B2B Revenue Acceleration
B2B Revenue Acceleration

Episode · 1 year ago

80. Sales Engagement Starts with Your TQ (Technology Quotient)

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

CEOs are getting 250+ emails a day, mostly automated. What if you knew how to leverage all of our existing technologies to create omni-channel blends?

Upping your TQ — that’s technology quotient — is the future of sales engagement.

In this episode, I interview Justin Michael, Regional VP of Sales at YouAppi, about the technology quotient missing from most reps’ skillset.

Justin Michael’s book is forthcoming in 2021, but you can actually read it now.

You were listening to bb revenue acceleration, a podcast dedicated helping software executive stay on the cutting edge of sales andmarketing in their industry. Let's get into the show. Hi, you,welcome to be too, pure of a new acceleration. My name is Alimuch and I'm here today with just in my call, vp of cells atyou ape and although of Tq. How are you? Are they just indoing well? Thanks. Yeah, another early morning here and in Santa Barbara, California. Yeah, work first started from you. So six am andseven am are my friends. That's what you've got to do when you arein California. Unfortunately, you know, wake up like these costs. Sotoday we will be talking about your new book, how to achieve super humanseals engagement skills. But before we can into that conversation, would you mindjust introducing yourself audience and and just tell us more about your backgrounding bit tobcells? Yes, so, to put in a nutshell, I have beenin sales for twenty years, which I think is not too unusual. Ikind of wrote the SASS wave in two thousand and seven, getting into softwaresof service, and I worked for Sean Parker and I can nonprofit fundraising toolscompany, and then I did work for sales force and Linkedin and then adozen different startups over the years, mainly in mobile advertising and marketing automation,which are kind of fields that touch on artificial intelligence and machine learning in prettycool ways as it comes to predictive analytics and programming. Customer Journey touches right. Very exciting be to be and BTC space about Gosh, a few yearsago, three four years ago, they did an international search for kind ofone of the leading top funnel or SDR minds, because there was a groupof engineers that wanted to build an artificial intelligence that would mimic or replace prospecting. Now, if you think of dripmation. And so inside Salescom, which isnow z an't, they do a contest that to survey and the numberone guy in the world is bet was been Sardella at the times, thecofound or data and so I reached out to well, he was working onthis stealth project and we started talking about these themes and we were still onthe same page with our philosophies about this. They flew me to San Francisco andI was able to talk, similar to this podcast, for two tothree hours about all the techniques and stacks that I used, and so theyhave decided to put me in there and we grew that business to about ahundred concurrent customers and what we're doing was automating sales development. So we replacedhuman beings. We really ended up augmenting and serving. You know, therewere no str as fire. Don't worry, we really augmented what they were doing. But we built an artificial intelligence level that could simulate up on prospectingand we acquired a Swedish company that did personalization injection into our reach sales lups. I was running a hundred concurrent you know, outre sales left instances,pulling a ton of they sent a million emails in the year. Try toevery stack you can imagine, and you...

...know, it was part of thiseffort. The company has since been acquired and I've since that time been aregional vice president or vice president in AD tech, advertising technology companies, butI've developed systems and principles that have given me the ability to have the outputof five people, ten people. Right outreach says a hundred people. SoI decided to put it down the book. Right. I decide to look atthings like, you know twenty rule or ways that you can figure outhow to do something one time, like a paper prototype, like you canfigure out how to create this amazing sequence of the email once and then scaleit to an entire total addressable market. And so that's what the books about. It's all these growth hacks, similar like how Max Outra there wrote onsales at hacker and then wrote like hacking sales the book and explains all thetechnologies my book. And if you think about like predictable revenue, which definesthe SDR and AE model, and the novelty of supply chain, like itwas a big deal in two thousand and eleven for Aaron Ross to say youshould have an SDR. All they do is open business, and then aall they do is close business, and so he defined that. What I'mdefining is like the Jarvis Iron Man Suit in the paradigm where everything's str ae. We're all sitting here remote, there's no field sellers because no one canleave their house. Everyone has at that bunch of technology, whether they're inSMB and it's hub spot, or whether their full scale. They have outreachor lead Iq. They have all this technology. They're probably not using it. They probably will over relied on events dinners in bounds now that even knowsthere would have to at least found now with covid nineteen. Yeah, thankyou enough to talk that. The site body through wild. Yeah. Soit was just kind of rolling along and got a cool author with my mentorT J Hughes, who did Combo Prospecting and the Joshua principle. He's hadsome best selling books in Australia and I've worked with him. His BB profileLinkedin is the third is three hundred fifteen thousand followers. So other than JillConrath and Mark Henry has like this huge presence and we really just use thison his label, like a Harper Collins or something. And then all thisstuff hit and so we cited crowdsource the book. We put into shared GoogleDoc. We got to twentyzero words, not fortyzero words. Usually sales booksabout sixtyzero words. And we have four hundred five hundred thought leaders in there, the WHO's who. These the C levels from all the textack technology companies. These are all the frontline wraps. These are all the appointment setting businessesand everybody's gone in there, left comments, edited it and made sure that everything'sright in this right like how your deliverability, how many emails you cansend every day, how the text acts, talk who's been acquired. You know, it's so relevant up to the minute. Yeah, the issue withreleasing it in six months is all the tech could change because of Ma.What I really wanted to write was like learning how to learn. This isa Meta framework. You're sitting here in two thousand and twenty five, twentythirty and your job is the hunt for new business and you're not going todo that single channel, single technology right like right now, seventy percent ofyour time is administrative tasks because you're to figure out your crm and your dialerand your sequencer and your email platform and your data sources, right. Soa lot of companies do throughout their hands...

...and hire someone like it right.Well, that for party, which is great, but then a lot ofcompanies have their own internal resources and a heavy, heavy investment in these technologyplatforms and the adoption is super low. That's my thirty six thousand foot intro. I was a mouthful, okay, yeah, that's good, a ndableactivation, because we see I've been part of the of the email exchange andand the crowd and I've not been able yet to contribute to it and thenshow my thoughts with you. I've seen some people erecting very well. I'veseen some people kind of, you know, being a little bit more reticent.Does the right woe, but people could have and is good to seethat fight of sorts and and I think this is what would achieve your verygood and product. But but what's the really motivation from your side? AndI guess reason why I'm asking you the question is because you could take allthat knowledge and make a fortune for yourself with it. So way would youshare it like that magic trick, and show to everyone out to do thetrick what was the was motivate? You should pain that. Yeah, soI just turned forty and I actually spent the first ten years of my careerdoing call center stuff and working in technology incubators. I don't know the collegedegree and I use these systems to, you know, work all the wayup to Linkedin and sales force just by working super hole. I work superhard, but I could work harder than the next person, because I usetechnology. I was of a brother that's an inventor google. So like thisStepasto runs in the family. For me, I am motivated to help sellers everywhereto understand this stuff. You know, who knows what the future is like? I really see myself as maybe not the next Aaron Ross, butsomebody that is having that kind of impact on the technology sector when it comesto predictions. So one of the blogs I wrote was called sales runner twothousand and forty nine. I Love Blade runner. I've met Rector Howard.It's like my favorite movie. Yeah, okay, I had the laser discwith the alternate at ending with Edward James, almost in the favorite grain. Atthe end of the day, you thinking of the future like next toseven replicants, right? You thinking of two thirty five, two thousand andfifty Thomas Toungos. You're thinking of records, while on the singularity, there isa time in the mid T S. we're very similar to an uber selfdriving car, fast moving startups. A round B round raised ten milliondollars. What is generated the meetings is pure artificial intelligence, as yours arenot gone. Sales Development Reps are analysts, their sales engineers, they're doing sequelpolls, they're sitting in front of the targeting programming. You've already seenthe companies like Bumbora like a quantcast model where it's possible to see anonymized surgedata, to take a Tam, a total addressabul market, to look atall the accounts in an ABM or an accounty sales development, absd perspective andsee who is searching already for your service and the prioritize those. And sosystems like Xam, like inside salescom and talk about in the book, they'rebecoming predictive. So we have these mega trends of, you know, themanual calling, emailing, the person doing...

...all the Admin goes away. Astechnology becomes better, I think there's going to be a return to innocence whichI've talked about, which is that SCR is now our selling full time.They're just closer to the customer. The technology is delivering them the leads andthe appointments and they're on the phone doing discovery, qualification and medic so yeah, my my intention is, you know, really to be the best that Ican be as a rep. it's not to tell people how I'm abetter rep than you. It's to empower you, wherever you are, togo on this journey, Paul Walker, run, to fuse with your technologystack, to accept it and absorb it. There's a massive battle online, socialselling versus cold calling, old school versys new school. But, likeI predict in my writing, it really doesn't matter because the jobs as weknow them right now don't exist in five and ten years because the technology isso advanced. You know, it's like it's Bots, like high frequency training, like there's just things like drift is a perfect example. Drift automation.You hit the front of the site, you start talking, you're not talkingto a person, you're talking to a preprogram artificial intelligence with decision trees.If this in that rule's edge and it's crunching big data, you ask youa question, it looks at five thousand answers that questions, selects and thengives you an answer, you can't tell that you're talking to a robot.Google do plex, where the phone call is made with natural language processing tothe restaurant to book look at dinner, and the person on that the setof phone can't tell that that's an artificial intelligence calling them. It really hardto give us straight answer. I don't know where I fit in all this. People read my book and thought of me is like John Connor and Skynet. They're like it's just too far out there, like this could be usedfor evil. Right, absolutely so. There is one quoting in your Buddhasay we and I think you may have already kind of funds of that question. In a way. These book is about people email from the fog offailure to instead execute at universe of the effectiveness. What do you think?Sorts? People are sailing, and I would you see technology helping them tosucceed, because if we mentioned, like all tefisher intelligence and voice like robotFoka, the outside, and I'll do you walking with the gas ready mentioned, but the bedality is DAB being a bit both, I would that theclergy empower them, if not replace them. Yes, so what I realized fromthe initial blog post is that this type of Futurism is fun and I'mgoing to be interviewed by an analyst from forester to talk about the more distantfuture. Just like we don't have flying cars and just like we're all innormal oovers there's a practicality to the current stack. Right currently, if you'rea wrap or an STRAE and you're not logging into a sequencer every day,huge opportunity because if you figured out even one campaign and social or one tempthat you could be taking that and expanding a en X. and you knowright now there's a series of tools that are very effective that you can basicallydouble triple your efforts. Now there's some...

...authors that talk about ten x moonshotsand ten x rule. If you just send out ten times more or workten times harder, it's not going to help you. It's about first identifyingthe twenty percent of your activities that are most effective and then doubling down onthose. And so x activity and action only really helps to scale you ifyou're picking the right levers and the right effective actions. And so these systemshave analytics and the analytics are mysterious. Right you can send an automated campaignand you can see the your open rates or thirty percent and you have fiftyreplies. Well, without sentiment analysis, forty nine could say removed. SoI could be a very bad campaign where easy exact same campaign with a differentsubject line could have a twenty percent, an open rate and five replies,but those five replies have a high propensity. You can an opportunity. So youknow, this is all very daunting to a modern rap but if youjust start to scratch the surface, to try to automy or semi aim insome rear activity, you'll be so surprised that the effectiveness and the productivity increase. You know, less is more more with us. That's what I haveto do. There's a paradox as well, because you know, recently we've etabout challenge your sale without about you need to do your research before youactually engage with someone. And I appreciate you know drift is okay if someonecalls you, someone calls you in having an automated voice kind of leading themto the right people and all that. It's okay when you do an actualpractive cutouts and pobs. Surely if you sell something in the multi dollar multimilliondollars, complex cells and and and also sometimes a destructive product, okay.Well, you have a concept that you know it's not doesn't have a category. So you're selling, I don't know, a selver or storage or fire walland end point security product. You've got some fils is a little bitmore of a pay. This is on your category. I didn't know thatthat exists. How can the see artificial intelligence actually support your on that,because they don't. I mean I don't know if they can. Maybe theydo, but I would you tell or research out? Do you adapt themessage, because artificial indigence, so we don't knows. On you know,it's kind of an algorithm and you say that you got there. So it'skind of a scripted approach. You know, it's an algorithm. Yes, yougo there, I know you go down. Okay, what about that'shuman feeding, the research, the webving the conversation and feeling that he's goingthat way. So I will add that to it. Can you tell alwaysa tificially intelligenous could you actually do the property properly? For two million dollardeals, and I'm gaging we see over sible value prospect so there's two toanswer. Just that one. The technology is not there yet. Are Thetechnology that we acquired had the ability to do things like technographics, psychographics anddemographics. So let me let me answer this in three ways. One,our emails pass the turing test because we could figure out connections in common andwe could connect, figure out companies in common and interesting common and mention thosewithin a template in a way that the email was personalized enough that it wasindistinguishable from having written by human. And there was a lot of setup thathappened. For example, if I tell a machine to find connections in commonand I start emailing my friends on Linkedin,...

...it's going to reference Max ouchiler everytime or it's going to reference read Hoffman every time. So that's afailed the system has to be smart, so you have to be able tostop the system and write about your most common nodes and connections so it knowsto prioritize suppression lists and who not to mention. So it's doing the nextorder down. That's just to nail the connections in common. Pleas to automated. I'm just giving you an example of how human intervention, along with ourofficial intelligence, preprogrammed and thoughtful, can work. This book is really notabout that. This booking knowledges that we don't have the flying car. Thisbook is about technology quotient, which is one's ability to become adept at thetech that exists now. So for every recording now they become once reading itfive percent better today, with whatever the tech they have, with the Toubspot, sales force, sales locked outreach, sales navigator, lead, Iq,Zoom Info, just thinking of the major players. Right. I havethings that connect and sell in there, things like connect leader in aurum right, super automated calling. We're dialing thousands. This addresses all the current technology,mostly because I found in a world where we all have the exact sametechnology. Like, if I'm at on a floor of two hundred STRs,the strs that did the best are the ones that obviously they are calling,but also are embracing all the technology. So this is going to help yourapidly assimilate and understand whatever TEXTAC you have. So I created Meta framework. Sohere's how to quickly learn any UI, any UX. Here's how to quicklyuse all these families of SOFTWA. They're being built. The future isfar away and you're right, and that's like I was involved in spending amillions of dollars trying to try to figure out how to use AI for sales, and we never went there. We always said it was humans and machines, because we always acknowledge the limitations of of current artificial intelligence. What ifis the job is really, really hard, like what the job actually is,if you're doing upbound hunting, is you're sitting looking at computer. Thecomputers always on sales navigator because there's six hundred and seventy five million prospects.They're looking for the targets on navigator. Then they're going to email manually ortheir str is going to start sequences, and usually sales loped out reach.I like to mention Sam because inside salescom is pivoted and it's just really coolplatform. A lot of people don't know what they're doing. X An tzant tertiarily, you have a data source because you're like any emails, becauseLinkedin does not give you emails. So you need a working email and aworking phone, and then most people don't call to have this silent sales force. Now here's the other thing. There's my brothers, a technologist. Intwo thousand and two you had in the Fortune One Tho, you had liketwo hundred CMOS that could buy advertising technology. In your two hundred and thirty fourvendors selling to them. Now, in two thousand and twenty you haveseven thousand two hundred vendors, as you see the sales technology. So it'sbecause similar to the music business, where you can make a recording as goodas Michael Jackson your bedroom because a Moore's law and transistors. You know,basically anology is sophisticated enough that anyone start...

...as ass right, with technologies likeAmazon web services, anyone could just code a startup company in their hurrash.Right, Larry and Sergey started google starting a garage, right, but rightnow it's just so easy to start startup companies. So here's what you have. You have more startup companies than ever. Pre Corona you had the biggest fundingrounds ever. Forty percent of the funding rounds two thousand and nineteen,wherever, a hundred million. Why? Because they want to do an IPO, because they don't want to show the fundamentals right. There's some, somemassive companies that have I road and tanks because they were running like a startupcompany in Wall Street. Didn't like it. Now here's what Yat. When youhave enough companies raising a hundred million dollars and enough companies that are exactlythe same, commoditized, what do you have to do? You have tohire an army of SDRs. Can't pay them. One strs are gone.In a year and a half, every SDR of every train is trying tobe in an A. I help them get there because they want to getfifty splits. They want the commission, the CFO saying I can't give bigcommissions to my openers because you can't bite the apple to many times because youultimate close the deal. Have to have the margin, have to pay theAE, have to pay management. Right. So what started to happen is whatI called the Cambrian explosion of vendors. And what this means is you,as the CEO, or getting two hundred and fifty emails a day.The majority of those emails are coming out of a blast sequencer, and soyou have this problem. We try to level the playing field. All thebest shops are using automation, already preprogram sequences. They're getting into the INBOX, usually Google is getting better better deliverability, so that they're sending way too manyemails. They're getting spam listed. All of it says hope, you'redoing well, reaching out. All the emails on exactly the same it's awhite wall of noise. The sea level shuts off their linkedin or they puttheir executive assist in it. They retreat. They don't answer the phone. Now, if you look at phone calling in the US, nine times outof ten when my phone rings, it says Robo Call, spam callers.I answer it every time. Three, four, five of those calls aregone course, and Zoom Info these awesome reps. there's literally if my phoneis flashing red, do not answer, Spam Hall and then it's a wrapfrom Zoom Info. My contact rates on a hundred dials prom three to fivein two thousand and seven. Thirteen years ago my contact rates were seven outof ten. If I use robot dials like parallels just to dine in theconnect and so I can make thousands of dollars and connect once and every fortythree times. Here's the other thing. The decisionmakers and the people that havethe money in this economy do not answer to cold email sequences and they donot pick a phone. I don't care what hour of the day. Theybecome aware of things that annoy them and they deploy their staff go read thatWhite Paper, but down the that they delegate off the rrendous task of beingsold to write and it's a byars world. So a lot of what this bookwas about in Combo Prospecting, where I was featured, is about howleverage all the existing technologies that we have now to create Omni channel blends,to create multichannel outreach and to start automating it so that you can have somebreakthrough, because there's so much stacked against you for affected outbound now a largelybecause a lot of this stuff has been adopted. So that's that's my answerto Ai. I think if you purely rely on a appointment setting, youwon't get there. If you purely rely on just email animation, you willget there. If you purely do phone...

...calls, you don't get there.You have to take your entire tech STAP, create flows and touch patterns where youuse all the technology you have and create efficiency out of a be testingthe blends of that technology. For me it sales navigator lead Iq, exceptthe extell cell phones and something like, you know, maybe a persist IQ, like a boutique, you know, outbound mechanism for high deliverability. Andthen it's knowing the throttles. If you had too many people a day onLinkedin, they shut you up here in linked in jail. If you sendover two hundred fifty emails and Gmail, they shut you off. Your yourdomain blacklisted. Right if you sideload you to me, there's issues with that. It's really really tricking out the GDPR and CCPA. So there's a there'sa lot of pitfalls. That's all explain in the book. Good. Well, thanks for your inside just till I'm very appreciate the face. You tookthe time to share all your sorts with all audience today. Lots of footfossils there, you know, and futuristic point of view, which I thinkis is really a some of them are very, very, veryiad some ofthem are struggling a little bit more to see them coming, but I'm sureyou know, we time things will change and and and a fully on thoseand fully appreciate that. Now, if anyone wants to connect with you or, you know, get a look at the book, called you at conversationof flight. What's the best way to get old of your just say yeah, so, just good a Justin Michael on Linkedin and you can just sendme a message and for now I will like email you a pdf or sharethe book with you technology portion. It's called Tq, which is distinct fromIQ and Equ and we're doing this because it's the state of the world rightnow. Like the goal is to release it on kindle through a publisher infour to six months, but this is like real time information. Nothing isstill in this book. It's being looked at right now by practitioners like you, just going adjusting, Michael and Linkedin. Send me a paying and invite amessage and I will add you to the book. I'd love to evenget your you know your inside and what you think about the stuff. It'sa living document for now and I think it's going to help thousands of peopleright now do better where they are, which is like my altruistic and intention. No, not to sell a book or service for the time being,just to help people everywhere, help sellers on the foot of Wad. Onceagain, many things for all time. Today, just and you was anupsode pressure toy on the show. Thanks early and he's kind of in areally appreciate you, guys. operatics has redefined the meaning of revenue generation fortechnology companies worldwide. While the traditional concepts of building and managing inside sales teamsinhouse has existed for many years. Companies are struggling with a lack of focus, agility and scale required in today's fast and complex world of enterprise technology sales. See How operatics can help your company accelerate pipeline at operatics dotnet. You'vebeen listening to be tob revenue acceleration. To ensure that you never miss anepisode, subscribe to the show in your favorite podcast player. Thank you somuch for listening. Until next time,.

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