B2B Revenue Acceleration
B2B Revenue Acceleration

Episode · 3 years ago

7: How To Hire Team Members That Fit Your Culture w/ Ludi Martin

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Hiring the right people can make or break your organization.

But hiring on technical skills alone is an outdated way of thinking.

Ludi Martin is a EMEA Talent Acquisition Consultant at Cyber Business Resource, and her job is to deliver industry experienced talent. She comes from seven years experience in talent acquisition working with major security vendors and system integrators.

She combines her expertise and experience to bring people to teams with the right cultural fit.  In this episode of B2B Revenue Acceleration, we speak with Ludi about getting in the right hiring mindset, coachable employees, and the importance of prioritizing cultural fit.

The Mony Treinson to is very importantbut Kenny days. Nowadays they want a little bit more than that. They want toto see future. You know we're talking about careers, not jobs, anymore, you're, listening to be to b revenueacceleration, a podcast dedicated helping software executives stay on thecutting edge of sailes and marketing in their industry. Let's get into the show, I welcome to be to be a rovenieacceleration. Orlyn WITHG and my guest today is ready, marting from SaberBusiness Resource R youtudality, and we we good. Thank you. How are you verygood? Thank you very, very good. So today Wedo, we want you to speak aboutquite an interesting topic, because I think it's is lightly different fromthe type of resourcing or recruitment conversation that we've got and thattopick is higher character, traind skills and before we go into too muchdetails, I explain the content or the purpose of the conversation today. Canyou please give us a little bit pop backgrounas by yourself and Sablrebusiness resourcing place? Yes, of course, so siber business resource is asister company of Savor Business Growth and Thar was created by Jennu Marphy.That 's sure you know and understand you had a podcast as well. I wess EALY, which is perfect tim in so sivebusiness resource, is a consulting organization. We deliver industry,experience talents so my background. In particular, I come from about sevenyears experience in talent acquisition functions. I have worked for majorsecurity, vendors and system integrators and basically I now combinemy own experience and the experience of the consultants, part of Sivet business,resource and Siver business growth to deliver consulting services, indsecurity, space, okay, so in terms of services that we deliver as part of Side business resource, you know we're talking about contingency recritments,retain searches, talent, acquisition as a service or pure consulting to help.You know organizations build talent, attraction strategies, okay, to helpeffectiu bring the right people on board with the rights you know, Cultura,absolutely. That makes perfect sense. So I just wanted to dive into t e theTPIC of the conversation today. We know that when it comes to Sav Bou security,but also SOMOSO domain- and I think it's bit to be soft, twelve ther ingeneral, there is a big shortage, interm of skis- and I don't know ifit's, because there is not enough serious people or technical people, oremarketing people or simply because there is too many technogy companiesthat are coming about. But we often spoke about investing in peoples whohave the right attribute the right character Ras when people we alreadyyou know plugin play so people have the experience and and people would havethe right skill set to get going. Based on your experience, do you believe thatit's Wat iy ring people base on thei personality and the way the interractor that character Rasher than based on...

...their technical kires? And theexperience I would say I would hundred percent agree that is worth hiringpeople based. You know on their personality character, their actual vusand their hunger yeah versus you know their skill set, because I thinkthere's a number of skills that you can learn any way. Every day I mean youknow you and I we learn something new every day, fring AE talers. However,you know you don't really learn to be hungry, for something to be driven, soskills, in my view, can always be improved and experiencing knowledge youknow its great, but that appetite to learn and to progress in my viewisparamount truck. So in a lot of instances that I see everyday, you knowmy function. People only hire on experience to say, for example, ifthey're done. If such candidate doesn't have x or Whie tohave experience, Idon't even want to see them shot and you touched on it. You know, there'sthere's a skill shortage. You know in the industry in BTB, you know softwareand insecurity in particular. That's definitely mad bait's, a huge market,there's loads of companies out there and everybody's pretty much fishing inthe same pond and it's tha the fond is not getting bigger. Therefore, in myview, hiring solyon experience is a little shortsighted and certainly notscalable. Looking oarly at at a skill set is not going to be enough. You knowfor a company to meet the growth. You know that theyre objectives in as faras how much they want to grow, so the mindset is slowly shifting. You know wecan see. I speak to a lot more managers now that you know are interested in alittle bit more than the cold hard skills, but not enough, in my view, Out, I think they're still progresse to be made, but in a position wherecompanies don necessarily have the choice, it will laft work but anyway,because there isn't enough correct, but he is not enough. People scared, sohowod you get. Those kares up to speed, I guess is, would be because theconcept of what you're talking troby Ir, completely agree with you. The way werecruit Ed Oporatics is we cantrally recruit base on skills, because what weis very specific, I don't think we see any competitors for in the samemethodology as ou, so we kind of need to build out people more damn intooperatics kind of you know. Methodology so were very big on Yrinde. The kind ofmine sed character, the type of individual, rather than looking at theCV or looking at the bast experience. This are important, Criti and sometimesOPPRESSD, but we can' just bank on that. However, we sometimes feen it difficultto get people up to to speed and developed US kill set. So do you guyshave a process Ho go through? Do you have a time frime that you can showwith us or just give us a little bit of information about how you see ithappening and the sort of Spaim from you would take to get someone up tospeed? Okay? Well, I think it's a two weight process. You know you can, Ithink it's you can ascertain someones Actie, an hunger and willingwillingness to join an organization like like yours, yeah. I think it'salso very easy to work out who isn't right? Absolut, that's probably easier.He en the other way round, so you can...

...easily more easily. I want say crossoff.You know people what they think. That's just not going to work out culturallyin terms of process. You know what, as I said, you know its. It's a two waystreet, so you know what's in it for them as well as, what's in it for youand looking at sorely what the candidate is going to bring to yourorganization is not enough, you know you need to demonstrate and be able toarticulate okay. So if you went to join, you know our company. This is what it'sgoing to look like. Even this is the evidence we've not of coaching peopleof Developing Yumple. Such hiring manager has hired as many people andnow look at where these people are exactly what we do so from Wat fromWitin Grossbe Englis taany and be able to demonstrate that and alticulate thatas a message to the candidate Beas, that makes it you know a great valueproposition yea, not just well. Obviously you know the Monytreensan tois very important but Kennydays. Nowadays they want a little bit morethan that they want to see. You know future. You know we're talking aboutcareers, not jobs, anymore and being able to know to articulate that in thatmessage is, this is sounds like you're doing all you know all the right things,but you can't put a time on it. You know is up to you know what yourorganization needs to do as well and to achieve you build, you know theirprogression. You know towards that, achieve whatever go you know, Yoon'tneed to achieve, so it's really or talent management process. Woras aboutondostanding is almost like a reverse process. Wor Its okay, real. Like thatperson, I think they've got the right mind. Seid they've got to writ Erteachyouand. They would fit very well with the culture but maybe yarl theskills that are missing, and then you would almost eld them to feel the gapon the skill, San Right. That makes sense and end what would Yousi anototricky question aguess but e one of the find interesting SA. I would what wouldbe the main Characterisic, what you think of the main- and I don't know ifWEU should call them characteristic. I don't know if we should call themqualities, but what is the most important trade of character that youthink we should look at whenoring, someone? Okay, in my view beyond youknow, track records. You know and evidence of success because that's kindof you know obvious how they learn and whether they are coachable yeah. Socoach ability is the number one trait that maining we we wwalk about everyday way, thees a number one. We we say to the other sponge or the other stoinbetween their airs. I, if they'v got O spone, we can carry on the conversationif they've got to stod. Well, that's going to be difficult because we can'tdo anything with them. They will know better than you. They wont a Beser ThanYou. They won't want to know absolutely thing absolutely so these two traits.You know that for me, Tha appetite to learn and how they go about learningand how they go about improving themselves. Can they articulate youknow what what journey they want to be on? You know what they want to achieveout of their next move, just in Te, I'm sorry to interupt you, because it'svery interesting to pick an and we always ask. We are being asked toquestion sorry of how d you assess to coachability. So do you have atechnique to ASEII mean we've got well so I'll tell you the detais of it, buthow ow would you go about it for more...

Senor Role? You know because, obviouslyI'll tell you about the way we go about it. We do a role play. You know we'lldo Okaye, let's put ourselfe into a Sol situation. Here you are trying to getout no a meeting with me ar you're trying to Cros a deal with me. I am theprospect there you go with top and then after that which is okay or D, youthink you did and if this war, I think I've done very well. I think I wasexcelled. Wlow, that's not good! Shibel Yeah! Is this a well? I think I've donewell, but some points. I think I may have lost a little bit of yourattention and you know I'd like to get your fit back, because it's verydifficult you put me in those potecestfor, etc. That's much morecouchable. I someone wis woking for fedback. Someone wants to listen to thefetbag that you got and someone wants to almost havethat sort of neuro effect.But how do you go about it when it's a more strategy? Crowel when you cantralyjust pull a role play with someone who's got? You know twenty five yoarsexperience in marketing selds or Cesin genering. I guess obviously you thatexactly is great in terms of Yohe life example. You know you can see straightaway tyether, you know they they'll be right or not, and I think that's that'sgreat fo more experienced row. You can't do quite exactly the same, butit's not through your a few questions that you assess that coach ability isthroughout Ar refruitming process. So the more senior the role you expectthere will be more than one step: Yeu Ksow. That would be the difference.PROBABLYT. You know with the process you were talking about. Therefore, youcan ascertain just how the approach to conversation you know. Are they askingquestions? Are they interested? Are they asking for your feetback? What doyou think you know? How do I rank? You know I youl view in your experience.Are they interesting in knowing you know, feed back on their own Sabsoluteyand for me, for me, that's great, that's a great tick in the box. Youknow someone that just wants. You know feedback and I can actually take it,and I should I interest in the conversation the interest in theposition so yeah it's mixens and also willingness to do something better andto improve, which is you know, basically treat they do want to learnabout how to do it. Therefore, you know that's a great i'mable coach, cohibtkind of piace thet can wer can an cover here, but but yeah there's no magicrecipe. Unfortunately, aconopotion of feeling an asking question assetatingas tame goes by and through the process, you se how much a Piti they've got OMUCredit thear to to receive the fedback. So, coming back to my original question,because I kind of Interruptd you ie gin to bet excited about it, Onso it'simportant to us, but iten you to main quaitis or main trait of characteras.We discuss apout from the cucubility that you think are absolutely Keyan andthing that we should all be looking for in the in the recruitment process. Well,for me, that's definitely paramount, but also no consistency and correct. Soinrolls like in self positions. You know you need to have that resilienceyeah and that's a quality that n you need to have. I think you need to havethat. You know in any role, ou respect, ot the level or you know othe. You knowthe function you're in of the level of Senority, demonstrate that consistencyand that grit through challenges. You...

...know what you have done, how did you doit and you can also gauge onthe coach ability aspect through those questionsto so you know what mistakes, what Chalgein have they gone? Have they comethrough once they wanted to learn about it. What did that teach them and howthey applied? You know in new scenari e, so yeah. So it's a combination. It'snot it's not easy. You know, and I think it's actually what we find forourselves. We find it more difficult which people have limited plasticpients. You almost need to find that greater to find that passiveer, and soyou just people a full on the floor, stand up. Does that short do and carryon a gane and try again and keep on trying sometimes the way we acessit ina very rough way it's about the Posonar life. You know av they coming from ayou know: Ive thed, a break in their life and there's something quite toughin their personal life. At a young age or recently, and- and I remember on Deyinterviewing a gay just crashhis car, he came to interview with seven brokenripes and I found that pretty good because you know I'm sai well. This isthe sort of Hattithud we want. Ninety Percent Wel have cort to cancel. Wejust came Doan Sae, anyface Haid, you don't Wan to Mus INV, because I readywant the job, but they Hav a car crash, and that's probably just that hat. Heshould and and again, as you said, that greated perseverance probably gave himthe job, and I think it's really important youothe thing that is big forus and I'm sure for all your clients is that Tru sor fit. You know we are anorganization, we have a DNA. I would not say that all people are clones. Youknow we've got lots of different personalities, but we've got that sortof culture, and it's often difficult. We hear from our CRUSS is difficult tofind people that share the same mindset of the same culture. How do you goabout first offal defining that and assisting that in the process as well,because it's also very difficult just through up aquait yeah ye h? Absolutelyso. Basically, without you know, hthat combined background in Siver securityand having worked from within ou N, all of our consultants H, they worked insome part of the organization. At some point you know withinsive ar businessgrowth or with insidee business resource, so that already kind of putsus in a prime position to be able to havp organizations ascertain that yeah,it's difficult to do from the outside, when you just know a Littean idea oftheu organization itself, but it's really more when you start knowing theoe person that Iu's actually going to hire those individuals so for insforinstance, Kennidate join an organization based on you know, valuesand vision, also whether they see if those values and visions are beingtranslated and lived through by the person who actually hides them. So, forinstance, in my greets, not one way streeght, you know N, you need to thinkabout who is hiring and why it what we touched on earlier. You know you canhave a great candidate, that is, you know, supercoacabor hungry, to learnHav all that grit and all that all those good stuff. But if the hoemanager isn't a great coach, then it's...

...never going to work out. So when I speak to a high Mager, lookingfor something or other, what I want to ask them is okay. So what's a greatabout working for you, why should people join your teams, absolutely asan individual to O breat? How have you developed two members? You know wellthey now you know what is your evidence of success and you'll find that theyfind it a very difficult conversation to have, because no one necessariy astat Qeon, and you can't expect that cultural fits coming just from thecandidate and to work it out for themselves. You have to give somethingand to said the scene, and for me this is how you can find ou know the rightcultural fits by having conversations both sides and not just you know, oneGanxcen out to the candidate. You probably also get the iring manager orthe person whos iring to actually think a little bit more correct, absolutelydriging them to change their mind about what they are looking for t when youtake them to those questions, because the reason why I'm masking you e weoften as the question when we get to a process w with a new client and we S-okay, wel. What's the value of spending, one awol with you, if someone mee beetwith yourself in what is the value and don't tell U that you're going to givethem a day, more, don't tell them that! Don't tell that, you Wuld, you wouldtell them more about your solutions and because that's thatst the basic. If youhave to meet someone, what is the various Mani when I wer with you, theyalso finding difficult and in the process of thinking often they changedthe way they want to be able. They would change the way to do theirpresentation of they would change the structure of a meeting, and so what?Actually? Maybe we should start with an open conversation, put leave the LAPTAPin the bag and it's only when we get to the stage of doing a demo, that wit taGoe about Anddo a demo rather than just starting and ot, really interacting andjust going through some borring, slades or demo. So do you have the same sortof Senaro when, when you as this question, and probably because youpeople that expecting to get from you, then they change lated their mind temof what they're looking for the type of individual and help you to open thatsort of okay, w need to io the characterrism in Thi, cu, setes, wil!Absolutely! And you see that the conversation changes the level of theconversant sation goes. You know upper level because when you start talkingabout a position, you know it's basically shopping this, and he thisthis this this this and this okay. So now, let's Ticke US step back and lookat whyare you, you know. What's your background, what have you done? Youknow what's so great and then you can leverage that you know with e cannidatestend point. You know where they coming from because again you know you can'twork out the cultural fit with a few questions. Unfortunately, you know ithas to be that you know much more indepth conversation also understandingfrom the candidate where you know who was a great boss to them. Yeah whoworks out who got the best out of them yea what tin they do. What did they say?So you were you know successful in that position, or is it just own to you andthen we'll go back down the the Pussher, exactly Soit' Wintoli, or was it down to whatthe time Raunger did and and made you youl made. You do certain things thatAve made your success. So your fight,...

...it's very it's a far more interestingconversation than just you know, putting down the list of job skills andwhatever, let's question is e've good face again,maybe a bit of a tricky one and will, as you find opinion rother than a fact,but from your pospectsive. What works the best Wi be the the manager that canteach the skills and mentol and really walk together with their team or woill.It be more like the melager at led the people that they recruityest be, andthen maybe I be not be distant, but a bit more. They ave been recruited.Theyare, probably paid a lot of money, potcurly for Deor Doban and tmust Senorone. So let them be and let them do that stuff so which one do you seebeing the most successful, I'm not talking about macco, Managemen, O orbeing very you now on type of people and too much and talkng more about thetepasat wants to spend a lot of time. So in a sense, is the manager wild sayto you to that question, but with a lot, O ommuns Yeah Ave, lots of people, EtcaEcetra, and I'm really on top of my team, and I will speak to them everyday and I will want to know exactly what's happening and I want to be verypose to them more successful. L. The person is a bit more distanas. Actually,my management stylis. I let people do catch up with them on, so we don't wantto have too many interactions. Don't want to be in their way. I don't thinkneither is a successfor eproach caus is the BESTON. Well, it's a combination ofboth okay. You know you can't it depends where you're hiring. You knowif your highrond experience again, which is you know what we coveredearlier, then that experience comes at Aa Price Tag. Therefore, there's anexpectation that the person will be able to go and do their own thing, butyou really Wul would expect the Blis yeah you wo LD. You would expect thathat at the same time. You know. Is it enough? Is it interesting enough forsomeone to just you know just go in into their job? Do they wou not expect?You know some interaction in the learning from the manager? So again,you know it depends what we want. The outcome should be and the same you knowthe other side when you're hiring less experience, people you expect they Ollneed a lot of coaching and development, but not to the point where it becomes.You know sifocating. So I see it depending on what the outcome needs tobe. Obviously you want to be build successful teams. I think it's acombination of both where you've got. You know if you're not hiringexperienced people, you need to be on top of what's happening, but at thesame time let people let people be obsopletely successful. You know, oftheir own back and of that s consistent to was in Cuenization agess with people.And No? U You, as Teirin manager, you need to add up to almost o thementality and the requirement and the way of walking of the people yourecruit. Okay, that makes a lot of senseiready enjoy the conversation tothen. Thank you very much for your insight. Now. If people wants to getintoh with Jurity, what's the best way to get in touch with Ludy Martin greatwell, I'd love that you know I'd love to hear you know from people that alisten to this podcast and want to get in touch with a side of businessresource the best ways to reach out to me personally on Linton O Kno, redy,Mauntin or Vimai Ludy Dock Martin and Saver Business Resourcecom or viawebsites, threed dot, side of business...

...resorcecom. Okay, very, very good! Well,that's great! Thank you very much for time. Readyu today was reallyunfaithful. I really appreciate you take the time to meet with me and speakwith me, and hopefully, wil have someons of a big to discus t o Gehor ontheafe Chop Great. I so mach for your time rely enjoyed it. Thank you. operatics has redefined the meaning ofrevenue generation for technology companies worldwide, while thetraditional concepts of building and managing inside sales teams in househas existed for many years. Companies are struggling with the lack of focus,agility and scale required in today's fast and complex world of enterprisetechnology sales see how ouperatics can help your company accelerate pipelineat operatics, dot net you've been listening to, b, to b revenueacceleration to ensure that you never miss an episode subscribe to the showin your favorite podcast player. Thank you so much for listening until nexttime.

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