B2B Revenue Acceleration
B2B Revenue Acceleration

Episode · 2 years ago

35: How & When to Scale Marketing Operations w/ Brendan Kavaney

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Time to scale your marketing operations? That’s a good place to be — it likely means your business or industry is growing. Still, scaling marketing operations can be challenging.

On this episode of B2B Revenue Acceleration, we asked Brendan Kavaney to join us for this discussion. We plugged him with questions about martech, data, internal expertise, and service marketing, and he did not disappoint.

Brendan is the Global Head of Field Marketing and Demand Generation at Mindtree, an IT services company with 20k employees and $1B run rate.

You're listening to be to be revenue,acceleration, podcast, dedicated helping software executives stay on thecutting edge of sales and marketing in their industry. Let's get into the show, I welcome to be to be r of a newacceleration. My name is ovenion with Y, and I'm here today with Brandan Kevenyfrom Mintree. How are you today Brandon I'm doing well, thanks for having me onyour show, that's an absolute Pisur. So today we will be talking about when andOu to scale marketing operations quite white to pick. But before we get intothe details, can you please introduce yourself your role at Myintry, as wellas what main treat does as an organization? Yeah sure, thanks I'llstart with Mintry as a company where, in Ik Services, company run rate isabout a billion dollars. Wehave twenty thousand people which compared to somecompanies, would seem very big, but relatives to our industry were mid sizebut growing very fast. We grew twenty percent last year. I will emphasizethat it's a services company so we're Gen Seltan. We do to kind of majorparts of consulting both Ots, completely related IC. What we call therunning grow side of the business, so the runs ide of the business are allthe backend systems that are really run for efficiency. You know so likeaccounting and maybe supply chain, or some other things that are kind ofalways on and they're they're, really about optimizing and being efficientand then the other half, which is where the huges biggest wave of investmentyou've seen over the last couple of years, is what we call digital, whichare like customer facing APPs. You know this is where you see API tools, thingsin the cloud that are like need to be super fast change, real time, tanke,SFACEBOOK, Amaton and all that stuff. Now me, I run the field marketing team,which is the team that works with the different business enits. We have forsuper very large business units that are based on industries, so we havepeople who wrote and their job is to honestly really be a mini cml for eachof the business units of my company and then also along with that our demandenengine or marketing technology stack. I...

...really a sort of the person who putthat in and and built that out for for my company, which is a really excitinggreat thing to do. Actually: okay, the PRIENDHEN NE. You mentioned somethingquite interesting: You made the dissociation between marketing servicesor marketing. You know, selvice marketing shall I say, and productmarketing, so we ale serve hics company as well. So I think we kind of FundDoston the dissociation pretty well, but could you please comment on whatyou believe the differences are between Sarvice marketing and product mocketingpace? I really like that question and the reason I like that question isbecause I think one thing that we talk about- and we I mean marketingprofessionals talking to each other often is BTB versus BTC yeah, and thatis a very clearly t. there's differentiations right, the buyers aredifferent. All these things, however, in my case t, the real difference I seeis like product versus services. So you know parallel industry to mine or theecosystem of the industry. I work in is like software, so like the softwarecompanies, the markets and software companies they're the ones who arereally you know, sort of like driving the conversation about account, basemarketing, for example, and these other things, and when I look at the ServicesCompany so account base marketing a perfect example: We've never deoneanything but account base marketing. I mean we didn't call it accounpassmarketing, but that's the only kind of marketing we ever did now. The reasonis pretty simple: My company is billion dollar run rate. We have three hundredand fifty customers, so you know, doesn't take supermath to figure outthat each customers, a really big customer or we try to get a customer,make hem a really big customer. Now, that's sanges. Shame is the nature ofmarketing, because we're not you know, looking to find you know, look at amillion people and who are the thousand best that will love our service, we'reactually looking at a couple hundred customers or accounts and trying tocreate awareness and opportunities in those CCOUNTS and figure out when theyenter yeah. Another thing that you mention in your introdiction is: is theworld consurtant and comsitative? You...

...believe you need to be moreconsurltative from a cales and marketing approach, Hich, which I thinkare linked, because you know it's about the message and Oh you, you trat andengage with your with your prospect or with your client, but coming back tothe question, do you believe you need to be more consultative when you aredoing service marketing Tel Tis product bucketing in your approach? DefinitelyYeah! Absolutely we run training programs in around consultitativeselling. We spend a lot of time on sales enablement. This has happenedthrough my career, not just in my current company, but all the companiesin this industry that I've worked for, which is there's three of them, and thereal goal is to become a partner with your customer and discover andarticulate problems together and try to build solutions. So you know ourbusiness is a business of fighting ourps, honestly and and what is a? Whatis really an RFP? It's an attent. It's not actually a define thing. It's anattempt to define a solution to a problem that may be clearly defined ornot, and so, when you think about it in those terms, every RSC is a little bitdifferent, and this this also will make you think about scale, becauseultimately, at the end of the pipe is an RFC not at the end, but whatever itlike in getting you know getting more business you're. Actually you know youget to the point of having an RPR or having a deal and if every single oneof those deals are different, you you know the way in which you scales verydifferent than you know, piece of software. That does something you candefine exactly what that software does and you're. Basically, trying to youknow, push out a story around that particular people. We can be morecreative, I guess in Ne Wey, but I do agree on Bos point I think, beingconstrutative and Ivhing is absolutely key to have an icon. Basa Poch alsobelieve that when you do servicees, I think that feeling of a communitycreating a community or on your brain people using your services. You knowtalking about how flexible you are Ou tenow lot to things is also veryimportant now if we dig a little bit...

...more into the Dactual Totik of theconversation today, marketing operation is a key function within anyorganization as it touches data operate, the morthix stack, consotlidate thenumbers and optimizes the strategy of a company, because it gives you obviouslyall do the Geli takes the details to be able to make decision and move forward.So as a COMPA as companies grow, they need to add t up that teamand.Obviously that text tack to scale and follow that growth. So how can youidontify what its to right time for your marketing operation team to startthat scaling a process and o'? Do you do it? So I think that one of thethings to think about we do this in our budgeting process and our approachts, Imean bankers and investors would do this all the time it's sort of anpordfolio model, and this is really you know, I'm thinking about more tha ArTex tacer marging technology. Seck is that you know you have the things thatyou know. You'll need to do like marketing on the mation. You know so toyour big. You know your Marquetto or your lq or whatever, and we definitelydo it my cost in our budget, and then we also try to think about it in termsof like the effort around the components to the stack that we'regoing to how we're going to spend the money. So if the AR spending money onthe time so the things we know we can scale like emailing advertising eventsor something will, you know, spend the book in the money and then we'll havelike some percentage of our budget and our time to do things that are a littlemore experimental and then well spend some time and money on things that arereally kind of a long shot. We don't really know if they're going to workhere honestly and we do that every year and in fact, my cmo and he's presemptsabout this publicly. He talks about hiring and firing your stack and that'sreally the approach we take. So you know w every year dish because all thecontracts don't line up perfectly. We do look at every piece. We have an ourstack and decide like hey. Are we even going NA? You know we try this? Did itwork, idn work, the other things to think about is really in this in thebuying the technology. A lot of...

...technology tools are there to optimizeprocess and and there's so many I mean, I think, if you, if you go to theMARTEC conference- and you see that slide, it's kind of famous, what hasall the logos of all t e like market technology things, so many tools arereally to optimize some tiny thing and the thing you have to ask yourself as acustomer or someone who's buying. Those tools is: Is this process running atscale where we need to spend time to really tweak it like we're, not evenrunning at scale? So if the ENGINESA not running, don't like buy a piece tostry to tweek and optimize it abslutely, okay, and but what do you start? Whatcould be the STARTO ICASE? You think you need marketing automation from theyane ISSIM, to be like a given from your pospectible. What other? What are theking warts of a technoogist tacket? And I don't liase? That's your type oforganization, but we do appen to walk with lots of startups I'll you evenstat the Journy, because we spoke about jybmusation moving but wis there like astarting point for for everyone that you would would recommend yeah so forespecially in services where it's very, like you mentioned, consultitative,it's relationship, driven sales, drimen kind of environment. I think crm andmarketing automation are like the the key like places to start and bymarketing automation. I mean the the systems. We all know the PARTOFS, thebig kind of sigaticated emailing systems in a small. You know we'repretty big right, so we just like put it in we just we. You know we had onein. We had a markit automation, SISM. We ripped it out. We put a new one in,but if you you know, if you're small and you're growing, you coulddefinitely start with like a a simpler sort of mailing system, a male Chin orconstant contact or something thats like doesn't cost you a lot of moneyand then, if you're, getting to the point where you're like wow, you knowwe're setting a lot of emails, we're doing a lot of Nalysis and what happensthen. You start thinking about the next step like mid. We need more tools, youknow so don't over by the other thing to think about which, which is you knowwith with some self research you cancom figure it out, but depending on whatyou buy, you know who? What is your...

...internal team structure and what istheir ability to kind of run the tools and what kind of talent you need inhouse, because you'll find that some tools, you might end up spending moreon consulting to run the tools and you're spinding out ha tool yourself.It'sself that' makes Nouh exsense youeed to make sure it youve good s,yeel good, the engie. You will need to have the pitchfol to put inso that thattakes that makes posex Ted Right. One of the biggest challenge t that wesee an particularly when we on gage, with macketing operations, teams- Wer,we, you know our clients or Prospectat the beginning of a program Orol thecourse of a program. I guess it's the challenge of absolutely everyone is tokeep the tate dayis up to date and elthing clan. You know increasingresponse rate Orl that sort of great stuff o you have an. If you do, can youshare any twicks to keep yourother Tabase clinse and updated, so we yeah,I think, h. You are right that keeping your data and order is super important.I mean it's paramount importance actually and it's very easy to let itgo it's easy to. You know it. We know yeure and year it's cheaper and cheaperto keep a bunch of TATA. I mean it almost cost nothing I mean in myindustry when I started twelve years ago I mean we couldn't even have thesedatabases. They were prohibitively expensive and now you can have a startup of four people and spend a thousand bucks a month and have a huge to Martextack that you can scale really quickly. But I think a governent structure isimportant. You Need Stak holders in the company who find it important and theyhave to spread across the org. It can't be an enthusiastic dataminded personWHO's. You know deep down in the ORG. Only that person could be superimportant, obviously, but you need people at different levels and then inthe consumption of the data internally, you need you need to make sure it'sconsumable in the way that's relevant, so the sales team they want to knowpipeline. I'll. Give you a really simple example: we had a like amarketer and they're doing a program...

...and stuff and they sent a report, andthe report came internally like a refort of some email thing and thesales team started asking about open rates and Qlick rats an only six, andso what we talked about internally. Is that hey look that sales team? Theyhave a target list of Accoun like a hundred accounts. They care aboutengagement from those accounts. So when you report to them, you give themengagement. These are the people from these accounts that open clicks,downloaded papers, attended events, that's super important to them, therest of it. I it's important to us as marketers because of want to benefficient, but for them it's not it's not that part. We don'te really don'twant them to be concerned with it honestly, and I think that parts reallyimportant, but I think to answer question about keeping the dayto clean.I think it comes down to governance and the commitment to governance and reallydeciding like okay. You know every quarter every year, whatever we'regoing to do this, we're going to clean this, we're going to delete that and-and essentially you know, buying in and sticking to that model, otherwise,otherwise, the think just kind of proliperate. I it I it almost like anopporchais okay. This is my. This is my calenda for my compans over the nextsix months, so Willi get such an Sagogaticall in such and such territory,and I will aget such and Serch Pelso. Now, within that vasical reason, theterritory with this missages would you Sayyou've got that sort of he sequence of the sequence, but thefrequency at which you will be cleansing, the data is it it almostbase on the Compang that you are got to run, or would you say now it's okay,once a year or twice a year, you just review absolutely everything and cleanseverything in the other tobase. So for us it's a little more of the latder.Now the reason is- and this comes down to the service. So if I you know theservices versus product marketing that we talked about earlier, there's a fewcomponents to that and one of the components and this, if you would talkto say our media partner, one of the vendors I worked with they would. Thisis like the broken record. Frendon kind of thing is that I'm like I want you toget in your head, an our target list. I...

...static it doesn't change it's a hundredthousand people and that it's never changing, and it's not true that itnever changes, but it changes little enough that the mentality of all thepeople who are executing against that Targan AUDIENC. I want them to thinkthat way. I don't want them to think. Like a media team would think hey thisclicks really well in this persona. Let me go hit that person all over theplace, because that doesn't matter for us. What matters for us is that thepeople in those accounts that were targeting are seeing our ads andclicking on our stuff and attending our stuff. Now Tho data question you hadabout kind of a campaign, that's a really good example, because we had acampaign for the cruise line industry and what we learned and the marketingmember who runs s like super good. He sort of understands all the stuffreally kind of big picture and also understands the details, and she sawthat she was like talking. I the media agency and that people were clickingdown in the cruise industry and downloading this report that we had andrealizing. Yes, they worked for that cruise line, but they were. You canimagine how many people work for cruiselines right, who are just fast,ind, the ships and things. But what we really need is we need like theircorporate ID corporate people, and so they really quickly saw that adjustedand we had that problem in the past, especially with media. So we kind ofknew we. You know we have like learned our lesson, but that's super importantso, like our target list is really key, so we would rather spend more time andmoney honestly to get to the right people in a company. Then you know,then just the volume and efficiency of and this because I mentioned airlines,I mean it is kind of like something we learned is like airline hotels. Youknow cruise lines all these hospitality things there's a million. So if you tryto, for example, run a campaign for hotels and you want to identify itmanagers or it directors or something every hotel t middle of Iowa has like aIP person who runs like their internet and stuff, but that's o our target.We're talking about the corporate people, of course hat's. I think thatmakes pettic sense and what o like about the way you explain- and you showyour war story with US- is that you...

...really care about the results of thecampaign. You could idein the clicks and the open, etc, etc. Butt'stotreallyCreatativeis but avink the engagement first as most importantly, owing theengagement with the right people. So we showed the exact same mentality when itcomes to running compangis, our servs, a marketing Compang for client. Sothanks for Boen relyappreciate your time, an and insight on Al Mayquestions today. If any of listener would like to get in touch with you,what is the best platform? The best way to engage with you? It is linkedin. Myname is unique, an Asif you just search my name. I think you'll find me BRERNOCcovny, but thank you. It's been really good. I find this super interesting andI do have a lot of passion for data and MARTEC and gailing marketing. So thanksfor having me undew show, I can tell well thanks to you as well, and it wasgreat to have undher Shototi. Thank you. operatics has redefined the meaning ofrevenue generation for technology companies worldwide, while thetraditional concepts of building and managing inside sales teams in househas existed for many years. Companies are struggling with the lack of focus,agility and scale required in today's fast and complex world of enterprisetechnology sales. Seeow operatics can help your company accelerate pipelineat Operatics, dot net you've been listening to B, to b revenueacceleration to ensure that you never miss an episode subscribe to the showin your favorite podcast player. Thank you so much for listening until nexttime.

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