B2B Revenue Acceleration
B2B Revenue Acceleration

Episode · 2 years ago

42: Turning Marketing Into a Revenue Engine w/ Lee Hackett

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

CMOs are often faced with an overwhelming amount of shiny new toys when they step into their role — marketing automation platforms, ABM tools, website personalization, the list goes on. But regardless of where they place their efforts, CEOs and CFOs often look at marketing and ask: What is the bottom-line contribution?

If CMO contributions are not observable in terms of ROI, the CMO may eventually vacate their position. Then, a new CMO comes on board, and the cycle starts again.

Lee Hackett sees it all the time. It’s what keeps him up at night, and it’s part of the reason he started Bluprint in 2013, where they help CMOs and marketing leadership maximize their investments in marketing technologies.

With 25 years in marketing, Lee has a lot to say about how marketing leaders can tie their hard work to the bottom line of the c

You were listening to be tob revenueacceleration, a podcast dedicated to helping software executives stay on the cutting edge ofsales and marketing in their industry. Let's get into the show. Hi,welcome to be. To be a revenue acceleration may then, boving in withyou, and I'm yet today we Packett Ceeo at groot print x. Howare you doing the I'm greatly quite plaguing you and I think the to bigof to day is it's actually quite distructive board the sets people that are listeningto us, because it's around turning marketing to a Roman engine. But beforewe stopt the conversation, you would you man introducing yourself qualities, as wellas thinking as a little bit more about what you do and groups? Yeah, of course, absolutely so. I'm CEO bloopernt X, as you asyou mentioned, boop an x is really a technology agency, but it's quitea kind of simple. We help CMOS and marketing leadership really maximize their technologyinvestments. As you know and as most people are probably know, as anexplosion in marketing technology. So you know how to best use that technology todrive revenue. Yeah, which is always the purpose is our aim and we'vebeen doing that for five years now. We kind of worked out what worksand what doesn't, I think, and we're kind of you know, wework with mainly mid side enterprise up size companies, global shot. So thein marketing. There is so many things that marketing team can do and Iguess depending on the sale of the organization, depending on the tablefore organization, dependingon how famous the brand is, the marketing activity can change and youcan go from rainworpidation, you can go pr you can build me generation ofdens. Indications of the Great Surf canders marketing. But we see a strongshift towards marketing in the technology industry. Are being larger impact within seven Rouben, you are all real from from the box to actually drive more revenue frommarketing. What does it take for marketing teams to make this shift? AndI remind set is more focused on generating thesa, generating orbing yeah now'.It's a true summary and kind of good question. I think the last bit, you know, the key to the whare or the key to this.Is that not one of the last ways? You mentioned the earlier ways, whichwas mindset right so the whole function. If we kind of go back alittle bit, you know, marketing is a function as in a kindof mid sized company and Enterprise Global Company can be very, very different.Right, so, and I think we have to recognize that, we haveto remember that. But it let's take a typical company. have been settledby channel, where they been settle, as you said, by brand,by where by marketing, digital then come along and there was another strand ofmarketing, but a different department. So effectively a lot of these kind ofthings have been set up in a kind of organizational structure which is pretty defunct. So quite right. Right. So what's kind of happening now, asbeing happening for a while, but it's...

...getting in a lot of accelerating fast, is, you know, there's a lot of investments being made in marketing. Is a lot of shiny new toys that CMOS can buy, your digitalteams can buy and with the pretext of, you know, it can of reallyshift in the needle and finding out that it doesn't really do that andsort as a huge amount of money being put into customer experience and and theWeb and personalization and then account base marketing and all of these kind of disciplineswhich are all hope to ultimately drive revenue. But I think the key thing isis in our experience, and in my experiences, that kind of what'shappened. There's a lot of these investments have failed and a lot of thesethese approaches have failed. And so what kind of CEOS? Who? Ultimore, CFOs, ultimate, Salas, Sun is kind of stuff off now,you know, they want to see you was the return of investment. Youknow, so if we put a dollar in, what do we get backand when do we get in? And you know, we want to seea bit more security around that happening rather than, you know, we're goingto buy a new piece of technology which will help us personalize our customer journey. Well, that's great, but how we're going to get a retain onthat? And I think that takes a new mindset. You know, offor a market, of Department in general and a kind of typical company.You know, they've predominantly focused, and I've been in marketing in one wayin another for twenty years and focused on doing stuff. You know, output. You know, number of events, number of campaigns, number of visitors, the website and that's again they're, you know, the key performance indicators, but really are they going to shift the needle and drive towards revenue?So what is kind of required? There's a new mindset of, you know, fail fast, you know test and target really quickly and have a realmodel that drives toward revenue and make sure that ultimately the most important thing isthat the marketing department is aligned to the other functions within the business, becausethis is particularly sales. This is super important in every set that but youknow, particularly in the text sector. Sure, I guess you see ashift, depending on the Shaze of the other in US Asia, the Indomeof the importance of marketing being linked to UMN. You. Yeah, no, definitely. I think in the midsize company it's definitely more important and it'smore of a focus because the management team may be smaller, the CEOS closerto the business, the day to day business. In Enterprise Company, let'ssay a big you know, a big bank in the financial services industry,then you know that that that marketing department could be huge right. Could Be, you know, several hundred people in it and lots of different functions.So I actually is also about doing stuff that needs to be done on ata regular, daily, weekly, monthly basis. Right. So I thinkthe gap in a small inner, the difference in a midsize company and EnterpriseCompany. You know, the gap is reducing faster and midsize because the CEOis closer to the front line. Yeah,...

...that makes an I think we seethat opening a loud skin. It's one organization and but still even theone that they've received investments recently or even a lot of investment. People thento be a little the CFO is glows up to the Clo in the windingthis investing and they are often as king us, or what they asking us, to build a business model or business cases before we even start walking,because they want to make sure everything election we do and every single as youmentioned, everything going doll are found invested into into the marketing machine, wecreate a return. When it comes to or renew generation techniques. Have youseen any roven generation technique that, from your perspective, Walk Better Than Althoughor marketing people? No. I think for me the crucial element is consistencyand an alignment. Right. So, you know, I think all ofour customers will use different forms of revenue generation, demand generation, you knowin their particular market segment, consens indication, you know, ABM. You allstrategies and tactics at have vary different degrees of success. But I kindof think that when I see the best performance is when there's a consistent approachat joined up approach and aligned approach with sales, where there's a you know, a combined sales funnel, there's agreed ways of working, all of thesethings are in place that you know, to really get visibility on the performance. The tactics have a degree of variable but again, you know, forme the fund the begetting the fundamunts right. Being consistent in the approach and beingjoined up always delivers a better result. And when you say John, doesit drained up with management as a marketing Golthorn, your sent team orin Yours Organization within your company, or all of that? Or the mostimportant piece of sex I and where I see the biggest disconnect is, andthis is the most difficult thing to resolve, is where you know if you havea sales and marketing team with agreed ways of working and agreed integrated saleson all you know, juggled up tactics in terms of how the approach itagreed SLA's on. You know how things will be followed up and on thewhat time frame, you know, and that is then implemented into the technologyfrom a you know, from sales force or from markets and automation, andyou know topics from what how content should be written, what type of content, what kind of nature campaigns, all these kind of things should be adecision that was taken between the marketing and sales team. So you have acombined approach. For me that you know in the five or six years thatI've been doing an advising some very big companies, aowed to do this.That always delivers a better result. Shall so that's actually a very interesting tobe an I was just about to take you down, so I'm glad youkind of building me a bridge to my...

...next question, which is, youknow, we often see an issue in getting the value of marketing or associatingmarketing to rowing. You associating marketing activity stories growing, and that's often dueto the fact that the SETAF team may not attribute the back, may notdeclare fightline, may not input or that data is absolutely important for the marketthe stems. So the coach. I then for is what is the attributionmodel you've seen being the most successful? Well, I think you've hit thenail on the head right. So, you know, we can get relativelyaccurate attribution a top of the funnel, because that's in marketings, control,marketings gift. But then when we get through the funnel, as you've said, and this is kind of plays out in most organizations, is, youknow, we don't have, you know, sales people putting pipeline into sales forsort of the CRN. We don't have, you know, the correctof a green ways of working, which this is the problem, right.So this is this is if, and I say I was with a companylast week, you know, in another parts of the world, quite abig company in the technology setor and I said to the CMO there, look, you know, unless you solve that problem, whatever we do over here, whatever level of that that we do on you know, the top ofthe funnel is going to reduce the effect of performance because you're constantly still goingto be spending sixty two, seventy percent of your time, happen, tojustify your seat at the table, because we can't get attribution further down thefunnel, we can't ultimately understand what the contribution of marketing is, and thisis, for me, the big issue that you know, the can ofindustry need to get the head around. There's there's lots of shiny new toysaround that out there. There's not a lots of tactics and strategies that it'sa bit like the fitness industry, right, or the health and fitness industry.Lots of different approaches. There's lots of different things that you can doand you know what will probably work in some form. But unless you getthe fundamentals right, then everything you do will have it a limited effect andprobably won't last that long, and I think that's why you see a lotof CMOS and a lot of leadership in marketing with very short ten years intheir roles, because they're spending most of their time trying to justify whither thanthe first place. Absolutely I'm also question can of then just came up basedon the on your two to to make prevous question. Ideal community to spendone evening with twelve or fought in CMOS in the bay area a few weeksback and we had a very interesting topic of conversation at some point in theevening while we spoke about how do you market to existing opportunities? And andwhat I realize? I realized that most of them and some of them areon the table of part of very large organization you are probably focusing on.They made me feel that the focus most of that efforts in generating net newleads. Jared's your compulities, if you...

...will. It's whatever community was declaredthose something was getting into the CR and system. They kind of left itto the sense team to follow up and close basic but since the conversation wasgoing around account based marketing, going back into the accounts, people going quieton you. And the question I've got for you is, do you suggest? Do you recommend or what would be the first of the Joe? Howmuch time you should you mean this in actually marketing to existing opportunities, andI'm not talking about opportunities that are closed business and talking about people that's yourself, Temakry, currently trying to sell into and they know that there is somethinggoing on. Yeah, yeah, not. So this is an account space approach. And how can you sell more, you know, to your existing coursesmers and yeah, look, I think it's a you know, accountbased marketing, which again is a big misunderstood and misuse ten right, becausea lot of people think that kind of space marketing is a technology, whichit is because, you know, it's an account based marketing platform. ButI can't base marketings a strategy and you know it's a very broad strategy andit makes a lot of sense for marketing. The parlmanent look his own normally kindof rolls out right. So is what happens is sales say to marketing, right, look, you do top of the funnel and cares a lotof leads, right, and will kind of trash those leads, but we'llpick the ones who want to pick. It goes the sales and then salessay, look, marketing helpers, you know, provide some information for asenablement, what they would classify as enable them, which is really just kindof information for the sales guys to use. Now that is an account based marketingand it's kind of often leverage that way. But a strategy and accountbased marketing strategy, you know, right the way through the phone. SoI believe that marketing can provide and I've seen it, you know, withwith our own clients a huge amount of value to the sales process and youknow to and just by mapping out that process, that and having that integratedpipeline and having agreed ways of working across the sales and marketing program then youknow marketing can provide a huge, huge amount of value. And I've seenthis, and you know sales teams where sales teams have seen the value ofthis and and you know and really really get behind it. And you knowand and there's a lots of great companies out there. They're doing this reallywell. And you know lots of salespeople that you know now won't go andwork at a tech company if these kind of funder mental pieces are in placebecause when they've seen it in the organization they've come from and how powerful itis, then you know they didn't know. They're going to limit this success ifthese things are not in place. So if it's hard to do,it takes a new mindset and takes, you know, leadership the whole businessbeing on board. You know there's going to be some people, who I'mparticularly in sales and marketing teams, that...

...don't buy into it, but itreally is the only way to approach it and and it's on the mount andthings of getting anything right. Absolutely, but do you think is because it'sgot a normal practice to the belt section that marketing should be insense? Youright on by black brother, or when you oh yeah, they're finitely normalpractice. And look it. Even pipeline is kind of second phase for mostbusinesses. I think most businesses are. And looky, you know there's there'sI'm not a big I don't buy into the whole you know, the UShas a lot more mature than your or the UK. I think there's anelement of truth in that, but I think in general, the you know, most businesses, more Marston teams, are being still measured on output,and what I mean by that is number of leads, N Q up Right, and number of campaigns, number of people visitors the website. You know, these kind of metrics which are you know, you need to have theneed to understand what they are leading to us some thing which is the roomand you, at the end of the day, yeah, of course,and and but it's in isolation the kind of useless and ring because all itdoes is this is what kind of happens and here's the CEO or the CFO, or whatever I want to cemode keeps coming back and ask them for moremoney and keeps presenting the same metrics over and over again, and then theCFO goes okay. Well, we've been doing that for a year now andas we've spent x amounts of dollars on tactics and new technology and New Peopleand you know, actually we've got very little for it. Great, we'veyou know, we've done five more campaigns and you know what we've now doing, personalization on the website. Well, that's fantastic for me. A lotof these kind of things are common sense, but they haven't been able to drivedown to the bottom line in terms of driving new customers. And againthat, you know, comes back to the same kind of problem that wesee over and over again in terms of the you know, have a youknow, our behigging in our business is, you know, we want to makeour customers heroes. And you know what marketing people that going through rightnow. Markets and organizations and people are going feel a huge transformation and thisstuff is hard. But when I see are some of our whether it beour clients or the marketplace, doing things that and spending lots of lots ofmoney on things that are going to have a really limited effect. You know, we've got to speak out because, you know, it's the wrong it'sjust fundamentally the wrong approach. There's lots of reason behind it and why ithappens, but you know, a lot of these kind of things now arerelatively simple, and simple as hard. And that's where, again, companies, you know, kind of get lost because they get a lost in thepolitics of row. Absolutely, so I'm kind of drinking it a bit inthe point, but do you think that the marketers of tomorrow, the cmsof tomorrow, should actually go to their CEO and go to their end ofself shift for any of you? So whatever we could at first that alsiwould be responsible for the dog plant and actually said, well, I wantto have measurable Apis and objective base on...

...revenue, based on company success.You think as a child? Yeah, definitely. Look, I think ifyou're a really smart cmo now, then you know, if I was goinginto a CMO role, I would say no, I need a few thingsand need, you know, fundamentally, tides of revenue number, but Ineed the ability in the scope to be able to affect that. Yeah,so that's probably going to need some organizational changes. It's going to need amodel right because you know, a lot of the can of you know,let's go back to the health and fitness kind of example. A lot ofthe kind of things out there at the moment, the fads don't are goodin isolation. But it's not a broad model and that you know. TheyCEMO can presented the CEO and say look, here's a model we're going to introduce. Is what I need and need your support and need money. Ineed I'm willing to, you know, be tied to a revenue number andand get the business on board fast. I would do that before I doanything. The kind of what normally happens is you, and I know,is the CMO, comes in and goes what kind of shiny think and Ido to prove of somewhere and I you are rebrun the website and and thenyou spend half a million dollars rebranding the website and what happens is that,you know, the level of effort compared to the level of impact of thatapproach then delivers very little. So you know, it can of and we'llsee you get frustrated to see if I'll get frustrated, the CEIM old leaksand then we go around again. And so if I was to Clo that'swhat I would be doing. I would basically here's my model, here's myapproach. You give me the support, I'll deliver this number. If youdon't give in the support, I'm not going to deliver the number. It'skind of black and white track. That makes but, Mike, Perfect Sense. Coming back to ADICTI good question. In the preparation of that book,guests, we spoke about, and coming back to the roven your attribution aswell with a Seras team. We spoke about our marketing automation playing your roleinspecially dating that. That's rebut you can you please develop on that a bitmore? Yeah, Lo markets automation is certain a kind of metaphor. Theanalogy that I use is it. You know, it's an engine and froma often team and it's it's at the center of the markets and business.You know, it kind of has to be integrated to the the CRM andwhatever that is. You know we've got to be pulling data back and forthand you know we've got a every channel that we access, you know,has to be pulling back data from that channel into the market and automation platform. So we're starting to build up a really clear picture of our marketable databaseagainst our addressable total addressable market. And you know, for I guess,the majority of my experience in markets and automation, it's not what that likethat right. Often automation is look that. How could we, you know,automate emails right? How can we what we do now? Let's keepdoing that, but can we do it better and show me? That's acompletely not a waste of time and it's not what it was supposed to be. That makes perfect sensely what? Thank...

...you very much, riving, andthanks for all the insight the INPUTETUE. We shall with us today. Wehave a traditional question at you know, the book guest which is both ifsomeone wants to get inductries, you ne to is all as or down someof the peaks we discussed today, or if they want to to engage withprintakes, what would be the best way to wongage with you? Yeah,the easiest way to channel's on instagram or Linkedin. Obviously, for my name'sa Linkedin or Instagram is late on the school hacket and we're trying to builda community of blueprint cks, of marketing and sales people and, you know, really roll out these best practices and take away a lot of the kindof misinformation and on a lack of understanding of what, you know, thefundamentals are. So, you know, more than happy if anyone was toshoot me a message direct but, you know, really appreciate you taking thetime to, you know, to bring me on and and, you know, and and answer the questions while lead was great to have under shoot theday to. Thank you very much for thing. Thanks all. Appreciate it. operatics has redefined the meaning of revenue generation for technology companies worldwide. Whilethe traditional concepts of building and managing inside sales teams inhouse has existed for manyyears, companies are struggling with a lack of focus, agility and scale requiredin today's fast and complex world of enterprise technology sales. See How operatics canhelp your company accelerate pipeline at operatics dotnet. You've been listening to be to berevenue acceleration. To ensure that you never miss an episode, subscribe tothe show in your favorite podcast player. Thank you, so much for listeninguntil next time.

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