B2B Revenue Acceleration
B2B Revenue Acceleration

Episode · 4 years ago

7: How To Hire Team Members That Fit Your Culture w/ Ludi Martin


Hiring the right people can make or break your organization.

But hiring on technical skills alone is an outdated way of thinking.

Ludi Martin is a EMEA Talent Acquisition Consultant at Cyber Business Resource, and her job is to deliver industry experienced talent. She comes from seven years experience in talent acquisition working with major security vendors and system integrators.

She combines her expertise and experience to bring people to teams with the right cultural fit.  In this episode of B2B Revenue Acceleration, we speak with Ludi about getting in the right hiring mindset, coachable employees, and the importance of prioritizing cultural fit.

The moneytoring sintive is very important, but Canni days, nowadays, they want a little bit more than that. They want to see future. You know, we talked about careers, not jobs anymore. You're listening to BB revenue acceleration, a podcast dedicated helping software executive stay on the cutting edge of sales and marketing in their industry. Let's get into the show. Hi, welcome to be to be a Roman your acceleration or earlier with you, and may guess, today is lady Martin from Saber Business Resource. How are you today? To Day, I'm really, really good. Thank you. How are you? Very good. Thank you very, very good. So today, today we wanted to speak about quite an interesting topic because I think this is slightly your friend from the type of resourcing or recruitment conversation at with good and that, to pic, is higher character train skills. And before we go into too much details or explain that the content or the purpose of the conversation today, can you please give us a little bit more backgrounders by yourself and Saber Business Resourcing, please? Yes, of course. So, cyber business resource is a sister company of Cyber Business Growth that was created by Jennie Murphy, I'm sure you know and understand you had a podcast as well, obviously before. It is perfect timing. So cyber business resource is a consulting organization. We deliver industry experience talents. So my background in particular, I come from about seven years experience in talent acquisition functions. I have worked for major security vendors and system integrators and basically are now combined in my own experience and the the experience of the consultants part of Cyber Business Resource and cyber business growth to deliver consulting services in security space. Okay. So in terms of services that we deliver as part of Cyber Business Resource, you know we're talking about contingency recruitment, retained searches, talent acquisition as a service or pure consulting to help, you know, organizations build talent attraction strategies. Okay, to help effectively bring the right people on board with the rights, you know, cultural feel absolutely that makes perfect sense. So I just wanted to dive into the topic of the conversation today. We know that what it comes to Sab or security, but also some mos our domain and I think it's be to be software serves in general, there is a big shortage in term of skills, and I don't know if it's because there is not enough sales people or technical people, are marketing people, or simply because there is too many technology companies that are coming about. But we often spoke about investing in people's worth, the right attribute, the right character, rather than people who already, you know, plug and play. So people who work the experience and and people we would have the right skill set to get going. Based on your experience, do you believe that it's a ring people based on that person any year and the way they interact, of that character, rather than based on their...

...niqual skiers and experience? I would say, I would hundred percent degree that it's worth hiring people based, you know, on their personality, character, they're actually utes, and their hunger, yeah, versus, you know, their skill set, because I think that there's number of skills that you can learn anyway every day. I mean, you know, you and I, we learned something new every day for each and everybody does. However, you know, you don't really learn to be hungry for something to be driven. So skills, in my view, can always be improved and experience and knowledge. You know, it's great, but that appetite to learn and to progress, in my view, is paramount. Chut so in a lot of instances, and I see every day, you know my function, people only higher on experience. So say, for example, if they're done, if, as such, candidate doesn't have x or y type of experience, I don't even want to see them shut and you touched on it. You know there's there's a skill shortage, you know, in the industry, in BTB, you know, software and in security in particular. That's definitely my bag. It's a huge market. There's loads of companies out there and everybody's pretty much fishing in the same pond and it's that the pond is not getting bigger. Ye, therefore, in my view, hiring solely on experience is a little shortsighted and certainly not scalable. Okay, looking only at at a skill set is not going to be enough, you know, for a company to meet the growth. You know that their objectives in as far as how much they want to grow. So the mindset is slowly shifting, you know. We can see. I speak to a lot more managers now that, you know are interested in a little bit more than the cold hard skills, but not enough in my viewing. Okay, I think they're still progressed to be made, but when a position where companies don't necessarily have the choice, it will have to happen anywhere, because there is a eno of correct but he is not enough people skilled. So I would you get those skills up to speed? I guess it would be, because the concept of what you're talking strubting, I completely agree with you. Do the way we recruited operatics is we contruly recruit based on skills, because what we do is really specific. I don't think we see any competitors full in the same methodology as all. So we can of need to build our people more them into operatics kind of, you know, methodology. So we're really big on my ring, the the kind of mindset, the characters of the type of individual, rather than looking at the CV or looking at that past experience. These are important, greateria and sometimes a plus, but we can just bank on that. However, we sometimes many difficult to get people up to up to speed and develop their skill set. So do you guys have a process you go through? Do you have a time frame that you can share with us or just give us a little bit of information about how you see it happening and and the sort of pain frame you would take to get someone up to speed. Okay, well, I think it's a two weeight process. You know, you can. I think it's you can ascertain someone's up tid and hunger and willing willingness to join an organized tion like like yours. Yeah, I think it's also very easy to work out who is right after that's probably easier and the other...

...way around. So you can easily, more easily, I would say, crossoft. You know people are they they that's just not going to work out culturally. In terms of process, you know what, as I said, you know it's a two way street, so you know what's in it for them as well as what's in it for you, and looking at solely what the candidate is going to bring to your organization is not enough. You know, you need to demonstrate and be able to articulate. Okay, so, if you were to join, you know, our company, this is what it's going to look like. You know, this is the evidence we've got of coaching people, of developing yeah, such hiring manager has hired x many people and now look at where these people are. Exactly what we do. So from wold, from within gross within exact money, and be able to demonstrate that and articulate that as a message to the candidate, because that makes it, you know, a great value proposition. Yeah, not just well, obviously you know the monitorings and tio is very important, but canidates nowadays they want a little bit more than that. They want to see, you know, a future. You know we're talking about careers, not jobs anymore, and being able to you know, to articulate that in that message is this is it sounds like you're doing all you know, all the right things, but you can't put time on it. You know, it's up to you know what your organization needs to do as well and to achieve you build, you know their progression, you know towards that to achieve whatever goal you need to achieve. So it's trill your tallenge management process. For us, about on dust, on the thing. It's almost like a reverse process. Voice. So Care Rael like that person. I think they've got the right mindset, they've got the writer teacher, they would fit very well with the culture. But maybe are the skills that are missing and then you would almost help them to feel the gap on the skill sets. Okay, that makes sense. And and what would you as as another tricky question, I guess, but one of the fine interestings, I would what would be the main characteristic? What you think are the main and I don't know if we should call them characteristic, I don't know if we should call them qualities, but what is the most important trait of character that you think we should look at when our in someone? Okay, in my view, beyond, you know, track records, you know, and evidence of success, because that's kind of, you know, obvious, how they learn and whether they are coachable. Yeah, so coachability is the number one trait that filing we talk about every day with us a number one. We always say, do they have a sponge or do they have a stone between their heirs? If they've got a spawns, we can carry on the conversation. If they've got a stone, while that's going to be difficult because we can do anything with them. They will know better than you. They will know better than you, they wan't want to know. Absolutely think, absolutely so these two traits. You know that for me to appetite to learn and how they go about learning and how they go about in improving themselves? Can they articulate, you know, what what journey they want to be on? You know what they want to achieve out of their next move? Just INEM I'm sorry to interrupt you, because it's very interesting topic and we always ask the we we are being as ask the question, sorry, of how would you assess the coachability? So do you have a technique to assess it? I mean, we've got twice, so I'll tell you the details of it, but I would you go about it for more senior role, you know, because obviously I'll tell you...

...about the way we go about it. We do a role play, you know, will do okay, les, let's put ourselves into a cell situation. Here you are trying to get, I don't know, a meeting with me, or you're trying to close a deal with me. I am the prospect. There you go, we start and after that we just sell cat, or you think you did. And if this was I think I've done very well. I think I was excelled. Wow, that's not go chimble. Yeah, is this a well, I think I've done well, but some points I think I may have lost a little bit of your attention and you know I'd like to get your feedback because it's very difficult to put me in those pot etc. Etc. That's much more coachable if someone was looking for feedback, someone wants to listen to the feedback that you've gotten, someone who wants to almost have that that sort of near effect. But how would you go about it when it's a more strategic role, when you can't really just pull a role play with someone who's got, you know, twenty five yours experience in marketing cells or selves engineering? I guess obviously you like example, is great in terms of new life, example. You know you can see straight away, yeah, that you know they they'll be right or not, and nothing that's that's great. For more experienced roles you can't do quite exactly the same, but it's not through you know, it's a few questions that you assess that coachability is throughout a recruiting process. So the most senior the role, you'd expect there will be more than one step. So that would be the different. Absolutely you know that the process you were talking about. Therefore, you can ascertain just how the approach to conversation you know, are they asking questions? Are they interested? Are they asking for your feedback? What do you think? You know, how do I rank, you know, in your view, in your experience? Are they interesting in knowing, you know, feedback on their own selbsolutely and for me, for me that's great. That's a great tick in the box. You know someone that just wants, you know, feedback, and I can actually take it and I should. I interest in the conversation, that interest in the position. So yeah, it's Max Sense and also willingness to do something better and to improve, which is, you know, basically pretty they do want to learn about how to do it. Therefore, you know, that's a great coach, coachability kind of piece that we can well can uncover here. But but yeah, there's no magic recipe and fortunately, kind of fuction of feeling and askin question, ascitating astame goes by and through the process to so much a bit they dive got a much ready to the art to receive the feedback. So, coming back to my original question, because I kind of interrupted, you're going to bit excited about that on sir, because it's important to us, but he's on yours. A main qualities, our main trait of characters we discuss about from the culchability that you think are absolutely key and things that we should all be looking for in the in the recruitment process. Well, for me that's definitely paramount. But also, you know, consistency and great so in roles like in sales positions, you know, you need to have that resilience. Yeah, and that's a quality that you need to have. Ad Need to have that, you know, in any role, if a special the level or you know or the you know, the function you're in or the level of seniority. Demonstrate that consistency and that great through challenges.

You know what you have done, how did you do it? And you can also gage on the coachability aspect through those questions to so you know what mistakes, what challenging have they gone? Have they come through? What they do, what did they learn about it? What did that teach them and how they applied it, you know, in new scenario today. So yeah, so it's a it's a combination. It's not it's not easy. You know, I think it's it's actually what we find for self. We find it more difficult Wi people who were limited past experience. You almost need to find that great or to find that pass ever, and so you'll just peep what full on the floor, stand up, does that shoulder and carry on a game and try again and keep on trying. Sometimes the way we assess it, in a very rough way, is it's about their personal life. You know, if they coming from a I've had a break in their life and that's something quite tough in their personal life at a young age of recently, and and I remember when day interviewing again just crashes caut he came to interview with seven broken ribs and I found that's really good because you know, I'm so well. This is the sort of attitude we want. Ninety percent we have court to cancel. We just came you and see anything. So you don't want to be interview because I really want to job up. But they had a care crush and that's probably just that you should and again, as you said, that grid at perseverance probably gave him the job and I think it's really important. The other thing that he's big for us and I'm sure for all your clients is that cultural fits. You know, we are an organization, we have a DNA. I would not say that all people are clones. You know, we've got lots of different personalities, but we've got that sort of culture and it's often difficult, or what we are from our crimes, is difficult, to find people that share the same mindset or the same culture. How do you go about what? First of all, defining that and assisting that in the process as well, because it's also very difficult just through a quite yeah, yeah, absolutely. So, basically, without you know, that combined background in cybersecurity and having worked from within. You know all of our consultants. They worked in some part of the organization at some point, you withinside a business growth or withinside a business resource. So that already kind of puts us in the prime position to be able to help organizations ascertain that. Yeah, it's difficult to do from the outside when you just know a little an idea of the organization itself, but it's really more when you start knowing the person they actually going to hire those individuals. So for INS, for instance, candidates join an organization based on, you know, values and vision, also whether they see if those values and visions are being translated and lived through by the person who actually hides them's, for instance, in my dree it's not one way streets. You know, need you need to think about who is hiring and why, what we touched on earlier. You know, you can have a great candidate that is, you know, super coachable, hungry to learn how, all that grit and all that, all those good stuff, but if the higher manager isn't a great...

...coach, then it's never going to work out. So when I speak to a higher manager looking for something or other, what I want to ask them is, okay, so what's a great bay working for you? Why should people join your team? Absolutely, as an individual, that's a good break. How have you developed a team members? You know well they now you know what is your evidence of success? And you'll find that they find it a very difficult conversation to have because no one necessarily ask that question and you can't expect that cultural fit coming just from the candidate and to work it out for themselves. You have to give something, and you said the scene, and for me this is how you can find, you know, the right cultural fits, but having conversations both sides and not just, you know, one lay sends out the candidate. You probably also get the air ring manager of the person who was airing to actually think a little bit more correct absolutely to get them to change their mind about what they're looking for. When you think those from this questions, because the reason why I'm asking you we we often as the question when we get to a process with a new client and we're okay, well, what's the value of spending one of what with you? Someone meets, meet with yourself, see what is the value and then tell us that you're going to give them a dim or don't tell them that. Don't tell that you would. You would tell them more about your solutions and because that's that's the basy. If you have to meet someone, which is the value of spending? When I Wur with you, they also finding difficult and in that process of thinking, often the change the way they want to be able. They would change the way to do the presentation or they would change the structure for meeting. And so what actually, maybe we should start with an open conversation, put lived a lopped up in the bag and it's only when we get to the stage of doing a demo that we take a lepped about and do a demo. Rather, I'm just starting and not really interacting and just going through some boring slaves or a demo. So do you have the same sort of scenario when when you as this question, and probably question that people are not expecting to get from you, then they change lately their mind time off, what they're looking for, the type of individual, and help you to open that sort of okay, we need to are the character Ros and this cute sense? Yes, yeah, absolutely, and you see that the conversation changes, the level of the conversation, station goes, you know, upper level, because when you start talking about a position, you know it's basically shopping list. I need this, this, this is this in this. Okay. So now let's take us step back and look at who are you? You know who, what's your backgrounds? What's have you done? You know what's so great, and then you can leverage that. You know with the candidates standpoint. You know where they're coming from because again, you know, you can't work how the culture fit with a few questions, unfortunately. You know it has to be that you know much more in depth conversation, also understanding from the candidate, where you know who was a great boss to them? Yeah, who worked out, who got the best out of them? Yeah, what the they do. What did they say? So you were, you know, successful in that position? Or is it just down to you? And then we'll go back down the coach say exactly what reality see. So it's a it's so intelle, okay. Always it down to what the entire Ange you did and made you young, made you do certain things that made your success. So you'll find it's...

...a very into far more interesting conversation than just, you know, putting down the list of job skills and whatever. Let's question. I have good for his again, maybe a bit of a tricky one, and I will ask you far an opinion rather than a fact. But from your perspective, what walks to best? With be the manager that can teach the skills and mentor and Really Walk Together, always their team, or will be more like the manager had let the people at the recruity just be, and then maybe you'll be not be distant, but a bit more. They are being recruited, they are probably paid a lot of money, but Scali for the your job and the most senior one. So let them be and let them do that stuff. So which one do you see being the most successful? I'm not talking about macro management of or being very you known, toup of people and too much. I'm talking more about the person's wants to spend a lot of time. So, in a sense, is the manager, would say to you to that question, but with a love from you. And Yeah, I've lots of people exeter except right, and I'm really on top of my team and I will speak to them every day and I will want to know exactly what's happening and I want to be very close to them. More successful the person is a bit more decent. And so actually my management style is and that people do getch up with them once a week. Don't want to have too many interaction. Don't want to be in their way. I don't think neither is the excess for approach. Which is the best one? Well, it's a combination of both. Okay, you know, you can't. It depends who you're hiring. You know, if you hire on experience again, which is what we covered earlier, then that experience comes at a price tag. Therefore, there's an expectation that the person will be able to go and do their own thing. But you really would expect at least yeah, you you would expect that, but at the same time you know, is it enough? Is it interesting enough for someone to just, you know, just going and do their job? Do they would not expect, you know, some interaction learning from the manager? So again, you know, it depends what we want the outcome to be. And the same, you know, the other side, when you hiring less experience people, you expect they will need a lot of coaching and development, but not to the point where it becomes, you know, suffocating. So I see it depending on what the outcome needs to be. Obviously you want to be build successful teams. I think it's a combination of both. Way You've got, you know, if you're not hiring experienced people, you need to be on top of what's happening, but at the same time let people, let people be absolutely successful, you know, of their own back kind of that's consistent to wasting cronization, I guess. With people, and you, you, you as the a ring manager, you need to adapt to almost to the mentality and the requirement and the way of working of the people you're recruit okay, that makes a lot of time. I'm really enjoid the conversation to then. Thank you very much for your insight. Now, if people wants to get in touch with you, lady. What's the best way to get in touch with Ludy Martin? Great? Well, I'd love that. You know, I'd love to hear you know from people that I listen to this podcast and want to get in touched with CIDER business resource. The best ways to reach out to me personally on Linkedin, your Ludy martain or y now, Ludy dot Martin and Cyber Business Resourcecom, or via website three w dot side of business resourcecom.

Okay, very, very good. Well, that's great. Thank you very much for a time we do today was really insightful. I really appreciate you take good time to meet with me and speak with me and hopefully would have someone's up to big to discuss. We get on in the afford shop right. Thanks very much for your time. Really enjoyed it. Thank you. operatics has redefined the meaning of revenue generation for technology companies worldwide. While the traditional concepts of building and managing inside sales teams inhouse has existed for many years, companies are struggling with a lack of focus, agility and scale required in today's fast and complex world of enterprise technology sales see how operatics can help your company accelerate pipeline at operatics dotnet. You've been listening to be tob revenue acceleration. To ensure that you never miss an episode, subscribe to the show in your favorite podcast player. Thank you so much for listening. Until next time.

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