te being brain washed by theproduct team by ther, Yall, the people around them and, of course everybody inTheit, companys, stelding them. OTHEU solutions are fantastic because that',that's the right thing to do, but they are sometimes a little bit to brainwatch bout, the product and they forget to put the prospect in the center ofthe conversation. So, instead of speaking about the issues that you arefacing as a prospect and making hypothesis of the pain points thatYoure suffering from in trying to fit you thar case within Yousto, now youthat makes sense with your industry, etceet, Cettre, etc. They tend to gostraight into the product and from my conversation with selevel people couldbe in Frastructure Yo. Could DECA MOSE COUL BCSO e? Could Er? U S? If Fas allthe you ow Om the thintic pospectorrific, those guys are fed upwith people telling them about product what they want. They want someone.We've got the decendency to actually do their research, engage with them andtell them well, I've done a bit of research, because I respect you as aprospet. I know that we have one shot with Yo only that'. One Short: This iswhat I've I think I on Tosooshor context. This is wher. I think we canhelp you. This is ow. We Va Companies Latherin the past, and this is thevalue of that first engagement with us, and I think it's extremely difficultfor intenvel Ting to do so because they may not have access with theintelligence they magnotav access to the contact, a D and also ou need tohave a certain level of confidence to do so. Now, when I ground that point,I've got another question for you, which is more on the short page ofskills, and I would like to get your thoughts on that in the UK. We'respeaking about something called Brexit t e, fantastic political thingsappening, I don't know if we'll go to ever SI the end of it, but it'shappening at the momen now we know that this. This will mean that there will beless resources, Pobaly, less native resources from France, Germany, Italy,pain and all that coming into the UKA okay coming to London, but we also knowthat most of our clients, afe operation, centers, O orthe Edoffice in the UK. Atthe same time for look at the US, you mentioned San Francisco, so the Baariageneral you mentioned New York, which I think is Yo bitrol lsh person, ans, Ogreat great great places and- and I know, and I'm being told that theunemployment s anemployment right. So basically the the rate of people wo,don't have a job is really low. We talking about a person to even sometimeless than a person, and that's got to make it very difficult when you've gotanother two hundred three hundred competitors right that actually tryingto do the same thing as you and trying to re crith VIDEA. So I would like toAscou: What's the sort of posection whats the thing back, that you get fromyour prospect and clients regarding skill, stratage and regarding beingable to scale quickly yeah? So I think that's a really important point. Sorecently, we've brought on a couple of clients, Ha said exactly that. I thinkthis this whole discussion we've just been having around the investment andcomparing that, U of hiring Antorney versus externally yeah. That's that'sone! That's one! JUS! That's one sort of threat of discussion, the otherthreat for me that I'm having more and more now is well. Actually. Yes, wecould have a discussion around price, but, quite frankly, we don't care aboutthe price. We just can't find the resources in the bay area or Wel. Let'suse a Baera for the for the senfor for this example. So a couple of theclients have recently cone Tros and said that we want to ACTU. We wouldlike to build our internal team from a strategic point of view, we'd like tohave the team internent but they're, just not in in the region. Interestinganit go ahad from someone wos, well a lot of the younger guys that are goinginto and Gira going into colleges, universities. They want to go an. Theyknow that its money in the software industry. They want to go and docomputer science degrees and they want to go, come out and go into technicalrolts and actually they're, saying that there's less and less people tharegoing into sales a markeing roles as theyr at a leaving to school. Sotherefore, obviously SDR or Vdo roll...

...being an entry level job, there's lessand less individuals out there and now not only that your point, theres,there's lots of jobs D and not enough people to fill those jobs, and I thinkthe other challenge that companies are having is a retention problem in placeto like the bay area, because I had a conversation with a recruiter, RISADurig conference a couple weeks ago, and they were telling me they aretelling people that they're speaking to or candidates their speaking to nevermove lattery. So in other word, if you've got an SBR and they go o go tother manager after three months and say I want a ten grand payrids, probablythe managers not going to give it to them. You guess what they'll go downthe root road Nol, get ing at they'll, probably get a Fifteenk payride andthoyll get an stor manager role and then, in six months time, they'll goand get an inside stals manager, Rolwer carring, where they may be carryingquotal managing Qoto, carring Ta as well. So the rate of progression, Ibelieve, is really fast. I believe it's really tough to retain staff, but Ithink it's actually difficult to even attrack stuff, so wat. What weareseeing more now as well is that companies may it be headquartered in ina focal point like the Bay Ora or like New York or light London, then they mayhave different operations centers for their inside Salles function. So, forexample, a couple of companies that are recently spoken to Theyr, buildingteamd in Osten or they're building teams in Chicago, because theyre thernear good universities, the cost of employment is lower. The amount ofcompetition is lower there for the staff. Attention is higher and I thinkthat's obviously something that we're seeing is Worl being based in Dallas orand actually just a fraction outside of London. We can attract stuff and we canretain the right colober of stuff as well, but I do believe that's reallybecoming a challenge in places like the Bayr. That makes perfect sense. Soaowso misconception that I often come across is the lack of alignment of theBIDIA team with the sells barketing team, so basically getting that glueand that bider function being an extension of marketing, then fitting upthe SAL team, and it seems that people seems to be our prospect seems to bequite constant when it comes to using an external agency, a kind of thinking.Well, if we've got everybody internally, we believe that that blue will glue. Ifwe've got people external, we believe that Youl have, it will have anissue ingetting people working as an extension of each other. What are your thoughtson that? I personally think it hat sel comes back to the sals process.Initially, I think something that we really try and do within the within thesella process is in sure that we're speaking to both sides of the business,so me personally, oule never sail to a VP sale. Having never spoken to the VBmarketing, because a lot of the time it coming from the marketing budget,likewive I've seen large program a as in the part where we've only stole tomarketing and marketing have a maybe a pipeline generation goal or SOEsengagement goal, and they want to meet it, but they actually haven't told thesales team that they're going to put this initiative in place and guess whatthe the relationship between Outeam the sals team is broken from day one. Sothat's the first thing I think it's Rey important to sell to both both thesales and marketing. The second piece of that for me, is when we do sell tothose individuals. It is not about trying to put together or forcetogether force Posol down their throat. I should say it's not about Ju t tryingto put together and off the shelf proposal, Rostag really about beingintegrated into their objectives, to, I think its really important for us tounderstand what are they trying to achieve this year or this quarteor?This second half of the year is whether that's from a Remenu perspective, wherethat's from a pate line of objective or Twhenhe, that's trying to push into anew region. We need to work back from an objective of the company in order tohave a program in place. That's actually impacting r their business.You know, I think, if you went to a kind of bosx stand up telemarketingcompany and you sold them a hundred hours of work or you Tov em, a hundredmeeting. Well, what's that really means O weither the sales and MarketingDepartment? If it's not integratede into the objectives, that's o! That'sthe fast thing, so I think come back to the SEL process. The other thing oncewe wonc we get into work with those organizations, is from day one I thanit has to be absolute clarity on what...

...success is and when I talk aboutsuccessis Wel, what's the qualification for a sales in dig, what's the expectedoffe conversion rate o opportunity, what is an opportunity and all thosedifferent things ethor we're absolutely crystal clear on what success lookslike and we're both going in the right direction. The other obvious thing isis communication. I think, as thers two forms of communication, really, I think,there's the formal cadence, which is weekly monthly, quarterly businessreviews and then there's the inform cadence, which is the relationshipbetween arting and the sales team in general, and as an additional point onthat, I think it's really important that we have something called Te FeedThatlop, which is if a meeting has taken place or if a conversation'staken place or if we've received an objection from prospect or whatever theconversation may be really important- that we feed back to a plient sellommarking team tha the voice of the customers of what we're hearing in themarket. Likewise, while they're hearing back from prospects that they've beenengaged with bioporatic, so the we can track the conversion rates and we cantrack what's good and what's bad from kind of Anidota, espective oltically.If you put all those things in place, I think you're kind of integrated intotheir sells and Martin tid now in terms of actually bridging the gap. Ertween,the Salles and marketing teams. A lot of the time we're fulfilling part ofaccount base markting that could ay that they waa hundred named accountsand those named accounts have been selected by the sales team, but theSalestam of set to the markting team. We need your initiative to go andpenetrate ou to couch for us and will fortel a part of that, thereby themarketing team may be doing avents and webenars various content, emailcampaign and we're fulfilling a part of that which is actually a coactive pieceof finding the contact engaging with the contaxt and creating the demand,and obviously, if you're integrated into that, then and it's and it's partof the sales teams target account. Well, it kind of naturally marrirs the twofunctions together. So I think it's a tere's, a few different elements, Harthat that's importananme to OA FAC Doson, the objective of the encheck, soeverybody takes responsibility in the process and then start derivering thingfrom Ma pofecy. When we start the company is also nolending. Some of thepoty results at the beginning of a compant. You can own the respect frompose cersin marketing team and then I think it's about writing honesty in arelationship. You know, unfortunately, Oren the business of businessdevelopment, which is a tough Business Sesen, not an easy one, particularlywhen you do it practively, it's tough. You know, I think everybody willrookamaze that and you can't just get it perfect or the time. So it's aboutbeing able to have a line of communication able to Celi rigt whenit's Te. I've got one less question, for you know we're running a reatle bitof time out of time with kind of leg interactions which is going to go onefor a little bit longer today. The last Mak misconception at a really sometimesreally Bil me in and particuarly want to stick to marketing people. So we'vegot ofvious. I've got a few of marketing clients, Marketing Friendswolking in the industry, and sometimes they get frustrated because they feelthat the value out of the ite sense of the value of theiscel is not realizedby the inside selesty. So let me rephrase that basically, they gave abunch of marketing qualified leads or leads to the cells team and they don'tget any feedback any ritten on Tho Sid. Apart from the feather the lives, arenot good enough. What's your opinion on that Wel? What's your ritorn onexpirience regarding inbound leads and the way they should be menaged the waythey should be trated by insitives to, I think it's an interesting point. Fr Mfrom my perspective, marketings Responsibilitie shouldn't be to deliverthe perfect lead. It should be to identify or create some sort ofengagement with a targe con or a target pisode and wet. That said, with what wesee is probably in a maximum of thirty percent of a time- and I maybe beinggenerous ther as well, that the person that's making the inquiry or is theMontin qualified lead, is at the right level within the right target account.So I mean to use one of your analogies. You've often ou, always his hat. If,for example, if we wanted to buy a new...

...desk which, hopefully, with some ofthese new clients, come into and wwell need to, if we wanted to buy a newdeath for operatics, I don't think you and your always are syo going to go andlook onlinefor for desks, you're, probably going Ito Osrkstar officemanager. When you made some inquiries the person at he, the furniture companyis probably going to get very excited because there's a sells inquiry, butthe reality is they're dealing with the person. That's not actually going tohave the authority just to purchase solution or the furniture inocenstancs,so that person will then have to go back to the r their manager. Being youshare the cost go back again and go shake. Come back to you again andOltiably what that means is you're not really dealing with the right person.That's going to create a very long sale cycle, so R's there's a couple ofthings that we do to try and get around that. The first thing is: It isimportant to service that imbounly that in about inquiry, because from acustomer experience perspective, but also there could be some extremelyvaluable information to be gained from someone at a lower level in a business.So you may want to engage with that analyst. Was it JP, Morgan and JakinMorgan is a target account for that analyst? Isn't a target son! You maywant to pick up some information for that person. Then the next step isactually do really do turn that inbound engagement into a into a proactiveapproach which is right well, we know there's some interest from JP Morgan,who are the other five R to ten people within that business that we would wantto engage with typically and actually turn at into a proactor approach, morean account based prospective approach and go and engage with it. Thoseindividual wit the context that you picked up from the lower level,individual, individual and iaticulate their Valu, your vany propite prosition,created demand. I think that's kind of the really important takeaway frommarketing qualified leaders that they're not going to be perfect Er. Youhave to use somebody into Intel that you're picking up from that thatinquiry to turn it into a proactive approach, and actually, I don't thinkenough of the inside sals teams we see, are doing and they just want to burn,though a number of contacts and hope they find a diamond in therough willactually there's Therre, probably a lot of in there. If you turn into Approcto,I guess I guess it's a relative, but my take on that is the higer. You Aveready deal value the more you should force yourself in train to join theduts between a very overage inquiry. Thes US wars going on Ito, the account,sometimes what we sin is actually with one customer tha want mentioned. Werealized that fifteen different inquiries from the seme account, butfrom different location and basically because theinquiries were on paper.Quite frankly, not the right guy to to junior probabe, not the right person.Most of them were not followed up, but no one actually joined the DOT. No onelooked at them because you had one team deaning with that Aria, an Wasotamdeaning with thatsarea. So so maybe it was more of a marketing operation,seris operation management issue, but when the doit aut join- and you realizethat you know you've got fifteen people ovr. The last couple of monetor beentaking contents living at contents and all looking at the same thing. You canuse crate, toeslexels, navigate or Mog them as thed. You get some Moseofsugitiona very quickly. You've got that nobolitic of all the people in thefootshade and when you get all those people in the footshain what you can doand what you should do. If, particularly if you have reage geniverYeu is, I don't know, doth of fifty iy hundred k dollars where you can investa little bit in your cest of Cersin. You should haver practice, BideaFUNCTIONA, more prictiviusa function, it's to actually practially, engagewith this contact and just go and talk to them and say look with sinlots ofactivity from some of your colleagues Wut believer, but we just tryingtounerson what's going on, but was importantly, if you in that approach,you can almost get very soft approach of saying. Well, there is lots ofinformation o Valy whateverwhere. What exactly are you looking after? So wecan. I can boil it down and give it to you right so in a nice way, you're,basically helping them to find information as Youare doing so you'reso quatifying them. But I unfortunately I don't see that happening, oftenenough, breats, that that's it that's a a little frustration that hi will tip,and hopefully we saw that issue. We are to project four clients. Then we getinto the end of the PODCEST, a shame...

...because I probably have another twentythirty questions we could have. We could have discussed in length, but Ireally appreciate your time and insight on the question I hadd for you to ther.Think you couple of Wor storye that you shared up, you know close to my heart,so I've really really appreciate that as well. I think eligence will bedelayted Toer, you N of Shudship Yo. Third, as Ta cost of the show, throughyour experience, Wot the people that I know in your network. I think you'regointo also bring some fantastic guests to do show so that that's going to getmore exciting for UGIENCE and we'll be able to produce a little bit moreepisodes, which is which is also great but efore. We finish. Could you pleaseliave us the best way to contact you the best way to engage with you if anyof our listener? Well to want to take that conversation offlying with you and discuss any of the topic with discussing moditars with youyeah, I guess probably the best two places would be the first one bi myemail address, which is Daniel Dot, Sebrook opratic stot net, or thealternative would be to find me on Lintin, which is which is Dan Severook,so yeah, I'm looking forward to it. I think been a good conversation lookingforward to having more of these discussions with h some future guests,but if you want to get in touch ththeyre the best to means ofcommunication, that's great well many things once again, then reallyappreciate your teme. It's great to have yon the show and very much lookingforward to you being the couse and making some great stuff and tearing ona journey with us. The podcast, an very much operatics has redefined the meaning ofrevenue generation for technology companies worldwide, while thetraditional concepts of building and managing inside sales teams in househas existed for many years, companies are struggling with the lack of focus,agility and scale required in today's fast and complex world of enterprisetechnology sales see how operatics can help your company accelerate pipelineat operatics, dot net you've been listening to be to be revenueacceleration to ensure that you never miss an episodsubscribe to the show inyour favorite podcast player. Thank you so much for listening until next time.

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