B2B Revenue Acceleration
B2B Revenue Acceleration

Episode · 2 years ago

60: It’s Time to Value Sales Development and its Role in B2B Marketing Success w/ Garrett Mehrguth


The reality of an Amazon and Yelp world is that people are going to do informational searches before they visit your website.

If you’re only measuring whether your brand shows up when people are searching for it, you’re completing ignoring whether it’s what your searcher wants in the first place.

On this episode of B2B Revenue Acceleration, I interview Garrett Mehrguth, CEO at Directive Consulting, about why sales development is so undervalued in B2B marketing — and what we can do about it.

What we talked about:

  • Why it’s time to value sales development
  • 3 best practices for developing good sales development timing
  • The only 4 metrics you need to be tracking
  • Focusing on your brand, not your search results

To hear this episode, and many more like it, you can subscribe to The B2B Revenue Acceleration Podcast.

If you don’t use Apple Podcasts, you can listen to every episode here.

You were listening to bb revenue acceleration, a podcast dedicated helping software executives stay on the cutting edge of sales and marketing in their industry. Let's get into the show. Hi, welcome to be to be a revenue acceleration. My name is Ahny. Am with you and I'm yet today with Garrett me. Good see you a directive consulting. How are you doing today, Garret? I'm doing well. Thanks for having me excited to cheality ray and glad a beer. Yeah, that's the absolute pleasure as well on my side. So I'll topic for today is it's time to value self development and its role in BTB marketing success. It's a long title, but I like the ID behind it and I'm very excited about that conversation today. But before we go into the detail, Garrett, could you present introduce yourself as well as, you know, give us more information about your company directive? Yeah, so I started directing about five years ago, almost six actually, as like five and a half years ago, and we do search marketing for enterprise brands a lot in the BBB space storically last two three years and really focus on BBB. And Yeah, we essentially partner with inhouse marketing teams in the BBB space a lot of times demand generation and help them hit their goals and their kpiyes around leads and opportunity stills and revenues. Yeah, we focus a lot in that area and mostly Seo and PBC. Excellent what that's and that's what it's quite intriguing for me because today we would have expected to probably have more conversation with your on digital marketing and Seo. But I like the fact that your company on the stand that their job is not just to deliver leads, it's you care as an organization about what actually happens to the leads after you end the mover to to the cells development team of your clients, and I think that's in valuable. But you know, we know that when the cells development to do leads on, obviously there will be different kind of outcome that you can expect. It could be an opportunity, it could be a not turing opportunity or it could be no portunity. Wrong person, wrong company, won't wrong contact. But coming back to my main question and my opening question, why is it time to value selves development and why do you think it isn't valued enough? At the moment selves. Development goes couple ways right. So a lot of times the reason cells development, I wouldn't say selles on isn't necessarily valued in high growth organizations. I think in legacy organizations, sells development isn't as valued, and I think one of the reasons is you know in be to be when you have a hired purchase. Like I've learned, two things are really important to why cells development works or not. One of the things that's important for sales development works or not is timing. I found that the most important thing cells development is getting the time right. With some cool tactics that we do, the OPT here to get the timing right more often. So that's really important. But it depends if you're a replacement pro or an add on product, or replacement service or an add on service. So if you were a replacement service, that means intrinsically for someone to hire you, they have to fire someone. And if your industry relies on more long term...

...contracts or six or twelve month contracts, then once again it goes back to timing, because they couldn't even hire you even if they wanted to a lot of the times, and so you have to start to understand and sale development. When you have high purchase prices a replacement product, you have to learning at the time. You right, and so there's a lot of things that go in to it. And if you don't understand all that and you kind of think that you're just going to send out a hundred emails and get free responses and then set two meetings and get one deal, it doesn't actually work like that. And so I think a lot of times people go in with the wrong expectations and they don't realize that takes six months to ramp up and SDR sometimes, or it could take, you know, two years of investment to build out the team before they even get to positive Roi and a lot of people don't want to invest that type of capital. Yeah, and if in detaining is key, you know we we've seen you tour and prior res so have you. But I think if someone done a load twenty pages white paper, following up with them within five minutes of them doing the done lad might not be a ready relevance because nobody can read it. That it's okay. However, deals are end. You know, we were so deal with chat. So we may have someone coming up onto a chat and the problem we charted that you often have people asking you question about the product the already guts and that's pretty trained to buy stops for chat. All you know, you maysob a lot of time in waist of but we chat, you need to be very quick because if I want, if I'm doing a chat, and actually at an example in my personal life, while was trying to deal with someone and the chat window open for probably at five minutes and then what should do? You Open another window and you carry on your day, you do something else and then when you come back the chet is finished. So yeah, you've got to stop the process again. So tell me a little bit more about the timing and and what you see as best participt. I agree with you at there is a wide wrench. We may be a tricky question, but we just develop a little bit more or share with us a few wall stories about where you see the timing being very important and and successful for your clients. Yeah, one of the things we found timing is it's critical to map accounts, and so what we learned is a lot of times when you're trying to sell someone or build a relationship, we oftentimes we ask for too much. We start the conversation with asking for their time, which is the most valuable thing to any professional you're actually trying to get their business from, and so we ask for a meeting with for fifty minute call about the time here intro calls, and what I found is it's actually better to learn about their current situation. Do they have an agency or not? Are you already using a sales platform? Okay, when's that contract of are you the best person talk with? So we actually focus on here at directed mapping accounts. That's our primary initial KPI, and by mapping accounts we can then building our sales force database. We know when every account is up and we know then we can essentially give ourselves development team. Okay, in six months this contracts up and eventually they have thousands of accounts where they actually already know when the timings right, which makes us incredibly successful that way. So it's kind of a great spellus be felt that renew what. He's Jewish. We...

...feel that some way is gonna run you something in January two thousand and twenty and you know that you've got to two months set of psych ors. You probably want to contact them, me Doctorbo to say hey, do you remember the conversation we had? We appreciate that you're doing. That makes sense. That phasement product right. You couldn't remember if you're asking for an intro call and they can't even hire you. You know what they do, right? That's the ninety seven percent of people that don't respond. And so we do is less engage with the people that aren't responding because they don't have any timing. It's not that the message isn't necessarily relevant and they wouldn't hire us to set the timing so wrong that they can't even worry about it right now. So instead we ask questions that are not timing dependent to learn more about them and then we can get the timing right and then not bug them. And it doesn't feel salesy because they're actually genuinely thinking about a new organization, new software, New Agency to support them at that time. And so when we reach out, we get to have a lovely conversation, we get a meeting and then we get to help them make a purchasing decision because we know the timings right. That's a really important part. So he has something that you do short like a progressive profiling type of approach. So I don't know. You've got, let's say you've got funored of question to ask me, you know, in order to put me in the right segment, in order to disposition me as a contact for your organization. Does that mean that every single time you've got an interaction with me, you would ask me a defriend question? So as time goes by and and while you may not be getting my time yet, but you may be getting information that we help you to go further and further into with that guy with what is he doing in the company and what does you really care about? That is that's what you guys do. We go more relational. So we'll just try to learn about you, will find out what you like, will probably send you a gift, will call you linkedin message, you will email, you will show up in person. Will eventually figure out when. We will figure out if very wants to hire an agency, if he doesn't, if he currently has one and if he does currently have one, when's that contract up? We don't want to bug you, we just want to let you know that we exist and we want to get the timing right so that you can focus on what you do and that you know about us when you focused on what we do. And yet, by aligning ourselves in that way, it makes us less salesy and more helpful, and we just learned about you. We build a relationship and we figure out when the timing is right and then we don't bug you. We might shoot you a case study every month, every two months, but we let you do your job and we know as long as we reach out six days, ninety days before, you're going to make the purchasing decision. Now you can start to have a sales conversation before that. We have relational conversations, absolutely, and I think it's the right way to do it. It's the right way to do it because you want people, particularly your line of business is very similar to all and of business. At operatics we sell services and unfortunately there is lots of people in my domain, as there is a lot in your domain, that make that make your the main look bad, and made the main look bad because there is lots of people that will come with crazy business model, crazy solutions and probably over sale, overpromising on...

...the deliver which you then kind of impact us because we speak to people who have had their finger bonds. Yeah, and now I gotta agree with you. Yeah, you know, I agree with you. I mean I get actually even sometimes contacted by companies, will direct competitors of us, and they ask me if any do services. And I'm sure you've got the same and it's the same with, I think, recruitment and and all the other type of services that are little bit more whether is lots of competition. And I think there is two things. Not only you've got to respect the prospect, but you also need to add the outset very, very quickly. Put in front of them what makes unique in the market and what change, what difference you can create for them, and and then those difference should be probably two US three little stones that they've got in their shoe and as they're carrying on with the current supplier, get the carry on with another are. Yeah, is we just studying the shoe or the student they get off that actually did into do something about it now. But but we do use this an approach, that a soft touch approach, of respectful approach, because I think that a professional you are now, you would treat the prospect, which ultimately is is quite important, I believe. Yeah, I just you know, the Insula is that weird place right it balancing volume so you can get the timing right more often, and then personal where you where you're building relationships, and so you'll for us we segment and we say, okay, each SDR has a hundred and ten accounts that we know by name that we fully mapped and those are the accounts that are really focused on. That if we get them now or if we get them in five years, we still want them and it's worth it, and so we invest a lot there and then we use other things to scale up our volume for the rest of that market. So that, yeah, we always have essentially our account based cell development model as well as kind of a vertical base sales development model, and we kind of blended to help us it volume goals as well as personal goals. That makes perfect sense. And we should the set of development teams report to primarily from your perspectives, you think they should report to marketing or do you thinkish with report to sells? Oh, I think they need to report to sales, but I think they can report to like with the way we rock operators. I have shared goals between marketing and sales development and we do a lot of events. We do a lot of like so we do two events a month in almost every major city. That from our map to accounts based on like where the geography, and so we'll do two events a month. And then what that does is it gives our SDR team a way to decrease psychological friction because now they're giving the prospects something to send, they're inviting them to something instead of asking them for something, and so it changes the relationship of SDR and then marketing as the host event, and then they share essentially opportunities. So we have an opportunities, deals and revenue goal for the entire Growth Department that marketing and sales development share. Right I found sales development struggles with messaging, marketing struggles sometimes with quotas and Kpis, and so we kind of blend...

...the to but with their idea of a director of sales development and I do have the director of marketing and then I have a separate account executive team which you're just kind of senior guys that operate a little bit on their own, but all three exist within a growth department which I still head up, and so I'm kind of like tef revenue officer in that sense, and then I have a director of marketing, a senior account executive, a client facing account executive, and then, you know, a director of sales development, and then those people essentially reported to me. They're all sharing the same numbers actually, of course. Yet and that's make of that. What do you think is the you mentioned? There is a there is a requirement fun agreement between starters, marketing and set of development. So at that Magic I plan generation triangle, what are the key Kpis that you would recommend to Alligence to look at? And then she's a question that to ask could nuts in that podcast, because so important. Amos, on that Trinity. What you should look at quite a tea velsus quanty tete is. It's sort of as a big, a big question, but he is there anything in Poltic Cadat? Shoot, you look at in them a flignments and KPIS. Yeah, so I track counts mapped because, remember, I really want to build my data set and no one contracts are up, because then I can crack the timing code and it makes it so much easier to sell. So it counts. MAPPS is a really important API to me. INTRO calls. So essentially can like not conversations, but like essentially initial meetings. Then proposals or demos, so opportunities. So we call anything where proposals given, we call it an opportunity. And then deals and revenue and that's it. I tried to actually I let my director sales development track a lot of other things like conversation length and dials and emails. What I've realized is if you create two strict of a recipe for sales development rep every sales development repped has inner personal and things that make them unique as a person, as a human, and a lot of times set input numbers like two hundred dolls or fifty dollars or two hundred emails with her. It doesn't allow one person where a woman might be phenomenal on Linkedin and she can just hit her numbers every time doing just linked in. Another guy's terrible and like did, but he's world class on the phone. Another guy's terrible in the phone but he's amazing and writing copy. And what I found is if I try to make all three of them the same Sdr I get lower performance. So so I really worry a lot more about my output management that I do on my input management, and so I give people a lot of freedom to hit their accounts mapped in Tro call and opportunity goals on the sales development side more than heading their call goals or their email goals. And if they're not calling emailing and they're not hitting their numbers, then you can kind of do a performance review or let them go. You have to give them the freedom to figure out if they're better on the phones, are better on the email or better on social and then just hit their opportunity deals a revenue goal from there. Of course, of course not. That's makes perfect sense. I'm going to move on. Anyt bit from from Das d btls there as develop mentioned general or, and I know that You'all strong believing the concept and why you need to focus your attention on your brand and and not only on your search results. Can you please allaborates on that, fall audiince? Yeah, so you work with a lot of software companies,...

...right? HM, yes, we do. You most most of all come sectually. Probably Eighty five percent of Faulk Lens also Talk Company. So yes, we do pretty much the same. With myself, I'd say I'm about you know, seventy five percent SASS. And what I found is like, if you go on Google right now and you search top ARP software orcle Microsoft Dynamics and whoeversults in that space, they don't rank. And that's not because Oracle and Microsoft have terrible websites and terrible brands and no pages and no SEO. It's because Google has decided that at the bottom of the funnel, when people are looking for a purchasing type decision, they're doing comparison shopping. People want to look at review sites. That's get crowd software advice Cap Tera. These are sites a you might scrape a or you might be doing for list building. These are on by Gardner, forester and other players in the space. I point is that calls the yelp in the Amazon effect. If we look at yelped before we buy a five dollar breakfast Burrito, we sure as hecker going to look at software advice before we buy a quarter million dollar software. And so it doesn't matter if your website shows up or your brand shows up. The point is that you're discoverable. And so what we help these organizations learn and we measure and we manage for them is how often their brands are showing up when people are searching, because if you're only measuring if your website shows up but Google saying your website isn't going to show up because that's not what our searcher wants, then you're trying to do something that isn't actually feasible. So if you're telling that your client, obviously the client's going to fire you because you didn't do what you said you would. It's nothing to do with your ability as everything to do with your reality. And so we look at the reality of a search engine, the reality of a buying journey, and then we position our clients to be discovered at every point of that, whether there's informational intent or purchase intent, and then we essentially measure that reality funds and time and effort so that our clients drastically increased pipeline and then grow opportunities, deals and revenue. And we've been hyper effective with brands like Zumo, logic and sure well, we're just started working with Betterman. We do everything for all state and Cisco and Samsung and ten cent and, you know, count with Sass companies in the mid markets and enterprise space by helping them essentially be discoverable and from their grow exceptionally. I mean you're in the sales space. We worked with exactly for over two years. When we first start with them, we grew their pipeline by over three hundred percent in the first quarter by just helping them get on review sites and be more discoverable and show up when it mattered, and they're hyper successful. It really does work and that makes perfect sensition. I mean this is I'm moving into a new house now and my wife, he's asking me to buy you a new I was looking for wine fridge. They thought that sounds very, very cliche for a Frenchman, but that you go and I had no idea what a good dwine f Jays and I need exactly what you mentioned. I mean you took the example of Arom Barrito, which our slight, but I went on comparison websites and basically both the frange that I think was pleasing most of the people that like the central to as I do. Right, exactly, go to their website. Right. You just wanted to review site, you learned about and then you went to their website. Yeah, yeah, we marketing in growth. People want people to first go to their website. That's not actually...

...how a purchasing journey works. And so but the problem is is because they can't track how well they're doing another site, they don't value it because they have to report on metrics and because they become so Kypi obsessed and so obsessed on the metrics that they can report on, they don't value the things that are actually going to grow the most important metrics, like opportunities, deals and revenue. And so we try to help educate people and we help them measure in track it using sequel databases and our kind of engineering team to actually show, look, we can actually track those third party sites, show the value and allow you to be a much better demand generation or search marketer and drive opportunities, deals and revenue for your SASS company. Of course, then I'm interesting to us. You want to last question. I that's a wrong marketing attribution. We've got to large pot of all audience. While marketing professionally in software companies, all you know be to be I lovel savvycs type of companies and we often speak to them about marketing attribution and bots running when you do a lot of online stuff, a PR and all that sort of great things. But how can you truckt your investments in brand do the thing and attributed back to marketing after a convulsion into a posts our revenue? You can do it in certain areas, like with you through conversions. So by setting up the script properly, interest you can see you through. But here's what I would argue a we need to just take a deep breath and use comments and sometimes, and the problem is really attributed yet that well, but because we're so desperate to attribute everything, we forget about the value of brand. And what I mean by that is we want to be the largest company, but we don't ever think about being the most wellknown company. You know, it's crazy. Right in two thousand and nineteen we forgot about all the basics of advertising and marketing that have worked so well. The reason why Super Bowl commercials are still a thing, the reason why there we all purchased from brands we recognize. Imagine how much more successful in effective sales development is when you call people and when you say who you are, they've heard of you before like that is a huge factor. Then close rate and a acquisition of new business. Yet because we can't say, oh, which added they see before they saw it. We stopped investing in brand building because we can't measure it perfectly to the deal, and we then invest in higher acquisition channels like Seo and PPC, which I also a hundred percent believe in, but then we d value brand. Right now, my business is getting twenty million impressions for four thousand dollars a month and we've had enterprise brands that we dreamed about fill out our form since launching the campaigns who didn't fill out our form before because they've heard of us now. And not only have they heard of us, when they search for SEO agency, when they search for PBC agency, they find us and now, instead of being the brand they haven't heard of, now are the brand they've seen, they've heard of and has great reviews and now we're able to work with them. They have our positioning right, we have our awareness and it equals revenue generation. The other way, they can track at the rate, because I don't want it to be like you can't track...

...it at all. You can use the view through conversions and you can look at your direct traffic to your brand. So you can go look at direct traffic in Google and see if that's growing ak more people just knowing about you. You can look at a tool like sem rush or a trefs and then search your brand name and see how many people are searching that a month and then you can measure if that goes up or down. There's a lot of ways to do it and I'm actually building a software that will be launching sometime next six months that measures your brand discoverability across versus you and your top two competitors. So you can put in a thousand keywords and see how often your brand shows up, not just your website. So if you show up on somebody else's site, if you show up an ads, if you show up show open shopping campaigns, will be able to measure all of that in the benchmarkt against your competition and every month you'll see if you're becoming more or less discoverable. And I do believe that the future search marketing is making brands discoverable for keywords that people are looking for, and it's going to be a crucial part that is not being valued nearly enough today, and I agree with you absolutely. Under percent what unfortunately we coming to the end of foure. Shame because I probably can't think about another twenty question I can ask you, but you know we need to keep them a shell. If that's you can that we we're just coming out of the attention spam or all the the sell seeming its commute. Love all the right Jodan's, but I want you to thank you for your insight today. Get Right. I really appreciate the defided you to your time to get to get always me and and share all your swords and onto all the question that I get to ask you. If anyone wants to get in touch with you to follow up speak about directive, just as your question about which we discussed today. What's the best way to get hold of you? Yeah, you just go to directive consultingcom and you know we have life chat. We have a form there. You can also email us for new business at sales at directive consultingcom. Do you just want to chat, feel free to connect from on Linkedin or twitter. It's G and then my last named Marygoot across all those platforms. Garrett, Mary, you you'll find me. I'm the only one in the world so love the chat with you. Love to connect answer any questions you have if you're trying to think about how to grow your lead volume or give your sales development team better leads, Potter leads, warmer leads and just grow over overall pipeline at assass company or in an enterprise brand. We would love to support you and the love the chat and see if it's a fit. Sounds Great. Well, many things. Once again, eat. was great to have you unders with today. Guard all right, thank you so much. Right, operatics has redefined the meaning of revenue generation for technology companies worldwide. While the traditional concepts of building and managing inside sales teams inhouse has existed for many years, companies are struggling with a lack of focus, agility and scale required in today's fast and complex world of enterprise technology sales. See How operatics can help your company accelerate pipeline at operatics dotnet. You've been listening to be to be revenue acceleration. To ensure that you never miss an episode, subscribe to the show in your favorite podcast player. Thank you so much for listening. Until next time,.

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