B2B Revenue Acceleration
B2B Revenue Acceleration

Episode · 1 year ago

83. How to Humanize Your ABM Campaigns w/ Alex Olley

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

About 75% of B2B buyers are Millennials now.

Millennials hate buying from companies. They want to buy from people — as frictionlessly as possible.

It’s time to humanize ABM.

In this episode, we interview Alex Olley, Co-Founder and Head of Revenue & Marketing at Reachdesk, about 3 steps to humanizing ABM.

We talked about, the wrong way to go about ABM, 3 steps to humanizing ABM (hint: focus on the SDRs), and ABM isn’t just a marketing thing, it’s for everyone

To hear this interview and many more like it, subscribe to The B2B Revenue Acceleration Podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or our website.

You're listening to be to B RevenueAcceleration, a podcast dedicated helping software executives stay on thecutting edge of sales and marketing in their industry. Let's get into the show, I welcome to be to be a revenueacceleration. My name is ore amwith. He and I'm ere today with Alex HolyCofondo, a tridge desk. How are you today? ELEX, Hey yeah, I'm really wellthanks. sunshining working from home plenty is going on nots to get me busy,but so I lex wit you and I met as we were,recording not recording, actually doing a livewibe now a couple of weeks ago, and I think we went on like a house on firebecause some of your ideas and some of the points that you made regardingacambase marketing your opinion, your vision are very muchAlanin with ours, and today we will be talking about humanizing your IBMcampaigns, but but we've got a bit of a tradition, an the beginning of thepodcast. Before we get onto the topic, we always ask our guest to introducethemselves and tell us a little bit more about their CCOMPANY and I nyorcase Ridge des so would you mind just taking femiale to introduce yourselfwiz LX and who is rich disk, a really good, prety good question, so I'm onone of the cofounders of reach desk. We started it a couple years back. ManStart with the business. First, we help sales, an markting teams deliver. Whycall the moments the matter in the customer journey? So you can create,like a human connection using integrated, diat, Amaon and gifting. Soit's about leveraging the physical channel bringing that back in you knowit was a channel that perhaps died twenty years ago. Everyone used to dodoet mail and now it's kind of having a comeback. So we cul it Dara mail topoint two point: no sorry to my zero but yeah. That's what reach us allabout. I started because I used to do a lot of a cap bass. Marketing I kind ofstarted years ago was an Strlan and a then moved into the marking functionand saw what happened when you integrate sales within the actual abmmix, and we saw that were getting really good results as well from usingthe physical channel to elevate your other digital channels to really yecompliment the whole ABM program. That's where reached theat, prettySTARF. Okay, that sounds really good, and would you serve at the momoment?What sort of clients are you have to mainly software, because that was ourbackground, but we're moving more into that the recruitment space as well, butyou know we wert with incis like sap, for example, and who sweet and thosekind of customers, but yeah we're going down serving consultancy, recruitment,the more service industry as well. So when you AA when iis good you in theservice, Ofo Softar, so selling Ain of e Intenti ball type of ofstaff right, yeah, exactly okay. So, let's get tothe topic now. My start question is and giving a bit of background, so abmcampaigns by nature should always be extremely targeted and personalized.That's kind of the concept, but we...

...still see a lot of companies, tattingthatare compaing up for Falure. From our perspective, and by that I meanthat theyare sthrring, more Monis, Momon into ads automation and basicallyopeing fit to bring resurts. Why do you think it is so important to GIMANIZEABM? And how can you actually do it yeah, so frantestic question? I Ialmost let to go back to a couple years. Butk when I started doing abm, we weredoing the same thing. We would just spend lot of money on ads and likeemails, and it was a marketing lead function right. We didn't get it right,because we weren't talk about the right, metrix neverything. We weret we werenactually driving towards revenue. It was all about mqlls and Booki meetingsand we basically do a lot of bit wrong. I think why make it more human andhumanizing the ABM approache is based on one really fundamental principle:that is people by from people. They don't actually want to buy from yourcompany. They want the relationship with the person. I think it's importantto is because this is what buyers expect right now. The way I alwaysthink about, it is very simply thoughit'St. I think'sabout seventy seventy five percent, roughly that be to be a bias now, aMillenniul, the millennial sort of Bya bic in a very different way, and whatthey've got used to when I rememberlenni myself. So so I cansospeech myself and there's been a lot of research from Gart, ther and otherother similar businesses. Thathave done a lot of research into this Ye. We wantthis kind of friction, thats buying experience. We don't want to buy froman ad o an email. We want to talk to a humor. The Beto B space is kind ofworking towards that some same level of intimacy. The immediacy incoherence isperhaps what we expect from like the BEA to see brands. You know the retailbrand that we bike from and hink et Tho. Those kind of businesses have got a got:it nailed because they're always there they will always show up at the righttime. It's always personal, an contextural and the bee to be worledwhen you're doing account beas marketing. You can take that bee to seelogic and put into ABM program and surround it around a human. You know anSDR who's actually like part of the marketing machine and an AE WHO's. Alsopart of that, and you can focus all of it and experience that your prospectand your win of customer is having then you're going to get way better results.So for me it's about putting the right people within Yho ABM program and makeit humor from that way, because that's what people expect yeah now. I think I think that Miktoffics Kindof, obviously you kno bit bit byus because I'm running uperradics and U we do have Samon Offcgbgiou Tam. Sogetting on to that, we, as I mentioned Indentro we've beenrecently together on a panol discussion about the DOS and don't of DSD and andoften see that companies on Dhe estmade the importance of thes Tsdr in theibmcampaigns. What are your thoughts on that n and also I'll? Do your ces ratedm yeah so ihink? That was a really good startingpoint from where we first met yeah...

...online t the SDRs, and I always thinkabout having that human element. Within this I a hundred percent agree. I thinkI think the role of the Fr is is massively underestimated in terms ofits importance. I think the reason why that happens is because someorganization still target their marketing teams on things like mqls,I'm utseing, the mad is bad, but what we really want to do when we're talkingabout account based programs right we're talking about revenue, that's theend, go we don't want to. No one cares. If we don't get any revenue on thetable at the end of it, then it's all for nothing. Really. It's not BhatBuokin meetings. So the almost the distinction there is. The word Maccount based marketing the marketing o them, but I's actually what Usuauconfusive businesses and, as I said you early one, I fell into this trap fivesix years ago, but Wa about marketing andsead of getting that top of funhapproach the moment. I realized that if you can put humans, Patia, STRs Aus,sometimes customer success within your Accountas marking program. What you cando is you can focus on the revenue number a lot more and you can have thattat human subslauted with into it so that they can be the ones thatdeliver. I call ot Switzerland, but they're, not in marketing they're, not in sales they'rein the middle and they're, the ones that join the two. We all talk aboutsales and marketing alotement. We all want it, but but I think the SDR is actually thelink it's the bit where you can have markting hand off and sales linktogether and doing a really human way that that is part of your accountbaseprogram and ill. You get them to interact,because you know you hevee is at spot of Te multitouch process. Do you thinkthat process needs to be a rigid? Your your loflexibility? Is it? Is it itdon't know one on one BA is I mean I don't neew the Reson onswer to thatquestion to be fail like so I'm o asking you for opinion on that or maybesomesomesome storytelling, yeah sure so l the way I've done it is you everyhing start with assarts withdata, and everything has to start with. Having that that sort of what I calltha single customer, you were a lot of business still working in lists, andyou know we' re going to have this list and we're going to Foks opon there whenit reaches that stage and that's where it going to gets handed off. What I'vebuilt over the past couple years is what I call that Singor customer viewusing like a customer data platform sort of software, so you can knit together alot of things that a real time and what you do is you you can do it based onthings like engagement scores, so that at that point, that a certain level ofengagement reaches X. that's when the SDR comes into play. That's wheremarketing still moves along the process. They never dip out. Af Bit they'reproviding that aircover and then, when engagement increases to another level,then that could be the point of which the A is now part of e the process aswell. But I've done it based on that model. If you take real time data basedon what's happening on your website, intent data, your named account list,you ICP the engagement, that's...

...happening through and and emails andeverything you can build a scoring model that allows you to know when an individual is going to be engagingwith that account. It's not just about the the individual contact or prospectwithin the account, but the account engagement, because then that gives youthe fexibility. If you're now talking to someone is more of a manager level.But you know you need to get into tdecease weet, then you can starttraining your strs, for example, in that Situatin, to have the rightconversation so that you can then multithread within the account anddrives et ount forward. And it's at the point AF, which you reach, that nextlevel of engagement, that's when it kind of hands off into the next phace,which might be actually the proposal or all the other pitch stage but hen they.So I don't think that you should just reach a single point and then that's it.They've kind of booked a meeting and then they move on you've got to get toa certain point in which you makes sense. But you to reach that level ofengagement and I thinl that's where businesses really win yeah now I agreewith Jovin the what we've seen recently, and it was one of the topic that wewith discuss on a few way binels and bits and pieces that we've been invadedto is that currently because of the currentclimate and the pundemic seem pretty much being out there and everybody'sstill being kind of flag done at the moment we see our con sitting as a dotigetmarket is shrinking. They can go after the same volume ofaccounts as they used to do before, and I think that's kind of pushing themtowards the ABM approach, okay and and what could realize oor the course ofApril and maze that that first element that you mentioned the data? They don'thave it, they really don't have it. You know: We've had MADEX seven contractthat we sign with prospective organization that well want to do morewith us, but basically the first step. The first part of the agreement of fastengagement with them is building up a Dataset is going to the target acrons.I don't fink the BAING centers, I don't tink the right people in just Baingsenters and starting from ten a look. You need to organize them by Tesona, sothe account levery need to organize by geography, potentially verticle andwhatever you know the crater, maybe a releven to Youas an organization. Butthen you talk to a a second level of segmentation at the contact level, andthen you can do your campagn and then you can do your one on one to few oreven w went to one type of type of Cam Pangs, but now what's got realizing. Weare rea, realizing that, as were brilding up intiligence and you knowputting information together off or those customers. Our clients aretreated in taking the repots that Wedol for them. Like the ISO, it's a Po pointon Blay, that will say the name of the clients and all the information thatwe've collected on the account and they send it to the anuser iseing to teacone. They want to prospect- and youknow, based on the information a we collectit on your account ples CDattached. I believe that you other person that we should talk to, and Ibelieve that you issue should be Tis that that and that and that's how theyget the engagement, but we also get involved in now getting this fastengagement funilieraos as we go along...

...the process, and sometimes you know weput, we put contectn to no spring. We also get involved into that moderinvestigation, type of type of sdrbda role, where, as you said,we will take the data from intent. Marketing will take the data from thescoring tools and see you know if just people have been active, etc, etc andthen try to go from clues that are getting on the account andprioritization on who accounts. We want to go after first trying to find clueto build up a case to then go and stick to them and that's kind of the opener and it's interesting Ou. It works by doagree with you, and my next question is Aron that Rall andlet. You say that they arenot sells. The DSDLBG is kind of is kind of not really a serous ror, notfor you, a marketing world. So, let's, let's go it for the sake of today, anAbdl role and I cant Base Development Representative Roll. In a way and my question to you: Lexis Ou, youincensivize those people yeah, so you have the you still keep thetraditional model in a sente so for an AB account based SDR yeah you'd stillsay you know, you need to book meetings with the right people,but you have a scoring system. This is what I started using. You almost have a priority list and Ijust break it down itto to so you have you t one in your tear to anyone inthat t one there might be twenty five acanp. Now you give a you, give it avalue to the level of Senoroity and the best fitpersona. So let's say you'resaying to marketing you have CMO. Is your ultimate decision makeer and thenthe CFFO might be the one particulary now he's Goingo to be actually signingoff in the budget for it. If you have a meeting with the CMO, there were twentypoints and let's say perhaps you provideintegrations as well, but they're not as key to the decision. So having thatthe CIO might get you ten points. Do you entual do on Ta Point System sothat whereby you actually incentivize and remunerate your account basedbusiness, degolernment, reps SRS, whatever wee calling them based on thatpoint system, because you know that in those tawon accounts, the higher youget up and the more buying you get up from the senior decision makers, youcan appoint more points to them and actually remunerate them on that basic.It really demonstrates the right behavior to make sure you're talking tothe right people. That's the first part for me is having a scoring system. Thenyou do a slightly lower system for your tear two accounts. For example yeah. Weknow one average there's between six to eight byers involved in the byingdecision in a BTB transaction, O, more withan account base, marking it's morelike twelve to fourteen. The second part to it for me, is around actually remunerating the the SDR onthe closed one revenue permit, because again they are more interested in not just the first part of book. Yourmeeting and qualifying and making sure...

...there's a next step in place to move itforward. They're actually also jusplaying the right behavior, and thisis usually where their attention to detail is enhands, because they'reemunerated on when that deal closes that they're going to be conpersated onthat too, and that's one of the biggest shifs I've seen happening in businessnow less just about makings book, but also about wh n. When you do your jobproperty and it closes you'll, be conversated for the actual money thatwill come through the business when the contract sine yeah focus on Quaei Te.That makes perfect sense and I just want to shift a ITA bit gear.Do you think that ABM is still pretty much a marketing driven approach? It'sin between both you know, and we know what a real ABM campagn should be:Marketing seported, bysells working together. That's the that's e, thedream world! Okay, but coming back to my question, do you think at that ABMis still pretty much a marketing driven approach? Or do you see more sells lideand Senor leadership, members bying into the Valu of ABM or I can baseeverything as we've been cutting it yeah there, as there are a couplestages of o the maturity of you, Abian programs?For me, I think the larger organizations are struggling to toactually make that shift, because there's so much internal constraints,try actally make account base markes and programs work you need to get byand throughout the whole organization, can't just be e marketing theme. SAYIG,hey we're Goingnto, do ABM and then hope it works that won't work. The CEOneeds to be bought in the CMO everyone down to like yesr everyone nees to Bbougt into it right. So I'm actually saying the businessesthat make it less about a marketinginitiative, a usually sort of he, the hypergrowte tech companies who havebeen more agile. The buying is a bit easier to get hold of, because you cando a pilot project and see quick, bins quite quite easily and then invest moreinto it. So I actually think it's those those businesses that sort ofhypergrowth bin Wat, Agar, usually sort of VC back companies that being pressedto get quality results, not just those the quantity numbers and actually thebigger organizations struggling a bit more thi. It's really important tostress I can't Mas markling is not a new content, but it's been around fortwenty five thirty years it used to be only for the larger companies that hadbig teams of marked that had sort of thirty or forty markters that they canalocate to the account. Now we've got so much more technology that allows usto be more agile to have scoring systems intent. Data CDPs, waiting, ITT,alltogether, intoor crm, but it's becoming more available to thosebusinesses and the more angole companies are investing that technologynow are the ones that are moving away from ABM being, a marketing leadinitiative and more a hilistic crossfunctional team, absurdely. Absolutely not Compett Yo agree withyou. Longlive D Cambes everything because I thinkin in today's climateand particularly if you, if you've, got...

...ivalue product and you want to go andget your big ticket cells, it's more important than ever less question foryou o know we're running a little bit of out of time. I get excited sometimeslike do we. We often see people looking at. We seeclients coming to us, and so I want to do an. I can bas ever thing campen, Icopatly get it. We do the wite Bob Tur, Blah Blah Blah we get going andliterally they are only interested in the meetings. Okay, so they only wantmeetings and they want what I would call anopen the door meeting. So, asyou say, O propose me at the selevel in Tha taccounts and then see you later,don't a e, I ompanymor. So if you go AFTO, I count a get me at the top ofthat. ticount that sit oporatics job is dad. You can move on to the next one. We are trined to tell them that this isnot right and I think we are trying to tenl then that his is theresponsibility of marketing but alsoselves to suport the AE to not onlyget that first meeting in the ACON, but also support Ein in enriaching thatconsensus engaging with all des of personels. That would be from close tofive involve in the decision making process. What do you think about that di? Youthink, is the right approjct. Do you think we should change your approach,or do you think we fating our astpettal Yo you're on the right approach? Ithink You'e got Ta, you got Ta keep a hard line there. Yes, fine! We do all WAT meeting, butthere's no point in meeting that it's not going to turn into an actual closeone deal if you think that you really break it down into two and for me a canbase. Marketing is transitioning from the ABM to the Abx side of things,acount base experiences, and I think, if you, if you buy into experiencesbeing in the new currency, whereby we're not differentaton products andpricing and those things and your creating experience, which is all aboutyour prospect, your customer, the account you need to have it as africtionat approach and doesn't just stop at the point that a meeting taxesplace. You need to build these ponstructional teams. You need to havea whole team that buys into that so that an it's not even just the point onwhich that first deal gets closed. ABM actually goes beyond that Ha hesmarketing s about expension and advocacy. It's about. You know you havecustomers. How do we really get more out of them? So for me, if you awasthinking about ABM is let's target this account to get meetings, but not onlyyou forgetting about stage one which is obviously getting the contract signedand winning the customer the face to after that is actually about expension.How do we really get more rid of that account? Because what we aim for in ABMis advocacy, ultimately yeah advocacy leads to better enual rates, quicker velocity in deals, but reallyimportantly, expansion and upselves and Athin. That's what everyone shouldreally be me for. If we aim the expansion side, tef things more, willforget more about the meetings. Bookd well forget more about the initialclothes one and well think longer term, and I think that's what we shoald beAmin for. Okay, O compecaely agree with you weare, rich and lot of time now its Onowing. I had two more questions for...

...you because they keep on coming, butWi'm sure we lo osition together, Alekta t, that's fine, Lov, Tin Wer,trying to keep we train to keep up, but just retivelia shop. So so so you know,people can listen to them during a commune or something like that and notgo for the Lrong long whole type of conversation, Tati WANTEU, to Sing Toufor your inside today. Very very useful, really appreciate you take the time Iknow at Your cofonder o Fridge desk operating as a bidar the moment I wouldenencourage anyone to find your Lintinan to follow your journey,because it's pretty cool and and Fu. You know it's good to see youself for alittle bit, but also ondrying it. It's kind of kind, O an interesting one towitness. But if anyone wants to connect with you to learn more about rich deskor you know, just carry him. The conversation that we just said today offline was the best way get to of your lex yeah. Just find me on Linketin JusSerg Alex Olly, my son Ams Aley, quite an unconventual ones. There aren't andmany of us if you want to find more about recess going to linked in page orjust find us on ww hscom well away. We're always happy have a conversation.That's FUNDOF for well great and many things again to you. It was an absolutepleasure to Hav under shor today, yeah. Likewise, thanks lot. Having meoperatics has redefined the meaning of revenue generation for technologycompanies worldwide, while the traditional concepts of building andmanaging inside sales teams in house has existed for many years. Companiesare struggling with the lack of focus, agility and scale required in today'sfast and complex world of enterprise technology sales. Seeo operatics canhelp your company accelerate pipeline at operatics. Dot Net you've beenlistening to be to be revenue acceleration to ensure that you nevermiss an episode subscribe to the show in your favorite podcast player. Thankyou so much for listening until next time.

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