B2B Revenue Acceleration
B2B Revenue Acceleration

Episode · 2 years ago

61: Making Channel Sales Work w/ Dave Davies


Your job title shouldn’t be Partner Account Management — it should be Partner Development. Giving your partners leads isn’t the reason you built the partnership in the first place.

Invest time in teaching them how to prospect effectively and what the ideal client profile looks like

On this episode, I interview David Davies, author and Chief Sales Transformation Officer at Sandler Training

What we talked about:

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You're listening to be to B RevenueAcceleration, a podcast dedicated helping software executives stay on thecutting edge of sales and marketing in their industry. Let's get into the show, welcome to BTB remenue acceleration. Myname is Dancy Brook and I'm here today with David Davis, author and chiefsales transformation officer, Asande training, David Howre, you today yeahI'm good Dan thanks o having Mak good excellent thanks for coming in so atopic for today is making channel Salls work. But before we get into theconversation David, can you please interduce, introduce yourself to theaudience and tell us more about yourself, as well as the company Sondatraining? Of course? Well, my name is Dave Big Davis, Yeahi'm away to Daven.Unless you, my Mam, wer ive in North Sason was David Benself, since onethousand nine hundred and eighty six so can we have to say five years,typinally working in technology and quite often in really en management,AED leadership, technology, sales teams, but it sound an now for Yoas a trainerfor six years and again Yoas you expecto whar the technology businesses,whether that's in startup or Whikor, sparkup Mo hehe been around for a whilein Ave gon from mitstal. They need, as far for a scalet, where they'rephenomnawy good at what they do. They haven't solved ever. I you no ideawhere to start and we wrigt the making channel selves but making chance elswork. Oka. Couple of years ago I was released last year. Socially t expect.Often the companies are working with now either have a channel that, forwhatever reasons become somewhat dysfunctional they'e found ye they'vegot thousands of channel partners, and you know Tou three that are actuallyselling their stuff or theyr. Channel curious, they've, gone out and they'vehad some experience of direct selling and they believe that they gove a greatproposition and het have no idea how to stop building a channel. I have freechannel partners into their world. Okay, excellent, interesting and todave. Youmentioned that you published a book last year, you'll make Cham selvs workwhere you outline he ten tools to create an affective third party sellingprogram. So you share us a bit share a bit more about that book. What peoplecan learn from it, what they' take from it, but also the sort of motivation? Iguess as to led you to writ books. I must I must have mare. It must take alot of work to do so. Yeah, it's Oit was very good. I had a very goodteacher taught me out to wriht write good content switly without worryingabout editing it, because that's what they did. Appose Toi tell you Whi wretethe book first, so we wanted to write sales bothof, my partner nd in Rosin eStacal, markes couchey. We wanted to write a sales book. We looked at ourbookshelves and sout. There's a thousand and one direct sales books onour shelves. Everybody's got some take on on certain direct, and so we thoughtwhat else? What are the Times to salls? We write now and we cite to talk aboutmy career, having built some channels in the businesses that workeing wethought OCAS. There must be lows of bouts on this subject. We found nig twoor any good. The other seven books simply are direct sales books, butwhere the word sails is the UT channel Salles in font of this, it fame,Directon, tats, Clav a', just trying to force deploy into the Channel Weld N.The channel world is completely different, so, okay, so we souht. Weyea found this nice that we were going to write into and you K ow. Generallyspeaking, I was yo no pronounced as the the expert in channel having built one,and then we spent a year interviewing hundreds of channel leaders, channelmanagers, channel people relse. We didn't know actually that much about itand that's how we sattoformd okay, we knew quite a lot about. You know how wedid it, but we didn't know so much about how it was being done and whatthe structured process Te Channel deviopments. We learn quite quicklythat there's not a lot again of training content, thats designed anddelivered to this book. Readers E textbut whis, one of the things I loveabout. It's actually working system in the starts with Yeu that that selectionprocess, your courtship. What is a...

...perfect plant that look like an beforegoing out and looking for that perfect partner, we actulle to take. He look inthe mirror and ask yourself if you've got the attributes of a great partnerere, you ready, Jucki, all the things in place that make you ready to go intopartership with another person Tayshot. What perfect partshit looks like youare: whate are the attributes of good partners for you and your business andwhat industries do they focus on what oes their client base look like? Doesit resonate with your idea what your ideal cliect looks like, so you Giv inpartnership that have your win for the clientate win for the partner and theWien for Your Business. We go TAK that step further. We really help them todesign good channel managers yl we did our interviewt. What we found quitequickly was that a lot of people in the channel everybody, but a lot of peoplein the channel, tended to be failed. Toret sales, people, okay, fairly nicepeople, but were not top performers in the direct sales, well yeah, but lightby the organization, so they ere kept and put into more of a partner theassumption there being that you know it's just a conversation between twopeople, too nice people have Nice Coe Oso than that to be truly Affetiv atChal management, and you really Wan't folr hats any given time a se. You needphenomenal expertise as a direct sales PERSO, because criticism most tendershave of their channel is tha, Wont Thet's Taugh to the en user. I wouldlately talk to my uses. If I didn't trust you and believe you were Werasuccessful professional sales person, the other operates e way. I do yeahyeah anneed great management skills. An they also need to understand that theyare in hee management, but they have no power over the individuals, an managing.So your partners that you're managing in reality Omandying a salesrelationship with you have no decision making power over where you can hirethem. Fire Them. Littl effort on boarding. You have to control theirrewards, their recognition, their accountability. So you have to learn tomanage thatr power, the CURRENTC, if that is influence, haw on influence,other people to trust like believe at you're, doing a great job on theirbehalf or hardshit with, and your good analytic skills, good research skills.It's it's a much bigger subject on I interesting and in terms of that bookyou mention it's written as a textbook. So what's the audience for that, isthat a see of a company looking to really understand and develop thechannel for their first time? Is it? Is it a channel director, that's actuallylooking to to implement a new methodorlogy or bring some new ideasthat they wa wats a general to treaudience its base? I tell you I tellTyo all this re wrote it for- and I guess this is most of my experiences-is growing very small businesses at Uccess, Ol mutireally multinationalyeah. So I was writing it from that guy that just started a technology,business and thought yea. Maybe, alongside my direct cells efforts, Ican stort to go te channel of a great poposition for the channel Ban, thatsit. So it's recenfor for what we call the channel Curiis, those that mightnot yet have developed a channel and we're looking for steps to take tobuilding out an effective channel part of their business. But what you launchO book, Publish Your Work, EA the Ordu changes really quickly, so I've thoughtpeople is some of the largest technology organizations, an the planet.Sending me Fik back and asking me questions on how this stuff works andthey've already got what they would consider to be a well defined channelbusiness. It's just not functioning the way they hoped it would yeah andthey're deploying this system in their business again to to really spark uptheir channel business and understand more about what the responsibility onthem Asevenderis when working with their partners as the becomes a truepartnership. But what many many the fenders, when we talkd to the resellers Inot partship, it's a dictatorshiptheyve been told what to do by overbearing Benda, an overbearing,representive offender for the using the systems, what men hat they're alreadydoing and improve how they wore wit, the partes okay, interesting andthrough the writing of that book, and...

...interviews that you've done to lead tobook being developed. I guess you must have seen a lot of companies beingextremely successful in the general some less successful you actline someof the elements you believer needed or necessary to lead to a successfulchannel program on the flip side. Of that, what would you suggest would besome of the challenges or or the perhaps the number one challenge ouscompany's face when they're trying to bui a channel number and challenge eyface when they build over, they go out to try and build a channel as theybelieve why I think, can mebe three but absolutely absolutely go through it.Yeah. No one. No one problem they'e got is hey're, not ready Y Youe, one of thesingle biggest values you Gron to partnership is your ability to trainthem as if they were one of you weret, because they are want e Yoa. I in RingIm into a partship and then treating them like a competitor, so having astrong onboarding system for your partner, hat's, normally missing, evenin some of the bigger tech companies, a don't know how to bring aparter onboard and get them to the Banquetin Biv debay about this. I think you've gotninety days to get a new partner to the bank and cutting an invoice sellingyoun products before that influenced weigts and their interest wayings andthey're, starting to yoflow with other Veno. That might give them therequicker yeah. So that's one of them. Secondly, we'vecovered thout on boarding piece; they don't they don't bring the right peopleinto manage the channel Andso he little bit tin, Nice, Fitte, really fairallyNice people, the coming ye the harm, the welcomes and coming in, becauseactually they're more like furniture than they are causing any kind ofdisruption. Younow e positive way. As of getting the people motivated to sellthat stuff yeah. So that's you know finding the right partners finding theright people and that's at least I e, especially in the established ones. Theapproach yeas run is off y. The ringing partnersonce a month or even worse, one in particular I work with, was sending anNextel Spreadshi once a month what we called the list of demands: Yea you'rein Partership, without his he you. What have you got for us this month thatyour ringing up and saying what? What have you sold on our behalf this month?But no right to do it? If the expectation isn't sa you're, notinvesting time in that parnership you weekly daily, the find ways to augmentand improve them. Yeah is really horrendous on once a month. What haveyou got for me? Approach to partner, Develope, well partner accountmanagement. We spoke earlier about my my theory that if you take the change,the Word Partner Account Management, O Partner Development, yea that simple,simple change. Os sintax changes the the mindset of the individual theyrealize their job is to develop their partners not to read up and ask demandfrom the business yeah absolutely and just on th. The NIGT. You mentioned earound t a spill of debate around how long you have to get the partner torevenue before maybe they're interest when theyre go and start lookingousewhere in order to help them to get to revenue. What do you think s? A mostimportant sort of element or process you can put in place to support them todo that? Is that is that from a marking, perpective feeding them with leads oropportunities? Is it does that come back to the on boarding where it'sactually just about enabling them a as best as possible? Also your thoughts onthe best tactic or Strasty to get hem to revenue? The first Nagto days,teaching to feed themselves. ACTAL no issue when you're building a party wit,giving the leat hat, doesn't really help them in the long run sure we allknow, we worked emselves for quite a long time that marketing are offandblessed with the the misguidyn criticism of yea. Theseleads are ha nor great yeah or any other word that people life Thag et notgreat with giving them Leadis, it might be a stafter. Actually. The reasonyou've gone into partnership is because they're already working the type ofpeople you want to work, so you need to train them, train their accountdevelopment teams. It probablyy called comp management just to US ofthe. Thisculture count development teams on t e how to how to convey your propositionand get their existing clins interested in what it is that you do. You know ifthis is they're just coming out the...

Gais an you've got to invest time inteaching them how to prospect effectively and what's the ideal clientprofile woul like Helphem, to build some obsession, lists yeah, who warethe people we committed together to going and doing business with what oourapproach, how we're going to get time in their diary and we get time and therDonn. What are we going to do together that turns meto really quiet for Othofthis and to getting those either thirty, second adverse or one twenty secondadverse, because diy couple of minutes to Fgure, like you message and workingtogether on building that value proposition and what is it, what e?What does it do? Aws It benefire yea? How do you measure the benefit so thatthey, you know that that partner's team really comfortable in going out andgenerating business opportunity for you, here's my standing rorts a Chanbel, achannibale partner, Developmer Maager! You must stand in their floor, stand ontheir floor and make calls with them yeah o Goin there and tell them thetheory how to do it. You donnot prospect yourself, don't go, tellanybody else to do yeah. I agree. I agree with Showin. We see, we see itall the time wit some Bour cline setually, and they come in and sit withall toim and they're absolutely shot to be Guite, honest when actually outinwill don'd reach every single prospect that let met pick up the font to, andactually you may make fifty calls or Sen fifty Mosen, not here back so it'santication should never be strategy and developing channel absolutely spectingthem. This is a trouble. Some people decin to go into chto build a channelbecause they can't work out how to sell it. Themselvessgona work, yeah,absolutely and then you're going to rely on the partner hat th, actuallymaybe aren't able, because you haven' enabled yourselvs to do it. So efrustration, fus frustration leads very quickly to angle sure so, you'refrustrated, you can't do you frustrate, they can't do it yeah you get thesehangry interactions between the vendor and the channel. All your the Loweopartners are eany good. That's your responsibility to get the good, nottheres Ye. They got an audience for you if you can't train n how to convey thatmessage simply is crewed and just look yourself in the mirror. If you partner,if your Partneshi, your channel's, not working ever, look in the mirror, askyou o a question whose fougt is it and the answer should always be one hundredpercent course? Yes, absolutely interesting. So you mentioned a fewminutes ago that you've heard back from some mixtremeylologe technologycompanies in asking you about your book and Alsin your opinion on elements ofyour boot and you mentione, there's other venters that are emeging theirsort of patch of that channel curious stage and clearly the differencebetween a large technology company and emerging company is that or anybusiness doesn't have to be technology, but for the purse of this conversation,they're going to have different challenges when building their channel.If you to it's obviously difficult to say precisely what those challengeswould look like, but some of the common thenes that you see between trying tohelp a CHANP, purious business fild, their channel acturally, either helpfuield or ignite the channel for a large company. What e there's some ofthe key differences that you see, Wel the benefit of picking up Wa goodvendor. That's already got some emerging attraction in the MARKAND. Anhis DEVELOPD ome client is: Let's work on the assumption to really takebasiesses aside by experts. Yeah quite often they've never sold before theycome from technology that never solv before why I love about somebodyisnever sow before us. When I teach in my system technology people tend to besystematic in their approach to what they do anyway, yeah you lay a sellingsystem on them versus some cheap tactics and they just follow the systemand the system works. So so that's one of my favorite things Todo, I so soone,then again. So as we started moarount the channel, never done it, no ideawhat to do, and so we do it by the book. So so, in that sense, wefollow the book and we follow a process. It's a wonderful black sheet that weget to work from. We get very sharp about building. I Call Special ForcesUnie approach. Quite often when he organization start to build a channel.They trying to build this land army Wer,...

...trying to get their logo on as manydifferent doors across the THEA MSP network as thiy care. I get logos andYouw Protu pictures on people's website yeah. An it just is feels to me, likeits great unspoken marketing exercise on behalf o the vendors, the morepeople to talk about and stuff. More likely, we are to Oset a TRU relliywhen you're building a channel as your partner shoep hit. In the same way, youbuild a special forces, you special sportagin fen to be a collecton, a veryspecially designated individuals, each with their own specialist skillwaysyeah. Each an trained to a very, very high standard hand pick offer from acollection of people a are available to as the best in their field. You putthat group together and they work as a team work off each other special forces.You now proach the channel was finding really really works, so he figure.Organizations in working wit now were in deploying my scarce system wel. Thatis when you look at your partner network of thousands, you got some. Youwant to keep theyre. Never going to set the world right of their self you onceor twice a year. You know that and don' need a lot of time invested in them.Maybe a bit of nurturing you've got an acquisition lest youare. The partnersthat you really wish were on your list. Youhat should be no more than twentyfive companies by the way of any size of company. Okay, an get obsessed overa small list of prospects will be much more effective in your prospectiveapproach. Yeah just truin a resurect, so they mayhave been a partner of yoursfor a while. That probably was successful when the way you want etback an expand is that development group, probably the top twenty percentof your partners that are performing you know it doesn't matter how wellthey're performing you can do more to help them get more an the ES. Mostpeople, don't like the scarce system, has an essence start it sack. You mustmust look at thoter Greenfield partners, evelopent Lycodisn, because you hadTini bat sure, but if you've been in this game for a while, eighty percentof your part of the community probably is am Performan Y A and at least thebottom. Twenty percent should be lat, go yeah in as polite man as you can andtell Hem it's your fault by the way, because you have to build a good system,that's enable them to grow their business en muts, come away from youand, as you bring those parters away, it's inthe case of replacing them withsome of those Hampit parters in Youve identified on that that Lis o twentyfive Tye anser questions, maybe because it may be true that you have built thisland army and you've got hundreds of partners yeah and you don't needhundreds of parters and you Wen specialists yeah, you might find athat.Twenty specialists have already pron you pre preregistered themselves, as aspecialist in public sector, or especially I in the NHR or a specialistin Bankin, Tham, finanre or o specialist in Manufacturi Soy. Thinkabout those twenty parts of very clear audience that they work with AghparteThet Woy and I personally I'd rather have and take the knower approach of toin each category and Ter, very small, very tight Parto, the negwortsacannvest almost obsess over my investment ene and growing theirbusiness and then having hundreds, a I've really speak to rarely touch,don't do a lot for, but how you got a wedd on next week. I cont yeahabsolutely well. I think we see that happen right across the technologyspectrum, so that all makes sense to me and in terms of that sort of goes on tothe next question, which is around. We spoken about what's needed or what'snecessary to help vendors, build a good partner community in and build a strongchannel. You've obviously been in the in the industry a long time and musthave helped a lot of organizations, build up successful channel programs inthe UK ind Europe. What ar some of the key points that the organization shouldbe looking at as they're looking to build a successful channel putroundboth in the UK, but also then, as you scale, into new regions hat? Of courseyou have the cultural differences. You have language differences, you havedifferent ways of selling and everything like that. What is somethingthat keep want to the organization should be looking out for. Well, Ithink some of what you just just...

...isolated. Some of the first thing Yoshould be looking out for is the that work work here excuse I have to work for the wildtogt largestY souvs of leadership, training, Orgalization, N Er system is deployedin twenty two languages across two hundred and twenty locations. Quite alot from in the US cot of Ande Ukn. Quite a lot of marine Europe and th yeabring the local language with the system of human interact. Ond doesn'tchange that much yeah, so you definitely got to appreciate theculture theugh I mean you, don't don't send the wrong person into territorybecause it will be scorched earth by the time of you have to rescue them asimpull them back in aget yeah, so be conscious of the type of Peolto thatwell, they must understand their locam industry and the style of the type ofpeople, the way they behave and communicate in that sense. Watch forthe excuses. This won't work here that won't work here that isn't done thatway, because some of that is just a yeah absolutely and is that somethingthat you've seen in the past a lot of where organizations have maybe got asuccessful channel, groramit in, say, nouth America, it's is developed. Well,is successful, the partners are selling, but actually they try to apply almostexactly the same model in Europe and it's just not working you've had tostart again. There are subtle teasers you track travel. Having builtbusinesses on on all five continents, not the two Poles yet NCMSACKT. There is ta sense of whatwhat work there doesn't always work here, so you have got to be aware ofwhat's happening in the market and you have got, I think, to bring in or buyinexpertise, even if they're, a third party to before you go into theterritory, understand what's happening in that space, not the excuses, but thetruth was happening. I their pace with the Marki look like what's growing,what's declining that Youre, really getting some comful understanding, likesaid, if you come in, there's somebody who's trying to build lamd army andthen certainly your land, Arbeland stomping, all over their ground, anyou're going to get resistance, they'e, goingto fight you back. No, nobodywants a US company storming into a mior with the one size fit the worldapproach. Yeah and equally you BRICHIS businesses drove sometimes to go to theUS and get themselves tarted or they deside or Alwe. Seen some traction inGermany. It' just go to gem. Do the same thing we did here: Men Trot, youwouldn't go for two weeks on Hollo a a certain parts of your you might getaway with it, but you wouno go on a cultural holiday and not embrace someof the local language or yeah just to keep yourself around and faith morethan anything else. Ortipan our line to work out. Hang it out to an order. AfBeer. First, then food. They don' have a friend, Prioriti othat you do have.You do have to work it through an again if you're ginto go and build. I partter network in Europe and start with one ideal partner, really invest yourtime in them and Givem M expoicivity that that cost a lot more money thanmost people, Charte or exclusivity Tink, one that you think is an idal partnerand work with them for a year before opening it up. We have to be clear withthe matfronts at the expectation we want to give you, prime, in thisterritory sure and we're going to Briagh a lot of stuff to help you groatut. We want you to help us O, translate it into o local market. Okay,interesting! Well, theyv, really appreciate you all your insight, its Sr.It's been an interesting conversation at New Perspective for me, certainly onCertin, certain elevants of general development and the different size oforganizations just about reaching the end of our conversation here. So ifanyone wanted to get in touch with yourself or sonretraining no more aboutit, continue the conversation offline, how woud they suggest to do both thatget in touch with yourself, but also sognd the training. Well, wherever youare in the world, there's a sounder train where I can introduce you tooquickly. Youcal troduce, you to fo the person locally, but I'm getting hold ofme. easist way to find me is on Linton, I'm David, W davs or David Davys Dash,making chance sells work if you're...

Gointo, Goin Searchin, my name AntapeDavid Davis in I should be the first one that comes up all the all theEnglish MP is one. You can call me my mobile, which is plus forty four travel.Seven three thre ine, seven, eight ones, a eight one- zero, but YEA incarriage,most spops- to follow me on Le Ten. It's a easiest way to find me get algeme excellent, great. Well, appreciate that day. Once again, it's been greatame on Tor Wel, thanks having me Dan much appreciateid operatics has redefined the meaning ofrevenue generation for technology companies worldwide, while thetraditional concepts of building and managing inside sales teams in househas existed for many years, companies are struggling with the lack of focus,agility and scale required in today's fast and complex world of enterprisetechnology sales see how operatics can help your company accelerate pipelineat Operatics, dot net you've been listening to b, to be revenueacceleration to ensure that you never miss an episode subscribe to the showin your favorite podcast player. Thank you so much for listening until nexttime.

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