B2B Revenue Acceleration
B2B Revenue Acceleration

Episode · 1 year ago

82. The Best Strategies for B2B Revenue Acceleration

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

It’s the 2nd anniversary of the B2B Revenue Acceleration podcast!

Our anniversary episode is dedicated to you — our clients, partners, and friends — who bring so much value to the work we do.

We are privileged today to hear from 5 outstanding guests,  Didi Dayton, Partner at Wing Venture Capital, Nathan Burke, CMO at Axonius,Bob Kruse, CRO at Obsidian Security, Timm Hoyt, Global VP, Partner Sales & Alliances at Druva, and Patrick Conte, VP of Business Development at Fortanix, about their best strategies for B2B revenue acceleration.

 

What we talked about:

- The best sales, marketing, & channel tactics for the global pandemic

- What is & isn’t essential right now

- Focusing on quality rather than quantity

- Positioning yourself for B2B revenue acceleration in uncertain times

 

To hear this interview and many more like it, subscribe to The B2B Revenue Acceleration Podcast on Apple Podcasts, on Spotify, or on our website.

You were listening to bb revenue acceleration, a podcast dedicated helping software executive stay on the cutting edge of sales andmarketing in their industry. Let's get into the show. Hi, welcome tobe to be a revenue acceleration. My name is or aim with it,and today's a bit of a special episode because it's our second anniversary of recordingthe B to be revenue acceleration, but cast we have now over tenzero doneloads. Thank you very much people for listening to what we're doing is spenda bit of time doing it, so it's good to have a to havepeople consuming the content. It's our eighty four episodes and the topic today isis around the best strategies for B to be a revenue acceleration and what wewant you to do. We wanted to have a format slightly different from fromwhat we traditionally do, which is usually a one to one, and wewanted to invite some people that are some of them clients, some of thempartners, friends, but people we've seen doing some great stuff over the lessyou years, just so they can share their best practices, mistakest thing they'veseen in the trenches around the best strategies for B to be revenue acceleration.So before we get started, I'm going to ask every single one of theguests to shortly introduce themselves and we're going to start with DDPEAS I get morningeveryone. Thanks so much for the time. I appreciate it. I'm honored tobe year and my name is Dedi Dayton. I'm a partner with wingventure capital. We're based in Pale Alto and we're an early stage investor andterms of my background, sales for many, many years. I'm very passionate aboutselling and love hearing some of the new ideas that are out there.I was an operator for twenty years before joining venture and my focus area wasin cybersecurity and in leveraging indirect sales and building out global sales teams. Sovery thrilled to be here. Thank you. On the foot, Nathan John Jamaingoing next. Sure. Hey, so I'm Nathan Burke. I'm thechief marketing officer at Exonius and this is my third cyber security start up,my fifth startup overall. I'm a glutton for punishment or another. I lovebuilding things from scratch, going from idea to having a product in the worldand getting out the market. So thanks for having me, Surplesi on NathanTim Jamain going next. Sure, hey, great to be back again. TimHoyite, I lead the global partners alliances organizations for a company called DrewBa, venture backed start up. I've said, my career running sales organizationsboth domestically and internationally, half of that being over in Europe at that thingin US publicly traded and privately held companies. So appreciate being here and look forwardto a good conversation. Thank you, Tim. Then you want to gonext to everybody knows you. You are the cause something ill. OhYeah, yeah, promotion to the cohost of the BTB Revenue Acceleration podcast.I guess about a year or so. Go now on the bbfs operatic stoppingthe company. About five and a half years, I guess. Kind ofstand for everything that the company's done for now promote it part from the fromthe bottom up. So any other program that we're running the companies like yourself, Nathan, I was one one time doing that and now obviously working closelywith the Redan on this podcast and our company as a hope, but dormingetting next and just giving us a quick short teams throw as to as toyou and what you do. Yeah, absolutely so. I'M CR OF OBSIDIANsecurity today and we've been here for about eight nine months. Prior to thatI was at the MST where I worked with operatics and the MIA specifically,and I've been in Cyber Security for twenty years or something like that. Foreverfeels like. But yeah, it's been fun. I've done every job frominside sales to field sales, channel alliances and obviously go to market leader aswell. So kind of understand how the sausage is made, so to speak. I like that. Well, we've got less of experience to that.That's absolutely wonderful. So thank you all for your introductions. We will haveone gears at Willer. That's will. That will jump on the fly asas we go to when he comes on board. La I'll ask you tointroduce himself briefly. But today we really want to keep the conversation open,interactive, non scripted, passionate and we really want to share with origin someof the what you believe are your most valuable tips and expence of driving revenuegrowth within the BB Tech Wal so we could be recent technique. It couldbe things that you're planning on doing that you just realize now but you've notputting practice right away. But, as we say, ladies fell so Istarted with dd for the introduction, so I'm going to start with you withthe first question, and that question is pretty straightforward in the simple but atthe same time wide open. But but from your perspective, what are thestrategies or tactics that you've seen vendors implement...

...being the most successful? I generatingroom you group? Well, I think this period of nationwide and global pandemicis served to teach us a lot. And when the going gets tough,the tough get creative. So what I've seen is this massive insurgence of creativethinking and a lot more flexibility from customers as well. So, in termsof our startups, most of them are stretching their dollars and turning everyone inthe sales people, everyone in the organization, is tasked with finding new opportunities andhelping develop them. The key things are doing to maintain focus during thesperiod is to reduce their burn rates and to keep at least eighteen months ofcash on hand whenever possible. Twelve months really at a minimum. They're leveraging, you know, they're vc these their leveraging their channel partners to reduce alot of their capital expenses and and, you know, making sure that they'renot using all their cash. So they're trying to keep that very close athand. They're also leveraging shifting some of their teams. So, for example, I saw one organization that turned their recruiters, where they were previously hiringat a rapid pace, they shifted their recruiters to as drs and I thoughtthat was really interesting. For where. They're leveraging agencies to help them accelerate, you know, finding deals like operatics, and we've certainly work together on onseveral of our startups that have utilized you guys to find new deals andbuild pipeline. I'm also seeing, from a customer side, a lot ofuse of artificial intelligence and automation to streamline cost savings and find ways of acceleratingtheir new projects. And it's also an era of new fiscal responsibility. So, you know, CFOs are approving everything and they're much more tactical in termsof what they're willing to do. The the final thing that I'll just kindof close with is. If you look at sales compensation, I think we'reready now for a whole lot more creativity and everyone from the CFO down seemsto be much more willing to compensate sales for driving the right behaviors instead ofjust looking at revenue from a binary perspective. You either win or lose a deal. It's much more now about the ink from mental steps that you cantake to get your sales team focused in the right places, and most ofthat is around relationship building with your customer. And you know, I know Nathan, your CMO, it's really developing relationships is everything right now and maintainingthat relationship over time with your customers, finding ways of understanding them and beingmuch more explicit about your account based marketing. For US internally it's about, it'sbeen about doing individual based marketing, if that's a term, so findingways to motivate a single interaction and getting the most out of that interaction possiblefor both sides. Yeah, that's a lot, but there you go.But as a very source for probably of a good thousands of question to askyou that to dig into the detail, but I'm going to focus on theon the main one I've got so up. I like what you said about theinvolvement of the CFO and and we've seen that a lot. We've seena lot of you know, we walk with lots of sales people. AreProbably think that we've got into tool with all our clients. We probably havea good two thousand, two thousand seals people at all. So I'll beseeing us as a company. Okay. And with that you've got a bunchof them that are really good at creating the value and really start early inthe cycle. They will go. They don't need to find an opportunity.You don't need you to find an opportunity. They've got fifty on dred key accountsto go after. They just want you to put them at the rightlevel in front of the right people, and then they will. They willcreate the opportunity. And then at the also, and you've got what Icalled the deal to deal transaction. You know, the people would just wantto take the deal and basically they expect the Bedea, they expect esda forward. We do it really almost provide them the deal opportunity on the golden plateauso they can go and grab the grab the purchase order and I would liketo to get yourselts and I don't know if you seen that, but haveyou seen a lot of your partner clients, some of the companies in your partfor you, actually changing the steps of their cell cycle to start earlyor to try to grab a CFO? Or they are redoing the budget becausesince covid up, and you know it's it's a little bit crazy, thepriorities will not priorities anymore. Maybe we've got new priorities. What do wedo with our money? To Invest? We not invest. I personally believethat for ourselves, person it's Jet Butt because people are finding out a newway. They are they need someone to tell them what to do. Soif you start at the right level, you should see that as a massiveopportunity to actually go and create opporunity for yourself. Okay, but, andit's not just a question for the debate the way, but have you guyseen people adapting to that? Because we found it really slow and even tothis day to day we still saying to...

...some of our clients were probably largercompany less start to pe, say well, we need to get yourselfs gate togo and sell. We can't find band qualified opportunities. You know,the need doll in the eyst he's even multificult right now. So see,yeah, just just we should do dd but to the rest of the group. That's kind of my long wind winded question. I do see an amplificationand the amount of selling that's going on in pitching. So there's definitely alot more interest in for us, making connections, you know, into ourcustomer base, but we're also being much more judicious about when we make thoseand how. What I will say for you is, you know, teachinga founder, who's a very intelligent person, but typically an engineer, to sell. The first thing that we do is teach them not to talk aboutfeature and functionality but really now, more than ever, because we're pitching intothe EXO, is to focus on finding business drivers and really tailoring your messageso that you're aiming for what will make them better. Right. This isnot about you finding a problem and trying to find a solution and pitch that. It's much more about talking about their business and aiming for what. Whatare the pain points in their business? Either to make money or to stopspending money and shifting a lot of that sales messaging around. You know,the CFO and particular, doesn't really care about what your technology does. Whatthey care about is selling more of what they do or spending less on gettingto market. Right. So those are the things that I would recommend,and that's what I'm hearing a lot, is please tailor your messaging to ourneeds as a business, as opposed to pitching your solution as a future functionality. Absolutely, he did. SISTEM. I think one of the things we'veseen in particularly the past three months of amplify that significantly. But it's alwaysbeen true, which is helping forge clear economic linkages to business outcomes rather thanthe feature functionality, and then make those direct correlations as well as indirect ones. And in order to do that, I think it's important for the marketingorganization to be tuning next net message to Omni channels and through all the differentmacro touch points. And for a seller, whether you are a direct seller ora partner Reseller, it requires more work. Right. You have totake some more time to actually be proactively thinking about what is this customer?You know situation they're going through, a base upon are they in the industrythat's maybe been impacted do I ready have. I known them for years and maybeI've got a chance to help them there. But it requires more thoughtfulpreparation. And then I think a huge part of it and selling is theempathy or sympathy side, is being able to make sure that you are askingquestions, allow that person to share me a little bit more and these unprecedentedtimes that allows you to authentically right, not auling street chase, but authenticallyconnect your value propt back to that economic linkage versus. We can be fasterthan the other. You attack provider, where the case will be in thefuture functionality. So I think we're seeing at a bit in our space,but directly as we go to market within users as well as through our indirectrouts, and I think what we'll marketing function can also see seals. Isthat. You know, the feeling behind the question I ask is really aroundthe face that people up. The way I felt, and I've been inthis conversation for you know, pushing operatics and speaking to people about our services. People just hitting us and so what thus of people doing? What onthe what's the rest of the world doing? And they're looking for that guidance ofsomeone, I can tell them more. Look, you know, I'm notgoing to speak about my product here for a sec I'm going to tellyou about what I'm saying in the market. But instead of saying well, thisis people are just buying all stuff, you've got to almost play devil advocateand never know, Nest Vision on steppending in the market. And Ithink this is also getting can help with that story, because where you've gotthe story about your product and obviously, how you can help them. Andyou know, it's pretty straightforward that, I guess, because this is whatyou are doing before looking at the options and being able to wait the options, being able to have that conversation, for me, is almost the conversationat to seem with a Ras on the seals person prior co of it,and I think you know whis covid you've got to be able to say allof these are distry options that you can go for, you can do ityourself, you can use us, you can use one of full competitors oryou can just get a bunch of people of shot doing it for you,for example. Okay, let me take you through this, the scenarios,and we're going to speak at the in the meantime, you're going to tellme about your business and where you see and that's why you learn from them. And I really think that creating that story, creating that open story ofnot trying to sell to them but actually really truly genuinely saying, look,this is bad for everyone's let me try to help you here and I won'tpush my Stub, but I will let's tray to find us the best solutionfor you and being conservative ultimately get people...

...to come back in your net.There is that trieverse psychology thing where you said, well, you know,I may not be the best solution for you. Well, actually, thatmakes prospect likes you. So it's kind of a it's kind of a techniquethat is starting from a very good, you know, main set of tryingto help and being consultative. But actually what I realize through the process andworking with clans and speaking with lots of clients is that if he's done ina very honest, kind of blunt way of we may not be the resolutionfor you, people actually respect that much more someone was trying to put somethingdown their throat. I guess the build on times point around showing him,they and simply some instances and trying to really value the solution and tailor tothe prospect of speaking to I've been interested to know you also thought on thisnative I mean from the spect how we sell a lot ratics. We waitfor about the importance of doing that, not only the fish benefit, notleaving to function act, but really leaving meeting with the B and that's somethingthat we've always kind of fun at all interest in your those name and ifyou are saying Martin spent, that has actually shifted in recent time or that'ssomething that you convoy. Yeah, it's funny, because two things on that. The first is everybody starts with what you just said. Everyone starts withfeature function they like. Every single time, the first message is check out allof these features and and you've got to you've got to ring that back. But from what you were saying earlier, that's what I like to call sellingthe approach and and I really love that. Right. So you've gotyou have a problem. If you wanted to solve that, how would youdo that? Right, let's I'm just going to put an approach in frontof you. Forget about my product. Right, if you were to solvethat, you would need to do these things and here's one way you coulddo it. Now, if you buy into that approach, whether you're goingto use my product to do it or you're going to try to do iton your own. That's what I love selling before we even talked about aproduct. Right. So, for what we do at exonious, I sayare if you wanted to know everything about every asset, how would you doit? Right, and I walk through. This is how we would build asolution right now. And does this make sense? Yes, all right, cool. So, once I get you to understand our approach, that'sthe only sale I'm trying to do, because I feel like if you agreewith this approach, our product is going to do that. So I won'teven talk about the the product until we've already agreed that this is an approachthat makes sense for you and and it seems to work. And if youtalk about product too early, it just turns people off because they're sick ofit. I've right. And if you look at it that as a asan approach that I approach. You mention your globs and for punishment across youyour five different stuff. That that you worked at. So is this somethingthat you've always been doing or is it something that you've seen in a shiftin recent time, during recent time pocket thread? Yeah, I think it'sdefinitely something that I've learned over time and it's it's something that's evolved and Ithink that's part of, you know, the overall strategy that I've developed,and you know, the way I like to think of it is, ifthere's only if there's one strategy that's worked for me, for every company,and part of its reverse engineering. But then now it's it's on purpose andplan. That way is trying to figure out the intersection between motivation and behavior, and I know that's super academic, but let me tell you what Imean by it so I can make a little more tangible. Right. So, if you think of like the typical be to be lead to sell process, you've got someone that shows up at your site and they see a biglike get a demo button. Now what does that mean to them? Itmeans I click, that salesperson is going to hound me, I'm going toget on a sixty minute call and they're going to push a product on mythroat. So it's a pretty high bar to click that button. And sowhat is their actual motivation? The motivation is they've got a problem. Theywant to figure out if your thing solves that problem. And so most companies, I don't know if it's many, but most companies, they'll do everythingthey can to get somebody to click that button and talk to a salesperson becausethey want to sell them something, anything, right. So it means they're notproviding answers up front and they're hiding everything behind the form. They don'tshow the product. And so, knowing that like the behavior that the prospectbecomes, you know they're probably not going to do that until it's the thelast possible resort and they're going to actually bail and go back to search andsee if somebody else answers it forum. And so what can we do aboutthat? Right, so what are the tactics that you can use to counterthat mismatch behind the motivation behavior? So the first thing is we can showthe product, right, so videos and dupt documentation, all of those things. We can let them try the product, which is blasphemy, and Cybersecurity,right, nobody lets you try the thing in cybersecurity. But we coulddo that and then we could do things that are really creative and I likethe DD said earlier. So we just tried something that we called the invisiblewebinar and the idea was, or invisible demo, whatever you want to callit. The idea was the bar is high to get on that sales call, right, so what if we did something where we showed exactly what youwould see on a sales demo? You have to sign up for anything,you can be totally a anonymous you can...

...ask questions through chat, right.So the people that aren't quite ready then, aren't ready to say I'm going togive you sixteen minutes to sell me something, they can see what theywould see on a real demo. So the goal is, if we showenough value, then you're going to sign up and talk to a salesperson.So to me the idea is, like always are toward removing friction, givingthat prospect exactly what they need to make a decision. and to me,a know is better than just a bunch of dusty names at a database andof that expecting, since I think that's a great strategy. Trying to getcreative and also allow the customer to drive the conversation so you're adding value andnot forcing them to give information about themselves and forcing a sales follow up because, frankly, it wastes everyone's time, wastes the sales people's time too,and their time is just as valuable, which is why, or I likedwhat you were saying about, you know, sometimes turning down the customer, thatthat can be a not just a tactic, but a real way of, you know, focusing on the customers that are relevant and where it's relevantto them. It's all that timing and finding the right message. Yeah,none of the things people are doing. Yeah, I was just gonna sayit to your point. What is better from the sales perspective, having someonethat's already interactive with your product, already seen it, already experienced it.Right. So we just launched our first like self service trial. We didit really limited and, you know, one of the first person, thefirst people that came through, immediately got up and running, got set upand then, in parallel, someone else from their team asked for a demo. The two of them got together and now six people are going to beon the demo call from the original one and they've already played with the productfor a week. They already saved queries, they've already done all these like milestonesthat show us that they know what they're doing, that they've seen somevalue. How about that? On our first sales call versus a here's ourslide. We were founded in this year. We have this much fun thing,like you, a wholly different conversation. Yeah, so, but I'm justgoing to tell to you because I know that I took CGM. Well, first of all, you account really remembered the exact to what that youwin, but I think you want the descendbacks innovation. Is it righte?Yes, so I think that's pretty good. We that does send back out thesecond one being sorry. But but I also know through the work wedo together that that's your guys are really quite straightforward about your Soli Shit.You give it out there for people to go and try it, very confidentabout about the the outcome that they would get, and you know in whichyou've build. So what are your social know that and and the conversations ofhome. Yeah, I mean, I was gonna SPEAK UP, Nathan drought, from interesting points. You know, it seems to be a perennial debateon somebody asks for free trial, is it a lead for the inside salesteam to interact with? You know, how much self administration should there be? You know, deal at emails and things like that, and and youknow how you know. Do you want to qualify? It's a product.Always engineering in the product side. You know they want to kind of makesure that somebody's guided and no potential leads left untouched, that sort of thing. Sales wants to control everything and you just give everybody a big bear hugand try to talk to him. So it's a it's a debate on whetheror not how much selfadministration should we have, versus to we go ahead and juststart attacking them with our sales awesomeness. So that, I mean, it'san active debate internally right now. So whenever you've got half an hour, I will show you exactly how we came to the conclusion and how webuilt it, because we put a ton of thought into that too, andthis is like literally three days in having it. So we're it's brand newand we've put a lot of thought into it. It was a lot offun out well, I tell you, that first one come through was likemagic. Look at you, your smile. I love that. Yeah, veryfascinative on it. Some points called by marketing at Deconius. Well,yeah, and my previous company, to Missto it was our number one leadsource and I think it kind of had more of the self administration, youknow, less sales awesomeness involved. And but then again, you know,in the COVID era everything's like so dear. When we get a lead, wejust want to leg tackle and and you know, Polish it. Yeah, you know, it just yeah, so I'll definitely take up on that, Nathan, for sure. But sorry, and have of interest. you runme invisible Webino. I'm not sure when that was, but I'm busycontact one. were making visibles that. Have you seen any of those cometo fruition yet? Right, so I'll tell you. It's too early tosay, because the first one, who was an abject failure because the tape, so I swear to you, and I shot a video and didn't likethen, but I practiced this fifteen times, no question right, and the daythat it went live the stream just didn't work. It didn't work atall. So I had, you know, a hundred and fifty or so peopleon the site and I could see...

...them all saying, I think there'sa technical problem, and so it didn't work at all. But what Idid is so I ended up just putting because I had practiced fifteen times,I had actually recorded a run through, so I put the run through theon and then I sent, you know, to everyone in the database, Isent a note saying, you know, this was a failure whatever and we'regoing to do it again. And that was like a month ago.I finally got over it and crawled out from under the settles do this thingright and figured out the technology. But a crazy thing happened, which isimmediately I started getting emails from people that would never ever answer my email before, and they're all pretty much the same. One part making fun of me,which is totally valid. That's what you get for calling it an invisiblewebinar. It was. It was perfectly invisible, like, okay, youguys got me, I'm going to change the name next time. But thenit was. But you know what, like this happens to everybody. Anyoneis that's been in technology for more than a minute has had something like thishappened. And I'll check out the video and tell me when you're doing thenext one. And it was staggery. How many people did that? Andnot only that, and I swear to you I didn't design it to way. Not only that, we had more demo request that day than any otherday in history of the cup. And yes, some of them already turnedinto opportunities that were just a month ago. So yeah, I mean, obviouslyyou don't plan to fail. It's a lot of it is in howyou respond to it. But I think that's the other thing about right nowis that I think people understand that there are going to be mistakes and thatwe're all kind of human right now and nobody's going to be perfect. Imean, every zoom call you're on, you usually you'll see a dog runthrough here or a six year old or whatever. Right, people are aremuch more willing to understand when things like this happen. But but yeah,so I think that was a good example and we're going to try it again. I couldn't believe that there are that many people on it and I couldn'tbelieve there are only people on it that couldn't see anything. So it wasa blessing, Anna Curse. But yeah, we're going to try it again ina couple of weeks. But yeah, I think it does work because exactlythat right. I want to see this thing, but I don't wantto have to be part of a sales cycle yet. So she's just showme the thing and then if the thing is enough value, then great,I'll bring a couple of people in and you should ended touy Um and bymaking a slate mistakes it there in getting getting it, I'm in the firstplace, which is fantastic, and just just things we can I agree withyou. Have thing to people appreciate the fight that you tray something you Ithink that's sort of so the defriends, you know, when theyverybody's again stringto send stone at them. Everybody's trying was the same thing, to sendBaiti's Day. I need ails in Linkedin, whatever you want. People just comeand try to sell you some fake but you see something, I'm actuallyit's good. One thing I said, I was going to say. They'lljust on that point. The one thing I've said a bunch of times isthe next time big hack happens, like a Sony or target, I wantto just go over to the window and put your head out and put yourear out the window and your here, you'll hear the sounds of a millionpower point next updating, because every single marketer is going to say we wouldhave stopped the Sony target or whatever breach with our technology, like everyone.Thanks generation. Think that it's not just next judge's and next ens a nextGen. as a thank clause, we've got PAT pats. Thanks for drainingus for know that you had a very important call, so we really appreciatethat. You. You can come in and join us. We've us allour guests to very brief interchus them side. So you man, just giving usa quicker, quick in trust to you, are we you walk quizand yeah, just a quick we expect contact. Sure, sure, thanksair really and great to a see you again. Hello, Katerina, niceto see you too and nice to see everybody. Yeah, my name isPatrick County on the Vice President Business Development for Cyber Security Company, for Tanic, but I've I've known opera had for a long time because I hired thema couple of times in my previous company, High Trust, when I was runninginternational business for for that company and Global Business Development. So let's see, I've been about me. This is my seventh start up, so obviouslyI haven't learned my lesson yet and it probably never will. And I thinkas everybody on this called probably feels your DNA changes at some point in timeand you know exactly sure when that happens, but you certainly know what after happens. And you know looking forward to hopefully having another successful run here atPortannex and in back Portanics, unbeknownst to me, already started working with youguys in Europe and now we're going to expand into the US and doing someinitiatives. So I'm very glad to see that and and I think it's thinkit's well learned on your all part. It's it's done making a taking advantageof our relationship, but without letting US know. Going behind my back tospeak to Faltonis my go should have been mine, but well, you know, one of us those each other. Some drinks are really and so whatwill me to you? The last thing...

...we did that she ended up ina quite, to yea digitous situation. But that so just coming back toyou, but very quickly. I mean, is there anything that you've seen?So I know that you guys have been doing lots of fine tuning,also at obsidy. And because you're like startups getting going. You've got coviedopening in the in the midst of everything happening, and it's got too he'sgot to be even more difficult for you guys to can of find your feet, adapt to the situation and do everything at the same time. But butwhat have you seen? I've you seen anything or any any spots? Donot behave your from yourself. Team that you think is is. You know, you you could, you could do most mentioned of best practice. Sosome feat that that would recommend people are doing. Yeah, I mean Ithink it's an evolving story. We're all trying to figure out what the NewEconomy and situation, you know, means for the sale cycle that we're usedto, because I think it's changing, obviously, and so you know,we're in a unique position, and maybe there's some other folks too, butwe're trying to create a new space. You know, we call a clouddetection and response on CDR and you know we're very happy to see competitors ofother people start using that same acronym. Kind of means it's catching on.Yeah, essentially, what we're trying to do is narrow the aperture and getvery specific, because I think that what I found is that there may notbe as many opportunities popping up, but the ones that are engaged are veryreal. So the quantities gone down with the qualities increased. Yeah, andone of the things we've done is, like, you know, we've goneright after the zoom usage trend here and try to protect zoom for the enterprisesthat seems to be able to provide our internal champions with the ability to surfaceit internally and, you know, bring it to their boss and that sortof thing. But so we're we're making some big bets zooms, one ofthem the vertical, as he knows, Fintech. You know, I thinkit's really really critical right now to again have as much focus and near theaperture as much as possible because, yea, you know, there's just you know, the one thing is is like everybody's trying to do a happy RVis zoom or something like that. You know, people are theoretically more availablebecause they're locked online and on their desk, but I also think, you know, to Nathan's point, you know, if you stick your head out thewindow, you can hear people sending out zoom happy hours and, youknow, alcohol kits and things like that. I think that's already worn out.Yeah, so the challenges is now an you do and you know,a finger painting kit? I don't know what he send out. So Imean that actually, that's a pretty good it is but anyway, just kidding. But you should keep an eye on this. I think it's an everevolving to new economy. It's a new reality and I think, yeah,going to be a new sales. So just keep an our eye on itand trying to monitor and dial it every day. Yeah, and I thinkyou know, try to zoom. Try to zoom pictionary with without the halt. That works our card cards against humanity. Maybe that's fantastic. That would youthat. That would doubt the be. So we had all fast day backin do you offishally trendy a week or so ago, and we blakeout against humanity at lunch time and and you know I did. I didindeed, with that game, with some singing and laughing like there's that,I managed to get some tracious combination. That's some some wouldn't appreciate, butthere you go. But not, I think you know, one of theif had we've done with you, lass and what we realize through the conversationthat we ad with you, but your team is the target market are shrinking. We can go after everyone like we used to do before. You know, if you look at obviously the US economy is quite large, but I'mfriend. So if you look at the French economy, you look at thefirst forty accounts in front the Qeq forty, you've got their force, you've gotare bus, you've got so dick so, which are basically a compliedservice company, a hotel, you know. So out of the check forty,that's already ten percent that you can't address. I mean those guys arein in a terrible situation. But then I can go on pusual runos tryand, you know, value, which is suppledg of all those guys.So you end up with a current CAC forty that is basically a KCT twenty. And I think this is why, you know things needs to addapt becauseit's almost like you can't address as much people as you could be for us, and I think it's important for sales, as we said, seals should spendmore time addressing better what's left to address, and marketing should support themin doing so, you know, and the story should be there and andthen after I think it's a conversation of getting into the accounts and, despitethe fact that you have less and despite the fact that you owned the pressureto make numbers, it's to have a conversation of thing will look. Tellme what you're trying to achieve from a business perspective. I'm going to tellyou what work, but I canna tell you about the value we can bring. But we need to see if there is a much on no match.But your point also is that most of...

...for colons, I said ninety percentof the people we work with. We've also at events with like CIO oronline stuff that we've done with is Sei, UCIS, so ctus, you nameit, some people who are making decision in buying. Everybody's saying thesame thing. When a decision is made, the cell cycles are fifty percent thelens of what they were before. It doesn't take nine months anymore toget things done. You know, when we have decided to do something instree months time, is implemented and and the thing that there is a sortof velocity in the cell cycle, in the decision making process. But youknow, from my personal perspective, I do believe that cells needs to addaptin the mob. I know it sounds a little bit cliche, but thatchallenge yourselves, methodology, that challenge ourselves, method of going to the prospect andactually not trying to sell them something, but trying to help them, tryingto under some what they're trying to achieve. And so, you knowwhat, you're not for me, like you would do on the date.You know you could date with someone. She's extremely good looking or is extremelygood looking, so on the first safe of it's going to be a goodone. And then you speak to them and there is nothing inside and you'llbe like laughs, you know, that's not for me. I don't reallywant to see you again. You won't force yourself for you and I thinkyou should do the same in a cell cycle and not be scared of notfinding another beautiful person that you could emit, because you know it's if you unfullfor lad he is probably not what matters to you. And and huggingthe opportunity trying to push people to do things. Being insistent won't give youanything in the cell cycle. It will actually retake people. So so,yeah, but that's that's makes to sense on that. Yeah, I meanI think you know goes about saying there's going to be haven't had knots,winners and losers. I think it's going to be a pretty start line,given this economy. You know, clearly I forgot the acronym, but it'sbasically you know, anything in tourism hotels like course you mentioned hurting right,very much so. But you know what, I think overall not to be youknow, poor ten doom. But you know, clearly, you knowthe US of a is doing a really crappy job on this, on thecovid thing, and you know it kind of waiting for the next economic shootto drop as a result of kind of you know what's going on out there. So it's there. Everybody's kind of a wait and see. To dthese point earlier is cash preservation mode and I've got a lot of resumes myinbox, but anyway, it's it's still kind of a wait and see modefor a lot of folks. Yeah, yeah, and we foken broken narrowguess about from out the mult expect tim the channels. Time. Nathan sharingsome of this dropt togg against that. What time for him and some ofthe things they point more recently to have short time positive impact. But whatif some of the strategies you've got utilize, I guess, could be robust throughthrough both the previous Evenus, if the actually well, if you movedifferent companies, your scenario? Well, I think, just to play offa litt bit of the last commentary, I absolutely agree that the history ofthe future is not yet fully written. But I think early in your commentaryabout, you know, the CAC forty, as others shrinking actually could be afavorable thing ultimately, because how many times did we kid ourselves that wecould actually hit every customer? Need segmentation wise, vertical wise, etc.So some of that natural consolidation of the lovely partner potentials and the bar hasgone down quite dramatically and so it gives us a lot, you know,I think, more target rich environment and to some of things that Nathan wastalked about about, you know, being more specific and intent on how youreach out to those and getting some of these classical sales and marketing internal disputesof what is a good mql Tos ql and having that Dick Ring and fighting. I think there's a lot of really forget the humanistic side and the economicsided. I'm sobered all that being intensely catastrophic, but there's always a silverlying touch wood. I think this could be an amazing way for be tobe selling and marketing and GTM to actually learn a lot right and get outsome of the laziness and maybe some of the habits that we performed over thepast twenty years of enterprise p tob selling. So as it as it relates tothe partner side of things, you know, I think some of thetried and true pieces that I've seen both as a direct seller and a partnerseller, is one know the customer right. So if you're a vendor and youhave a you know, an intent or in direct sales motion, fartoo often I find that the the customer which is right is the end userand that's where all of the cross functional alignment attention goes, the website,the branding, the DG campaigns, the order administration focus, etc. Andthen that partner side of the business is often neglected and depending upon what percentageof that business is already, or you're intended to have come generated from yourpartners, which ultimate is what you're trying to get them to do. Lookingat your partner community as the customer and...

...having a separate, dedicated motion thatstill blends in well with all the things you're trying to do of ease ofdoing business, of the narrative in the story, of the the company's value, proper business objectives and technical differentiation, but really treating that for how apartner consumes and what language they need to ultimately become a extension of your salesforce, which is which is what we're trying to go do, so thatthat's something that has been tried and true and and in times like these isis even more critical. We're finding is is some of commentary has been isshoot a lot of ours. You know, our partner sellers right a big resellersat the regional boutique bars, at the Global Siye, they're in thesame spot that many of the customers are, which is I can't go see mycustomer, I'm sit in front of my laptop. My tradition, littlethings of selling that maybe have been, you know, on Prem Centric,and maybe that nice to have, not a must have or being delayed.What are the things I can go sell now? And I think it createsan opportunity for maybe bom things like you guys are doing, creating a newnew market, which is hey, this isn't something that's oversaturated. That nextserver, that next laptop or that next piece of software. And how doyou then? Can you have the right enablement, the right messaging, theright empowerment for that partner to allow them to take your message going forward sothat, knowing your partners are customers, there is a critical element in timesof froppiness and times of blast half half empty as well. Yeah, Icomment on that, of course. Yeah, I think you're touching on some greatpoints there, Tim and, and I think that speaks to the changingnature of relationships where a customer as a partner and a partner is an advocateand not just looking at sort of these traditional, somewhat limited views of whata relationship and business interaction needs to look like. And a lot of thatis being driven by cloud and by, you know, technology and artificial intelligenceand automation and a lot of these tools that are giving us new insights andalso the ability I think, for organizations to conceive of new ways of doingbusiness, and that's driven also by necessity. So just a couple things that I'mseeing from the VC side is these's are getting a lot more creative also, and a lot more supportive with their early stage companies. They're making alot more connections. But we're doing things like customer advocate round tables where youhave a customer that is in a room with multiple vendors and or one vendorin with multiple customers and it's a round table to talk about a specific discussiontopic. I'm also seeing stacking of solutions and doing demo days where you havemultiple values that are blended into one architectural solution, one stack. So we'reworking right now, for example, on the remote stack and what goes intothat. You know what products and solutions can be really optimistic and optimizing foryour remote workforce management? A lot of solutions right now are focusing on,you know, deriving insights with artificial intelligence and how do you get your salesteams to become better at what they do by aggregating all of the conversations atevery seller's had with every customer and getting insights from those from solutions, youknow, like Gong and Clary and we have another one called set sale.That's a spiff and enhancing solution. So elevating the conversation by using tools andgetting more to the heart of what that customer needs at that time. Ithink that's really you know, synthesizing what's going on in the market and thennot limiting the conversation with a single entity and maybe real looking at your supplychain and your workforce and your customer base and all your constituencies and trying tofind opportunities that exceed what would be the sort of traditional relationship. Ye,now, that was a lot, but there's really would make sense not duringa conversation. Yeah, thank you'll makes sense and you know, it's very, very valuable insight from your sight. Pat. You know, you aportrait to as someone who's got to a tremendous atrophic experience and both side ofthe Atlantic. I know that you've been direct sells lots of channel relationship aswell. What are the do and dawn? So what would be, you know, if you had one thing to say in some of best practice thatyou see it in one specific regional differences with basically, I just want toopen up to you to get a bit of your insight on the conversations.If I know that you can have jump on on the conversation as we go. I want to give you a bread from to kind of show you experience. Yeah, yeah, thanks, thanks all really and person of all,I just wanted to say a lot the DD. I know Peter Wagner verywell. He was on my board at top spin. So please say hellowhen you when you talk to him. Amazing. So, yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely so. So one thing I want to do, Iwant to comment on, is I think all the rules of the last,you know, decade or so of how...

...you build businesses and different geographies andwhatnot are being tested right now and I don't think they're going to be thesame one we come out of this. I'm very interesting to see how employedyears act our employers and and other companies and whatnot, because they've squeezed moreproductivity out of us and they ever got before. Right. I mean I'msure all of you guys all have the same kind of calendar that I do. I mean it's, you know, the day to be. I'm Ilive on the west coast but you know, my day typically starts at seven.I've got my first first call at seven and it's basically through the dayuntil about well of hours later. And when it's time to shut it downand go, you know, go, go, have a meal and somefamily time and then and then you've got to catch up with the stuff thatyou couldn't get you during the day because you're our meetings all day. SoI mean we're, you know, our employers are getting more out of us. When it when this thing finally does, you know, when, when thewhole covid scenario does flatten out, which it will eventually, at somestage, somehow, it'll flatten out, whether it's whether it's from a youknow, a vaccine or you know, just, you know, finally countriesgetting it right as far as when, when and how and how deeply thelockdown, but it will flatten out. And at that point in time will, you know, will the things that we've learned from how to do businessin a different way? Will they still be there? Will we capitalize onthem, or will we go back to the old ways? Right, someof our some of our less productive habit right, you know, a lotof car travel between meetings and things like that that there was. There wasa dead time, right, but that resulted in more facetoface stuff. Ithink we've proven that we can do business this way and it isn't it isn'toptimal, but if possible and you can make the most out of it.And I think that those are the things that are being they are being provenout. The question is whether or not, though, remain after we you know, after after things flattened out of it. So I think my firstcomment really is, I don't you know, I don't really know that the thingsthat were proven out over the last ten years or the last four years. We've known each other when I was working in international markets from my previouscompany and spending a lot of time in London and a lot of time inAustralia and a few other places. I don't know that. I don't knowthat, you know, the techniques that we use them would will necessarily beas effective when we come out of it. So I think we had, youknow, one thing, one thing I do believe is that in anykind of tech business, flexibility is the most important thing, right, andyou know, I'm you know, I'm kind of you know, I kindof believe that, you know, Shit always goes sideway. It is goingto happen. I mean you're you know your businy. You know that nomatter how well you plan, your business is going to go sideway because theeconomy is going to change, or the technology landscapes are going to change withthe competitive environment is going to change, or or you're going to have somesome you know, catechorlism with your own technology or one of your big competitorsand will shake up the entire market. And here we have the exact evidenceof that right only all rolled into one. So you know, I think thatthe most important thing that companies can do, regardless of whether it's,you know, ones that have a US focus, ones that have a focusand other theaters for that are global, is you have to constantly challenge yourassumptions about what are the critical things that you did to build your company,like what was that one? What was that fundamental problem that you set outto solve? Is it so fundamental? You have to challenge those assumptions andif that's still holds, then you have to go to the next stage,which is who am I solving this for? Has that change now? And theyhave to go to the next one, which is the person within that company. That would be a hero if I solve this problem six months ago, if you still the guide, right, and how do I package my productso that it can be consumed in this new world? Right, you'vegot to take it all the way down, and that the end of at theend of that chain, is how do I build the company to supportthat chain, because you can't put the company in the middle or at thefront, because then when the market changes, the company thrashes. Right, it'sjust like you kind of pull that chain tight that you know, that'show that's how start up companies have to pivot many, many times, isbecause they take the company and they think it too close to the fundamental problemat the company needs to be built at the end of that chain. Itneeds be able to support all of those pieces. But you have to goback to the assumption, right, did you did? Did the assumption ofthe assumptions hold? They hold even in this current time. Friend, andfor my current company, Portanex, which is a soccer security company focused onencrypting in a different way than we've encrypted before. Will focus on encrypting datain use. The really only two ways to encrypt data winners that use,and one of them is sort of experimental...

...and the other one is the waywe do it, which is based on an underlying Intel technology. But yeah, the fact that the matter is you could always think crypt stuff at restin emotion, but now you have to protect stuff the use, in use, because that's where the bad guys have been coming and getting your data.So that that fundamental assumption that that was going to be a critical need andthe industry is still there, right. I mean we but we had togo back and we had to challenge that. Then we had to challenge how dowe consume it? Yeah, so I think that you know, regardlessof the theater, those are those are things that you've got to you've gotto do, and that makes sense. But fortunate at least time flies bywhen you are having fun and we getting to the end of yeah, wellelse. So we, I'm sure that all of your gays have thozon meetingsome invisible with you now to run some clients, to set us stuff toexcept try excess for us. So I just want you to think you allfor your time to day. Really appreciate the fends you took the thing tocome in and show some of your sorts with us, really enjoy the congustionof could have gotten on a was a week of that conversation. I justlove it. And then we picked your gays because we know that you oldquastinate about your subject. So so, yeah, we could have gone onso much, much longer. We will show all your contact details with whenwe published a podcast, so it may be defended. People wants to getin touch with you to discuss folso and show yoursels how engage are on yoursolutions or whatever, and we would also produce a block bus. But onceagain, I want you to thank you all for your time today. WasAn absolutely absolute pleasure to have you on the show. Thank you, heynousing. Thank you. Thank you guys. Thank you, thank you, guys. Thanks so much for buddy. Stay, stay safe, guys. Bye Bye, bye. Right operatics has redefined the meaning of revenue generation for technologycompanies worldwide. While the traditional concepts of building and managing inside sales teams inhousehas existed for many years, companies are struggling with a lack of focus,agility and scale required in today's fast and complex world of enterprise. Technology sales. See How operatics can help your company accelerate pipeline at operatics dotnet. You'vebeen listening to be tob revenue acceleration. To ensure that you never miss anepisode, subscribe to the show in your favorite podcast player. Thank you somuch for listening. Until next time,.

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