B2B Revenue Acceleration
B2B Revenue Acceleration

Episode · 2 years ago

82. The Best Strategies for B2B Revenue Acceleration

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

It’s the 2nd anniversary of the B2B Revenue Acceleration podcast!

Our anniversary episode is dedicated to you — our clients, partners, and friends — who bring so much value to the work we do.

We are privileged today to hear from 5 outstanding guests,  Didi Dayton, Partner at Wing Venture Capital, Nathan Burke, CMO at Axonius,Bob Kruse, CRO at Obsidian Security, Timm Hoyt, Global VP, Partner Sales & Alliances at Druva, and Patrick Conte, VP of Business Development at Fortanix, about their best strategies for B2B revenue acceleration.

 

What we talked about:

- The best sales, marketing, & channel tactics for the global pandemic

- What is & isn’t essential right now

- Focusing on quality rather than quantity

- Positioning yourself for B2B revenue acceleration in uncertain times

 

To hear this interview and many more like it, subscribe to The B2B Revenue Acceleration Podcast on Apple Podcasts, on Spotify, or on our website.

You were listening to bb revenue acceleration, a podcast dedicated helping software executive stay on the cutting edge of sales and marketing in their industry. Let's get into the show. Hi, welcome to be to be a revenue acceleration. My name is or aim with it, and today's a bit of a special episode because it's our second anniversary of recording the B to be revenue acceleration, but cast we have now over tenzero done loads. Thank you very much people for listening to what we're doing is spend a bit of time doing it, so it's good to have a to have people consuming the content. It's our eighty four episodes and the topic today is is around the best strategies for B to be a revenue acceleration and what we want you to do. We wanted to have a format slightly different from from what we traditionally do, which is usually a one to one, and we wanted to invite some people that are some of them clients, some of them partners, friends, but people we've seen doing some great stuff over the less you years, just so they can share their best practices, mistakest thing they've seen in the trenches around the best strategies for B to be revenue acceleration. So before we get started, I'm going to ask every single one of the guests to shortly introduce themselves and we're going to start with DDPEAS I get morning everyone. Thanks so much for the time. I appreciate it. I'm honored to be year and my name is Dedi Dayton. I'm a partner with wing venture capital. We're based in Pale Alto and we're an early stage investor and terms of my background, sales for many, many years. I'm very passionate about selling and love hearing some of the new ideas that are out there. I was an operator for twenty years before joining venture and my focus area was in cybersecurity and in leveraging indirect sales and building out global sales teams. So very thrilled to be here. Thank you. On the foot, Nathan John Jamain going next. Sure. Hey, so I'm Nathan Burke. I'm the chief marketing officer at Exonius and this is my third cyber security start up, my fifth startup overall. I'm a glutton for punishment or another. I love building things from scratch, going from idea to having a product in the world and getting out the market. So thanks for having me, Surplesi on Nathan Tim Jamain going next. Sure, hey, great to be back again. Tim Hoyite, I lead the global partners alliances organizations for a company called Drew Ba, venture backed start up. I've said, my career running sales organizations both domestically and internationally, half of that being over in Europe at that thing in US publicly traded and privately held companies. So appreciate being here and look forward to a good conversation. Thank you, Tim. Then you want to go next to everybody knows you. You are the cause something ill. Oh Yeah, yeah, promotion to the cohost of the BTB Revenue Acceleration podcast. I guess about a year or so. Go now on the bbfs operatic stopping the company. About five and a half years, I guess. Kind of stand for everything that the company's done for now promote it part from the from the bottom up. So any other program that we're running the companies like yourself, Nathan, I was one one time doing that and now obviously working closely with the Redan on this podcast and our company as a hope, but dormin getting next and just giving us a quick short teams throw as to as to you and what you do. Yeah, absolutely so. I'M CR OF OBSIDIAN security today and we've been here for about eight nine months. Prior to that I was at the MST where I worked with operatics and the MIA specifically, and I've been in Cyber Security for twenty years or something like that. Forever feels like. But yeah, it's been fun. I've done every job from inside sales to field sales, channel alliances and obviously go to market leader as well. So kind of understand how the sausage is made, so to speak. I like that. Well, we've got less of experience to that. That's absolutely wonderful. So thank you all for your introductions. We will have one gears at Willer. That's will. That will jump on the fly as as we go to when he comes on board. La I'll ask you to introduce himself briefly. But today we really want to keep the conversation open, interactive, non scripted, passionate and we really want to share with origin some of the what you believe are your most valuable tips and expence of driving revenue growth within the BB Tech Wal so we could be recent technique. It could be things that you're planning on doing that you just realize now but you've not putting practice right away. But, as we say, ladies fell so I started with dd for the introduction, so I'm going to start with you with the first question, and that question is pretty straightforward in the simple but at the same time wide open. But but from your perspective, what are the strategies or tactics that you've seen vendors implement...

...being the most successful? I generating room you group? Well, I think this period of nationwide and global pandemic is served to teach us a lot. And when the going gets tough, the tough get creative. So what I've seen is this massive insurgence of creative thinking and a lot more flexibility from customers as well. So, in terms of our startups, most of them are stretching their dollars and turning everyone in the sales people, everyone in the organization, is tasked with finding new opportunities and helping develop them. The key things are doing to maintain focus during the speriod is to reduce their burn rates and to keep at least eighteen months of cash on hand whenever possible. Twelve months really at a minimum. They're leveraging, you know, they're vc these their leveraging their channel partners to reduce a lot of their capital expenses and and, you know, making sure that they're not using all their cash. So they're trying to keep that very close at hand. They're also leveraging shifting some of their teams. So, for example, I saw one organization that turned their recruiters, where they were previously hiring at a rapid pace, they shifted their recruiters to as drs and I thought that was really interesting. For where. They're leveraging agencies to help them accelerate, you know, finding deals like operatics, and we've certainly work together on on several of our startups that have utilized you guys to find new deals and build pipeline. I'm also seeing, from a customer side, a lot of use of artificial intelligence and automation to streamline cost savings and find ways of accelerating their new projects. And it's also an era of new fiscal responsibility. So, you know, CFOs are approving everything and they're much more tactical in terms of what they're willing to do. The the final thing that I'll just kind of close with is. If you look at sales compensation, I think we're ready now for a whole lot more creativity and everyone from the CFO down seems to be much more willing to compensate sales for driving the right behaviors instead of just looking at revenue from a binary perspective. You either win or lose a deal. It's much more now about the ink from mental steps that you can take to get your sales team focused in the right places, and most of that is around relationship building with your customer. And you know, I know Nathan, your CMO, it's really developing relationships is everything right now and maintaining that relationship over time with your customers, finding ways of understanding them and being much more explicit about your account based marketing. For US internally it's about, it's been about doing individual based marketing, if that's a term, so finding ways to motivate a single interaction and getting the most out of that interaction possible for both sides. Yeah, that's a lot, but there you go. But as a very source for probably of a good thousands of question to ask you that to dig into the detail, but I'm going to focus on the on the main one I've got so up. I like what you said about the involvement of the CFO and and we've seen that a lot. We've seen a lot of you know, we walk with lots of sales people. Are Probably think that we've got into tool with all our clients. We probably have a good two thousand, two thousand seals people at all. So I'll be seeing us as a company. Okay. And with that you've got a bunch of them that are really good at creating the value and really start early in the cycle. They will go. They don't need to find an opportunity. You don't need you to find an opportunity. They've got fifty on dred key accounts to go after. They just want you to put them at the right level in front of the right people, and then they will. They will create the opportunity. And then at the also, and you've got what I called the deal to deal transaction. You know, the people would just want to take the deal and basically they expect the Bedea, they expect esda forward. We do it really almost provide them the deal opportunity on the golden plateau so they can go and grab the grab the purchase order and I would like to to get yourselts and I don't know if you seen that, but have you seen a lot of your partner clients, some of the companies in your part for you, actually changing the steps of their cell cycle to start early or to try to grab a CFO? Or they are redoing the budget because since covid up, and you know it's it's a little bit crazy, the priorities will not priorities anymore. Maybe we've got new priorities. What do we do with our money? To Invest? We not invest. I personally believe that for ourselves, person it's Jet Butt because people are finding out a new way. They are they need someone to tell them what to do. So if you start at the right level, you should see that as a massive opportunity to actually go and create opporunity for yourself. Okay, but, and it's not just a question for the debate the way, but have you guy seen people adapting to that? Because we found it really slow and even to this day to day we still saying to...

...some of our clients were probably larger company less start to pe, say well, we need to get yourselfs gate to go and sell. We can't find band qualified opportunities. You know, the need doll in the eyst he's even multificult right now. So see, yeah, just just we should do dd but to the rest of the group. That's kind of my long wind winded question. I do see an amplification and the amount of selling that's going on in pitching. So there's definitely a lot more interest in for us, making connections, you know, into our customer base, but we're also being much more judicious about when we make those and how. What I will say for you is, you know, teaching a founder, who's a very intelligent person, but typically an engineer, to sell. The first thing that we do is teach them not to talk about feature and functionality but really now, more than ever, because we're pitching into the EXO, is to focus on finding business drivers and really tailoring your message so that you're aiming for what will make them better. Right. This is not about you finding a problem and trying to find a solution and pitch that. It's much more about talking about their business and aiming for what. What are the pain points in their business? Either to make money or to stop spending money and shifting a lot of that sales messaging around. You know, the CFO and particular, doesn't really care about what your technology does. What they care about is selling more of what they do or spending less on getting to market. Right. So those are the things that I would recommend, and that's what I'm hearing a lot, is please tailor your messaging to our needs as a business, as opposed to pitching your solution as a future functionality. Absolutely, he did. SISTEM. I think one of the things we've seen in particularly the past three months of amplify that significantly. But it's always been true, which is helping forge clear economic linkages to business outcomes rather than the feature functionality, and then make those direct correlations as well as indirect ones. And in order to do that, I think it's important for the marketing organization to be tuning next net message to Omni channels and through all the different macro touch points. And for a seller, whether you are a direct seller or a partner Reseller, it requires more work. Right. You have to take some more time to actually be proactively thinking about what is this customer? You know situation they're going through, a base upon are they in the industry that's maybe been impacted do I ready have. I known them for years and maybe I've got a chance to help them there. But it requires more thoughtful preparation. And then I think a huge part of it and selling is the empathy or sympathy side, is being able to make sure that you are asking questions, allow that person to share me a little bit more and these unprecedented times that allows you to authentically right, not auling street chase, but authentically connect your value propt back to that economic linkage versus. We can be faster than the other. You attack provider, where the case will be in the future functionality. So I think we're seeing at a bit in our space, but directly as we go to market within users as well as through our indirect routs, and I think what we'll marketing function can also see seals. Is that. You know, the feeling behind the question I ask is really around the face that people up. The way I felt, and I've been in this conversation for you know, pushing operatics and speaking to people about our services. People just hitting us and so what thus of people doing? What on the what's the rest of the world doing? And they're looking for that guidance of someone, I can tell them more. Look, you know, I'm not going to speak about my product here for a sec I'm going to tell you about what I'm saying in the market. But instead of saying well, this is people are just buying all stuff, you've got to almost play devil advocate and never know, Nest Vision on steppending in the market. And I think this is also getting can help with that story, because where you've got the story about your product and obviously, how you can help them. And you know, it's pretty straightforward that, I guess, because this is what you are doing before looking at the options and being able to wait the options, being able to have that conversation, for me, is almost the conversation at to seem with a Ras on the seals person prior co of it, and I think you know whis covid you've got to be able to say all of these are distry options that you can go for, you can do it yourself, you can use us, you can use one of full competitors or you can just get a bunch of people of shot doing it for you, for example. Okay, let me take you through this, the scenarios, and we're going to speak at the in the meantime, you're going to tell me about your business and where you see and that's why you learn from them. And I really think that creating that story, creating that open story of not trying to sell to them but actually really truly genuinely saying, look, this is bad for everyone's let me try to help you here and I won't push my Stub, but I will let's tray to find us the best solution for you and being conservative ultimately get people...

...to come back in your net. There is that trieverse psychology thing where you said, well, you know, I may not be the best solution for you. Well, actually, that makes prospect likes you. So it's kind of a it's kind of a technique that is starting from a very good, you know, main set of trying to help and being consultative. But actually what I realize through the process and working with clans and speaking with lots of clients is that if he's done in a very honest, kind of blunt way of we may not be the resolution for you, people actually respect that much more someone was trying to put something down their throat. I guess the build on times point around showing him, they and simply some instances and trying to really value the solution and tailor to the prospect of speaking to I've been interested to know you also thought on this native I mean from the spect how we sell a lot ratics. We wait for about the importance of doing that, not only the fish benefit, not leaving to function act, but really leaving meeting with the B and that's something that we've always kind of fun at all interest in your those name and if you are saying Martin spent, that has actually shifted in recent time or that's something that you convoy. Yeah, it's funny, because two things on that. The first is everybody starts with what you just said. Everyone starts with feature function they like. Every single time, the first message is check out all of these features and and you've got to you've got to ring that back. But from what you were saying earlier, that's what I like to call selling the approach and and I really love that. Right. So you've got you have a problem. If you wanted to solve that, how would you do that? Right, let's I'm just going to put an approach in front of you. Forget about my product. Right, if you were to solve that, you would need to do these things and here's one way you could do it. Now, if you buy into that approach, whether you're going to use my product to do it or you're going to try to do it on your own. That's what I love selling before we even talked about a product. Right. So, for what we do at exonious, I say are if you wanted to know everything about every asset, how would you do it? Right, and I walk through. This is how we would build a solution right now. And does this make sense? Yes, all right, cool. So, once I get you to understand our approach, that's the only sale I'm trying to do, because I feel like if you agree with this approach, our product is going to do that. So I won't even talk about the the product until we've already agreed that this is an approach that makes sense for you and and it seems to work. And if you talk about product too early, it just turns people off because they're sick of it. I've right. And if you look at it that as a as an approach that I approach. You mention your globs and for punishment across you your five different stuff. That that you worked at. So is this something that you've always been doing or is it something that you've seen in a shift in recent time, during recent time pocket thread? Yeah, I think it's definitely something that I've learned over time and it's it's something that's evolved and I think that's part of, you know, the overall strategy that I've developed, and you know, the way I like to think of it is, if there's only if there's one strategy that's worked for me, for every company, and part of its reverse engineering. But then now it's it's on purpose and plan. That way is trying to figure out the intersection between motivation and behavior, and I know that's super academic, but let me tell you what I mean by it so I can make a little more tangible. Right. So, if you think of like the typical be to be lead to sell process, you've got someone that shows up at your site and they see a big like get a demo button. Now what does that mean to them? It means I click, that salesperson is going to hound me, I'm going to get on a sixty minute call and they're going to push a product on my throat. So it's a pretty high bar to click that button. And so what is their actual motivation? The motivation is they've got a problem. They want to figure out if your thing solves that problem. And so most companies, I don't know if it's many, but most companies, they'll do everything they can to get somebody to click that button and talk to a salesperson because they want to sell them something, anything, right. So it means they're not providing answers up front and they're hiding everything behind the form. They don't show the product. And so, knowing that like the behavior that the prospect becomes, you know they're probably not going to do that until it's the the last possible resort and they're going to actually bail and go back to search and see if somebody else answers it forum. And so what can we do about that? Right, so what are the tactics that you can use to counter that mismatch behind the motivation behavior? So the first thing is we can show the product, right, so videos and dupt documentation, all of those things. We can let them try the product, which is blasphemy, and Cybersecurity, right, nobody lets you try the thing in cybersecurity. But we could do that and then we could do things that are really creative and I like the DD said earlier. So we just tried something that we called the invisible webinar and the idea was, or invisible demo, whatever you want to call it. The idea was the bar is high to get on that sales call, right, so what if we did something where we showed exactly what you would see on a sales demo? You have to sign up for anything, you can be totally a anonymous you can...

...ask questions through chat, right. So the people that aren't quite ready then, aren't ready to say I'm going to give you sixteen minutes to sell me something, they can see what they would see on a real demo. So the goal is, if we show enough value, then you're going to sign up and talk to a salesperson. So to me the idea is, like always are toward removing friction, giving that prospect exactly what they need to make a decision. and to me, a know is better than just a bunch of dusty names at a database and of that expecting, since I think that's a great strategy. Trying to get creative and also allow the customer to drive the conversation so you're adding value and not forcing them to give information about themselves and forcing a sales follow up because, frankly, it wastes everyone's time, wastes the sales people's time too, and their time is just as valuable, which is why, or I liked what you were saying about, you know, sometimes turning down the customer, that that can be a not just a tactic, but a real way of, you know, focusing on the customers that are relevant and where it's relevant to them. It's all that timing and finding the right message. Yeah, none of the things people are doing. Yeah, I was just gonna say it to your point. What is better from the sales perspective, having someone that's already interactive with your product, already seen it, already experienced it. Right. So we just launched our first like self service trial. We did it really limited and, you know, one of the first person, the first people that came through, immediately got up and running, got set up and then, in parallel, someone else from their team asked for a demo. The two of them got together and now six people are going to be on the demo call from the original one and they've already played with the product for a week. They already saved queries, they've already done all these like milestones that show us that they know what they're doing, that they've seen some value. How about that? On our first sales call versus a here's our slide. We were founded in this year. We have this much fun thing, like you, a wholly different conversation. Yeah, so, but I'm just going to tell to you because I know that I took CGM. Well, first of all, you account really remembered the exact to what that you win, but I think you want the descendbacks innovation. Is it righte? Yes, so I think that's pretty good. We that does send back out the second one being sorry. But but I also know through the work we do together that that's your guys are really quite straightforward about your Soli Shit. You give it out there for people to go and try it, very confident about about the the outcome that they would get, and you know in which you've build. So what are your social know that and and the conversations of home. Yeah, I mean, I was gonna SPEAK UP, Nathan drought, from interesting points. You know, it seems to be a perennial debate on somebody asks for free trial, is it a lead for the inside sales team to interact with? You know, how much self administration should there be? You know, deal at emails and things like that, and and you know how you know. Do you want to qualify? It's a product. Always engineering in the product side. You know they want to kind of make sure that somebody's guided and no potential leads left untouched, that sort of thing. Sales wants to control everything and you just give everybody a big bear hug and try to talk to him. So it's a it's a debate on whether or not how much selfadministration should we have, versus to we go ahead and just start attacking them with our sales awesomeness. So that, I mean, it's an active debate internally right now. So whenever you've got half an hour, I will show you exactly how we came to the conclusion and how we built it, because we put a ton of thought into that too, and this is like literally three days in having it. So we're it's brand new and we've put a lot of thought into it. It was a lot of fun out well, I tell you, that first one come through was like magic. Look at you, your smile. I love that. Yeah, very fascinative on it. Some points called by marketing at Deconius. Well, yeah, and my previous company, to Missto it was our number one lead source and I think it kind of had more of the self administration, you know, less sales awesomeness involved. And but then again, you know, in the COVID era everything's like so dear. When we get a lead, we just want to leg tackle and and you know, Polish it. Yeah, you know, it just yeah, so I'll definitely take up on that, Nathan, for sure. But sorry, and have of interest. you run me invisible Webino. I'm not sure when that was, but I'm busy contact one. were making visibles that. Have you seen any of those come to fruition yet? Right, so I'll tell you. It's too early to say, because the first one, who was an abject failure because the tape, so I swear to you, and I shot a video and didn't like then, but I practiced this fifteen times, no question right, and the day that it went live the stream just didn't work. It didn't work at all. So I had, you know, a hundred and fifty or so people on the site and I could see...

...them all saying, I think there's a technical problem, and so it didn't work at all. But what I did is so I ended up just putting because I had practiced fifteen times, I had actually recorded a run through, so I put the run through the on and then I sent, you know, to everyone in the database, I sent a note saying, you know, this was a failure whatever and we're going to do it again. And that was like a month ago. I finally got over it and crawled out from under the settles do this thing right and figured out the technology. But a crazy thing happened, which is immediately I started getting emails from people that would never ever answer my email before, and they're all pretty much the same. One part making fun of me, which is totally valid. That's what you get for calling it an invisible webinar. It was. It was perfectly invisible, like, okay, you guys got me, I'm going to change the name next time. But then it was. But you know what, like this happens to everybody. Anyone is that's been in technology for more than a minute has had something like this happened. And I'll check out the video and tell me when you're doing the next one. And it was staggery. How many people did that? And not only that, and I swear to you I didn't design it to way. Not only that, we had more demo request that day than any other day in history of the cup. And yes, some of them already turned into opportunities that were just a month ago. So yeah, I mean, obviously you don't plan to fail. It's a lot of it is in how you respond to it. But I think that's the other thing about right now is that I think people understand that there are going to be mistakes and that we're all kind of human right now and nobody's going to be perfect. I mean, every zoom call you're on, you usually you'll see a dog run through here or a six year old or whatever. Right, people are are much more willing to understand when things like this happen. But but yeah, so I think that was a good example and we're going to try it again. I couldn't believe that there are that many people on it and I couldn't believe there are only people on it that couldn't see anything. So it was a blessing, Anna Curse. But yeah, we're going to try it again in a couple of weeks. But yeah, I think it does work because exactly that right. I want to see this thing, but I don't want to have to be part of a sales cycle yet. So she's just show me the thing and then if the thing is enough value, then great, I'll bring a couple of people in and you should ended touy Um and by making a slate mistakes it there in getting getting it, I'm in the first place, which is fantastic, and just just things we can I agree with you. Have thing to people appreciate the fight that you tray something you I think that's sort of so the defriends, you know, when theyverybody's again string to send stone at them. Everybody's trying was the same thing, to send Baiti's Day. I need ails in Linkedin, whatever you want. People just come and try to sell you some fake but you see something, I'm actually it's good. One thing I said, I was going to say. They'll just on that point. The one thing I've said a bunch of times is the next time big hack happens, like a Sony or target, I want to just go over to the window and put your head out and put your ear out the window and your here, you'll hear the sounds of a million power point next updating, because every single marketer is going to say we would have stopped the Sony target or whatever breach with our technology, like everyone. Thanks generation. Think that it's not just next judge's and next ens a next Gen. as a thank clause, we've got PAT pats. Thanks for draining us for know that you had a very important call, so we really appreciate that. You. You can come in and join us. We've us all our guests to very brief interchus them side. So you man, just giving us a quicker, quick in trust to you, are we you walk quiz and yeah, just a quick we expect contact. Sure, sure, thanks air really and great to a see you again. Hello, Katerina, nice to see you too and nice to see everybody. Yeah, my name is Patrick County on the Vice President Business Development for Cyber Security Company, for Tanic, but I've I've known opera had for a long time because I hired them a couple of times in my previous company, High Trust, when I was running international business for for that company and Global Business Development. So let's see, I've been about me. This is my seventh start up, so obviously I haven't learned my lesson yet and it probably never will. And I think as everybody on this called probably feels your DNA changes at some point in time and you know exactly sure when that happens, but you certainly know what after happens. And you know looking forward to hopefully having another successful run here at Portannex and in back Portanics, unbeknownst to me, already started working with you guys in Europe and now we're going to expand into the US and doing some initiatives. So I'm very glad to see that and and I think it's think it's well learned on your all part. It's it's done making a taking advantage of our relationship, but without letting US know. Going behind my back to speak to Faltonis my go should have been mine, but well, you know, one of us those each other. Some drinks are really and so what will me to you? The last thing...

...we did that she ended up in a quite, to yea digitous situation. But that so just coming back to you, but very quickly. I mean, is there anything that you've seen? So I know that you guys have been doing lots of fine tuning, also at obsidy. And because you're like startups getting going. You've got covied opening in the in the midst of everything happening, and it's got too he's got to be even more difficult for you guys to can of find your feet, adapt to the situation and do everything at the same time. But but what have you seen? I've you seen anything or any any spots? Do not behave your from yourself. Team that you think is is. You know, you you could, you could do most mentioned of best practice. So some feat that that would recommend people are doing. Yeah, I mean I think it's an evolving story. We're all trying to figure out what the New Economy and situation, you know, means for the sale cycle that we're used to, because I think it's changing, obviously, and so you know, we're in a unique position, and maybe there's some other folks too, but we're trying to create a new space. You know, we call a cloud detection and response on CDR and you know we're very happy to see competitors of other people start using that same acronym. Kind of means it's catching on. Yeah, essentially, what we're trying to do is narrow the aperture and get very specific, because I think that what I found is that there may not be as many opportunities popping up, but the ones that are engaged are very real. So the quantities gone down with the qualities increased. Yeah, and one of the things we've done is, like, you know, we've gone right after the zoom usage trend here and try to protect zoom for the enterprises that seems to be able to provide our internal champions with the ability to surface it internally and, you know, bring it to their boss and that sort of thing. But so we're we're making some big bets zooms, one of them the vertical, as he knows, Fintech. You know, I think it's really really critical right now to again have as much focus and near the aperture as much as possible because, yea, you know, there's just you know, the one thing is is like everybody's trying to do a happy RV is zoom or something like that. You know, people are theoretically more available because they're locked online and on their desk, but I also think, you know, to Nathan's point, you know, if you stick your head out the window, you can hear people sending out zoom happy hours and, you know, alcohol kits and things like that. I think that's already worn out. Yeah, so the challenges is now an you do and you know, a finger painting kit? I don't know what he send out. So I mean that actually, that's a pretty good it is but anyway, just kidding. But you should keep an eye on this. I think it's an ever evolving to new economy. It's a new reality and I think, yeah, going to be a new sales. So just keep an our eye on it and trying to monitor and dial it every day. Yeah, and I think you know, try to zoom. Try to zoom pictionary with without the halt. That works our card cards against humanity. Maybe that's fantastic. That would you that. That would doubt the be. So we had all fast day back in do you offishally trendy a week or so ago, and we blake out against humanity at lunch time and and you know I did. I did indeed, with that game, with some singing and laughing like there's that, I managed to get some tracious combination. That's some some wouldn't appreciate, but there you go. But not, I think you know, one of the if had we've done with you, lass and what we realize through the conversation that we ad with you, but your team is the target market are shrinking. We can go after everyone like we used to do before. You know, if you look at obviously the US economy is quite large, but I'm friend. So if you look at the French economy, you look at the first forty accounts in front the Qeq forty, you've got their force, you've got are bus, you've got so dick so, which are basically a complied service company, a hotel, you know. So out of the check forty, that's already ten percent that you can't address. I mean those guys are in in a terrible situation. But then I can go on pusual runos try and, you know, value, which is suppledg of all those guys. So you end up with a current CAC forty that is basically a KCT twenty. And I think this is why, you know things needs to addapt because it's almost like you can't address as much people as you could be for us, and I think it's important for sales, as we said, seals should spend more time addressing better what's left to address, and marketing should support them in doing so, you know, and the story should be there and and then after I think it's a conversation of getting into the accounts and, despite the fact that you have less and despite the fact that you owned the pressure to make numbers, it's to have a conversation of thing will look. Tell me what you're trying to achieve from a business perspective. I'm going to tell you what work, but I canna tell you about the value we can bring. But we need to see if there is a much on no match. But your point also is that most of...

...for colons, I said ninety percent of the people we work with. We've also at events with like CIO or online stuff that we've done with is Sei, UCIS, so ctus, you name it, some people who are making decision in buying. Everybody's saying the same thing. When a decision is made, the cell cycles are fifty percent the lens of what they were before. It doesn't take nine months anymore to get things done. You know, when we have decided to do something in stree months time, is implemented and and the thing that there is a sort of velocity in the cell cycle, in the decision making process. But you know, from my personal perspective, I do believe that cells needs to addapt in the mob. I know it sounds a little bit cliche, but that challenge yourselves, methodology, that challenge ourselves, method of going to the prospect and actually not trying to sell them something, but trying to help them, trying to under some what they're trying to achieve. And so, you know what, you're not for me, like you would do on the date. You know you could date with someone. She's extremely good looking or is extremely good looking, so on the first safe of it's going to be a good one. And then you speak to them and there is nothing inside and you'll be like laughs, you know, that's not for me. I don't really want to see you again. You won't force yourself for you and I think you should do the same in a cell cycle and not be scared of not finding another beautiful person that you could emit, because you know it's if you unfull for lad he is probably not what matters to you. And and hugging the opportunity trying to push people to do things. Being insistent won't give you anything in the cell cycle. It will actually retake people. So so, yeah, but that's that's makes to sense on that. Yeah, I mean I think you know goes about saying there's going to be haven't had knots, winners and losers. I think it's going to be a pretty start line, given this economy. You know, clearly I forgot the acronym, but it's basically you know, anything in tourism hotels like course you mentioned hurting right, very much so. But you know what, I think overall not to be you know, poor ten doom. But you know, clearly, you know the US of a is doing a really crappy job on this, on the covid thing, and you know it kind of waiting for the next economic shoot to drop as a result of kind of you know what's going on out there. So it's there. Everybody's kind of a wait and see. To d these point earlier is cash preservation mode and I've got a lot of resumes my inbox, but anyway, it's it's still kind of a wait and see mode for a lot of folks. Yeah, yeah, and we foken broken narrow guess about from out the mult expect tim the channels. Time. Nathan sharing some of this dropt togg against that. What time for him and some of the things they point more recently to have short time positive impact. But what if some of the strategies you've got utilize, I guess, could be robust through through both the previous Evenus, if the actually well, if you move different companies, your scenario? Well, I think, just to play off a litt bit of the last commentary, I absolutely agree that the history of the future is not yet fully written. But I think early in your commentary about, you know, the CAC forty, as others shrinking actually could be a favorable thing ultimately, because how many times did we kid ourselves that we could actually hit every customer? Need segmentation wise, vertical wise, etc. So some of that natural consolidation of the lovely partner potentials and the bar has gone down quite dramatically and so it gives us a lot, you know, I think, more target rich environment and to some of things that Nathan was talked about about, you know, being more specific and intent on how you reach out to those and getting some of these classical sales and marketing internal disputes of what is a good mql Tos ql and having that Dick Ring and fighting. I think there's a lot of really forget the humanistic side and the economic sided. I'm sobered all that being intensely catastrophic, but there's always a silver lying touch wood. I think this could be an amazing way for be to be selling and marketing and GTM to actually learn a lot right and get out some of the laziness and maybe some of the habits that we performed over the past twenty years of enterprise p tob selling. So as it as it relates to the partner side of things, you know, I think some of the tried and true pieces that I've seen both as a direct seller and a partner seller, is one know the customer right. So if you're a vendor and you have a you know, an intent or in direct sales motion, far too often I find that the the customer which is right is the end user and that's where all of the cross functional alignment attention goes, the website, the branding, the DG campaigns, the order administration focus, etc. And then that partner side of the business is often neglected and depending upon what percentage of that business is already, or you're intended to have come generated from your partners, which ultimate is what you're trying to get them to do. Looking at your partner community as the customer and...

...having a separate, dedicated motion that still blends in well with all the things you're trying to do of ease of doing business, of the narrative in the story, of the the company's value, proper business objectives and technical differentiation, but really treating that for how a partner consumes and what language they need to ultimately become a extension of your sales force, which is which is what we're trying to go do, so that that's something that has been tried and true and and in times like these is is even more critical. We're finding is is some of commentary has been is shoot a lot of ours. You know, our partner sellers right a big resellers at the regional boutique bars, at the Global Siye, they're in the same spot that many of the customers are, which is I can't go see my customer, I'm sit in front of my laptop. My tradition, little things of selling that maybe have been, you know, on Prem Centric, and maybe that nice to have, not a must have or being delayed. What are the things I can go sell now? And I think it creates an opportunity for maybe bom things like you guys are doing, creating a new new market, which is hey, this isn't something that's oversaturated. That next server, that next laptop or that next piece of software. And how do you then? Can you have the right enablement, the right messaging, the right empowerment for that partner to allow them to take your message going forward so that, knowing your partners are customers, there is a critical element in times of froppiness and times of blast half half empty as well. Yeah, I comment on that, of course. Yeah, I think you're touching on some great points there, Tim and, and I think that speaks to the changing nature of relationships where a customer as a partner and a partner is an advocate and not just looking at sort of these traditional, somewhat limited views of what a relationship and business interaction needs to look like. And a lot of that is being driven by cloud and by, you know, technology and artificial intelligence and automation and a lot of these tools that are giving us new insights and also the ability I think, for organizations to conceive of new ways of doing business, and that's driven also by necessity. So just a couple things that I'm seeing from the VC side is these's are getting a lot more creative also, and a lot more supportive with their early stage companies. They're making a lot more connections. But we're doing things like customer advocate round tables where you have a customer that is in a room with multiple vendors and or one vendor in with multiple customers and it's a round table to talk about a specific discussion topic. I'm also seeing stacking of solutions and doing demo days where you have multiple values that are blended into one architectural solution, one stack. So we're working right now, for example, on the remote stack and what goes into that. You know what products and solutions can be really optimistic and optimizing for your remote workforce management? A lot of solutions right now are focusing on, you know, deriving insights with artificial intelligence and how do you get your sales teams to become better at what they do by aggregating all of the conversations at every seller's had with every customer and getting insights from those from solutions, you know, like Gong and Clary and we have another one called set sale. That's a spiff and enhancing solution. So elevating the conversation by using tools and getting more to the heart of what that customer needs at that time. I think that's really you know, synthesizing what's going on in the market and then not limiting the conversation with a single entity and maybe real looking at your supply chain and your workforce and your customer base and all your constituencies and trying to find opportunities that exceed what would be the sort of traditional relationship. Ye, now, that was a lot, but there's really would make sense not during a conversation. Yeah, thank you'll makes sense and you know, it's very, very valuable insight from your sight. Pat. You know, you a portrait to as someone who's got to a tremendous atrophic experience and both side of the Atlantic. I know that you've been direct sells lots of channel relationship as well. What are the do and dawn? So what would be, you know, if you had one thing to say in some of best practice that you see it in one specific regional differences with basically, I just want to open up to you to get a bit of your insight on the conversations. If I know that you can have jump on on the conversation as we go. I want to give you a bread from to kind of show you experience. Yeah, yeah, thanks, thanks all really and person of all, I just wanted to say a lot the DD. I know Peter Wagner very well. He was on my board at top spin. So please say hello when you when you talk to him. Amazing. So, yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely so. So one thing I want to do, I want to comment on, is I think all the rules of the last, you know, decade or so of how...

...you build businesses and different geographies and whatnot are being tested right now and I don't think they're going to be the same one we come out of this. I'm very interesting to see how employed years act our employers and and other companies and whatnot, because they've squeezed more productivity out of us and they ever got before. Right. I mean I'm sure all of you guys all have the same kind of calendar that I do. I mean it's, you know, the day to be. I'm I live on the west coast but you know, my day typically starts at seven. I've got my first first call at seven and it's basically through the day until about well of hours later. And when it's time to shut it down and go, you know, go, go, have a meal and some family time and then and then you've got to catch up with the stuff that you couldn't get you during the day because you're our meetings all day. So I mean we're, you know, our employers are getting more out of us. When it when this thing finally does, you know, when, when the whole covid scenario does flatten out, which it will eventually, at some stage, somehow, it'll flatten out, whether it's whether it's from a you know, a vaccine or you know, just, you know, finally countries getting it right as far as when, when and how and how deeply the lockdown, but it will flatten out. And at that point in time will, you know, will the things that we've learned from how to do business in a different way? Will they still be there? Will we capitalize on them, or will we go back to the old ways? Right, some of our some of our less productive habit right, you know, a lot of car travel between meetings and things like that that there was. There was a dead time, right, but that resulted in more facetoface stuff. I think we've proven that we can do business this way and it isn't it isn't optimal, but if possible and you can make the most out of it. And I think that those are the things that are being they are being proven out. The question is whether or not, though, remain after we you know, after after things flattened out of it. So I think my first comment really is, I don't you know, I don't really know that the things that were proven out over the last ten years or the last four years. We've known each other when I was working in international markets from my previous company and spending a lot of time in London and a lot of time in Australia and a few other places. I don't know that. I don't know that, you know, the techniques that we use them would will necessarily be as effective when we come out of it. So I think we had, you know, one thing, one thing I do believe is that in any kind of tech business, flexibility is the most important thing, right, and you know, I'm you know, I'm kind of you know, I kind of believe that, you know, Shit always goes sideway. It is going to happen. I mean you're you know your businy. You know that no matter how well you plan, your business is going to go sideway because the economy is going to change, or the technology landscapes are going to change with the competitive environment is going to change, or or you're going to have some some you know, catechorlism with your own technology or one of your big competitors and will shake up the entire market. And here we have the exact evidence of that right only all rolled into one. So you know, I think that the most important thing that companies can do, regardless of whether it's, you know, ones that have a US focus, ones that have a focus and other theaters for that are global, is you have to constantly challenge your assumptions about what are the critical things that you did to build your company, like what was that one? What was that fundamental problem that you set out to solve? Is it so fundamental? You have to challenge those assumptions and if that's still holds, then you have to go to the next stage, which is who am I solving this for? Has that change now? And they have to go to the next one, which is the person within that company. That would be a hero if I solve this problem six months ago, if you still the guide, right, and how do I package my product so that it can be consumed in this new world? Right, you've got to take it all the way down, and that the end of at the end of that chain, is how do I build the company to support that chain, because you can't put the company in the middle or at the front, because then when the market changes, the company thrashes. Right, it's just like you kind of pull that chain tight that you know, that's how that's how start up companies have to pivot many, many times, is because they take the company and they think it too close to the fundamental problem at the company needs to be built at the end of that chain. It needs be able to support all of those pieces. But you have to go back to the assumption, right, did you did? Did the assumption of the assumptions hold? They hold even in this current time. Friend, and for my current company, Portanex, which is a soccer security company focused on encrypting in a different way than we've encrypted before. Will focus on encrypting data in use. The really only two ways to encrypt data winners that use, and one of them is sort of experimental...

...and the other one is the way we do it, which is based on an underlying Intel technology. But yeah, the fact that the matter is you could always think crypt stuff at rest in emotion, but now you have to protect stuff the use, in use, because that's where the bad guys have been coming and getting your data. So that that fundamental assumption that that was going to be a critical need and the industry is still there, right. I mean we but we had to go back and we had to challenge that. Then we had to challenge how do we consume it? Yeah, so I think that you know, regardless of the theater, those are those are things that you've got to you've got to do, and that makes sense. But fortunate at least time flies by when you are having fun and we getting to the end of yeah, well else. So we, I'm sure that all of your gays have thozon meeting some invisible with you now to run some clients, to set us stuff to except try excess for us. So I just want you to think you all for your time to day. Really appreciate the fends you took the thing to come in and show some of your sorts with us, really enjoy the congustion of could have gotten on a was a week of that conversation. I just love it. And then we picked your gays because we know that you old quastinate about your subject. So so, yeah, we could have gone on so much, much longer. We will show all your contact details with when we published a podcast, so it may be defended. People wants to get in touch with you to discuss folso and show yoursels how engage are on your solutions or whatever, and we would also produce a block bus. But once again, I want you to thank you all for your time today. Was An absolutely absolute pleasure to have you on the show. Thank you, heynousing. Thank you. Thank you guys. Thank you, thank you, guys. Thanks so much for buddy. Stay, stay safe, guys. Bye Bye, bye. Right operatics has redefined the meaning of revenue generation for technology companies worldwide. While the traditional concepts of building and managing inside sales teams inhouse has existed for many years, companies are struggling with a lack of focus, agility and scale required in today's fast and complex world of enterprise. Technology sales. See How operatics can help your company accelerate pipeline at operatics dotnet. You've been listening to be tob revenue acceleration. To ensure that you never miss an episode, subscribe to the show in your favorite podcast player. Thank you so much for listening. Until next time,.

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