B2B Revenue Acceleration
B2B Revenue Acceleration

Episode · 2 years ago

80. Sales Engagement Starts with Your TQ (Technology Quotient)

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

CEOs are getting 250+ emails a day, mostly automated. What if you knew how to leverage all of our existing technologies to create omni-channel blends?

Upping your TQ — that’s technology quotient — is the future of sales engagement.

In this episode, I interview Justin Michael, Regional VP of Sales at YouAppi, about the technology quotient missing from most reps’ skillset.

Justin Michael’s book is forthcoming in 2021, but you can actually read it now.

You were listening to bb revenue acceleration, a podcast dedicated helping software executive stay on the cutting edge of sales and marketing in their industry. Let's get into the show. Hi, you, welcome to be too, pure of a new acceleration. My name is Ali much and I'm here today with just in my call, vp of cells at you ape and although of Tq. How are you? Are they just in doing well? Thanks. Yeah, another early morning here and in Santa Barbara, California. Yeah, work first started from you. So six am and seven am are my friends. That's what you've got to do when you are in California. Unfortunately, you know, wake up like these costs. So today we will be talking about your new book, how to achieve super human seals engagement skills. But before we can into that conversation, would you mind just introducing yourself audience and and just tell us more about your backgrounding bit tob cells? Yes, so, to put in a nutshell, I have been in sales for twenty years, which I think is not too unusual. I kind of wrote the SASS wave in two thousand and seven, getting into softwares of service, and I worked for Sean Parker and I can nonprofit fundraising tools company, and then I did work for sales force and Linkedin and then a dozen different startups over the years, mainly in mobile advertising and marketing automation, which are kind of fields that touch on artificial intelligence and machine learning in pretty cool ways as it comes to predictive analytics and programming. Customer Journey touches right. Very exciting be to be and BTC space about Gosh, a few years ago, three four years ago, they did an international search for kind of one of the leading top funnel or SDR minds, because there was a group of engineers that wanted to build an artificial intelligence that would mimic or replace prospecting. Now, if you think of dripmation. And so inside Salescom, which is now z an't, they do a contest that to survey and the number one guy in the world is bet was been Sardella at the times, the cofound or data and so I reached out to well, he was working on this stealth project and we started talking about these themes and we were still on the same page with our philosophies about this. They flew me to San Francisco and I was able to talk, similar to this podcast, for two to three hours about all the techniques and stacks that I used, and so they have decided to put me in there and we grew that business to about a hundred concurrent customers and what we're doing was automating sales development. So we replaced human beings. We really ended up augmenting and serving. You know, there were no str as fire. Don't worry, we really augmented what they were doing. But we built an artificial intelligence level that could simulate up on prospecting and we acquired a Swedish company that did personalization injection into our reach sales lups. I was running a hundred concurrent you know, outre sales left instances, pulling a ton of they sent a million emails in the year. Try to every stack you can imagine, and you...

...know, it was part of this effort. The company has since been acquired and I've since that time been a regional vice president or vice president in AD tech, advertising technology companies, but I've developed systems and principles that have given me the ability to have the output of five people, ten people. Right outreach says a hundred people. So I decided to put it down the book. Right. I decide to look at things like, you know twenty rule or ways that you can figure out how to do something one time, like a paper prototype, like you can figure out how to create this amazing sequence of the email once and then scale it to an entire total addressable market. And so that's what the books about. It's all these growth hacks, similar like how Max Outra there wrote on sales at hacker and then wrote like hacking sales the book and explains all the technologies my book. And if you think about like predictable revenue, which defines the SDR and AE model, and the novelty of supply chain, like it was a big deal in two thousand and eleven for Aaron Ross to say you should have an SDR. All they do is open business, and then a all they do is close business, and so he defined that. What I'm defining is like the Jarvis Iron Man Suit in the paradigm where everything's str ae. We're all sitting here remote, there's no field sellers because no one can leave their house. Everyone has at that bunch of technology, whether they're in SMB and it's hub spot, or whether their full scale. They have outreach or lead Iq. They have all this technology. They're probably not using it. They probably will over relied on events dinners in bounds now that even knows there would have to at least found now with covid nineteen. Yeah, thank you enough to talk that. The site body through wild. Yeah. So it was just kind of rolling along and got a cool author with my mentor T J Hughes, who did Combo Prospecting and the Joshua principle. He's had some best selling books in Australia and I've worked with him. His BB profile Linkedin is the third is three hundred fifteen thousand followers. So other than Jill Conrath and Mark Henry has like this huge presence and we really just use this on his label, like a Harper Collins or something. And then all this stuff hit and so we cited crowdsource the book. We put into shared Google Doc. We got to twentyzero words, not fortyzero words. Usually sales books about sixtyzero words. And we have four hundred five hundred thought leaders in there, the WHO's who. These the C levels from all the textack technology companies. These are all the frontline wraps. These are all the appointment setting businesses and everybody's gone in there, left comments, edited it and made sure that everything's right in this right like how your deliverability, how many emails you can send every day, how the text acts, talk who's been acquired. You know, it's so relevant up to the minute. Yeah, the issue with releasing it in six months is all the tech could change because of Ma. What I really wanted to write was like learning how to learn. This is a Meta framework. You're sitting here in two thousand and twenty five, twenty thirty and your job is the hunt for new business and you're not going to do that single channel, single technology right like right now, seventy percent of your time is administrative tasks because you're to figure out your crm and your dialer and your sequencer and your email platform and your data sources, right. So a lot of companies do throughout their hands...

...and hire someone like it right. Well, that for party, which is great, but then a lot of companies have their own internal resources and a heavy, heavy investment in these technology platforms and the adoption is super low. That's my thirty six thousand foot intro. I was a mouthful, okay, yeah, that's good, a ndable activation, because we see I've been part of the of the email exchange and and the crowd and I've not been able yet to contribute to it and then show my thoughts with you. I've seen some people erecting very well. I've seen some people kind of, you know, being a little bit more reticent. Does the right woe, but people could have and is good to see that fight of sorts and and I think this is what would achieve your very good and product. But but what's the really motivation from your side? And I guess reason why I'm asking you the question is because you could take all that knowledge and make a fortune for yourself with it. So way would you share it like that magic trick, and show to everyone out to do the trick what was the was motivate? You should pain that. Yeah, so I just turned forty and I actually spent the first ten years of my career doing call center stuff and working in technology incubators. I don't know the college degree and I use these systems to, you know, work all the way up to Linkedin and sales force just by working super hole. I work super hard, but I could work harder than the next person, because I use technology. I was of a brother that's an inventor google. So like this Stepasto runs in the family. For me, I am motivated to help sellers everywhere to understand this stuff. You know, who knows what the future is like? I really see myself as maybe not the next Aaron Ross, but somebody that is having that kind of impact on the technology sector when it comes to predictions. So one of the blogs I wrote was called sales runner two thousand and forty nine. I Love Blade runner. I've met Rector Howard. It's like my favorite movie. Yeah, okay, I had the laser disc with the alternate at ending with Edward James, almost in the favorite grain. At the end of the day, you thinking of the future like next to seven replicants, right? You thinking of two thirty five, two thousand and fifty Thomas Toungos. You're thinking of records, while on the singularity, there is a time in the mid T S. we're very similar to an uber self driving car, fast moving startups. A round B round raised ten million dollars. What is generated the meetings is pure artificial intelligence, as yours are not gone. Sales Development Reps are analysts, their sales engineers, they're doing sequel polls, they're sitting in front of the targeting programming. You've already seen the companies like Bumbora like a quantcast model where it's possible to see anonymized surge data, to take a Tam, a total addressabul market, to look at all the accounts in an ABM or an accounty sales development, absd perspective and see who is searching already for your service and the prioritize those. And so systems like Xam, like inside salescom and talk about in the book, they're becoming predictive. So we have these mega trends of, you know, the manual calling, emailing, the person doing...

...all the Admin goes away. As technology becomes better, I think there's going to be a return to innocence which I've talked about, which is that SCR is now our selling full time. They're just closer to the customer. The technology is delivering them the leads and the appointments and they're on the phone doing discovery, qualification and medic so yeah, my my intention is, you know, really to be the best that I can be as a rep. it's not to tell people how I'm a better rep than you. It's to empower you, wherever you are, to go on this journey, Paul Walker, run, to fuse with your technology stack, to accept it and absorb it. There's a massive battle online, social selling versus cold calling, old school versys new school. But, like I predict in my writing, it really doesn't matter because the jobs as we know them right now don't exist in five and ten years because the technology is so advanced. You know, it's like it's Bots, like high frequency training, like there's just things like drift is a perfect example. Drift automation. You hit the front of the site, you start talking, you're not talking to a person, you're talking to a preprogram artificial intelligence with decision trees. If this in that rule's edge and it's crunching big data, you ask you a question, it looks at five thousand answers that questions, selects and then gives you an answer, you can't tell that you're talking to a robot. Google do plex, where the phone call is made with natural language processing to the restaurant to book look at dinner, and the person on that the set of phone can't tell that that's an artificial intelligence calling them. It really hard to give us straight answer. I don't know where I fit in all this. People read my book and thought of me is like John Connor and Skynet. They're like it's just too far out there, like this could be used for evil. Right, absolutely so. There is one quoting in your Buddha say we and I think you may have already kind of funds of that question. In a way. These book is about people email from the fog of failure to instead execute at universe of the effectiveness. What do you think? Sorts? People are sailing, and I would you see technology helping them to succeed, because if we mentioned, like all tefisher intelligence and voice like robot Foka, the outside, and I'll do you walking with the gas ready mentioned, but the bedality is DAB being a bit both, I would that the clergy empower them, if not replace them. Yes, so what I realized from the initial blog post is that this type of Futurism is fun and I'm going to be interviewed by an analyst from forester to talk about the more distant future. Just like we don't have flying cars and just like we're all in normal oovers there's a practicality to the current stack. Right currently, if you're a wrap or an STRAE and you're not logging into a sequencer every day, huge opportunity because if you figured out even one campaign and social or one temp that you could be taking that and expanding a en X. and you know right now there's a series of tools that are very effective that you can basically double triple your efforts. Now there's some...

...authors that talk about ten x moonshots and ten x rule. If you just send out ten times more or work ten times harder, it's not going to help you. It's about first identifying the twenty percent of your activities that are most effective and then doubling down on those. And so x activity and action only really helps to scale you if you're picking the right levers and the right effective actions. And so these systems have analytics and the analytics are mysterious. Right you can send an automated campaign and you can see the your open rates or thirty percent and you have fifty replies. Well, without sentiment analysis, forty nine could say removed. So I could be a very bad campaign where easy exact same campaign with a different subject line could have a twenty percent, an open rate and five replies, but those five replies have a high propensity. You can an opportunity. So you know, this is all very daunting to a modern rap but if you just start to scratch the surface, to try to automy or semi aim in some rear activity, you'll be so surprised that the effectiveness and the productivity increase. You know, less is more more with us. That's what I have to do. There's a paradox as well, because you know, recently we've et about challenge your sale without about you need to do your research before you actually engage with someone. And I appreciate you know drift is okay if someone calls you, someone calls you in having an automated voice kind of leading them to the right people and all that. It's okay when you do an actual practive cutouts and pobs. Surely if you sell something in the multi dollar multimillion dollars, complex cells and and and also sometimes a destructive product, okay. Well, you have a concept that you know it's not doesn't have a category. So you're selling, I don't know, a selver or storage or fire wall and end point security product. You've got some fils is a little bit more of a pay. This is on your category. I didn't know that that exists. How can the see artificial intelligence actually support your on that, because they don't. I mean I don't know if they can. Maybe they do, but I would you tell or research out? Do you adapt the message, because artificial indigence, so we don't knows. On you know, it's kind of an algorithm and you say that you got there. So it's kind of a scripted approach. You know, it's an algorithm. Yes, you go there, I know you go down. Okay, what about that's human feeding, the research, the webving the conversation and feeling that he's going that way. So I will add that to it. Can you tell always a tificially intelligenous could you actually do the property properly? For two million dollar deals, and I'm gaging we see over sible value prospect so there's two to answer. Just that one. The technology is not there yet. Are The technology that we acquired had the ability to do things like technographics, psychographics and demographics. So let me let me answer this in three ways. One, our emails pass the turing test because we could figure out connections in common and we could connect, figure out companies in common and interesting common and mention those within a template in a way that the email was personalized enough that it was indistinguishable from having written by human. And there was a lot of setup that happened. For example, if I tell a machine to find connections in common and I start emailing my friends on Linkedin,...

...it's going to reference Max ouchiler every time or it's going to reference read Hoffman every time. So that's a failed the system has to be smart, so you have to be able to stop the system and write about your most common nodes and connections so it knows to prioritize suppression lists and who not to mention. So it's doing the next order down. That's just to nail the connections in common. Pleas to automated. I'm just giving you an example of how human intervention, along with our official intelligence, preprogrammed and thoughtful, can work. This book is really not about that. This booking knowledges that we don't have the flying car. This book is about technology quotient, which is one's ability to become adept at the tech that exists now. So for every recording now they become once reading it five percent better today, with whatever the tech they have, with the Toub spot, sales force, sales locked outreach, sales navigator, lead, Iq, Zoom Info, just thinking of the major players. Right. I have things that connect and sell in there, things like connect leader in aurum right, super automated calling. We're dialing thousands. This addresses all the current technology, mostly because I found in a world where we all have the exact same technology. Like, if I'm at on a floor of two hundred STRs, the strs that did the best are the ones that obviously they are calling, but also are embracing all the technology. So this is going to help you rapidly assimilate and understand whatever TEXTAC you have. So I created Meta framework. So here's how to quickly learn any UI, any UX. Here's how to quickly use all these families of SOFTWA. They're being built. The future is far away and you're right, and that's like I was involved in spending a millions of dollars trying to try to figure out how to use AI for sales, and we never went there. We always said it was humans and machines, because we always acknowledge the limitations of of current artificial intelligence. What if is the job is really, really hard, like what the job actually is, if you're doing upbound hunting, is you're sitting looking at computer. The computers always on sales navigator because there's six hundred and seventy five million prospects. They're looking for the targets on navigator. Then they're going to email manually or their str is going to start sequences, and usually sales loped out reach. I like to mention Sam because inside salescom is pivoted and it's just really cool platform. A lot of people don't know what they're doing. X An t zant tertiarily, you have a data source because you're like any emails, because Linkedin does not give you emails. So you need a working email and a working phone, and then most people don't call to have this silent sales force. Now here's the other thing. There's my brothers, a technologist. In two thousand and two you had in the Fortune One Tho, you had like two hundred CMOS that could buy advertising technology. In your two hundred and thirty four vendors selling to them. Now, in two thousand and twenty you have seven thousand two hundred vendors, as you see the sales technology. So it's because similar to the music business, where you can make a recording as good as Michael Jackson your bedroom because a Moore's law and transistors. You know, basically anology is sophisticated enough that anyone start...

...as ass right, with technologies like Amazon web services, anyone could just code a startup company in their hurrash. Right, Larry and Sergey started google starting a garage, right, but right now it's just so easy to start startup companies. So here's what you have. You have more startup companies than ever. Pre Corona you had the biggest funding rounds ever. Forty percent of the funding rounds two thousand and nineteen, wherever, a hundred million. Why? Because they want to do an IPO, because they don't want to show the fundamentals right. There's some, some massive companies that have I road and tanks because they were running like a startup company in Wall Street. Didn't like it. Now here's what Yat. When you have enough companies raising a hundred million dollars and enough companies that are exactly the same, commoditized, what do you have to do? You have to hire an army of SDRs. Can't pay them. One strs are gone. In a year and a half, every SDR of every train is trying to be in an A. I help them get there because they want to get fifty splits. They want the commission, the CFO saying I can't give big commissions to my openers because you can't bite the apple to many times because you ultimate close the deal. Have to have the margin, have to pay the AE, have to pay management. Right. So what started to happen is what I called the Cambrian explosion of vendors. And what this means is you, as the CEO, or getting two hundred and fifty emails a day. The majority of those emails are coming out of a blast sequencer, and so you have this problem. We try to level the playing field. All the best shops are using automation, already preprogram sequences. They're getting into the INBOX, usually Google is getting better better deliverability, so that they're sending way too many emails. They're getting spam listed. All of it says hope, you're doing well, reaching out. All the emails on exactly the same it's a white wall of noise. The sea level shuts off their linkedin or they put their executive assist in it. They retreat. They don't answer the phone. Now, if you look at phone calling in the US, nine times out of ten when my phone rings, it says Robo Call, spam callers. I answer it every time. Three, four, five of those calls are gone course, and Zoom Info these awesome reps. there's literally if my phone is flashing red, do not answer, Spam Hall and then it's a wrap from Zoom Info. My contact rates on a hundred dials prom three to five in two thousand and seven. Thirteen years ago my contact rates were seven out of ten. If I use robot dials like parallels just to dine in the connect and so I can make thousands of dollars and connect once and every forty three times. Here's the other thing. The decisionmakers and the people that have the money in this economy do not answer to cold email sequences and they do not pick a phone. I don't care what hour of the day. They become aware of things that annoy them and they deploy their staff go read that White Paper, but down the that they delegate off the rrendous task of being sold to write and it's a byars world. So a lot of what this book was about in Combo Prospecting, where I was featured, is about how leverage all the existing technologies that we have now to create Omni channel blends, to create multichannel outreach and to start automating it so that you can have some breakthrough, because there's so much stacked against you for affected outbound now a largely because a lot of this stuff has been adopted. So that's that's my answer to Ai. I think if you purely rely on a appointment setting, you won't get there. If you purely rely on just email animation, you will get there. If you purely do phone...

...calls, you don't get there. You have to take your entire tech STAP, create flows and touch patterns where you use all the technology you have and create efficiency out of a be testing the blends of that technology. For me it sales navigator lead Iq, except the extell cell phones and something like, you know, maybe a persist IQ, like a boutique, you know, outbound mechanism for high deliverability. And then it's knowing the throttles. If you had too many people a day on Linkedin, they shut you up here in linked in jail. If you send over two hundred fifty emails and Gmail, they shut you off. Your your domain blacklisted. Right if you sideload you to me, there's issues with that. It's really really tricking out the GDPR and CCPA. So there's a there's a lot of pitfalls. That's all explain in the book. Good. Well, thanks for your inside just till I'm very appreciate the face. You took the time to share all your sorts with all audience today. Lots of foot fossils there, you know, and futuristic point of view, which I think is is really a some of them are very, very, veryiad some of them are struggling a little bit more to see them coming, but I'm sure you know, we time things will change and and and a fully on those and fully appreciate that. Now, if anyone wants to connect with you or, you know, get a look at the book, called you at conversation of flight. What's the best way to get old of your just say yeah, so, just good a Justin Michael on Linkedin and you can just send me a message and for now I will like email you a pdf or share the book with you technology portion. It's called Tq, which is distinct from IQ and Equ and we're doing this because it's the state of the world right now. Like the goal is to release it on kindle through a publisher in four to six months, but this is like real time information. Nothing is still in this book. It's being looked at right now by practitioners like you, just going adjusting, Michael and Linkedin. Send me a paying and invite a message and I will add you to the book. I'd love to even get your you know your inside and what you think about the stuff. It's a living document for now and I think it's going to help thousands of people right now do better where they are, which is like my altruistic and intention. No, not to sell a book or service for the time being, just to help people everywhere, help sellers on the foot of Wad. Once again, many things for all time. Today, just and you was an upsode pressure toy on the show. Thanks early and he's kind of in a really appreciate you, guys. operatics has redefined the meaning of revenue generation for technology companies worldwide. While the traditional concepts of building and managing inside sales teams inhouse has existed for many years. Companies are struggling with a lack of focus, agility and scale required in today's fast and complex world of enterprise technology sales. See How operatics can help your company accelerate pipeline at operatics dotnet. You've been listening to be tob revenue acceleration. To ensure that you never miss an episode, subscribe to the show in your favorite podcast player. Thank you so much for listening. Until next time,.

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