B2B Revenue Acceleration
B2B Revenue Acceleration

Episode · 2 years ago

60: It’s Time to Value Sales Development and its Role in B2B Marketing Success w/ Garrett Mehrguth


The reality of an Amazon and Yelp world is that people are going to do informational searches before they visit your website.

If you’re only measuring whether your brand shows up when people are searching for it, you’re completing ignoring whether it’s what your searcher wants in the first place.

On this episode of B2B Revenue Acceleration, I interview Garrett Mehrguth, CEO at Directive Consulting, about why sales development is so undervalued in B2B marketing — and what we can do about it.

What we talked about:

  • Why it’s time to value sales development
  • 3 best practices for developing good sales development timing
  • The only 4 metrics you need to be tracking
  • Focusing on your brand, not your search results

To hear this episode, and many more like it, you can subscribe to The B2B Revenue Acceleration Podcast.

If you don’t use Apple Podcasts, you can listen to every episode here.

You were listening to bb revenue acceleration, a podcast dedicated helping software executives stay on the cutting edge of sales andmarketing in their industry. Let's get into the show. Hi, welcome tobe to be a revenue acceleration. My name is Ahny. Am with youand I'm yet today with Garrett me. Good see you a directive consulting.How are you doing today, Garret? I'm doing well. Thanks for havingme excited to cheality ray and glad a beer. Yeah, that's the absolutepleasure as well on my side. So I'll topic for today is it's timeto value self development and its role in BTB marketing success. It's a longtitle, but I like the ID behind it and I'm very excited about thatconversation today. But before we go into the detail, Garrett, could youpresent introduce yourself as well as, you know, give us more information aboutyour company directive? Yeah, so I started directing about five years ago,almost six actually, as like five and a half years ago, and wedo search marketing for enterprise brands a lot in the BBB space storically last twothree years and really focus on BBB. And Yeah, we essentially partner withinhouse marketing teams in the BBB space a lot of times demand generation and helpthem hit their goals and their kpiyes around leads and opportunity stills and revenues.Yeah, we focus a lot in that area and mostly Seo and PBC.Excellent what that's and that's what it's quite intriguing for me because today we wouldhave expected to probably have more conversation with your on digital marketing and Seo.But I like the fact that your company on the stand that their job isnot just to deliver leads, it's you care as an organization about what actuallyhappens to the leads after you end the mover to to the cells development teamof your clients, and I think that's in valuable. But you know,we know that when the cells development to do leads on, obviously there willbe different kind of outcome that you can expect. It could be an opportunity, it could be a not turing opportunity or it could be no portunity.Wrong person, wrong company, won't wrong contact. But coming back to mymain question and my opening question, why is it time to value selves developmentand why do you think it isn't valued enough? At the moment selves.Development goes couple ways right. So a lot of times the reason cells development, I wouldn't say selles on isn't necessarily valued in high growth organizations. Ithink in legacy organizations, sells development isn't as valued, and I think oneof the reasons is you know in be to be when you have a hiredpurchase. Like I've learned, two things are really important to why cells developmentworks or not. One of the things that's important for sales development works ornot is timing. I found that the most important thing cells development is gettingthe time right. With some cool tactics that we do, the OPT hereto get the timing right more often. So that's really important. But itdepends if you're a replacement pro or an add on product, or replacement serviceor an add on service. So if you were a replacement service, thatmeans intrinsically for someone to hire you, they have to fire someone. Andif your industry relies on more long term...

...contracts or six or twelve month contracts, then once again it goes back to timing, because they couldn't even hireyou even if they wanted to a lot of the times, and so youhave to start to understand and sale development. When you have high purchase prices areplacement product, you have to learning at the time. You right,and so there's a lot of things that go in to it. And ifyou don't understand all that and you kind of think that you're just going tosend out a hundred emails and get free responses and then set two meetings andget one deal, it doesn't actually work like that. And so I thinka lot of times people go in with the wrong expectations and they don't realizethat takes six months to ramp up and SDR sometimes, or it could take, you know, two years of investment to build out the team before theyeven get to positive Roi and a lot of people don't want to invest thattype of capital. Yeah, and if in detaining is key, you knowwe we've seen you tour and prior res so have you. But I thinkif someone done a load twenty pages white paper, following up with them withinfive minutes of them doing the done lad might not be a ready relevance becausenobody can read it. That it's okay. However, deals are end. Youknow, we were so deal with chat. So we may have someonecoming up onto a chat and the problem we charted that you often have peopleasking you question about the product the already guts and that's pretty trained to buystops for chat. All you know, you maysob a lot of time inwaist of but we chat, you need to be very quick because if Iwant, if I'm doing a chat, and actually at an example in mypersonal life, while was trying to deal with someone and the chat window openfor probably at five minutes and then what should do? You Open another windowand you carry on your day, you do something else and then when youcome back the chet is finished. So yeah, you've got to stop theprocess again. So tell me a little bit more about the timing and andwhat you see as best participt. I agree with you at there is awide wrench. We may be a tricky question, but we just develop alittle bit more or share with us a few wall stories about where you seethe timing being very important and and successful for your clients. Yeah, oneof the things we found timing is it's critical to map accounts, and sowhat we learned is a lot of times when you're trying to sell someone orbuild a relationship, we oftentimes we ask for too much. We start theconversation with asking for their time, which is the most valuable thing to anyprofessional you're actually trying to get their business from, and so we ask fora meeting with for fifty minute call about the time here intro calls, andwhat I found is it's actually better to learn about their current situation. Dothey have an agency or not? Are you already using a sales platform?Okay, when's that contract of are you the best person talk with? Sowe actually focus on here at directed mapping accounts. That's our primary initial KPI, and by mapping accounts we can then building our sales force database. Weknow when every account is up and we know then we can essentially give ourselvesdevelopment team. Okay, in six months this contracts up and eventually they havethousands of accounts where they actually already know when the timings right, which makesus incredibly successful that way. So it's kind of a great spellus be feltthat renew what. He's Jewish. We...

...feel that some way is gonna runyou something in January two thousand and twenty and you know that you've got totwo months set of psych ors. You probably want to contact them, meDoctorbo to say hey, do you remember the conversation we had? We appreciatethat you're doing. That makes sense. That phasement product right. You couldn'tremember if you're asking for an intro call and they can't even hire you.You know what they do, right? That's the ninety seven percent of peoplethat don't respond. And so we do is less engage with the people thataren't responding because they don't have any timing. It's not that the message isn't necessarilyrelevant and they wouldn't hire us to set the timing so wrong that theycan't even worry about it right now. So instead we ask questions that arenot timing dependent to learn more about them and then we can get the timingright and then not bug them. And it doesn't feel salesy because they're actuallygenuinely thinking about a new organization, new software, New Agency to support themat that time. And so when we reach out, we get to havea lovely conversation, we get a meeting and then we get to help themmake a purchasing decision because we know the timings right. That's a really importantpart. So he has something that you do short like a progressive profiling typeof approach. So I don't know. You've got, let's say you've gotfunored of question to ask me, you know, in order to put mein the right segment, in order to disposition me as a contact for yourorganization. Does that mean that every single time you've got an interaction with me, you would ask me a defriend question? So as time goes by and andwhile you may not be getting my time yet, but you may begetting information that we help you to go further and further into with that guywith what is he doing in the company and what does you really care about? That is that's what you guys do. We go more relational. So we'lljust try to learn about you, will find out what you like,will probably send you a gift, will call you linkedin message, you willemail, you will show up in person. Will eventually figure out when. Wewill figure out if very wants to hire an agency, if he doesn't, if he currently has one and if he does currently have one, when'sthat contract up? We don't want to bug you, we just want tolet you know that we exist and we want to get the timing right sothat you can focus on what you do and that you know about us whenyou focused on what we do. And yet, by aligning ourselves in thatway, it makes us less salesy and more helpful, and we just learnedabout you. We build a relationship and we figure out when the timing isright and then we don't bug you. We might shoot you a case studyevery month, every two months, but we let you do your job andwe know as long as we reach out six days, ninety days before,you're going to make the purchasing decision. Now you can start to have asales conversation before that. We have relational conversations, absolutely, and I thinkit's the right way to do it. It's the right way to do itbecause you want people, particularly your line of business is very similar to alland of business. At operatics we sell services and unfortunately there is lots ofpeople in my domain, as there is a lot in your domain, thatmake that make your the main look bad, and made the main look bad becausethere is lots of people that will come with crazy business model, crazysolutions and probably over sale, overpromising on...

...the deliver which you then kind ofimpact us because we speak to people who have had their finger bonds. Yeah, and now I gotta agree with you. Yeah, you know, I agreewith you. I mean I get actually even sometimes contacted by companies,will direct competitors of us, and they ask me if any do services.And I'm sure you've got the same and it's the same with, I think, recruitment and and all the other type of services that are little bit morewhether is lots of competition. And I think there is two things. Notonly you've got to respect the prospect, but you also need to add theoutset very, very quickly. Put in front of them what makes unique inthe market and what change, what difference you can create for them, andand then those difference should be probably two US three little stones that they've gotin their shoe and as they're carrying on with the current supplier, get thecarry on with another are. Yeah, is we just studying the shoe orthe student they get off that actually did into do something about it now.But but we do use this an approach, that a soft touch approach, ofrespectful approach, because I think that a professional you are now, youwould treat the prospect, which ultimately is is quite important, I believe.Yeah, I just you know, the Insula is that weird place right itbalancing volume so you can get the timing right more often, and then personalwhere you where you're building relationships, and so you'll for us we segment andwe say, okay, each SDR has a hundred and ten accounts that weknow by name that we fully mapped and those are the accounts that are reallyfocused on. That if we get them now or if we get them infive years, we still want them and it's worth it, and so weinvest a lot there and then we use other things to scale up our volumefor the rest of that market. So that, yeah, we always haveessentially our account based cell development model as well as kind of a vertical basesales development model, and we kind of blended to help us it volume goalsas well as personal goals. That makes perfect sense. And we should theset of development teams report to primarily from your perspectives, you think they shouldreport to marketing or do you thinkish with report to sells? Oh, Ithink they need to report to sales, but I think they can report tolike with the way we rock operators. I have shared goals between marketing andsales development and we do a lot of events. We do a lot oflike so we do two events a month in almost every major city. Thatfrom our map to accounts based on like where the geography, and so we'lldo two events a month. And then what that does is it gives ourSDR team a way to decrease psychological friction because now they're giving the prospects somethingto send, they're inviting them to something instead of asking them for something,and so it changes the relationship of SDR and then marketing as the host event, and then they share essentially opportunities. So we have an opportunities, dealsand revenue goal for the entire Growth Department that marketing and sales development share.Right I found sales development struggles with messaging, marketing struggles sometimes with quotas and Kpis, and so we kind of blend...

...the to but with their idea ofa director of sales development and I do have the director of marketing and thenI have a separate account executive team which you're just kind of senior guys thatoperate a little bit on their own, but all three exist within a growthdepartment which I still head up, and so I'm kind of like tef revenueofficer in that sense, and then I have a director of marketing, asenior account executive, a client facing account executive, and then, you know, a director of sales development, and then those people essentially reported to me. They're all sharing the same numbers actually, of course. Yet and that's makeof that. What do you think is the you mentioned? There isa there is a requirement fun agreement between starters, marketing and set of development. So at that Magic I plan generation triangle, what are the key Kpisthat you would recommend to Alligence to look at? And then she's a questionthat to ask could nuts in that podcast, because so important. Amos, onthat Trinity. What you should look at quite a tea velsus quanty teteis. It's sort of as a big, a big question, but he isthere anything in Poltic Cadat? Shoot, you look at in them a flignmentsand KPIS. Yeah, so I track counts mapped because, remember,I really want to build my data set and no one contracts are up,because then I can crack the timing code and it makes it so much easierto sell. So it counts. MAPPS is a really important API to me. INTRO calls. So essentially can like not conversations, but like essentially initialmeetings. Then proposals or demos, so opportunities. So we call anything whereproposals given, we call it an opportunity. And then deals and revenue and that'sit. I tried to actually I let my director sales development track alot of other things like conversation length and dials and emails. What I've realizedis if you create two strict of a recipe for sales development rep every salesdevelopment repped has inner personal and things that make them unique as a person,as a human, and a lot of times set input numbers like two hundreddolls or fifty dollars or two hundred emails with her. It doesn't allow oneperson where a woman might be phenomenal on Linkedin and she can just hit hernumbers every time doing just linked in. Another guy's terrible and like did,but he's world class on the phone. Another guy's terrible in the phone buthe's amazing and writing copy. And what I found is if I try tomake all three of them the same Sdr I get lower performance. So soI really worry a lot more about my output management that I do on myinput management, and so I give people a lot of freedom to hit theiraccounts mapped in Tro call and opportunity goals on the sales development side more thanheading their call goals or their email goals. And if they're not calling emailing andthey're not hitting their numbers, then you can kind of do a performancereview or let them go. You have to give them the freedom to figureout if they're better on the phones, are better on the email or betteron social and then just hit their opportunity deals a revenue goal from there.Of course, of course not. That's makes perfect sense. I'm going tomove on. Anyt bit from from Das d btls there as develop mentioned generalor, and I know that You'all strong believing the concept and why you needto focus your attention on your brand and and not only on your search results. Can you please allaborates on that, fall audiince? Yeah, so youwork with a lot of software companies,...

...right? HM, yes, wedo. You most most of all come sectually. Probably Eighty five percent ofFaulk Lens also Talk Company. So yes, we do pretty much the same.With myself, I'd say I'm about you know, seventy five percent SASS. And what I found is like, if you go on Google right nowand you search top ARP software orcle Microsoft Dynamics and whoeversults in that space,they don't rank. And that's not because Oracle and Microsoft have terrible websites andterrible brands and no pages and no SEO. It's because Google has decided that atthe bottom of the funnel, when people are looking for a purchasing typedecision, they're doing comparison shopping. People want to look at review sites.That's get crowd software advice Cap Tera. These are sites a you might scrapea or you might be doing for list building. These are on by Gardner, forester and other players in the space. I point is that calls the yelpin the Amazon effect. If we look at yelped before we buy afive dollar breakfast Burrito, we sure as hecker going to look at software advicebefore we buy a quarter million dollar software. And so it doesn't matter if yourwebsite shows up or your brand shows up. The point is that you'rediscoverable. And so what we help these organizations learn and we measure and wemanage for them is how often their brands are showing up when people are searching, because if you're only measuring if your website shows up but Google saying yourwebsite isn't going to show up because that's not what our searcher wants, thenyou're trying to do something that isn't actually feasible. So if you're telling thatyour client, obviously the client's going to fire you because you didn't do whatyou said you would. It's nothing to do with your ability as everything todo with your reality. And so we look at the reality of a searchengine, the reality of a buying journey, and then we position our clients tobe discovered at every point of that, whether there's informational intent or purchase intent, and then we essentially measure that reality funds and time and effort sothat our clients drastically increased pipeline and then grow opportunities, deals and revenue.And we've been hyper effective with brands like Zumo, logic and sure well,we're just started working with Betterman. We do everything for all state and Ciscoand Samsung and ten cent and, you know, count with Sass companies inthe mid markets and enterprise space by helping them essentially be discoverable and from theirgrow exceptionally. I mean you're in the sales space. We worked with exactlyfor over two years. When we first start with them, we grew theirpipeline by over three hundred percent in the first quarter by just helping them geton review sites and be more discoverable and show up when it mattered, andthey're hyper successful. It really does work and that makes perfect sensition. Imean this is I'm moving into a new house now and my wife, he'sasking me to buy you a new I was looking for wine fridge. Theythought that sounds very, very cliche for a Frenchman, but that you goand I had no idea what a good dwine f Jays and I need exactlywhat you mentioned. I mean you took the example of Arom Barrito, whichour slight, but I went on comparison websites and basically both the frange thatI think was pleasing most of the people that like the central to as Ido. Right, exactly, go to their website. Right. You justwanted to review site, you learned about and then you went to their website. Yeah, yeah, we marketing in growth. People want people to firstgo to their website. That's not actually...

...how a purchasing journey works. Andso but the problem is is because they can't track how well they're doing anothersite, they don't value it because they have to report on metrics and becausethey become so Kypi obsessed and so obsessed on the metrics that they can reporton, they don't value the things that are actually going to grow the mostimportant metrics, like opportunities, deals and revenue. And so we try tohelp educate people and we help them measure in track it using sequel databases andour kind of engineering team to actually show, look, we can actually track thosethird party sites, show the value and allow you to be a muchbetter demand generation or search marketer and drive opportunities, deals and revenue for yourSASS company. Of course, then I'm interesting to us. You want tolast question. I that's a wrong marketing attribution. We've got to large potof all audience. While marketing professionally in software companies, all you know beto be I lovel savvycs type of companies and we often speak to them aboutmarketing attribution and bots running when you do a lot of online stuff, aPR and all that sort of great things. But how can you truckt your investmentsin brand do the thing and attributed back to marketing after a convulsion intoa posts our revenue? You can do it in certain areas, like withyou through conversions. So by setting up the script properly, interest you cansee you through. But here's what I would argue a we need to justtake a deep breath and use comments and sometimes, and the problem is reallyattributed yet that well, but because we're so desperate to attribute everything, weforget about the value of brand. And what I mean by that is wewant to be the largest company, but we don't ever think about being themost wellknown company. You know, it's crazy. Right in two thousand andnineteen we forgot about all the basics of advertising and marketing that have worked sowell. The reason why Super Bowl commercials are still a thing, the reasonwhy there we all purchased from brands we recognize. Imagine how much more successfulin effective sales development is when you call people and when you say who youare, they've heard of you before like that is a huge factor. Thenclose rate and a acquisition of new business. Yet because we can't say, oh, which added they see before they saw it. We stopped investing inbrand building because we can't measure it perfectly to the deal, and we theninvest in higher acquisition channels like Seo and PPC, which I also a hundredpercent believe in, but then we d value brand. Right now, mybusiness is getting twenty million impressions for four thousand dollars a month and we've hadenterprise brands that we dreamed about fill out our form since launching the campaigns whodidn't fill out our form before because they've heard of us now. And notonly have they heard of us, when they search for SEO agency, whenthey search for PBC agency, they find us and now, instead of beingthe brand they haven't heard of, now are the brand they've seen, they'veheard of and has great reviews and now we're able to work with them.They have our positioning right, we have our awareness and it equals revenue generation. The other way, they can track at the rate, because I don'twant it to be like you can't track...

...it at all. You can usethe view through conversions and you can look at your direct traffic to your brand. So you can go look at direct traffic in Google and see if that'sgrowing ak more people just knowing about you. You can look at a tool likesem rush or a trefs and then search your brand name and see howmany people are searching that a month and then you can measure if that goesup or down. There's a lot of ways to do it and I'm actuallybuilding a software that will be launching sometime next six months that measures your branddiscoverability across versus you and your top two competitors. So you can put ina thousand keywords and see how often your brand shows up, not just yourwebsite. So if you show up on somebody else's site, if you showup an ads, if you show up show open shopping campaigns, will beable to measure all of that in the benchmarkt against your competition and every monthyou'll see if you're becoming more or less discoverable. And I do believe thatthe future search marketing is making brands discoverable for keywords that people are looking for, and it's going to be a crucial part that is not being valued nearlyenough today, and I agree with you absolutely. Under percent what unfortunately wecoming to the end of foure. Shame because I probably can't think about anothertwenty question I can ask you, but you know we need to keep thema shell. If that's you can that we we're just coming out of theattention spam or all the the sell seeming its commute. Love all the rightJodan's, but I want you to thank you for your insight today. GetRight. I really appreciate the defided you to your time to get to getalways me and and share all your swords and onto all the question that Iget to ask you. If anyone wants to get in touch with you tofollow up speak about directive, just as your question about which we discussed today. What's the best way to get hold of you? Yeah, you justgo to directive consultingcom and you know we have life chat. We have aform there. You can also email us for new business at sales at directiveconsultingcom. Do you just want to chat, feel free to connect from on Linkedinor twitter. It's G and then my last named Marygoot across all thoseplatforms. Garrett, Mary, you you'll find me. I'm the only onein the world so love the chat with you. Love to connect answer anyquestions you have if you're trying to think about how to grow your lead volumeor give your sales development team better leads, Potter leads, warmer leads and justgrow over overall pipeline at assass company or in an enterprise brand. Wewould love to support you and the love the chat and see if it's afit. Sounds Great. Well, many things. Once again, eat.was great to have you unders with today. Guard all right, thank you somuch. Right, operatics has redefined the meaning of revenue generation for technologycompanies worldwide. While the traditional concepts of building and managing inside sales teams inhousehas existed for many years, companies are struggling with a lack of focus,agility and scale required in today's fast and complex world of enterprise technology sales.See How operatics can help your company accelerate pipeline at operatics dotnet. You've beenlistening to be to be revenue acceleration. To ensure that you never miss anepisode, subscribe to the show in your favorite podcast player. Thank you somuch for listening. Until next time,.

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