B2B Revenue Acceleration
B2B Revenue Acceleration

Episode · 1 year ago

100: Becoming a Unicorn: A Journey of Rapid Growth & Scale

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

It’s the dream of many tech companies — becoming a unicorn,meaning that the company has reached a valuation of $1 billion.

On this special 100th episode, we hear stories from a panel of guests about how their companies reached or helped other companies reach that milestone, the challenges they encountered along the way, and the tips they have for others aiming to do the same.

Our panel includes:

Didi Dayton, Partner at Wing Venture Capital

Dimitri Sirota, CEO of BigID

Thomas Been, CMO at Druva

Thibaut Ceyrolle, EMEA Founder at Snowflake

To hear this interview and many more like it, subscribe to The B2B Revenue Acceleration Podcast on Apple Podcasts, on Spotify, or on our website.

Listening on a desktop & can’t see the links? Just search for B2B Revenue Acceleration in your favorite podcast player.

You're listening to BB revenue acceleration, a podcast dedicated helping software executive stay on the cutting edge of sales and marketing in their industry. Let's give under the show. Hi, welcome to be to be a revenue acceleration. My name is only Muti, and today we are celebrating a very important milestone for our podcast. We have reached hundred episodes. The journey started two and a half years ago and and although the under epizos, we will come some amazing guests within the BTB Tech Space Take Industry that share some great insights with you, audience, are listeners, so we would like to thank you as well for listening to our show. Some of you have been very vocal, reaching out, as king for more, and we really appreciate that. This is what we want. We want some feedback on what we are doing and, to be honest with you, we reached the younger episode simply because we saw an appetites. We so people encouraging US and sometimes it's difficult to keep going. So again, a massive thank you to audience, because without you, the show would not exist. For the hundred's episode, we are broadcasting the audio of a recent virtual event that operatics promote it, and that event was titled Becoming a Unicorn, a journey of rapid growth and scale. We will end up some great pinalists and that share some very untastic insight, and I hope that you guys enjoy the episode today. Let's get into the show. Okay, II everyone, welcome to our events today. Becoming a unice on a journey of rapid growth and scale. I'm all in with you, the CEO and Co founder of operatics. Operatics is the company that aims be to these software companies to accelerate pipeline and revenue across EMA and North America. Today I have the pleasure to welcome a fantastic, well fundasy bunch of penalties, actually quite a fun bunch as well. We will be sharing how they have and the company to become a uniquem unique one, if you don't know what that is, is a company that is reaching a valuation of one billion dollars. So that's quite interesting and quite an achievement. But before we dive into the conversation, what I wanted to encourage all the people who will be listening on to the cold today is to share questions, share their sorts in the chat, just so we can, towards the end of the conversation, go back to those questions and share this question with the penalty so they can give you the answer. So let's start with some introduction ladies. First, did you want to go and briefly introduce yourself wing VC, the company you represent? Yeah, I thank you. It's an honorady be here and thanks so much. It's great to be here in such a steam company. My name is did dating and I'm a partner wearing venture capital. My role is to bring innovation to our CEXO community, which is about sixty thousand enterprise executives, and also to give our portfolio company access to our customers. So I spent the last twenty years as a global operator and hyper gross startups, three of which we're actually UNICORNS and based in California, and I'm also my household department. Thanks for that. Did these things for that, Dmitry. Would you like to go next? Yeah, sure, happy to everybody. Dmitris road, US CEO profounder company called the ID. We're headquartered in New York, calling you from and then we have development in Tel Aviv and roughly about five years old. Three of people run around the world, Europe and the US, Israel, Asia, America, etc. Glad to be here. Thank you for having me. Thank you, Dmitry, to us. Hi everybody. My Name Is Thomas Bean and the see chip marketing officer at Dreuva Data Protection Company. We're about eight hundred employees prison globally. And before that I spent fifteen years in a company called TIPCO doing integration and now takes and I had different lives, starting from pre cells tales and then marketing to own roles focused on the on the customer interaction. Good and less, but at least Teobo. Hello only everybody. My name is t boo. Cells in the UNIA from the off Snowflick, so high, all in March seven, seventeen, so four years up to build a forms catch the business in your Middle East Africa. I work in the software industry for more than twenty years. So fast, not flick. I've been the first employee outside the US and I started see training a very small fist and I will probably share more in a very smaller fish in Beddington and skills business, now in in Fote in different different countries. Yeah, I must have done well, something was good in the in the method. Thanks to all. So coming back to a topic ...

...and getting a started, guys, further to the introduction, we know that currently there are about five hundred tech companies that have reached the one billion dollar valuation around the world, and that's including a huge number of startup being funded across the globe, but only one percent of them actually make it to the unique on club. So, first of all, well done for all of your guys for your participation. Making that one person me in your case, did he probably helping a few organization to get there. But what I would like to understand is, was it your plan, guys, when you started? So and maybe Dmitrie you you would be a good person to answer that question, but was it something that you actually plan was was the aided to become a uniquorn when you started the business? What we're what do you start the Johnny? Yeah, so the the interaction was to grow up business. I saw my prior company, so I think the just time around. I think the hope was to be able to build a business that could sustain and remain independent. Now along that trajectory, you know, obviously here in public you're probably going to be an accessible billion dollars in valuation. So yeah, so it wasn't necessarily about being a Unicorn as much as it was about building an independent company and then growing it out. So that was that was the goal. Good, well, it's been in for years. He's quick, ease, quid achievements. So what's next? When you get down basic? GIG guests would be my question. When you reach jent good, what's what's Nift? Well, though, there's there's decka core, there's there's candy corn. No, so I think look, at the end of the day, you try and build a business. Now Being Unicorn is, I don't think, as unique as it used to be. So you mentioned one percent of companies, kind of a reach out of houstone. It seems almost daily, you know, you see an announcement from tiger, global, Minte, somebody else's as a as the Unicorn. I think they're doing that Unicorn deal of day. So look, I don't think that is the endpoint. Clearly, you want to build a business and a business is not predicated on having a horse with a horn. It's founded on having revenue and happy customers. That are preference of all, and about building demand generation was, as you guys do, it our products. So there's a lot of things that you worry about. As as a CO founder of a company, I think it's nice to certainly get a recognized as a Unicorn. It it gets you on panels like what we are today. But, almoly, I think the focus is always about how do we build, build a growing business? Rights that means I tightline services in our supporting customers, those kind of things. Yet that makes perfects and sting. Dmitrit so, did you? Moving to you, wing invested in several vendos at very early stage. In fact, twenty two off your company bought for you. I've achieved a billion dollar plus outcomes in from of valuation. From your perspective, what are the traits that VC are looking for, or should be looking for, when they are deciding to invest their found are there any specific buttonless you try to identify or to go aft? Yeah, and and maybe I'll share a little bit about wing so you understand who we are and our investment strategy. We're an early stage investment firms. So we were founded by Peter Wagner from Excel and grow of guard from Sequoia. Would we invest in is typically see it and series a companies before it's obvious, and the great example of that is snowflake. We invested in two thousand and twelve and snowflake in their sea ground and that was very much before I was obvious that they would sort of take over. You know a lot of this cloud transformation. Yeah, effort, that's happened. So our investment strategy. We believe that the modern enterprises data driven and we made concentrated bets in certain focal areas, which has helped generate that twenty two billion and outcomes for our portfolio. What do we look for? We look for category creators. We look for founders that have a customer first mindset and the Passion for excellence. It was great to hear Dmitri say that. And you know, customer first. And we look for the size of the market, we look for any friction getting to that market and differentiation of the actual solution. So ideally for companies that have founding teams with experience and drive. And the way that we support those companies is we give them three things. We give them funding, we give them talent and we give them access to customers, which is what I do. So I help shape that relationship between those first customers, sometimes for product market fit, and then a lot of times it's the earliest customers that they get and try to build a solid foundation in their demand generation and, you know, complement that with their engineering. So the foundation basically getting gives. Yeah, well, you guys do to write is absolutely in fact. You know, we we've all said we've warped so many...

...of the company hat of gotten, you know, done some fantastic stuff, of died. I was speaking to some of my vendos recently and I picked up a one particular. These cushion at the head with one of them and what he was telling me is it. Look, we are cloud security and you know, category the valuation is Sel ty time the revenue. So really what I want from operatics is, how can you get us to silties remedion? How can we Wuk together, because he's not just us, of course, but to get to set free million donals of and you are ripperring revenue or salty formul and so these three point five. So what's well, doing the maths, but that's basically what they were looking at. Is that the sort of valuation that companies are looking at the selty times revenue to the way we should be looking at it. Did he on anyone ere's by do it? Yeah, Dmitri might want to help answer that question as well. there. So the numbers us going down as those are right said the security space. You know, I don't call out the companies, but I believe both two that are well under ten and you know, I believe under five. So look, I think I think increasingly the you know, I think there's a different kind of calculation that people are doing. I think historically, certainly, it was a multiple of revenue and you know, maybe at some point in history was multiple of earnings or profit. I think today it's largely driven by size of addressable market and I think people are using a different kind of bench mark. It's lot easier to go public now through spacks, directly seeing the capital rays, and so I think greasingly people are saying, well, you could be, you know, number one, two or three in a market. There's a vehicle for you to probably go public. And now it seems that the current valuations are really measured on kind of fraction like. So I think it's kind of inverted where people are looking at the end point and say, okay, well, I can kind of get in. It went at that price and that's a that's a fair calculation. I think it's you know, again, maybe it all reverts, but I do think even from the time we started big ide where was more multiple on revenue, you've certainly seen expansion and those multiples, but I think over the last year and maybe just during the period of Covid, it seems to detach completely from from revenue whatsoever and seems to flip more on you know, what is this company to be worth when it those public? Okay, I mean I think the consensus is that the valuations are insane. Yeah, that's probably what I was going with. It is it's and and as you're saying to me true, probably at that conversation literally scree months ago, is the clients and they seems that since that things have changed already. So you could do a little bit less and still still get there. So that that's so. Does that mean that we just put like a stemp on it and you could have a fantastic technology and we think you've got a great future? So there you go. You Thought of the unique on club ball. What do you need to to a fight to have to be financially sound. I mean was the was the minimum, because the technology is great, if future is great. But I'll do you. How do we detell? Mean, who is putting this valuation? Is it the market? is in the VC's is the large organization that wants to make acquisition? Look at think one thing that you're seeing and maybe I'll kind of just volunteer at least a partial answer. I know I kind of talked about my perspective that we've seemed to untethered from from kind of multiples on revenue, and I think today the investors should clearly are the ones that are meeting the uniforms right. And you've seen a lot more companies enter what I think sometimes our characterized as cross ober funds that maybe we're public hetch funds are invested the companies. There's a number of them. You've seen PE funds get involved. You certainly seen large asset managers get involved and with more money chasing deals. And again they're coming in because it's they're getting a discount to the public price. Right. That's part of the reason you're seeing this kind of change and calculation, because you're getting public investors that are coming in and buying buy its private companies. That to them seem like a bargain. Maybe to some of the earlier investors seem exaggerated, inflated, but I think that's part of the part of the change and you've seen. But Yeah, look, the investors decide. If your work something right, you get a Turgy. There's a number there and that's your you know, that's kind of how much they're investing at a pretty money. That's your valuation. And so I think that they're deciding it, and you think that in part you're seeing so many new people come into the technology arena and and they're competing one another and again, for them this all looks cheap because it's a lot cheaper than when a company goes public. And so, you know, I think that's part of the inflation you've seen. I think that makes sense to as just as you said, today seems to be a seems to be going good. Either be crazy. She's which is good, I guess. Folk, if you're to see you aff take great of your outer yeah, exactly. Keep moving on to you now. You joined the like, as you mentioned, in two thousand and seventeen and knew where the first man on the ground in the ANA...

...to build up the European organization. You know. Could you please share with us a bit more about the journey and scaling up a business, as well as expanding into new region, but also we success because clearly, guys, with the APO you've done last year, it's been a success, successful venture. It is. Yeah, it is. It is forward reasons. I think on top of what dimitally was saying, I think what we can add on talk on valuation is as a total addizable market and what what companies can, what piece of this total aissible market can take. So so, yes, so farns effect is a is a very, very larger success. So I started all activities in the UK. So when I enjoined the company was valuated like two hundred million. So it was. It was obviously way smaller than today and I started all the all the activities in the UK. It was the first choice to start. So first I was there. So I have a a beautiful Oxford excellent, but and French and it's terrible. But it's did very difficult to change your accellent. But it was the first choice to to start in the UK for clad maturity. The market was excellent and also, and maybe delete can can add on this, but for American companies it's still a very good place to start a business in the UK compared to other are other origins. So at the beginning we focused really on learning the market, the technology, the partner ecosystem, because when I started there was nothing. So when we started people were thinking we were selling ice cream because you have some nice snowflake ice cream shop in London. So the true story, and at the beginning I was I was starting to sing the good bed that Snowfla did is to hire somebody that can scale the business. I'm not necessary having one sales guy just to test, because we were accountings by the technology. So at the beginning my eye was mad lak on I ring and I took what I call a risk. Take cures employees and I was also looking at his take care of customers, because when you start so it's good, it's it's a very it was a very good technology, but you need to prove yourself and when you start a business in in Europe, one key factor for me was very important was the trust of the exacts in the US, because the trees in New York, but it's quarter of snow flakes in some Matteo in San Francisco. So when they wake up it's three PM for me. So I need to be all the team to be autonomous, quickly, so very quickly. When I started, I said to them we need to act like it's our own company and and acting like this help us to really having a sort of photonomy at the beginning and also the decisions. And I was followed by the by the exact on this, which was very good. So we started to do a lot of firing, as I was saying, a lot of pipeline generations. So to talk about do some some awareness and very quickly what the shop, the team is. We need to be we are Europeans, we are not we are working for American company, but in Europe people don't buy into American stories. So at the beginning some can, but you need local references. So I work here key. We were really a customer maniac to make sure that we'll have a lot of customers to to start and also really really to have the right references. And as soon as we have this, we had some some good successes in the UK. I was looking outside to see where we will go and we need a dive analysis on the market. So it's it's linked to through snow flake. But we went first to the nordics. So nordix is a very interesting region. So it's multiple countries, but they have similarities and they are very texts textile and they are able to take rest and also buy nature. We are cloud solutions. They won't have an infrastructure and and we went there. We were quite successful in Addis and after that we after at the end of your one, I Open Germany and friends, and now we are fifteen countries with a partner ecosystems that help us to operate in in twenty one countries. So I can give way more details, but it was a little bit the journey, the journey where it was very important to have this histare mindset at the beginning, because when you are probatly unknown on the market, you need to ask some people that can trust you. Okay, that makes senseiple thanks for that. Well, I think what a question coming up in the in the Q and at maybe we can address now, because I think there is a little bit of an interesting stories. We've got a Frenchman in London. That's too on the call today, guys. But you know, the question is that there is a seems to be a UK attraction for us thought up or even straightly start up in fact, to start their business from the UK. Does...

...any one of you, in particularity, but we have any comment about that experience? Reason why is just the language. You know, I feel it's not only the language. So so I'm trenched and my entry, but honestly I won't leave the UK and the bricks. It was not. Was Not something also top of my mind when you need to rise and I think it's a question of it's a difficult sublitional aspect. But right now what you are seeing is in the UK it's easy, probably more easy, to do business. Sometimes also the should look at the dishal agility of the market is extreme or goes extending first and we see the UK as a little US sometimes in term of decisions. In the US people are very plegmatic and and sometimes if you go in south Europe or in certain countries, the question with the question more what you what you are doing, and so you need to prove yourself in the UK. But there are fast and taking decisions. I think it's still something very affective. I know that some people are are thinking about I'm start sometimes and talk about funsor or Paris, the but the start topical system in forces is great, but it's still, and I hadd some discussions whose still and it's a shame too much, too much located to friends. I think the UK as this international exposure that help to still business for American companies, at least because I spend my life and doing that, working for American companies in Europe. Yeah, now agree from our experience what we see, and in fact we have had the conversation with a couple of companies were lighting up by Pios, I would say next six to twelve months were clients of of operaticts and we actually started them in Europe outside of the UK, simply because in the UK they would have some very, very strong competition, lots of vendor that already there. And you go to France, you go to Germany, you go to Italy. I think there is also a lot of cliche about this country. You know, you can't sell in France if you don't go for lunch with people. You can sell in Germany from you know, I don't believe that. I do go and don't give why? Yeah, yeah, that's that's that's not that's typical as just for and you got to do that. But you know, there is just cretion. I think actually going into markets where people are as much educated as probably in the UK about the issue but have less option, is should be a better but in terms of selling in them, of in term of growing. But Yeah, you g seems to be the place where everybody comes and the competition is relatively fierce. I think on this honesting also. But what I felt, because I eat any opens the fifteen different countries. So so I saw different level of maturity. If you get friends, it's it's a fatastic country to be with very large companies, but the time that it's going in a metro market you need to have big names and in the UK, see, I'm coming back to this story care I had this feeling. We had not this feeling, but we were able to find a restate your company, even large one, at the beginning. In all the countries sometimes it takes more time. You need to have a lot of local references before before being at in your right place in the mind. I agree. And there's also the elements establishing an entity outside if your core market, you know, which can be really expensive given the amount of investment that it takes pretty rely in France and you know some of these other countries where you know hiring is no small feet, especially for those for few to Goo. I give you a lot of credit for getting people on board because it does require a lot of commitment and investment forward and you have to have the legal resources and outside of the the UK and Ireland market. But I think the other thing is just having the resources for early stage companies to get technical support and also you know the amount of emphasis and you know countries like France and as you move your way down Europe, there's an increasing emphasis on hardware solutions versus software and staff, and that's another element that a lot of innovation is coming from, from cloud based and cloud for security are companies in general. I'm from security, so it just kind of rolls right off the time. But securities also obviously a big component of that. With you law and GDPR. Yeah, you know, in our particular case we since we had a privacy centers. Would we when we launched? Today, I would say we're probably more around kind of data management, but because of that we did actually go into Europe quite early. We...

...did also launch a UK. It's our largest European office and headquarters for us for international would yeah, it's you could you can hire more easily, you can fire more easily. It's easier to create an entity. I think it's a nice kind of in between. It's not as risk averse as the continent. Generally speaking, you don't need to have twenty referenceable customer first to win your first people are willing to take a little bit more wrest. Not as much as the US, but from the little bit. Yeah, I think it's a just a very convenient place water. I'm said that there's clearly business everywhere. Verdi starcher efect with people, friends, if people Germany, Switzerland, you're a place. And what about the shortage of talents? Speaking about the people and recruiting people. So we speak about the risk take and stuff like that. So probably remember starting operatics nine years ago. There's been and we still not, a Unicorn. Believe it or not, Dmitry, this is this is the call tiger. This is absolutely not fair. But I remember going to conferences. Could beat we made the a big data out security conferences as as the dimension. You know our saying in the musquely center maybels probably double in size. So there is more than a school those vendors. Of course not. Not only it's not a European problem, I think it's also in the US. How do you find the right resources when there is so much demon for killer tech people, killer marketing people, killer sells people? It's got to be very, very, very difficult to find the right people. Yeah, a lot of early stage companies rely on their VC's for that, in addition to specific, you know, talent agencies. We have a whole talent team that's dedicated specifically for that purpose. But it but you're ready to chat. Yeah, that we couldn't arget it as we've gotten a bit more mature and the wherewithal, and obviously this is where having a uniform kind of label is helpful. But frankly, going to your older, more stargy competitors, I think it's a great place to our group right. I think they have less positive kind of features or outcomes or possibilities and I think they're a great there. There are trained, they know your space. You can make the productive and in months, not nine months, and so I think for us across the board. They've already established beach ads and a lot of these places, and I think we proactively go and Chargett kind of older, slower competitors that were in that kind of the data security, data privacy jmats with space. Yeah, okay, yeah, next, perfect sense. So the mass. Moving on to you and from a marketing perspective a little bit more now. What is it like for a market ought to be bolt of a fast growing company. How do you manage the multiple strategy to brending? I guess you've got the part to play because you know, coming back to some of the things that we discuss, already know about how do you put a valuation on the company? I think if you make a lot of noise and people see you everywhere and you've been good PA and you active, that may end. So what's the journey from a market to all positive? I think I will follow arkly from what Tebow was saying and which is and how he started in Europe. I think the varieties that you're going to have. First is establishing. Need some awareness. What are you standing for and validated? I totally agree with t bows point about having customers the voice of the customers very powerful to validate you. That's where you how you go from ristakers to more conservative customers and really get your name out frequently, but always associated to value. And then the other varieties, of course, what I would call them and generation. But how do you contribute also to to revenue and how do you start really focusing on that value to get the right conversations going and get yourselves engine and get your also ecosystem of partners? That's how, I think, you can directly contribute to growth, and so those would be the two parieties, but I think it's also about how you connect those and how you connect marketing to the rest of of the of the company. I think the focus is critical. There are always many, many opportunities. The business is Nimble and small, so it could do a lot of things, but it's really on what are you going to choose in alignment with your self, steam or your partner team? What are you going to focus on? Customers? For us, being a cloud company, as did, was mentioning was it's our major differentiator and also it's no Freequ're doing that uprotection, which historically has been mostly market of hardware and software, but from the cloud in assass model. So how do we stay always focused in everything we do on that aspect? I think the other element is the clarity. You can't afford to to be a bit vague. So you need to clearly state the value and be consistent about how you talk about the value. Messages your vehicle to do so, and you always need to highlight your different being consistent on that aspect, I think is pretty good. That's what helps snowball the DM engine and awareness aspect. And then the third element is always have an eye...

...on on growth. We spoke a lot about being becoming a Unicorn, being a mounthstone. Fine, but what's the journey beyond it? I think our goal, all of us, is to build solid businesses, keep on delivering value and expanding how we can create this value. So this notion of skill in mind in a way, on a marketing side, who are you going to hire? They're going to be your foundation for the for the next year. How are you also scaling the way you engage with your customers, your partner, but also how you learn? I mean what's fascinating, especially about sales businesses is how everything is connected and we have a wealth of data so how do you vary early on on the marketing, but not only marketing, marketing and cells, etc. How do you keep on on learning and finding the the needle movers? There's never enough time and resources. So how do you really learn to identify, I didn't fight it, the good opportunities and just just move forward and keep on growing? Yeah, now that makes sense. So it's almost like it feels like a journey of free inventing yourself. Pretty much are the time looking, listening to customers, listening to what's opening in the market and kind of adapting your strategy to what's going on coming staying through to your principles. But I do think indeed it's it's a good thing to be opportunistic and you should be in a position where you can see the bettunity shut. All right, so question for all of you guys. Recently we we you look at from the what I guess, from the top of the mountain of being part of having been part of the Unicorn Journey. But let's talk about the challenges now you know. So I'd like to go around the table he and maybe we can start with you, teable, because you recruited a fir amount of people. You went into a different region and stuff like that, and you actually we had the podcast where we discuss about some of the challenges that you you came across. But yeah, you're not get US started on the challenges to the journey of becoming a Unicorn. Yeah, yeah, you know, it's it's real linked to just the conversation we just had. So one of one of the biggest challenges irony, and I ring the right people and iron fast. So, and it's very, very defound by country. So, as I said, so the ISTIC. Your mindset is not, you know, Aus meant said everywhere Germany. You need you need to pull yourself before iron a playoffs on the market. You can find on me more more this kind of commidates in audics in UK or these alons. I'm slam the spinal scale that we had at one point. I think we were iron keep personally week. So we became a machine to hire. Can it worked quite well. What we did is so it's very ticulous. I don't necessarily buy into irons that. I don't know at the beginning. After that, when you have the decent size, you can you can internalize this. At the beginning, it's almost impossible and we took like three head and tels that we split in different regions and each region they had they were unique on this market. So they they is cusiblity. So I always use what is rare is that continue. So if you if you are in slight, when you when you sell your house, if you are in one of the real estate agency, we want to see your house, even if it's a very nice one. So we two who have only one head ender of the origin and it worked quite quite well. Linked to the I ring one mistake I did and we started solient countries and of for one country, we didn't stop with a leader and somebody that could be a leader lookingly in this country. So we started to hire individuals and and we realize it was a mistake and it took us like six nine months to fix. So if you if you need to hire and rule in different countries, you need to have somebody that can be the future leaders, even if it's not somebody that is a manager straight away. Why? Because the team will need that and some countries in Europe have so many specificities that an e leader is is very important and litterally, to come back to what the meeting was saying. Don't necessarily agree on one point. So I think you are perfectly right thing on if you look at engineering, our precells ore or sometimes marketing and product marketing people, it's easier if it's coming from the market where we were spuggling is too higher. Very small seals sell the people and they are not what might also we did some mistakes and it's not necessarily a good idea of going after the LEGAS companies. So if you are disco keeps snow, shake at being was really was not the better club, but real cloud that are also replacing a legacy in solutions and on the legacy solutions sometimes like big DIGO, those of the market, and it's not necessary. Where you will find champion builders or...

...people that can wear where people can buy from them, because when, if not, if they were like this. So I'm not saying everybody's like that. Of course you are very good players. It's ideal situation of finding the good commugates in competition, but we realize that the best sells people. I'm talking about the cells, not the rest. The best set people are not necessary seeking with pure competition of companies that you are replacing when you are a market, market leader on this, because after that learning the market are on the cell side is not so complex and as soon as you have people coachable, they can learn and they can they can scale. But what if he was seeing on all the other functions? I agree that. Obviously the competition market is absolute clear, absolutely too. So I did some mistakes on these. I hire thinking again. We have some people they we don't book quickly, but I realize that that's all easy reach. The richruly needs and some people absolutely of absolutely Brillian. So you just challenge is I rene defin shop shop from your perspective, demetrue, because I guess it was your rule and being confounder, you probably have much more aspects such as, you know, product development, and we're that sort of great stuff. So I'm suspecting that that's got to be or so something that needs to be evolved of all time. You need to have more resources. You know have you face some challenges around that and we decent challenges and you know, I think you know what they want to kind of comment on is also I think it's important for people who are kind of looking at the whole kind of market space also understanding that there's kind of a downside. I think it does create certain inefficiency to the market right where. You know, historically, I think you look at the lot kind of like the first five years, the two thousand tens, everything was really more oriented because there's lots of money floating around. was more about sales efficiency, right, so you wanted to know exactly how much one dollar marketing would drive in terms of dollars of revenue. Publicly, can you know you got a salesperson? Probably can. They on ramp, and I think, well, that's still important. I think the over rotation on funding rounds and sizes has created more urgency around it, different type of priority where you want to increase your can you want to work process and and upsell, to increase your under tension and so forth. And I do you think that comes back to the engineering side, right, not just the talent, but you know, there's more incentive to build bigger, to go wider, for the process, for the upsell, and I think because of that, I did, he creates more demand, right, and I think in a lot of there's this kind of race for talent. And so you know, we're in Israel, but I think you know we started maybe there was like two, three UNICORNS. I think there's forty seven where we have our engineering, and so now you start going and scouring the native like you know where we're all the all the Jews made, all the offer of like you create bullet and every everywhere else, but you're competing against everybody else, and so I do think that engineering is become harder and I think the whole trend towards Unicorn is partly to blame because again, you're more rewarded for building bigger, for having more products, more modules, more upsell, Moor Procell, and that creates sortain in efficitions, be inefficiencies, but also creates a lot more competition. Yeah, that makes sense, Dumastry suns form that. Did any specific challenges that you see a putting over under the a game? No, I think you're on me a. Did he thank you. Yeah, the road idea is littered with great intentions and companies that didn't, you know, pay attention to what the challenges can be. I have a few. So building the company, not just a product. So investing in operation is a big one, because you're going to need good data later and workflows and processes at the exit. And I would also say, when you're looking at new markets, your timing to market has to be very calculated. So it's not just entering a market, you know, assessing the size of it, but also understanding your product market fit for each market and making sure that you have the corresponding collateral. So Tibo alluded to that, you know, which is just because you're popular in the US doesn't make you popular globally. You have to have a few global customers that will help seed that demand. You know, another markets, but how you go after those markets? You really have to do the exercise of understanding what the product market fit is in each of those specific like federal for example. You have to have specific elements in your in your product and your strategy to make sure that you have the way to address the market if it does exist. Another piece is pricing complexity and making sure that while you're pricing your product each of those markets, you also have enough asp to support a global supply chain. And then the last recommendation I would I would make is balancing between engineering and customer acquisition, because in the very early...

...stage is a strong emphasis on engineering, but you know, at some point you have to pivot and really put the you know the weight of the organization behind customer requisition, and that's I think we're Dmitri was going as well. Yeah, yeah, mad that makes sense. That makes sense and I think you operational aspect. He's probably are. It's probably important. Is With Anice, the first yet you mentioned, because you're right, if you are developing, growing, gaining customers and things like that, and I guess you studied as someone was developing Softwie, probably really good at it, with some great ideas, thinking about stuff like customers or service, customer supports, putting all those things in place before you get stretching on the you know, pressure from customers. Good to be it's good to be so Verete. You need to think of right. So it's about it's about planning it before it technically happened. Well, what'll happen if you don't is that you end up, as a larger organization, having to put man power to fill in a lot of the gaps. So you can't auto made a lot of the stuff fast enough. So you have to put in operations from the beginning and really invest in that area, because if not, then you just end up with a longer term or painful exercise. Yeah, yeah, thank you to day. That makes perfect sense to us. About to you the from a marketing perspective? Any specific challenges? Friction point that you came across? Your new does work to us? Yeah, thanks. The the biggest challenge on a marketing inside US also to propose a solution that was very far from the habits of the markets. I mean we're addressing a market that has four years about hardware software, but in a certain way, and we knew there was a market bid. We had pricing that was easy to consume, easy to understand, but it was really a change of behavior and what we did, but we had to do, is knowing that we were on the right side of history, coming from the cloud offering a SASS product. But we had to really push that difference forward and really prove the value easily showing the difference of experience, showing that in their context, how those potential customers can really create a created a lot of value, but with a partner racer system, with the customers themselves. It took efforts to really find you in that approach, which is a we know we're asking you to make an effort, but here's the value you can get and really pay our engagement with that, with that value. And when you do this right and we have weapons we can use o this could not like trials and PC's. You can do a very easily and tooken marketing and cells, but that's when you you start getting those first customers, then you can actually go through that cycle. But also, I mean, did you was talking about the the important sub operations. This, everything that I said can sound very costly. So this is why you need to also have a very strong operational background so that you really understand more about your audience and about how your organization behaves. That's where you can find what really moves the needle. Yeah's to eliminate as much friction as possible right for the customer, because there's so much competition right now, especially in a SASS world where there's a product led growth kind of mindset, you know, with giving access to your product first and then going through sales and marketing. And that's actually we did a report recently where we were analyzing the market for startups and we ask a hundred DCS to vote basically on who who did they think were the you know, exciting startups and and number one last year it's not like which is no surprise. But this year, you know, at the top was Hashi Corp and we've got data breaks and they pier and a lot of these other, you know, upandcomers. I think the big idea might actually be on there as well. And so it's, you know, taking a look at at organizations from that manage point of how are you going to market and so not only are you able to address it, but then how more, how much more difficult are you to work with then your competition? And if the answer is very then you're going to end up feeling that in your in your revenue and your top line. That makes sense, and he's no racial top line to investments into sort of aspect that the company uses their rule of Saboy. It is like a specific for each organization you say did in time of what you would advise as a VC. So if there's a ratio there, yes, like, for example, would you say, look, you've good to read, Invest Fifty percent of your revenue for growth, you know, reinvesting the money. Or I guess there is reinvesting in there is also using investment, I'll be being made. But is there is there a specific investment that is required or ratio that you would look at to to advise any cu or co founder to to re invest in that growth. There there is a ratio, I'm sure. I don't have any numbers for you. I think it's somewhat dependent on what space you're in and also what you're what stage you're at, because you know when you're at an earlier stage you're going to spend the majority of your of your money on engineering and then, little by little, you're going to reinvest, you know, into growing the team and...

...then, you know, growing into the market space. So I don't have a specific ratio to me sure if you have any ideas on that. Yeah, so I think I think as as you pointed out, I think you kind of change the topic and kind of focus on or not changed to topic, but as you kind of grow out by kind of CD, you're you're much more interested in demand generation and building pipeline and converting pipeline and, you know, shortening the BOC's and increasing wind rates and all those type of things. Like I said, I need the One tabby at, though, is I do think that as more money kind of as these companies are will track more money engineering. Historically, I think of my prior to companies to start taking kind of a you know, as more I don't say maintenance. You still innovated, but it wasn't as as top priority is some of these kind of funnel at issues. I do think now, as people are trying to increase their increase their kind of a total addressable market, that you're seeing constant innovation. Right, there's more pressure. And remember you're competing as other startups that are also uniforms. Everyone's either you turn left, does a unit corning term right, there's a unicorn, and so in every pool horde, I think in a category, you get multiple UNICORNS and everyone is out there building. And so I you think there is more pressure now to build and innovate on a continuous passion and make sure that nobody can comfort below you, nobody can comfortable above you, nobody can come from the side of you and so forth. So I do think that that is something that I haven't seen my prior companies but I'm seeing now a little bit. Okay, yes, thanks, bad to retreat. So I was a question for you. Did if I was to invest my money, you know, is there from a VC P aspective. What are the most promising industries that that tree days are routine too as becoming the next round of unique columns. Yeah, I mean, if you look at, you know, the the report that we just published, there were a handful of elements in there that were trending to show what what is a strong investment right now. Those have a lot to do with collaboration and productivity solutions. It has a lot to do with data and data management, governance and then security. So those are the three sort of primary vectors that are that are feeling a lot of investment. But I think traditionally, when you look at infrastructure, you look at cloud native applications, you look at data and analytics and artificial intelligence, there's there's a lot of there's a lot of great solutions out there. The question really is about more about the team and the founders, you know, and making sure that you've got great people that have the experience, ideally and have done it before successfully. Good thanks, Bad D. that's question for you guys, and maybe we can file straight very quickly, but if you had one tip to share, the number one tip fall start to bludails, that becoming or aiming to become the next Unicom, which would be that tip. Gay. Anyone can go. What would be a te that you would suggest? So I look, I would say, and this is true, I think for many companies, and I think it's the it's the first kind of value from Amazon and it's the first value for US ours. It's a single word around care. I think the importance of customers right. At the end of the day, you're building software enough for yourself, although you may be a proxy for for the buyer, but alfully you're building it for somebody, whether it's a consumer, whether it's small business, whether it's a large enter prize. And I think throughout your kind of journey, whether it's in the initial stages or trying to define product market and you're kind of developing something, whether it's later when you're trying to kind of appeal and acquire these customers, or even further later when you're really trying to not only keep these customers the grow these customers, I think the importance of customers is paramounts right, treat them like kings and Queens and I think you know, a happy customer means a happy, happy, happy entrepreneur or life. Yeah, too much you vote. Yeah, I can, I can sw tints. I agree with what need to just say that on top of that. So probably not to have too much in mind. Okay, I want to become a Unicorn. So if you focus only on that at the beginnings or earlier, you will you will fail if it's your only objective. I will say what makes you so successful probably in the market, whatever the organization, and is accountability. So making sure that every people, every single service organization, they are all accountable for success and when everybody's working in the same direction, it's very important. So seeing I was always asking to the team was when you finish or shower or in the morning or at night, you need to look at yourself in the mirror and ask...

...why I continue to the success of this company or this region or this country and and the and be honest with yourself, because nobody is perfect and sometimes you have some high and low but if you know that you are you are contributing. It's exactly a something important and linked to accountability. When you when you start a business and you build from their all experience. Is is very important to lead by example. So leader most of the time respected if they fight on the field with their team, especially at the beginning. So you will be respected by your teams if you're able to help them and not anecy, say, judging them at the beginning of focusing on Kepi. So so many mistakes, because I'm doing a lot of advising a role and with also discussions with certain companies, and sometimes we say that we want to literally just use Kepis right away and and focus on me on that. But you need to prove yourself and you need to gain the trust before before doing that. They are absolutely key, but you need to use them at the at the right time. So being there, leaving by example, being on the field. You need to be ready for that. For people who are thinking about a startup experience, you need to be ready personally, because it's it's a very, very, very, very time consuming. It's the best experience, but it's also extremely, extremely difficult to do so. But if you have this mindset of accountability and leadership, leadership by example, it's it's morelful, I think. On my end, I would say be and remain opportunistic. I know this words may have the negative connictations in in a wage or others, but I do think it's important stick through to your principles, your values and, as Dmitri said, to your customers that you'll be you should be in a position to see his market or technology opportunities in anable way, and that's going to have that can have great impact. I mean an example of drew. Twenty twelve basically are founders. We wrote the company adds really embracing the cloud, and that defind what the company is today. An need becoming a unique corn and whatnot. So for a very long time we were the only company like this. People were saying, well, that's hard, doesn't sound like it may work, but that's what after an even like like covid and a pandemic. Now every business is going to the cloud looking to reduce costs. So I think this this if your putunistic, you hope, you have this mindset and you're ready to if you see value, you're ready to tease those you'll keep on creating about you. Yeah, that makes sense there. Remaining optimistic is is an important to any but if you're not training a company, it is a uniquem to be. Sometimes, when you are running a like self for people business, you've got to you're good to keep going as good. Did you anything to adds? Yeah, in addition to hiring relentlessly optimistic people, I would also ask yourselves as a founder, who do you want to be when you grow up, and then determine what's the right business model and the right rats to market, because nailing those two things are absolutely critical, and sometimes you have to try more than one and see where the market is, because it's one thing to know who your customer is and to have a solution for them, it's another to figure out how to get to them, and that's where, you know, I think a lot of mistakes remain, is trying to always go direct or to try to go to large enner prize instead of really understanding that you're a better mid market play and so you can build out the feature set or, you know, picking a the wrong type of channel or not including distribution. I mean, those are all really important elements that you have to establish early on, and that's part of that product market fit is determining the right the right route to market. Suh Okay, yeah, it startsing muse the end in mind. I'm reading a book about that actually at the moment. The seven that bits of ideaffectives people. So really running about that little bit more so. Guys, we're gonna Turne to do question in the huts. Let me open up the check to see what we've got in there. I'm going to stop from the bottom to the the I view observed that becoming a Unicon is appropriating the true God off a start, that is, to create new value that meaningfully change our customers life. Apologies for physical, for physical for fields of the gold question. I think, Dmitri, you can a touch that at the very beginning when I was asking you what's ex when you get to a uniquem look, I think so. I don't know about was change. I think it's much changing a customer life. Things about right, providing value to a customer. If you change the life in the process, that's to effect. But I...

...don't think anybody, you know, we're not. We're not forget what that pill that they take, that book that then we seees to the series are. But yeah, I think you the day of trying to cree value for a customer right, and that could be cost reduction. It could basically maybe provide some type of compliance. Second, help them manage things that are manageable, like your data, and I think that's the priority right creating value, and I think you'll know it when you have it, because they will want to pay you money. Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. Another question, maybe one for you Toobo, because you were using your termin energy are. How do you identify risk taking, sense wraps and risk taking customers? Yeah, it's a good it's a good questions. restake yourselves right, so to the first question is depending on what people want to do. So, for example, if you it's a little bit like when you do restaking, when you buy private wikis or shares in the market. So depending on your potence to the risk. You have to those people that they know that if they arrive early, they win the wind video. They have a video risk of fitting, but they can win video and and you have it's just going through interviews. You can ask some specific questions and some people they want and you need to respect that. They want to continue their lives. They are not putting their life at risk. I can I can speak about my own experience. It was very fun. When you start from the all scutures not see me and you come from very large companies before. Your way of healing is changing drastically. So you need to be prepared for that and some people are prepared for that and in the market because they know that if they do the right risk in their career, they will they will do that. For customers it's more you will find an and it was easier on the UK. As I said, it's also the case in a leagues where you have some people that want to show that they were the first one to use the technology. They are they are innovative. So at the beginning we were focusing only on technology, technology companies, and one company will go IPO very quickly, one of the Super Larger IPO in the UK very soon, and it was one of our largest customer at the beginning. So they are delivering food. So if you know this de and and and for them they are extremely, extremely they are focused on innovation, they are super pragmatic and they don't they are not necessary attached to legacy because they were born in the cloud. So we were we focused on people that were understanding US and they decide. They were very pragmatic, they testing, they are they were tough, but we were doing the right things and after this they took the to the risk. So it's not. It's not a secret recipe, but it's more when you have your technology you need to see where the fit will go first for people you will hire and customers. Thank you and I think would probably getting to two a to the DL Mack now. So I'm sure everybody's good to some of those most o business to attend, which is very unfortunate, but I want you to sign you, guys. So all the penalties, fossil or for coming on today and sharing your sorts and insights, it's worth pretty good. So thank you very much for sharing a everything that you shall with you today and for the rest of the people and the attendees, thank yours for training in and listening to US guys. Will make sure that we share the the recording appropriate, least through the the usual medium, the social medium. But yeah, thank you again everyone for coming to then participating to the discussion here. For us, rights fun. Thank them. Thank you. operatics has redefined the meaning of revenue generation for technology companies worldwide. While the traditional concepts of building and managing inside sales teams inhouse has existed for many years, companies are struggling with a lack of focus, agility and scale required in today's fast and complex world of enterprise technology sales. See How operatics can help your company accelerate pipeline at operatics dotnet. You've been listening to be tob revenue acceleration. To ensure that you never miss an episode, subscribe to the show in your favorite podcast player. Thank you so much for listening. Until next time,.

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