B2B Revenue Acceleration
B2B Revenue Acceleration

Episode · 1 year ago

92: Revenue Generation X Brand Building w/ Efrat Fenigson

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Deciding whether to focus on revenue generation or on brand building can feel like the two halves of the brain being at war.

The truth is that organizations need to nurture both building their brand and generating revenue at the same time. But how?

In this episode, we interview Efrat Fenigson, VP Marketing at Mindspace and Co-founder at G-CMO, about revenue generation versus brand building.

We talked about the left side & right side of the brain, actionable strategies for sales & marketing alignment, and the case for building brand.

Check out this resource we mentioned during the podcast the G-CMO podcast is Marketers In Capes and G-CMO has even more podcast resources.

To hear this interview and many more like it, subscribe to The B2B Revenue Acceleration Podcast on Apple Podcasts, on Spotify, or on our website.

You were listening to be tob revenue acceleration, a podcast dedicated to helping software executives stay on the cutting edge of sales and marketing in their industry. Let's get into the show. Hi, welcome to be to be a revenue acceleration. My name is aim with you and I'm here today with Effrat Fedisen, VP marketing at mind space, and confounder GCMO. I want you to do today affront. I'm very well. Thank you. How are you? Yeah, great, great, great, great. So I'll discussion today will be around revenue generation versus Brent building. All right, so I'll do CEOS and CFOs are going after marketing people with a stake and say you're spending so much money in red building. Why is my money back? But but before we go to the conversation, would you mind just introducing yourself to audience explain maybe a little bit more about mind space, but also your organization, or your group, Gcmo, and what you create it? Absolutely so. I'm based out of Israel right now, talking to you from Tel Aviv, and I've been around take and marketing for the past twenty years, and it started as a computer software engineer and moved slowly to business and marketing. I've worked in many tech companies and ran marketing organizations in various types of startups or larger organizations. I have GCMO, which will will discuss in a moment, which is a community of Israel's top one hundred CMOS from global company. So G stands for global and I have a video cast and a podcast which I run with a friend and we talked about marketing and strategy's in Hebrews has for the Israeli audience and I'm an advocate for personal branding. Personal branding for me is a passion and I have a community on facebook for four thousand people and we talked about personal branding a lot and I let her about it too. And at Mine Space, I'm the VP of marketing. I joined the company in the beginning of the year, so couple of months before corona time, so very that's occasion, very specially, very smooth sailing into them and buying space. Is a global company with dirty offices, thirty branches around Europe and the US. We have sixteen cities that were located in in Germany, for example. We have eight offices in the Netherlands, in the UK, in Romania, in Poland and in the US. Basically we provide flexible spaces for companies of all sizes, whether you're startup or a large enterprise. We provide different types of flexible offices, whether it's a small suite, a small office or private suite or a whole floor for a company. We also have some casual spaces for meetings or recordings or event spaces, and minds is a very unique company because the emphasis is strongly on our customer service, which is very high in its stand dirts, and also our design and art, which we're advocates for, and each location is beautifully designed, very differently from one another and also very, very much adapted to the city that we're in. So we're not in the cookie cutter approach. Each location is totally different and I love that company because it has such unique brand and values, and we will talk about that more because that's that's the session. So does the session. Yeah, I'm a setup. I've seen the look of Jare a must mesurface and it looks really, really good. You know, I've got to say the funiture and everywhere a bit jealous. I'm trying to pick up somebody's from my own living room now. Yeah, we're glad. It's okay, this is this is it. It looks really good. So I fact, we know that finding the right balance between brand building and river, you generating activities in marketing is kind of a common challenge and seems to be faced by many be to be market all about the worlds. Yeah, do you relate to that? First and where do you think? What do you think the right balance is between both the building the brand and the more longer known rover and you generating...

...as such, in the short term activity is not scially generation. Oh yeah, so I totally relate to that and I think that each marketing department probably has that phenomena of splitting it itself to the left side of the brain and the right side of the brain. That's how I like to look at it, and I think that on the left side of the brain we're looking at demand, general ration, Lee Generations, things that are in shorter cycles and will allow us to create revenue in a shorter pace, and we will be very much driven by acquisition and creating revenue. Our review will be more short term view and we will do a lot of paid and guerrilla and and short term campaigns to satisfy this left side of the brain. And then on the right side of the brain, will take care of our brand identity and reputation. Will look at organic tools and tactics like content marketing, like pr like brand campaigns, and our main goal would be to generate awareness and be top of mind with our audiences and and have our audience identify with the personality of our brand. And I think that it's a very long term process and the results are seeing with time and it takes time to see them, but I think that when that right side of the brain is properly in placed, it definitely complements the left side of the brain and allows it to function in a lot in a much better way. So I definitely relate with that statement and I think that in order to have a good operating marketing machine and your organization, you should nurture both these left side and right side of the brain. I think young startups, I've been working with a lot of startups in my career, and I think that young startups put more emphasis on the left side of the brain and they're going for okay, how can we acquire new customers, new investors and and what do we need to do in order to generate that demand, which is very important, no doubt, and it needs to be there. But they neglect, I think, the right side of the brain, and that's something that I would say for younger startups, if they can start thinking of who they are, what's the identity of their company, what kind of messages, what kind of values they want to convey to their audiences, that from a very early stage, that would help their target audience to connect with their company in a much stronger way and will allow them to do their core left side of the brain work in a much more efficient way. Yeah, that makes sense. That makes perfect sense, and we know that's marketing, marketing, engineeral or controve, is value in generating revenue. If there is no cruise alignment with cells, okay, so illn't you get that true collaboration between marketing and cells, particularly when it comes to something like branding? Wow, you know, branding may sounds probably more on the cell side of the conversation are but branding mysels like that nice fluffy activity maybe for service guy, and that's really what we'll get us, commission at the end of the mount so to question. I'll do you manage that alignment and I'll do you get that by it? How do you get their buy and how do you make I'm absolutely great, great questions. I think it's also super relevant right now when we're in this economical crisis time and companies are way more sales driven than they were before because everyone got hit in some way in this crisis. So I think that the pressure in a way is put more on marketing right now to justify the budgets, to justify the positions, to justify the head counts, and if marketing teams will not be sales oriented, I think it would be a great challenge for them. So now more than ever, I think that this question is so relevant because if you don't create that alignment with sales, you are in a problem. And yes, that's CFO...

...and that cro of the organization. How do you make them your partners and how do you align with them in a way that when you ask for that budget for brand building, they'll be bought in? And so I think the first thing I'd say about that is communication. First of all, internal communication in the company, educating the company, and I'm not just talking about the CFO in the cro but I'm talking about all your sales rits, all your field representatives, whatever their positions are, whether their customer service or maintenance, whatever it is. They need to be bought in to the concept of okay, we generate business and we bring revenue, but we also help this company be who it is, yeah, and what it stands for work. And once they feel that the identity of the company is quite clear and the messaging is clear for them and the kind of brand work and brand campaigns that we generate make them feel proud. It helps them sell, it helps them do their work better right, and so if they understand that that right side of the brain, that brand building work is work that is essentially helping sales, then they will support it. So it starts with education and communication, and I do a lot of internal communication inside the company to always, and I encourage my cot my team to do the same, to always communicate first internally about stuff that we're doing, let the other employees know what's coming out in one day or in two days, and then launch it and then they see and then we talk to them about it. So they're always like part of our work and they're experiencing our work as part of the company's work. Now, on a more tactical stage, we as marketing we build our goals right up from the sales goals. So my goals from my team are the closed one opportunities of sales. They don't get goals from me for s qls or, you know, and qls. They get goals from me on how many sales, how many workstations have we sold in our spaces, because those are the sales goals and when the marketing team and the sales teams are aligned on the same goals it's much easier to drive to the same place. So even people on my marketing team that have brand related positions, they know that ultimately their work is supposed to drive sales, even if they're measured on other things like they're measured on, for example, engagement or traffic or whatever, because they're doing brand stuff. They know that in the end of the day the goal of organic traffic is to see how many one deals we got out of organic traffic. You know what I mean. So I may not I may not give them the bonus based on that, but they know that in the end of the day that's what we're looking at. Now. The other thing is that I align my team on the sales goals all the time. So quarterly or every six months, every twelve months, they know what the sales team's goals are and they know, as a result of that, what our goals are. So there's constantly discussions about that. There's also some small stuff that I do to just keep it in existence all the time. For example, I have a daily sales force report that is being sent to the whole marketing team to look at a table with all the deals that we've signed in the previous day, so they see in which location it was, what we sold, how much it was sold for, who's the customer, and it keeps them much closer to the field to what we're actually selling and what we're actually doing. Now, you would say, you would argue that's sales work right, like why would they care? Because they started it, like I have the lead source there and I have you know when it started and which location, so they can feel proud that their work is actually contributing to the bottom line of the company and they all get it every morning now. As...

...a result of that, the management team also was so excited about this report that they also asked to get it. So the whole management team is now seeing this report every morning and my marketing team. That's another small thing that I do. The other thing is I constantly show our work internally. So whenever we succeed with something or we launch a very nice campaign, I make a point of communicating that by email to the whole company and by a slag and then obviously social media, etc. So they're constantly seeing our work. It's not like I would be very surprised if someone came to me or one of my team members and say, what is this thing you're working on? Why didn't anyone tell us? Like everything it, we have very high level of visibility, so there are no surprises and everyone knows how to anticipate our next steps and their next steps. As a result of that, I make sure that there are weekly synchronization meetings between M team members and the field sales rips. I have ongoing sync meetings with our head of sales and I think the Nice thing about this close collaboration is the fact that they see us as partners because when they want to now launch a new sales initiative in their market, they come to us first, like they speak to us. They consult with us and we do stuff together and we support them. So I think that we managed to create a real team environment between sales and marketing in the different markets that we work in or for the different products, and it's you need to do a lot of small things that will aggregate to a good collaboration. But if, if what drives you, I'm going back to the beginning, if what drives you is that the sales and the marketing teams are really sharing the same goals and the same measurement, then I think that's the starting point to align sales. Certainly right. First of all, thank you so much for going for that, because this is proper, in the strenchy type of advice of what you are doing, like, not just like a theority call over view of what should be done, but that's what you are doing. You know, I was listening very, very attentively, and what comes to my mind at the end of all those things that you went through is really, you know, to get your brand out, you need to build the your own branding timidly. You know you are speaking about being a massive advocate for pussonal Brending, but that's technically what you are doing with in your organization, at your level, the marketing team level, and that the cells and marketing team walking together a level. Okay, so you've got different level of branding there and I really like that because it does actually does make sense. And my next kind of question is but management, because I was I feel ashamed to say it but I'm going to say it anywhere. What's kind of particularly when we first started at operatics, really earlier on, I was not a big believer in branding. I just so that you know, branding will come from world of mass. Yeah, branding will come from we do a good job for someone, that someone will speak to their friends and then you go to someone else, etc. Etc. And then the fund starts ringing and that's okay when your moment bok shop, small business. But then as time went by, the ambition can of change. And I think I've said that origin on a few on a few podcasts. But one day, funnily enough, he was preserved with an Israeli company that are now clients of us. Actually just become a clients recently, two months ago, but I met with the CEO in London and they said, look about a lot about you. I've got a lot of good things about operatics, but really the only thing that I'm not sure it is can of afford your services, and that, for me, is kind of okay. This is it? So all the monetive invests in brand building is that sentence was like, okay, I've got the realization of what it means. Now it's putting me in that category where maybe the world of Mosses as hell, but also all the other things that we've done, the way we communicate about the success, because technically, what you are doing, internally, what you just went through, is...

...what a company should do for that branding is to speak about what they're doing, communicate, not wait for someone to communicate, not wait for someone else to do something. Everybody should communicate us from the cleaner. The cleaner should say that I'm happy to go and clean that company. It's a great company to clean. Fall up to the see you, you know, and everybody should really push that message out and I think we're really at what we actually then it's in walking progress, but we are much better at it. But Gudy, Tech Mountains to move to convince me. So I'd like to unders on your if it's just me, that was an issue for my own company and my own boat or neck. Or do you also face that? We see over, we see sweet what people are like. Is a a CFO or CEO? What that kind of you know, is a technique or technical minded or finance minded, and don't really get the concept of branding until they actually see it. Yeah, so you hit the nail on the head. It's not just your problem. Many people don't get it. Well, don't. Don't get it because they think like you, that you know it will come if it needs to come and we're doing a good job. It will come from other people, and I agree with you that there's nothing better than word of mouth. That's the best marketing method heads down. However, in order to get to the word of mouth, you need to work. All right, it doesn't happen very quickly to get to word of mouth and in order for people to start talking about you like that customer of yours heard about you from many different people. That takes some work and if you don't put who you are in a very clear, in a very compelling way out there, other people will not start doing it for you without any incentive or, you know, just because you're nice and they had a good experience. I mean, some of them will do it, but it's the only like the minority early adapters, most people want to do it. So if you give people the tools and if you give them the messages and you give them the visual tools and you teach them what's important and what's valuable and what you would like them to say about you, they would probably do it because you give them everything and then it's very easy work for them to do. But you need to give it to them, because most people are too busy and they don't have time to do your work for you. Right. So there's a way to push in a way word of mouth to drive it, and I think that every person can relate to that, whether there is CFO or a CEO or a technical person or a salesperson, can relate to the fact that the best way to be convinced is if someone told you about something and gave you a good recommendation. So if you can communicate clearly to your peers and to those tough people that the work you'll do is will is essentially a driver for word of mouth, they will collaborate with you. Yeah, and and you're absolutely right that a brand for for the marketing team and a brand for sales and marketing and a brand for a person who does the work is as important as the brand of the company itself. Yeah, right, and and it all starts with like clarifying for yourself who am I? What are my values, what's my personality, my characteristic? How would I like to be perceived? WHO's my target audience? And then go for it. So in this O caase, like my target audience is my employees in the company, right, yeah, right, yeah, or am I my C level calling? Yeah, and I think you know also work. Some company comes shot and let's let's point on the topic, is they always have one person that is the print build. So you see a lot of companies, while the CMO is the bread builder and that's super active. They share a lot of things, lichten and stuff like that, but then nobody, it's like his is on his own, you know, and I think that's that's okay. But and what we're trying to do at Paratix is structurally say to our guys, you know, because we've got a lot, lots of very appem plays. You know, we've got people who are ready appear from every stage in the companies. People would get the bottoms of people are in the middle,...

...some people at the top. The people tend to be relatively happy and we try to keep them happy. This is important. APIC customers, you know, I pick. I'm sorry, happy staff, uppy employees makes up customers right, but were trying to encourage them to communicate more and so well, don't be shy. No, speak about your experience on linking. Be Honest, be ourself. We don't need to write something for your marketing. Don't need to put that things together. You re sharing something like that. That podcast, the Piezode, for example, is it's not really brending from me. For for me, branding is you saying about your experience as an individual within the company to the rest of the world and saying is telling about something that you've ad shived. Okay, obviously in the respecting DNDA, but that will give identity, that will give character, and I will give you know. I think what I would be seeking for if I us to recast is that's what people care about. People don't care about your new white paper earlier on, your podcasts and things like that, unless they happen to know someone or it's of interested them or the topic is of interest to them and they are doing some self education at the moment. But, quite frankly, when you look at those social network but I'm speaking about Clinton in the particular Yah, it's crowded. Yeah, provided so what you are looking you are looking for real emotion, really connective you know, and that's what we are trying to do at the moment, the exercise of emotional connection, emotional brain building through guys. Just speak about your experience, because what you tell me is beautiful. I love to hear it internally. Now let's go and share it with the world, and that's what we're trying to get an example, I must give you an example about exactly what you're talking about. The other day we had one of our community managers, community sales managers in Poland, receive a book are of flowers to the office from one of our customers and their company called think, from Sweden. They do like a financial payments. Yeah, and it's a large company think. So they sent her a book of flowers to say thank you for the beautiful process she took them through to sign their listener office. So there are costs, they're happy customer, right, and they sent our flowers in the end of the process us, after they signed a contract, saying that they took I don't remember if it was fifty or a hundred people office in Poland, and they send us the I mean the team in in Poland sent us the photo of the lady with the flowers and I told them straightaway or are you sending it to me perfect please uploaded to, first of all the Poland linkedin page, and we have a Polland facebook page, but to your individual pages and be proud of your work. Yeah, they asked for some help, so I gave them a little bit of text to put and they upload the photo of her with the flowers and we tag think and we said thank you and they all did it and then I did it as well, and then the whole company, almost the whole company, did it. Everybody knows about it photo and they posted it and it was one of the most successful posts we ever had on Linkedin. Imagine like twenty or thirty different people shared it, the same photo, and so it was like burnt in people's minds. And then the story of how a customer is saying thank you after a sales process. You know, it's something quite unique, pretty powerfulia and a lot of other people said like in the Commons, wow, this is one of the best, you know, proofs there are for who you are as a company. Like you don't need to do much more than that. Yeah, so it's about listening really and and giving your employees the power to do it, like listening to what is happening in the field and then once something happens and there's a trigger, you just encourage them to use their power. And absolutely, but there is there is that sort of resistance, I think, from people. Well, I was speaking to one of my stuff as like look, this fantastic. You should share that on Linkedin as our I don't know, I don't know from and I was like, you know, I follow you on instagram. I can see your dinner pretty much every day, which I don't care about. Right, that's not really bread. Birthday, if you want to actually share that stuff, this is the sort of things you want to share. This is meaningful. But there is a resistance of Oh, that's a bit of cloud. What would my calling think about me? What other people would think about...

...me? What actually I think? You know, in the business world it is nice to be nice. I think it's also something a fantastic message to would think out as a company, right, because that act of kindness is something at text two minutes right, to get someone some flowers, you just need to get your card ready, gone the website, booth of you go. That's beautiful from them. Whether done that in their company is also a great advocate for that company brand, because doing that is such a gesture. You know, it's a simple things. Doesn't catch trust money next someone's Day. We make sure that your stories would be good after very simple thing like a thank you or please, you know. But anyway, we could get on farther, because that's I'm starting to get another episode and personal branding, because you're caught your way. Have to is your employees. Problem is something that everyone has and it's that balance between being humble and, yeah, fraid of how you'll be perceived. And people are just too busy being humble and they don't understand that during that time that their humble, many other people are like cross saying the higher way with showing off their achievements and they're losing business. So yeah, there's a whole other episode we should do about. Well, before that, you go do I've got one question for you. So I know that you're the the confronder of GCMO, which is a community that brings together Israel stop CMO from global companies, startups and VC's. It would be great if you could tell us a little bit more about GCMO and what motivated you to stop that community. Yeah, good, good one. So GCMO, we started the community about two, two and a half year, two and a half, three years ago, and we started very small because we're a group of CMOS that just needed someone to consult with. Sometimes you don't have anyone else in the company that shares the same problems and challenges, so you go to colleagues and so a few, few of us just came together and it started building and before we knew it were one hundred people from some of the biggest global companies in Israel. You probably know some of them, like and dogs or you know patricks variants. A lot of tech, but not just so the stream glasses USA like. There are a lot of consumer be to see, but also be to be and basically we wanted to position Israel, Israel's top marketing executives, as world leaders and marketing, because many people know Israel to be very good with developing technology, but they don't know enough how we're good with also driving that growth of the startup nation with the way we tell stories and the way we do mark getting. So that was the first goal. The second one was to create a community that will support and provide a think tank for us as Cmo so we can consult each other. And the third objective was to create a networking and career development platform for the CMOS, because it's also it's a small country. We have a lot of positions that are coming out and marketing and we can help each other with advancing in our career. So one of the things that I'm really proud of is the fact that, I forget to say we have a what's up group for the scare people. Yeah, and we talked daily in the whats up group. So imagine a what's up group that on a daily basis. You have discussions, not every week, every day. So one hundred people like buzzing with questions to each other, like who used operatics before? Can you recommend them? Can you give me a good vendor for PR in Japan? You know, how do you manage a team with bonuses or whatever kind of question you can think about, it's being put there and just people help each other. And so we do demos together for platforms, for marketing technology platforms, for example. We do academic programs with universities where some of our CMOS are speakers at those programs, helping the next generation of marketeers to learn about global marketing. We do speaking opportunities and various conferences, round table sessions to consult with each other. We provide career support, so when someone is leaving a position, they tell the forum that they just left so people know...

...that if there's an opportunity, they will connect them or we, as the founders, we help people that are in between jobs to get opportunities. So it's a really unique experience. We have the the what's up group on a daily basis. We have one to two professional sessions a month. Right now it's on zoom because of Corona, but normally it's once or twice a month in someone's office just host the whole community and we get sponsored by Google, for example, or other branding agencies that want to host us and and do things for us. So I think it's a very powerful tool for us as individuals. CMOS, but also for us as a group to get better offers from various sources, from better stakeholders. But also, I think the best thing is just the fact that you can, you know, pink someone and get an advice and get help within minutes. So see these of employees go in and out of the group every day, like, yeah, here's a great guy who does S. Dr is a great guy who does growth, great lady who does, you know, communications and PR who wants to hire them such as. So it's a beautiful tool. And DCMO is. Yeah, it's a great community. So you can follow us on social media. We have are with social media. I will we are. Will notice that's that's qreat and that I like that K's Infiat. We see lots Mestrin, like you know, people getting to get and there is a very strong community the rest of the watch take example, and I think it's it's a great way to go. Boy, were interviewed several times about the model and how we did it, because just to share the the knowledge with other countries. We may take it international one day, but for now you go dream big, and I would say also that we have a podcast called the market tears and Capes. It's in English, so you can find it on the market here in capes like ship Ross and caps. Yes, and one of our members is actually the host of the podcast. His name is a done and he interviews a different GCMO member every month. So it's it's very interesting, wonderful. Well, thanks for what if FRAT. It was wonderful to have you on the show today. As you say, we probably in another session to speak about off not branding. But before we we get going, last question I ask is if anyone wants to get in touch with you to discuss month space, to discuss GCM? What? What's the best way to connect with your friends? I think the easiest is linkedin. I'm on twitter and facebook as well, but linkedin is where I do most of my professional stuff, so that's okay. There you go. So that's a frat fending sun, which is FEENIG S N, and if Rad ef are at. Very simple. It was wonderful to have ya on the shows. Thank you very much for coming today. Thank you for having me. You've been listening to BEDB revenue acceleration. To ensure that you never miss an episode, subscribe to the show in your favorite podcast player. Thank you so much for listening until next time.

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