B2B Revenue Acceleration
B2B Revenue Acceleration

Episode · 1 year ago

87: How COVID-19 Has Impacted the ISV Ecosystem w/ Michelle Auchinachie, Steve Jemmott, and Michael Ford

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

There is no doubt that businesses all around the world have been impacted by COVID-19. But how has it impacted the ISV community? And how have vendors reacted to support their partners to thrive? 

To find out the answers to these questions, we invited Michelle Auchinachie, Head of ISVs - UK at Sage, as well as two of Sage’s ISVs: Steve Jemmott, Sales Manager at Sicon, and Michael Ford, Founder & CEO at Castaway Forecasting.

You’ll hear from Michelle about the vendor side of supporting their strategic partners. Steve provides an ISV perspective on how he felt supported to continue growing and operating successfully, while Michael talks to us about how other vendors have handled the situation. 

To hear this interview and many more like it, subscribe to The B2B Revenue Acceleration Podcast on Apple Podcasts, on Spotify, or on our website.

You were listening to bb revenue acceleration, a podcast dedicated helping software executive stay on the cutting edge of sales and marketing in their industry. Let's get into the show. Hi, welcome to be to be a revenue acceleration. My name is Niam, with you and I'm pleased to be will coming today's free special guests on our show to discuss how the ISS v Ecosystem has been impacted covid nineteen and what vendors have been doing to support a partner. So, from a vendor side, I'd like to welcome Michelle or in, a key with aid of issvs at sage in the UK, to welcome to the show, Michelle. Hi, nice to meet today and be on the show. Thanks for having so on pleasure. And from the LB side we are welcoming Michael Fort from the and see you and castaway forecasting and Steve Jemmott, sales manager at psychon. Welcome to the show, my collective. All right, how are you? Thank you very very good, guys. Very good. So, before we get going, always ask my guests to introduce themselves. Some of them take five videites, some of them to quite minute. Can a s feeture, just a ten, fifteen sortistagons. Just introduce yourself briefly, I guess, your role, but also, in a couple of sentences, tell us what your respective companies are doing. Should we start with you, Michelle? Yes, sure, and yes, I my name them self are can I, Kei and I had a I see, for say, to in the UK, and stage is a market leader for technology that provide right smaller medium businesses with visibility, flexibility and efficiency to manage, finance, operations and people. I see consistem really plays a key part in this as well. And we've got it. We've got a really wide ecosystem of isasds that we curate, integrate with their products, validate the integration and and then and then publish it to our own market place and and really have the benefit our customers that are looking to extend their their experience with sage makes perfect and thank you, Michelle. Michael. Should we ask to the next on?...

Michael Ford, on the CEO of castaway forecasting. We're a small APP that helps people create budgets, podcasts and business models. Helps we help people see into the future so they can design a bit of future. We take the pain out of doing numbers. We are, as you can tell, Australian that we sell cast way all over the world and with a real love focus this year, particularly on the UK. Okay, thank you, my good and Steve Laughs like that say the best for last absolutely so money to speak on sales manager. Here it's cycle we are leading restell. If be the stage in tract we only developed a stage would be poor UK products, which is sage two hundred perfect. Thank you very much to you. What sends gain for your introduction. The reason why we wanted to record these cipis up today is because that, you know, we longer done that. Covid nineteen as impacted a lot of businesses, but we've never really looked at the relationship between is a V and Vendo, and I don't think we've been speaking enough about what measures vendo are taking to support their strategic botnurs. So, starting with Yu Michell, it would be great to under stormed a little bit more how your I ve ecosystem looks like a sage. Before we get going. How many strategic Bob know do you manage? How do you support your your partners from a sales and marketing perspective? And and also what are your general reviews on how the market has been affected by by covid nineteen? Yeah, sure, and so in the UK our sage ice ecosystem fans across our entire product portfolio and so you've got sage business slide accounting, which is our entry level cloud solution for four startup companies, all the way through to x three, which is designed for for customers but like manufacturing, distribution and you really complex operational lead and all along the portfolio we have ice these integrated to our various products. And I say its ecosystems really so first as well. So...

...we work with and Tech Startup companies that are cloud native and we work with some companies that regularly appear on the Gardner Magic quadrants. And then we've got long term partners of sage that would have integrated to our own prime products originally, and I've kind of come on a cloud transformation journey with us as well. So it is really interesting and the ice these to provide and a vast number of solutions. We've got everything from business intelligence, forecasting, manufacturing, ecommerce, everything that you can really think off and I think it makes my job really interesting dealing with so many different types of companies. Numbers Wise, we've got about three hundred developers and is fees in the UK and off those there's about twenty that we've got strategic and commercial relationships in place with them, so psychonic, hastaway and or two of those, and with the ice these that we've got strategic commercial relationships with. Their sales teams. Work really closely with them, both their direct teams and also are indirect teams and reseller channels. And I is is be solution that we sell. It goes to our sales people's are sales teams quota and I guess it really encourages them try to have the right behavior, get to know that ice these a lot better in the solution and understand what type of value it can really add to the customer as well. In the last six months we've really tried to kick off ice feed marketing in the UK and with their ecosystem. We've been running a lot of ice bee enablement sessions to our sales teams and channel and we ran a virtual customer event recently as well. We're all our ice bees were there to demo and meet with the customers and kind of share the experience of the ecosystem and we're building out during customer case studies together. And I guess another key thing we started to do during covid is to really and bring our isps into our stage foundation program where we help out charities in our local community. So we've been coming together online to do some charitable activity as well. And then told them a little bit about how the market's been affected during COVID. I...

...guess it's said it's been really interesting. Once lockdown CINDIC kicked in, we took a really strong stance that we were here to support our customers. We stopped all proactive sales and marketing activity completely. A lot of our reseller channel partners and our ISS these took the same stance. We just wanted to figure out how can we help and support each other, our partners and our colleagues as well. We created a covid hub, so basically it was a place for all customers and partners to go to to find out everything that was happening. Every day. When there was an EC government update coming out, our customers cut log on and learn about it, and we had webinars running daily so customers can understand how government changes and the lockdown was kind of impacting their business. Yet we have massive turn outs. I think we two thousand people on one of our webinars. That came once the furlough scheme was announced. So I'm yeah, really, really good, good turning. Yeah, so I guess we took a lot about what we were doing with customers and internally, what the colleagues at stage, and try to use that with our ice ecosystem as well. So again, like like us, all our eyes, these were kind of working from home a lot of people, some people were working by themselves. Didn't really have that kind of system. We had. It said, we were all connected together, so we built up virtual coffee mornings and happy hours and just to get everyone together kind of talk about person only, how we were finding things and how we were fining things from business perspective, how we were adapting and I guess talking a little bit about how, yeah, how our businesses were being impacted as well, and I think that worked really well. I guess we had isps, even Steven Michael Letter on this call that they probably would never have met each other in personal even on an event. They maybe would have like been introduced, but they would never have built the relationship that we have. So so I think that's really good and I guess they can talk about it a little bit more. But one thing we that came out of the coffee mornings and and from speaking to other colleagues and partners that stage just how quickly businesses have had to accelerate their digital transformation journey and during Covid, and I'm Michael can probably cover this as...

...well, but I need for isps and the business intelligence and forecasting space. I guess they've seen that businesses and our customers have found that they've needed to be able to reef work ast daily or or weekly really is, as new changes came out. And then we've got other customers that may have always sold business to business, that never explored business to consumer and that kind of switched on during covid. So again they had to switch everything around. They needed ECOMMERCE, they needed warehousing, they needed distribution tools, the gistical tool. So yeah, everything really, I guess, accelerate it from a digital perspective. But I'm I'm sure Steven and Michael can talk a little bit more about it as well on their own perspectives. Sure, yeah, that sounds great. I mean seems that you're ready tried to put the company together and to keep everyone still involved. I think you know what you mentioned. If I've got to summarize, and what we've seen from successful businesses now and what we see you, successful business owner and and sales leader and marketing leader, telling us is adaptation. No, we haven't. You know, it was not business as usual. So yes, our clients may ever to refecast, but we also had to review what we are doing product Chrodma investment, and I think everybody has kind of done that pretty much as you sound the daily basis or weekly or monthly basis, which I think is actually quite good, you know, because it allows you to probably get closer to each other in a way, you know, and despite the firet are not in person, and all the things that you've done with the the morning get together, I know that has probably brought the community together and people are probably eager for your next physical event to actually go and chaken and never built together, which I think is fantastic and it's Steven, I think, my crea. Finally at that one. There you go, to see if coming back to you now, pycnd offers innovative additions and solution for sage customers. So technically, the larger the sage customer base is, the better idea for you. As an exclusive...

...stage, I is V partner. How did cove it affect your business and what kind of support did you get at second to continue growing and operating successfully? Yeah, I think I think it's a great question. Coming into it, I think probably is everyone did. We just assumed companies were batten the hatches and so everything could slow down. So for us is as an organization, we just come off the back of a record sales year for for us. So planning coming into before you know it, realized it was going to affect us. We were planning great sort of extra growth, what we're going to do with a product. Of course, when it hit with that mindset of I think companies, well will just stop spending, we actually change the budget. So we've just got a flat line for a certain number of months. With things picking up now. We had a decision to make or not. We've the directors of the business had a decision to make should be utilized government's furlough scheme. Actually, the directors decided to use that as an investment opportunity in our people. Are Not putting us on furlough, but using that time to look at our internal processes. Now as a business that differently, I'm going to love getting out and about. So first lockdown piers up behind to death every day with was not my idea of idea of fun. abously got used to it now and I think it's probably gone the other way. We weren't once we did their demonstrate because a lot of hours was on site. So all of a sudden we had to use lives technology and I think that's one of the first bits where they age very much supportive and set the bar using teams calling us in. So we looked at utilize in that technology here now that investment. We looked at internal processes, we looked at testing of the products to make them better, but more importantly, looking at what collateral could we give. Sup bought our part us and our partners are the same as sages partner. So we sell to that' stay ecosystem to ensure that when they came back and we started to see it up to that they were they were able to hit the ground hit the ground running and we giving them as much collateral as possible to support those activities and for their customers. What...

...actually has transpired is we are tracking last year. So that whole emphasis and I think what's happened is through the mediums that we've got through businesses and again taking a leak from stage, whereby working and Co supporting the customers, I think directors and owners have had to look at there in their businesses a lot closer, just as you've stay in their ray to look at their internal processes and they've actually looked distance. So we were instantly busy from from sales side of things to support bought them demonstrations and how our solutions can then help them become more efficient. So I think that's so for us in terms of what's how how covid affected slightly different. I think from a people perspective it's been a huge impact because it's changed to change our lives. And from a business side it's helped to refocus those processes and had a mental many years ago who they called it the business triangle and they said if you focus on your people, give them the training internally and given the the the autonomy to to provide excellent customer service and then the customers feel that the value, the number takes care of itself and I think that's really helped us reset that. Now second part, think to your two questions, are how sage supported us. Firstly, is the Moret of the weekly coffee mornings. You know we're shall and the team of putting that's been that's been fantastic because, first off, you're absolutely right. Never been to Australia. So sorry, Michael, probably would never have never met you, although Sydney Harbor curtains down to bottom, marvelous, marvelous place, but so we would never have met. Didn't realize the depth and breadth of that. I se community outside of the two hundred arena that we that we play it. So having those being able to share these stories and realize actually it's not just our customers that are thing that it's also, you know, what Michael Seeing and and it's all your you'll see when we comeing to Michael, the forecasting in the insight they were to provide what's happening with the market really how solidify that we were doing the right things and hopefully we'd help the other partners. And then working closely with the sales teams...

...absolutely endorsed. Say Stopping proactive selling was perfect thing to do. It really helped to think that that base how promote stage in the in the right way as well, in people's minds that it was a supportive community. Of course we're part of that. And then we worked to delay orders, you know, so working with sage. If they were how can we support the mutual customers? There was a lot that. Well, that happened. But yeah, it's been I think looking back now, the viewpoint going into the whole covid situation was it's very different to to how I see it now retrospectively. Yeah, thank you very much. I mean that's that's very useful of men A. You're writer the we kind of done the same atoporatics. While we say, well, we should just keep the revenue a float. There is no point in trying to do more. Trained to go out and selling. We've done that for probably amounts. But then what we realize very quickly that in our in our business, which is sells and marketing, a lot of people who are actually completely confused about what to do and the other wout. All the events that I had plan are not happening anymore. So I've got no Leeds coming from that. All the partners to that I had plan are not happening anymore because in the channel, and maybe more into the more traditional channel, I these tree resellers, very add reseller and all that. Most of it is physical. You know, people like to go and have a beer with each other. I'll be with their customer, with Das v Vendor relationship, e. could be slightly different. But you know, partners work well because they are in the granularity, geographical granularity, they are close to their clients and basically we completely this. Say to good the other way, which is, let's have a lot of conversation. We know that we are not expecting our toppling to go now, but let's have a lot of conversation and let's pick with all those prospect share Id these tread could not create because we're already had one, but develop our community and share best practices of what people are doing and what's working, what's not working and what lots of conversation as what kind of non reven you generating. Conversation. They were just like...

...kind of a this is what we see in your market, this is how we see the type of prospect that you are selling to buying it. And this is a tactics that we've been using with clients, or some clients that be using as a stand alone without us to be successful. And I was it. You know, will spend thirty minutes an hour with prospect and not get anything out of it, which is crazy if you think about it, because you know, you obviously want to send stuff to people. But guess what, you know, came July, came a gust. We could not cope with the dement and I think you know the team. You put a person mail links in. Well, we speaking about thirty five plus New York. For that, we had to get on, you know, in the lass four to six weeks, which is incredible, and I think all that time invested in actually having conversation, trying to help people, is not coming back to us. Well, people are like look, when I was a little bit doubting about what to do, or tray some musil stuff, exceeter, etc. Now want to go back and I want to walk with you, because you seem to be an extension and you can bring that you know, and I think that's this is not something that we would have done or would have sought off without covid nineteen, but definitely something that we would do more moving forward because we realize that, you know, people want to buy from salt leader and they don't just want to buy from the company has got the best preview on g two and got the best people and the best stuff, you know from the face of paint, and the best references. Right. So I see, as we've learned, our amounts on our so, Michael, guest away is is a stand alone solution that can walk independently as well as integrated with different technologies such as stage. You mentioned that sage is one of your major outler and you see a lot of gross with sage in the UK. I'm sure you're not just saying that because Michell is on the lane with us on the kidding, but we know that you're solution also integrate with those all vendors. So you'd be good to understand what you've seen from us, our vendors. I've they been? I've they been, you know, trying to reach out to you as much as sedges don't? Have they...

...been trying to support you as much as you know, Steve has been explaining in them of what's he got and the initial has been being able to taking us through. It would just be good to understand what you've seen from us, our vend or any of our best practices, but also maybe some of the bad stuff, without naming anyone, of course, but where you see maybe people maybe not doing the right things, are being a little bit clumsy in the way they manage relationship with you. Thank you right. It's been a really interesting year for us. For us, three thousand twenty was the year that we were going to break into the UK. I flew to the UK in January spend some time around the country. We were looking to employ some people who are setting up an office. We were trying to build our presence. We've been attempting to work in the UK the last four or five years, being able to trade chosen a like, but this here, two thousand and twenty was the year we were going to make the break. And then covid hit. I came back from my trip in January and there was nothing. We couldn't employ people because we wanted to fly Australians so the kind of help build a cultural connection, and that wasn't possible, and so our entire plan for two zero twenty was in a mess. Now we're a forecasting a piece of software. You'd think we could forecast, and the answer is we can forecastings. Not about predicting, because I think nobody could have predicted what came in in in two thousand and twenty. forecastings about preparing. So as soon as covid started to impact the world, we sat down and said, well, what do we do now? We still want to attack the UK market in a big way. Coming from Australia, that's complicated. There's a preference definitely for dealing with people on the ground in the UK. We've been talking with sage for quite some time. So we doing it in a great with sage business cloud accounting. We also integrate with other tools like zero, one with and so we also integrate with other tools like zero and quick books, as well as excel. So via excel we kind of integrate with everything. But we've been talking in sage for a while and when I was there in January we came to an an agreement and actually it just became for...

...us the place we wanted to place our energy. So sage has been strong as a partner and actually they opened up a pathway for us to launch hard in the UK this year without being there physically. None of the other vendors we're dealing with had that opportunity. None of them have been as proactive from our perspective as sage o. But I'm not just saying this because Michelle's on the call either. It has been a market difference that we've invested in that relationship and I think there's been an investment back from sage as well. So my plan had been to visit the UK four times this year January, February, March and then May. May We were going to a big trade show called Accountacht. That's our major annual event in the UK, and suddenly all of those are those on the ground opportunities were lot. We weren't able to run physical training, we weren't able to go face to face with the people we would normally go facetoface with, because a lot of our business model has been face to face conversations with large organizations, large accounting firms, large businesses, and so we had to actually reinvent the way we sell, the way we connect to the market, and I've got to say we couldn't have done that without the work that we've done with sage. So in that same time I was meant to be in the UK several times. We've done a trade show, but it was a virtual trade show. We've had introductions and work with major accounting firms across the UK. We've sold cast Y, introduced castway in partnership arrangements with major accounting firms and sage has been there to help us through that process. Either they've introduced through their key account managers to those those key accounts, or there's been situations where we've had connections already with those key accounts but sage is just had some additional contact which is helped push the customer over the edge and that's been for us a really good thing. It helps solve the problem. How do we launch, because two thousand and twenty was such an important year for his how do we launch hard but without actually physically...

...being there? I think in any sales or marketing campaign you need a combination of different things. We couldn't put people on the ground that we were able to access a whole bunch of customers in the UK via the sage account network. We've also obviously been on the ISS be marketplace so we've had some some some coverage by a marketplace. On top of that, I think you know, equing the things that the Deva said in Michelle said being able to connect virtually with people around the world, other eyes bees around the world, has been something really, really interesting. I remember sitting there one day and we were counting monkeys, counting monkeys as part of the Sage Foundation program now this might not sound like a strong sales activity, but actually it's an incredible opportunity through through sage foundation, to build connections and to have some fun with other eyes fee partners and that's been Nice, you know, for us around the world. Going to trade shows is always fantastic for meeting customers, but one of the key things for us is meeting other eyes bees, other people on the same journey as arts, because actually this business is difficult and there's not that many people understand how complex this business can be. And so met a trade shows has been fantastic to meet people. No trade shows this year, so no chance to meet. And yet these coffee mornings in the like of really helped that. We've created opportunities to for other eyes of these through these coffee meetings and they've created opportunities for us. One of the other things I think that this camera and and rare. You've mentioned this from your own business perspective. Your work has turned into education. We all stopped selling hard and started educating as thought leader's and I think that's been an amazing thing. We've we've recognized that we can deal globally with a note, with a with an audience from our office here in Sydney, Australia, and do it exceptionally effectively. We had to, because forecasting is never been more important. This year. I think forecasting is the tool that helps people build pathways through covid it...

...helps create the backbone for all the conversations you need to think about strategically, and so the world's never needed more what we do and our challenge has been how to get to the world and I think that's been a really interesting learning this year. We switch quickly and it's ended up being a successful year. In fact, it's been a record year for us. We've never been busier. Congratulation. It's going to make up. Yeah, thank you very much. Fun To make read. It does make our it does make a lot of sense and he's good. That he's good to other trail in a regards of me. Will also on truck at the moment. But you know, we just again. We don't want to speak Aboux record. We don't want to speak about doing too well. We which try to keep it and would like to put more on meat and all that. But we when we see some Muslim businesses around there's not doing the technology space. I think we've got lots of thick of clients and you know, we're really appear about that. We are in the right space. I think all of us know the technology space. Gays are in forecasting finance. You still need that. This is bad bonds of organization. We've got lots of crimes winding for a structure security. What gets what? The hackers are not stopping. They'll still going really out. In fact they are going out of they probably have more time in their hands walking from the bedroom while els in the in the world. So you know, I think our plants have not really seen a lack of activity or lack of interest. Is more the fluctuation term of WHO's doing what. Are you speaking to a company? Would the budget be pulled out at the last minute and you know it's the insertainty. That, I think, is the issue and I think we have been speaking with squad a few people even like private equity firms and VC is that we walk with, and I think we all agree that. You know now, we know what the insertainty look like. You know. But remember when Donald Trump was kind of saying, wow, you know, should we? You can go to work, you can go to Auboritions, and was also a good one in the UK. I leave. Well, I was listening to the thing at six pms of what did he say? Look that my words, the interest we should go...

...to walk tomorrow, were not supposed to good to what's going on and he was like well, you should, you could, but it's not a you must or your cars. You know it, and it's it was. I think that's built up a lot of uncertainty. And then we saw that the lockdown would be three weeks for weeks and then he ended up being two months and I think as what bit more than that actually. But as we got into into June, people started to say hey and we started to go in the new normal right, which is now boring down. Is that could anymore? But you know, I do really believe that now we know a deal certainty look like, and I do believe that, even if there is another lockdown, which could happen, because if it's press you nice, we would be the right thing to do and the government would be writing doing so, even if we would impact businesses, of course. I think people are much more prepared. I don't think I will be running to my local shop to get toilet, pepper and pasta right. I think I know that I want to start. I I you know, and that panic could be different. Now we know what to deal with kids at all. So I think we actually, I've land much more skills were personal level and from a business perspective, and that the adaptability, hopefully, will stay with us and we'll stay with most businesses, which is kind of leading me to my next question to you, mischell. From your perspective, what are the most positive outcomes and lesson long from that, from that to pier then also, which is which is the most important? I guess in part of my question. What are the lesson learn? Are Best Practices that you've learned over the course of the lockdown and covered Naineteen, that you will keep going, that you will keep pushing, because you actually been seeing them successful and and you see them being ongoing on an ongoing bases being successful. Yeah, it's very interesting, or you've been saying. I kind of agree with this. A lot of us am, I think, for me, community in relationships. I think the importance of that's been really highlightess and not just business. Like I live in a small village, your disco spoiler. I've got a lot of elderly people surround me. I mean I our village came together to help each other out, those that were shielding. We delivered food to them and it just feels...

...like people started to care about each other and come together a lot more during covid so I think that's something that really stood out for me and I see that. I see that internally. It's sage. We've come together a lot more. I speak, communities come together a lot more and yeah, I hate that's really keen. I guess we're a business perspective. When I look at our I see ecosystem. We have the marketplace platform and of course we want to sell and we want to market together, but I think a really big differentiator for us who's is these relationships we've created and it's trust that we've built among each other and I feel like we have each each other's backs now when we care about each other as people as well. Yeah, I guess that kind of reflects what you were saying as well. It's more people buying from people again rather than it's been very like just a digital journey where you don't speak to people. It's people wanting to to build relationships with people. So guess what, we're going to keep going and we're going to keep going with our virtual coffeme warnings and happy hours. I mean it's really simple concept and I'd flow at the idea of stopping them in the lockdown restrictions he's but all the ice these want to keep it going and we're going to go that and hopefully one day we can start doing these again in real life. I really like to share what we've created with our customers and our work wider partner base. I think our customers could get to know where ice the ecosystem really well as people and understand why we're working with these created, I. is, fees and they've all got interesting business stories to help and I think they can learn a lot from them, and I guess we're collaborating a lot more scatter as well. So if I take us even doing FY Twenty one planning around marketing with their ICES. Before we would have just done this internally. We probably wouldn't have spoken to the IRCS too much about it. But we completely flip that around. We whenever coffee wearning sessions to brainstorm with the whole ice community to sporce their ideas and listen to each other and and bounce ideas off each other, and the plan that we've pulled together is based on on...

...all that feedback. So yeah, I guess that's another thing that we're definitely going to keep going as much as we can. That's pretty good. Thanks for as me should not and I think you know, on the personal perspective it. We didn't mention that, but yet I'll being helping each other on this. Is this is this is good. You Know Sonny diary. Some of you had that. I think we needed a little bit as a as a little slip across the face. And and the first he's been kind of riply gating in the business environment. Could can only be good. You know, it's only a good thing, unfortunately coming from a bad thing, but you know, it's a good thing. So let's look at the busy teeth. That lets you out full, isn't it? So we're going to to the ENN F comversation. I could have got on for much stronger but because I think the content of which you gets, what we discussed the Ay was really interesting and and what we do at the end of feature for forsation or each other for podcast, is to ask you guys to just tell our audience what would be the best way to get in touch with you. So, Michell, let's start with you. We've been, you know, ladies first. We've done that. But guess it, let's keep it going. We Free Gentlemen here. So if people want to push the conversation with you, Michelle, and and discuss further or whatever, I could get an existing as v. We could be someone wanted to become an Isev could get us or vendor having an asv program but maybe being a little bit less much or than yours. What's the best way to get all of your mission? And Yeah, probably Linkedin is probably the easiest. With my confusing surname, is just one of me and we sought some Shell and then AUC hi and achie see here make the claim guys. I've longed that. I've longed that at the beginning of the call today. Very good, name by it's good to be different. I say that because my name is different as well. Steve, over to you. What's the best way to get all of you, Steve and yeah, to two to continue the conversation with you? Probably tender again.

Linked A. Nothing to me. Right, Steve Gemmot so, JEM putty, and use the surname, so I should be the only yeah, the only one, or hopefully top of the search list anyway, but certainly linkedin. More than happy. Two People Che Connect that one. Wonderful. Thanks, Steve and and for you make or find out more about cost to I. You can go to the website www castaway forecastingcom, and also what not to make it three out of trade over at Linkedin. Michael Ford, I'm the CEO of castaway forecasting. Find me a lot. I'd be happy to connect. Be Good. I want them an you may go thought there is on Linkedin, though. Well, we say yeah, all right, you guys of Statistics and Ma gap on the spot. So I've just done that. Good job. Great well, many thanks once again for all of your gays. You was great to have you undership today. Say Thank you. Enjoy this thanks R it's fantastic operatics has redefined the meaning of revenue generation for technology companies worldwide. While the traditional concepts of building and managing inside sales teams inhouse has existed for many years, companies are struggling with a lack of focus, agility and scale required in today's fast and complex world of enterprise technology sales. See How operatics can help your company accelerate pipeline at operatics dotnet. You've been listening to be tob revenue acceleration. To ensure that you never miss an episode, subscribe to the show in your favorite podcast player. Thank you so much for listening. Until next time.

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