B2B Revenue Acceleration
B2B Revenue Acceleration

Episode · 1 year ago

88: Is Outsourcing Sales Development On the Rise Again? w/ Dan Seabrook

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Companies are choosing to outsource services much more than they were 6 months ago. 

Particularly for sales development services, but in many other functions, too.

Recently on B2B Revenue Acceleration, we featured Dan Seabrook, VP of Sales at Operatix, on why outsourcing sales development is on the rise again.

We talked about 3 reasons people are seeking outsourcing more than 6 months ago, changing client expectations, outsourcing: Cost vs. Flexibility, and the build and  transfer model of outsourcing

To hear this interview and many more like it, subscribe to The B2B Revenue Acceleration Podcast on Apple Podcasts, on Spotify, or on our website.

You're listening to be to B RevenueAcceleration, a podcast dedicated helping software executives stay on thecutting edge of sails and marketing in their industry. Let's get into the showhi welcome to be to be a revene acceleration. My name is OA mate, andtoday I have the pleasure to be sharing the microphone with Dencybrook, withthe cost of the B to be a revenue acceleration show as well as VP worwilesells autoporitics. How are you today that yeah very good? Thank you it's endof another long week, but it's been a good one, so yeahsoon suntend of quateto be start of a new one, sa Col n Eno, the adition of a couple moregreaters, absolutely absolutely, but today really what we wanted to speakabout and the reason why we wanted to have an Apzad that his wish done isbecause we want to as RESETO PIC of outsourcing we've seen a big spike inour services. In fact, O massive spake intem of demand tremendous amount ofpeople coming to our website, not not all of them being good, and I thinkthen we would address that. But basically, we believe that the alsothing of the BIDEA SD function- LD function is on the rise and the bestperson that I could get on the sho to discuss. That with me is done simplybecause is's trenches every day, specti speaking to prospect speaking toclients and discussing thei strategy with them. So, let's dive in thanRealian and get into the conversation EA. You know wecan speak about Covid,nineteen and all that I mean it is. It is up and down we are lock down, notlock down the market is difficult, it's more difficult to find opportunities,etc, etc. So then, from your perspective, what are the key reasonwhy business isn'td out sousing more at the moment yeah? So I think it's worth,starting with the point that, when covid sort of first impacted the theWestern world, let's say at the beginning of March and time, I wasn'tactually convinced that we would see a shift towards outsourcing. I actuallythought that we could have seen a bit of impact on our business negatively just because of often now the old adageis that marketing budget t get kcut first and in a lot of the cases we'regetting paid for by marketing. I mean said that it's kind of been theopposite. Actually, so I'm sure in some instantiv marking budgets have been cut.I'm sure cfpos are looking at budgets across the board, but what we benefitedfrom is that there's been kind of point. One really is that there's been a shiftof marketing budgets or repurposing O market markting budgets. So where ishistoricaly marting team to e spent a lot of their dollars on events and inperson activities there's clearly been a complete reduction aboar. In fact,there is no longer any inverson events or activities right now, and so theyhade to find another way for a solution to generating the same amount of leadsand fagtline and revenue, because in a...

...lot of cases, atheir targets havestayed consistent and so where, where we've come in an a lot of those casesthat we are, I guess a remote solution to pipeline generation and so Wevbenefited from that. The second point I would make I is a a risk fractor thatcomes with hiring teams, intern or hiring people internally, obviouslywe're in a bit of an uncertain economy right now in all the parts of the worldand there's challenges with recruitment first and foremost. But then, once youget that person on board there's challenges that if the economy takes aturn for the worst, which Ou know many countries, it is there's a challengeswill will we actually still be able to maintain that person's employment insix months or nine month time and so there's a kind of d risk factor whichis you can outsorce for a period of time and not that we like to seeourselves as as an adhock service, but we do bring more flexibility thanhaving an employment contract with with the person that you have internally,and so I think, there's an element of derisking that piplane generationprocess. The final point is that- and it kind of is on the same point as that:the risking piece which is around it gives company BEIVE companies teability to test resorcin before hiring and Ternyan, and I think we'll probablytalk about that more later on, but ultimately with the ability to run aprogram for three or six or twelve o months really test. If that resource isthe right person to work their business rebuild up a run, rail of success getsto the point where they trust them. The communication is in the right place andthen it may be the at that point in time. The economy is more stable sto,they have more confidence, but ultimately we give companies theability to test the Sesse of this kind of function and process before houringinturn and again. That gives a bit more confidente to CFOs and hiring managersduring untple economy, whereby they can actually test the success of of Tisfunction for a three month or asix month or a twelve month period before making the decision to bringthat function internally and that could tie in with with a with an upturn inthe economy. So they have more confidence that that's going to be along term higher, and it also gives them the ability to to actually be ha.Bringing somebody on Goard, that's fully wrapped up trained and itcompletely eradicates that that' kind of typical job abandonment or riskfractor, be. You may see with bringing on board a new HIG, so there they'rewhite sweetbeing, no point but ther'rs. Some of the key trends ave seen overthe OUAN. Okay that there's his very useful in you know. I guess you are used to h to the normal trendsof I want to accelerate my pipline. I want to get to a new RIGIONNA Europeancompany on Israeli company. I want to go to the US or Tis Welsa, I'm a UScompany and I want to grow at I've got in maindonal market. I've already gotan inside team, but I want people who are a bit more practive and all thatwhich I kan of Dho. He usual sellis player. You would have ad preak of it. Ow Is your message or conversation, ouryour conversation with prospect...

...changing base on what you just describe.Have you seen the expectations of client changing? Have you had to adaptthe way you actually sell and consult with them? Yeah? Definitely, I think, Ithink what it all comes back to right now in a lot of cases. Is that we'rehaving to be, I guess more, like consultative and more like consultantsin the sale process? So we've always been. I guess a challenge of based ofconsultative based sales company in in that sense. But what we're seing isthat people that are very experiented, marketers or vvs ofselvs Cros. Clearlythey know they know their job and they know their industry, but they don'treally know what's working, not working across the market today in a changingeconomic environment, ndchanging kind of Lanticat N, and so the first thingis that a lot of the time people are coming to us and asking for our advice,just in a consult if manner d and the good news about oporatic is that weprobably have over a hundred ten active technology cients. And so we have t ethe advantage of coming out those conversations from almost like abirdtipe view where we can look down. Look across the the market and consoltbased on what we're seeing working with other companies of a similar, similarsize and similar market that they're talkting. Now, when it comes toactually investing in this kind of service- and I'm sure it s applies toother Celes and markting services- that they're investing in there definitelyseemd to be more of a an urgency here and now to to get a a very quick return oninvestment. And I think what how that translated in in our world is that,ultimately, they want opportunitis here an now and there a lot of companies aremoving away from a kind of challenge of based approach where they want to bringinsights and and an education to the prospects. I madtheir FOCUSD oncloshing business here and now and again, oboratic whee. We very much havethe the challenge of based approach andwhat we're trying to do it to push back on those companies and actually bringinsight to them to educate them around what we see inWorkn you're, not working today, and enable them to understand that actuallytrying to have a short term view on closing business or generating a returnin an economic downtorn. It's actually not the most sensible way of looking atthings and in fact it's still prudent to take a long term view on salls andmarketing development and pahtline generation and classic example is, asthis week, I've had a couple of conversations with companies wherethey're coming back. After maybe we spoke to them six months ago andthey're saying welwe're desperate to do something now and we're having to moeto push back and say. Well, look, you know where we can help you, but we'renot magicians. This is something that we can support you with over a three orsix or a nine month period, but it's not something that we can turn the tapon and support you to identify opportunities that are going to closetoday and so clearly that pressure is coming down from probably a financeteam of CFFO TA CEO looking down and saying: Well, you must get returnedquickly from your investment, but what...

...we actually believe is is almost theopposite. Is You've got to probably turn your turn, turn your focus to more.How can you bring insights and education and challenge prospects wayof thinking? So that, actually, when they're eay to buy your front of kidand- and I think that is definitely a changing kind of conversation thatwe're having yeahit's probably also shifting the Waythe, the ser team wouldhave to approach the conversation. So I've been in similar conversation whereBasicallya to say, particularly in the channel where you know, people wantlarge opportunities and Thi Awa. You need to put us in Phot of deal that aretwo hundred two hundred and fifty gay. We need to start that at the atthesalove CTSAUCAE, so of this organization of CMOS or stuff like that.But what I'm telling them is a yea we can do or that, but just make sure youdon't go to the meeting with a brush under your arm and a poler pointpresentation of your product just make sure that you go to the meeting to havea conversation. It's a fantastic oppossunity to other conversation with people. Peopleare willing to converse because it's pretatly, you know distructive,what's happening out there and it's a good time for people to say hellook.This is all the issues that weare having people are feeling morecomfortable to speak about the issues, because everybody is in the same is inthe same basket: Yeah Wee all in the same in desummer, in was about say,Welnde, Sam Shit, we're all in the same boat. So I think it's Reay at thispoment that you can, as a said, spelso and come in other conversation reallyasquestion to underst Ond. The context and base on the contents then try toposition your solution or position you offering if, if relevant, by the way,rather just doing the traditionol selling kind of allegorism that hasexisted in the past. You know I want to scale H, Sal, okay, I've got busy erthat get me things, my gays good to mee things. They do a DEM moter for thirtyminutes after the Demowe them. If they want to Bue, if they don't want to buy,we move to the next one. I think things have changed and I think I's veryimportant to reloat the challenge of sels approach which, by the way thebook was kind of written originally as part of e. The downturn in two thousandand eight and train to underson why SA People Wa war still doing good.Sometimes people were still doing good in the downterm, but yeah. I seethere's an Otcortunity from ise perspective, but I think it takes afundamental change in term of expectation from selves, and I agreewith you that ive I have been in the conversation myself with people sayingI need to. I need you to find me, bend qualified opportunities and I'm likeokay, but you know at the moment it's a little bit up in the air and we've gotall those people that will be willing to speak to you. Don't really have aproject as such, but they have an interest and painpoints. They needsomething similar to your stuff, but theyare kind of figuring out what theyshould do. Do you only speak to them or do you want them to wait until someoneels go and kin of influence the mindset and then influence them to Putentralyby the assolution? But I appreciate...

...there is a bit of balancing act, ere and hen. I thinkit's good that you bring that early in the conversation wis prospect, becausesetting up expectation, as we know you know, service business is- is criticalfor the success of the relationship and critical for the success of the program.Now you know one of the descruptive question that we've always have gotten.I don't know if that change or not within the current climate, but it ismore expensive, toout source. Is it an objection that you get O lot at themoment or g see people sayin? No, I don't care about the Causei on Flixdtor do you still have to address the? Is it custing more tooud source questionyeah? For sure I mean I think, that's I think that's a question that we've thatwe fhrached consistently PROBLI ENSO businesses with founded. It's aquestion that probably is coming up even more than ever as well, and what Iwould say is I think that has had an impact on probably some longer salecycles in some instances or perhaps not long as Selocycle, but more of aconsensus based decision whereby there's got to be a lot more sign offfrom a lot more individuals at different levels within the business.So it definitely seen a bit of a shift in terms of the overall paterm ofselling. What I would say is that one of the things at R, one of the elementsthat we're using as a discussion point with prospects, andclient right nowwhen when they raise our objection, is around, I guess the the Opportunity Cossthat they couldlose if they, if they don't evaluate ANOUNC sourcer for the rightreasons and not just based on price. An and one of the things right now is thatyou know we're looking at our business and we've seen a lot of changes overthe last five to six months. One of the first things is that we've had toprobably hire around thirty five thirty six people in the last three to fourmonths alo. Naturally, that brings that that's been a unique challenge in termsof being able to recruit, firstly and identifyig traits and characteristicsand and all of those things when, when not sayin, of a room to get up. Thesecond thing is the onboarding piece which is becoming it was a challenge,but it's something that we could overcome very quickly due to the Shitscale that we're doing it at and because now, in a very short amount oftime, we have the ability to see what's work, Yin', not working due to thefolling of people coming through ther door and and but going back to the overall andoverall challenge ou when companies are evaluating, whether we're more apenseor not. We have to talk about the data and, if we look at our business again,the scale of it is that we have around two hundred people doing the job thatour crint may have one or two or even twenty internally, and the reality isthe amount of data that we can collect instantly in one day is going to takeour clients or prospects. Ten days, if they've got a team of twenty twohundred days, if they'd got a team of one, it's a lot more challenging forthem to keep iterating and refining...

...their process to recruiting it onboarding as they Ese as they navigate their way through this quovid periodand and so what that means is. It increasesa risk when they hire and it in prieces their rate of job abandonment or onboarding abandonment, which is something that is obviously going toalways be a challenge and then moving forward beyond that. Even if they movethrough the on boarding, it probably increases e risk of abandonment in thefirst one or three or six months, and the cost of that the essentially therecruitment afd pretention cost of that someof hy Stot, far away in the cost ofworking with a company like opratic, because the ability that we have toanalyze a data, iterate wit, fineur our approach and making the necessaryadjustment in order to ensure that we have a sild recruitent process of seenethesstransition to the on boarding and then the support and team environment forthem to be successful once they get through the door and ran up ov it firstthree or six months, and because of that we have a really low job, abandommembrat and a very high or very quick. I guess return on our investment inthat they can be successful quickly. And so I think the cost of bjectionkind of goes out the window when you have that conversation, because what itcomes back to is the opportunity costthets, that's Thar's, of not doingsomething or evaluating outsorcing partner. On that basis, then, justlooking purely at the at he salary, comparyea yeah, it's almost like you'respeaking about the cost of adaptation and if you owd up quickly, you're in arisky place and basically weth all the data we've got. I mean I remember theguys, like the team in the US telling me. Oh yeah, we doing a state by stateanalysis. So then we can go back to our clients. Put C N when, when the firstlug done was starting to take place- and you know we would see h thesouthend region being very responsive still, but we would see New York andthe New York Metro, Bustenarea, so kind of east coast and the California westcoast parts of the country being pretty much in shut down very difficult to getanyone to respond to anything. The most next steps of meeting is not takingplace. People just saying: Look, you know: Wev Gone Progress and Ything,basically, people freezing stuff in some states and some ofthor statesbeing able to steal off conversation. I remember the shift hat the gays pre putin place in pretty much two weeks. throue weeks in, in going back to allour clients and saying Okay Wel, we need to put Mo efthouts in those regons,because there is tin an appetite in the SOS origion. We see the stats goingdown and while we can carry on this is not, it doesn't make any economicalsense to keep pushing. So you know all those three adjustments areready fromMa Pespecive, the cause of the other adaptation and as Tret Weth Orde Dhatawe've got, we can adapt quicker and then we canconsert and Sharthos finding those best practices, withour clients it does make.It does make a lot of sense. I WANTYEU...

...to go back to one thing that youmentiond is going to be my lass question to you. I wantyou to go backto the buildand transferm model, so you know instead of me explaining what itis and explaining why it's relevant in today's market without sourcing. But Iguess you know. The whole point is that we have had to adapt ourself as well,and we hade to make out sourcing more affordable, more persinant, morerelevant for clients. So can you can you just touch base on the on theBuildang, transform model and Deas of things that we've deveroped to adaptourselves to the tthat ever changing market at the moment? Yeah? Absolutelyso, I think in terms of outsourcing, it seems to be a trendthat has peaks and troughs over the year, based on whatever research isreleased by analyst form like Gartner or forest oor CB over over the period of yet. But having said that at anyone time, Ithink it's good that at some point our clients or companies out there willwant to have functions. Internity N for most of their functions in theirbusiness and what weare trying to really do is is offer a solution towork with a company like us, hopefully a lrong period of time. But if it's fora shorter period of time, they have the ability to actually get more than justa a short andtop program with an alsort company and antually, perhaps get theresorce from that as well. What we've we trid to develop is almost a conceptaround a conveybele of talent, which is we don't want to become a reprovementcompany, so we're not going to organization with t the valueproposition of. We want to be a sourcer of staff Beltin, but at the same timewe're giving the me the ability to test people before they actually hireinteanly and O oltome. What that means is gopleor thing. The first thing isthat at times, if, for example, we're working with a startup that are justtransitioning from the US to Europe, O vit versa, they may not really have theinfrastructure or the team or even an office whatever may be, to actuallybuild it in enternity, and they may not even have the inclination to do that.But if, if there's some point, they do want to do that. But perhaps today isnot quite the right time. It may be for a one year period, they're, verytransparent ent. They will look. We want to work with you for twelve months,but at x point in the future. We want to start building that functioninternally and we give them kind of seemless way to do that, whichis we can work with them for that period of time they can test thesuccess of a certain resource or resources. They can develop processeswhich can be you know, consulted on by us, so we can help them to developprocesses. We can test the resident of the message in the market. If that's athat's a necessary thing to do. We can refine the approach and then we can getto a point where the resource is fully wrapped up, trained, delivering goodresults and they have confidence in them and sa that point in time thatthey can regruit that person and then they're, not on positive impact of thatis at when they're hiring that person it's almost a noriskkiter, so they they skip that piece that I was talkingabout around Job Abandonand, O boarding...

...abandom, and they skip that becausethat person fully trained trusted in brant up now, oclearly there's athere's, a cost that comes along with that which is very similar to how youpay a recruiter. But the value is for the reasons I described before, so it'skind of coming a lot more of a trend. Again, we don'twant to be seen as a recruitant company, but we're giving the we're givingcompanies the ability to have a seamless kind of transition away fromthat outsort model to perhaps a hybrid outsource in source model to to a fullyinsource model at someone in the future, yeah that makes sense that makesperfect sense cor. Thank you very much for your time today. Then Het was greatchatting with you and thiscuse fo little bigger. We just went through. Ifanyone wants to connect with you, I mean we probably would know what tofind you, but I guess slingtin would be the best way. Yeah that would be thatd,be the most appropriate way. Okay, coud great many things once again and yeahit was. It was great to have you in the show, we'll see you in the office verysoon. One for thank you very much. UPPERADICS has redefined the meaning ofrevenue generation for technology companies worldwide, while thetraditional concepts of building and managing insize sales teams in househas existed for many years. Companies are struggling with the lack of focus,agility and scale required in today's fast and complex world of enterprisetechnology sales. Seeo operatics can help your company accelerate pipelineat operatics. Dot Net you've been listening to be to be revenueacceleration to ensure that you never miss an episode subscribe to the showin your favorite podcast player. Thank you so much for listening until nexttime.

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