B2B Revenue Acceleration
B2B Revenue Acceleration

Episode · 3 months ago

112: Building a Community: Know Your Purpose w/ Sam Jacobs

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Don’t build a community because you just want to be in charge of something or have a captive audience to sell to.

Build a community because you genuinely want to help others without asking anything in return. Over the years, this will bring so much good into your personal and professional life.

In this episode, we interview Sam Jacobs , Founder and CEO at Pavilion , about how he grew a small group of New Yorkers into a community of over 6,000 global leaders.

We discussed the evolution from Dinner Club to Revenue Collective to Pavilion, having long-term goals in a short-term environment, some of Pavilion’s successful initiatives, the launch of Pavilion University, and supporting each other as a way of doing business.

To hear this interview and many more like it, subscribe to The B2B Revenue Acceleration Podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or our website.

Our goal is to teach us manydifferent people as possible that helping other people, being supportive, being kind and compassionateis a good way to do business and as a way to succeed.You were listening to be to be revenue acceleration, a podcast dedicated helping softwareexecutive stay on the cutting edge of sales and marketing in their industry. Let'sget into the show. Hi, welcome to be to be revenue acceleration.My name is alien, with you and I'm here today with some Jacobs Fundand see you at Pavilion. Former revenue connective. How you doing today?Some I'm doing very well. How are you all really? And I'm good, very very good, very very good. So today we want to speak aboutbuilding community and I think most of the people will be listening to thepizza today. I've held off revenue collective, unless they are, like you know, iiding somewhere, going going off the great fall a while. Firstquestion for you and in first so what I'd like to get a little bitof an introduction. You know, Y'all set up for you come from thestart off for revenue collective, but it will also be very good to undoson why you change them from room and you connective to pavilion if yould mentorChic and on that as well. Sure. So, yeah, nice to meetyou and everybody that's watching or listening. My name is Sam Jacobs. I'mthe founder and CEEO pavilion. We used to be called revenue collective.My personal background, I've been working at venture capital backed high growth companies andstartups since two thousand and three. Before that I was in finance and Iactually ran a record label and was in the music industry for a little while, but that was not successful. And really since two thousand and three whenI moved to New York for the second time, I've been kind of buildingcompanies from the from the revenue side. I worked at one very successful companyfor seven and a half years called Gerson lemmo group through two thousand and tenand then from two thousand and ten to two thousand and eighteen, it wasshorter and shorter stints at subsequent companies. Worked at a company called axial forfour and a half years. I then ran sales for a company called livestream, which was sold to Vimeo, which just went public, for andI work there for eighteen months. I then was the chief revene officer ofa company called the mews for nine months and then I was the chief reveneofficer for a company called behave oks for ten months. So my stints wereshrinking and the most of the time not because I was choosing to leave,but because I was being asked to leave or the companies weren't succeeding, andI needed a community, I needed help, and so I started bringing people togetherin New York just to share stories, to make the sales leaders in themarketing leaders the center of the ecosystem, because in every other place the founderswere the center or the investors were the center. But I wanted tocreate a community that was really just for operating professionals, and so we calledit the New York revenue collective and I didn't have any grand aspirations. Ididn't really think much of it because starting a dinner club, which is whatwe were starting, a dinner club with...

...an email group, is about theeasiest thing in the world to do, and so I figured every city mustalready have something like our revenue collective and I would just focus on being thecommunity for New York. And it turned out that every city did not havesomething like revenue collective, or if it did, it they had been structuredin different ways, ways that I didn't think we're optimal. And so peoplefrom all over the world really began to hear about what we were doing andreaching out to me. The first person that reached out to me was aguy named Tom Glasson in London and he started he ended up starting the Londonchapter of revenue collective, and then we quickly launched a variety of new cities, Boston, Toronto and more. And still at the time I only beganworking on at full time at the end of two thousand and eighteen and Ireally at that point I said, you know, if we can get totwozo people by the end of two thousand and twenty, then we will beyou know that I can live right, I can pay my rent, Ican be alive. It doesn't have to be, you know, the biggestcompany in the world, but it can help me, you know, notget fired again because I was working for myself and it just it just somethingthat became very, very popular, particularly during Covid when people needed community andthey needed resources and they needed assistance and help and they were facing more uncertaintythan ever before, and so we ended up moving well past two tho bythe end of two thousand and twenty we were close to three thousand seven hundredtotal members, all paying members, and so that was that. And thenyou asked why did we change the name, and this is a bit you know, so sorry for being longlanded, but the there's a couple things thatthe big idea behind what we're doing is not is not really about anyone professionanymore. Right, we started focusing on salespeople, but, as we mentionedoffline Arelian, we have a CEO community now. Yeah, was left out, and know or my any community. The purpose of what we're doing,the purpose of why do we exist, and this is, I think,important and different, because a lot of people start communities either for their ownsake, meaning like just networking, which is not why we exist, orto sell, to sell software. Right, you start a community, you're atlast end you have a community, you want to sell more, atlast see into that community. But our community exists for a different reason,and that reason is to help each member fulfill their career goals. We callit unlocking and achieving their professional potential. And it's bound together by a codeof conduct that says that we're going to help each other, we're going tosupport each other, we're not going to spam each other, we're not goingto use the community to sell things to each other. Directly, we cansell things to each other by being helpful to each other, but generally speaking, this is going to be a world where we believe that helping other peopleis a path to personal success. And that's a very specific belief that isnot shared by everybody in the world.

And so that belief is not aboutsalespeople, it's not about marketing people. That belief is that there's a differentway to do business. By helping and supporting each other, we can allbe successful. The world is not zero sum and that vision is not specificto salespeople. It's really true of any kind of profession and our goal isto teach as many different people as possible that helping other people, being supportive, being kind and compassionate, is a good way to do business and isa way to succeed. And that's the reason. Fundamentally, there are otherreasons that. The tactical reason is that everything. There are two million thingsthat are called blank collective, and so there's not a lot of defensibility aroundthat framing. But also the word collective is a little bit inward looking,it's a little bit defensive. It it implies and US versus them. Pavilionis not about US versus them. As I said, CEO's can join,investors can join, anybody can join. It's about helping you as a humanbeing get where you want to go in your career. And so it just, frankly, it's a bigger, more open, more inspiring, I think, idea and brand then revenue collective, and so that's why we changed it. Yeah, so thank you for as but I love this story. Reallyread love this story. I think it's some quite interesting. It j actuallystunt you from something wrensi reinform or something that you felt was was required,and you start it's more than you know, at the presumption that you would bedone any swhere and then realize it was not done. A nice gettingthat thing. That's growing and it's very successful. And I'm second thing,I'm very glad that you opened up for CEOS. I did say nothing tomake Tim but I was extremely jealous because everybody speaks about your new collective.I was invited to one of your events in in London on Tuesday. Infact, I could not participate, but there was. I was really Iwas really feeling left out. So I'm glad that you know CEOS cannot participateand I'll get I'll get some details from you and see how I can getmy self you start. Last thing really you mentioned something. You mentioned Covid, you know, and you mentioned that you you saw that you really wentbig in Covid, and I think this is really interesting because we did feelthat covid kind of the mindset of people changed. Lots of things drop.People are to find solution. People did not know what to do and ina way, from a business perspective, from a capitalistic business perspective, peoplealmost become a little bit kinder with each other. Do you think you wouldhave seen the growth you've seen without the ponderic? Is Basically my question.I guess I don't know. I don't know the answer. I we were, you know, March, we were growing very quickly, that's for sure. Before covid. The thing that was helpful, you know, and obviouslyyou're always very you know, you want to be cautious and mindful about howyou frame growth during the pandemic because there was so much tragedy and so much, so much pain and suffering. However, as you said, from a capitalisticbusiness perspective, you know, we...

...were. What it really did,which was useful to our business, was it forced us to be obviously digitalfirst, like everybody before Covid, we were really much more focused on inperson events. And that's good if you're in London because we have, youknow, five hundred people in London and so there's always in person events togo to. But if you're in Minneapolis or if you're in Paris, orif you're in Bangalore or somewhere anywhere that's not a very big city. Oryou know, you live in, I don't know, Brighton or something likethat. You or Manchester. Right, you're not in London, but you'remaybe a couple hours from London, then you really weren't getting any kind ofmeaningful experience from revenue collective. Now Pavilion, the slack community is global, butwe want to be more than just slack. The covid forced us tolike you know, we were doing about one webinar every two two weeks,maybe one a month before covid. Now we do forty, fifty, sometimessixty different digital events every single week. And you know, we were wedidn't have any kind of online learning programs. Now we have over twenty different coursesand schools. So Troue, Pavilion University all delivered online. So Ithink what it did was it actually forced us to build a different and,candidly better business, because the digital business is a higher margin, easy andit's easier to deliver a meaningful experience no matter where you live, whereas beforecovid you had to sort of be near one of our big hubs. Yeah, I don't know if we would not have. You know, I Ithink instead of thinking about it like would we have grown as quickly without Covid, I just think that I was very because I have friends that run otherkinds of similar businesses. There's a company in New York. I won't saytheir name, but they were a dinner like they were an events business.They would bring together like minded people, like salespeople, are CEOS on behalfof sponsors and they would post really nice dinners. They are very you know, there are a lot of similarities to their business as to ours. Theywent out of business in two thousand and twenty. They went from a couplemillion dollars in revenue to, I think, Fifteenzero in refinue total for the wholeyear, and I think it was just that we responded to it veryaggressively. You know, we were very decisive about saying, Hey, thisis an opportunity. If we think about it that way, we need torise to the moment. So yeah, now that makes perfect sense. Iknow. Was the thing that you mentioned in your en Troy's the he's kindof the Cud of conducts, you know, and I completely agree with he's youhaving ill. Many times you receive an email to a nice Dina somewhereor you know, we're going to do a way be now, these arethat like minded people get with your pias and stuff, but you know,at at the end of the day, what they want to do. Theywant to falls down, set speech down your strowensity or something. But atthe same time, you know, I think pretty much ninety pert of ofour customers are speaking about wanting to build...

...communities. So you know, froma value perspective, from from a setup perspective, what do you think Ido right? Value, if you want to build a successful community? Imean, could you have community what you actually sell to people and it's okay, or do you think you know, you've got to go for being agiving community or sharing community? But I don't want to. I wouldn't wantto join that that. I mean they're there, are those selling communities.I think there's a thing. I'll be, and I I don't know if youknow that, a reliant, but then yes, it's, you know, you show up every morning or whatever, you meet once a week and everybodyshares leads. It's not inspiring to me. I went once and I'mdefinitely never going to go back. I think. Yeah, I mean,I so, I guess. Do. I think that if you want tobe successful you have to do it? I don't know. I mean wedo. I do. I have a very particular point of view about why, why this works and so far, because it seems to continue to grow, I think that there's some merit to it. I think too many people. Again, the whole point of like everybody wants to build a community isagain sort of like represent seditive of to me. What is short term thinkingright? Because nobody. I don't want to just be in a community tobe sold to. I need help as a human being, right, Idon't. And I'm somewhat introverted, which is somewhat funny that I run aglobal I don't. I have lots of things to do with my time.You know, I'd like to read, I like to play guitar, liketo be with my wife and my dogs. I don't need to go out forno reason. Right, there needs to be a purpose and and soyou know, most people don't have a purpose. Besides, we want toget a bunch of people together and sell them things and and we are allaware of that. And so I think, I think there needs to be values, and there are a lot. You know, we've actually we've acquiredtwo communities and we've been in conversations with many, many more, and andthat's because, you know, when we could talk about that growth strategy.But but the reason that all of these conversations are very easy doesn't mean thatpeople all want to sell to us. They don't, but it's because weall come to come at it from a pretty similar perspective, which is thatthe point of what we're doing isn't just to sell things to each other,or at least it's not to shell things to each other immediately. Yes,you part of what we're trying to underscore is that. I you know,I talked about this so a lot. You know, I saw Larry Pageon stage one time with Saragey and he was saying, you know, youin this is paraphrasing and maybe he's not the first person that said it,but you know, it's you can accomplish far less than you think in aquarter and you can accomplish way more than you think in ten years. Andhis point is that sometimes your time horizon can be a competitive advantage. Ifyou just play a longer game when everybody else is playing a shorter game,you could do more things than might be expected. Yeah, I think that'sthe approach that we take to community. It's not that you can't sell peoplethings. You'll sell them things over a...

...year, and the way that you'llsell them something is by being helpful and by build trust incredibility, and thenwhen people trust you, they want to do business with you. It's notthat nobody wants to do business, it's that I just don't want to bebeat over the head big I tend one Webinar and all of a sudden I'mgetting fifty two emails from styrs, you know, with like messaging that's tenyears old. Yea. Now progect it, to be fair, is the veryright preason. You started the very much when you thought you year andtry to make money out of it. You just try to get what youwant now, your community member to get, which is this information, the connection, the relationship with people and being with late many people and sharing information, so that that that makes perfect sense. Also, so some what would yousay of if you can just just name a few, some successful initiatives? That's your team has drove to get PAV pavilion. What is today?Well, I think there's a couple things. And again the first is that isthe business model, again, sort of speaking again about short term versuslong term time for risings, it's very tempting for people to build, towant to build a free community, and I talked about this a lot.The thing that happens if you want a business and you want the community tobe free, then your members are going to be the product and you're goingto be selling them to sponsors or you're going to so one thing that we'vedone that's been very successful is simply asking people to pay. relatedly, not, and then no other business model. So we don't. Everybody will tellyou when you start a community you should start a headhunting business, an executivesearch business. So many people parlay their community into like a recruiting business.Well, you know, I work in Sass and recruiting revenue is transactional revenue. Is Not nearly as valuable as recurring revenue and it's a much simpler,cleaner model. To think about it almost like Amazon prime, where you paya fee and we try to deliver as much value as we can for thatfee and we don't have any other incentives. So I don't take kickbacks or referralfees. Everybody wants to do some kind of like, you know,strange commission deal. I don't want to be, you know, necessarily likethat kind of channel for anybody. All we do is we have a simplebusiness model. So that's one thing that I think. Again, it takeslonger. Sometimes you might be giving up a hundred thousand dollar executive search retainer, but over time you build a bigger community because people trust that your heartand your incentives are in the right place. And so you know, that's that'sone thing that we've done. The second thing, and we are notalone in this, but lots of lots of people have done it and it'sit's a beautiful thing, which is one of the biggest complaints people have whenthey join revenue collective. Now pavilion is it's so overwhelming, there's so muchcontent, there's so many people to meet, they're not sure where to start.So this year we launched Pavilion University and we launched with our first programwhich is cro school, which we launched in the spring of two thousand andtwenty one and it was hugely successful and since then we've launched again. Ithink the numbers up to twenty at this point. Right now we have runningenterprise, go to market school SDR Acceleration...

School, Frontline Manager School, ChiefMarketing Officers School, a chief customer officers school. So why is this helpfulor useful or what's interesting about it? So these learning programs are and we'renot the only people to do this, but I think it's an interesting insight. They're all live. They're not you're not watching a video. They're liveand they are, and this is important. They are cohort based so you takea lecture on a zoom, you know, you hear me or youtalk reliant for for, you know, ninety minutes and there's four hundred people, you know, on the zoom. But after that you're broken up intosmall groups that you meet with once a week and those groups are fifteen people. And what that does is two things. First is that it gives you anability to meet other people and digest the content and to have a conversationabout it. But, more importantly, it helps you build deeper relationships withinthe community through the context of the school. And so that's been we've now gotclose to three thousand. You know, we have sixty two hundred people totalin our community as of today. We have almost half of those peoplein some kind of learning program and we've received, you know, very,very positive feedback from this program. So I guess one thing that we've donesuccessful was just simply structured the business and design the business in the right way. And then the second is, you know, something that's that's been thisyear has been launching to bill in university. It's been very successful. Yeah,space wonderful and university. So, as you mentioned, what you aredoing in some of the interim of the process. You've got the courses andthen you've got to break group. What are the people actually doing in thosegroups? Are they working on common project while just sharing their learning from thecoast themselves? You know, how do you get them to actually participate tothe follow up session? Because, you know, what I love about thatis that we are trying at operatics, but we've got the content, butwe are trying to build what we could on operatics academy. It's an internaltool. We not even thinking about the external but, as you mentioned,lots of contents. There is lots of way to do what we do.It sells. It's lots of different techniques and we want to we see anyboldour gays as much as possible. But what we find out, one ofthe issue at we face when we do the training is that people come tothe first leg chair. You know, they listen to it, but itis the consistence and it's almost like when you train for, I don't know, being a bit better golfer or better runner, it's the repetition, isthe actual training that that makes makes you successful. So I'm very interesting toldus on the because that's very deferent or so the needs to the group thatrob redding. So when you get them to doing the squiton groups, I'lldo you get them between interact and so we left to apply, even thoughfor most of the schools there's a few and next year we will charge formore of them because you know, it's very the market. Talk about thisfor a long time. But the first is that you apply and when youfill out the application, even though there's no cost, we say you haveto, you have to attend these study group sessions. We take attendance forthe Study Group sessions. We actually take...

...attendance. You will not get acertificate of completion unless you have at least ninety percent attendance in your cohort groups. So we sort of make it very, very clear that if you want,because there that's part of this is essentially gamification, right. There's yeah, there's a badge that you get at the end which is your certificate thatsays congratulations, you've completed Cerro School. You can put that on your linkedin profile, you can put that places, you can tell people about it,but you're only going to get that badge if you attend. So that'spart of it. Part of it is just making sure that we give cohortleaders. So we both select and train people on how to lead the sessionand we make it very clear that your attendance and participation is expected. Thatsaid, there are of course, because it's so dependent on the group.You know, some people have it. It doesn't work perfectly. I suppose. Some people have amazing experiences, some people don't, but for us it'sanybody that's having any kind of amazing experience is more amazing experiences than, ofcourse, if they've never had the class or they've never been in the group. There's enough people that have amazing experiences that makes it a very powerful essentially, you know, net promoter score tool for us, or you know,it's a customer advocacy tools. So part of the answer is we give themthings to talk about, part of the answer is we train the leaders onhow to run the session and part of the answer is we just you know, it's the care in the stick. We make it so that you can'tget the badge if you don't go to the study group session. Yeah,not that, pikes, that makes a lot of sense. I like it. Now now coming back to a kind of thinking that now you are massedtop building community. I mean you must have long quite a lot you guyshave been successful. I'm sorry, is because you are relevant. I'm sorry, is because you always been trying to do things at all. It willbe different. You mentioned doing a couple of acquisition of community to accelerate stuff. But if you were to speak to a young girl self, of yourself, let's say five, six, seven, ten years ago, all, someonewho's just at the beginning of that carry and so look, you know, I'd love to build the community. I'd love to build something. Ilove to have people to share them and someone who's got the same inspiration andvalues. You know, what would be the DOS and don't that you wouldgive them? would be the the main advice? That of trouble that youfoot into. It's a lot of what I've said already and again, alot of I don't I think it's simple. Some of the things I say Ijust don't think they're obvious or widely adopted. The thing I tell it'sfunny. I have a call later today right with a friend of mine whoruns a marketing agency and he says, you know, I need you tobe better at selling. What should I do? He wrote me an emailhow can I be a better seller, and I said, well, Idon't. I don't have an opinion on that specifically, but in general myadvice to almost everybody is the same, and the sounds. It sounds probablyperhaps in authentic or artificial, and I'm just telling you that it's not,which is that my advice to everybody is...

...play a longer game and look foropportunities to help people. If you want to start a community, there hasto be a reason the community exists beyond the fact that you want to bein charge of something and you want a community. Our reason is very clear. We are community exists not for its own sake. It exists because Katarina'sa member and if she wants to be a CEO one day, we wantto help her get there, and I wants to help operatics or any othercompany become the best possible company, we want to help her do that andthat's why we exit. It's not for community, it's because we have thereare human beings out there that are used to being treated like shit and wewant to treat people well. There's we were all you know, you andme and everybody, since you know the Internet's what roughly like twenty two yearsold, right, roughly. It's obviously been around since earlier than that,but, like, we've all been using it roughly since like the end ofsince ninety nine, basically. Now we've been trained on on how to interactwith each other and how things work in a specific way. That training isbuilt on the business model of the Internet, and the business model the Internet isadvertising. So the way that it works is that we use all thesethings for free and, as a consequence, we are our behavior, as weknow, is the product. And the point is that we are usedto like we're used to using linkedin. Right, if you had a jobinterview tomorrow and you wanted to get linked in to coach you on how toprepare for that job interview, what number would you call? Well, thatquestion doesn't even make sense, right, it doesn't even that. It's aridiculous statement. There's nobody at linked in to call. The linkedin is notwe're not customers of Linkedin, we are users of Linkedin. So this isa long landed way of saying I am trying to teach people that there's adifferent way to behave and there's also a different expectation you can have as acustomer right that our company works in a very specific way, which is youpay us and we do things for you and, as a consequence, ourmembers are customers, they're not users. I don't call my members users.They're not users, their customers and I work for them. I work forKaterina, I work for all sixty two hundred people that are members of ourcommunity and all I want to do is help them succeed and grow. Somy incentives are aligned. And also what I'm trying to do is teach peoplethat you can have higher expectations for the companies that you pay money to,or attention to or your time to. You. So all that is tosay, the advice I've give anybody is, what are your values? My valuesare I want to help people that I care about in respect, I'mnot going to achieve their professional potential, which is really a way of sayingI my goal is to teach people that by helping other people you can bepersonally successful. So you know, if my if I'm giving advice to myyounger self or to anybody else, it's typically which is the advice I gaveto my friend that I'm having a call with later today. Hey, lookfor opportunities to help people. The more people you help, the more peoplethink of you as somebody that can help people, the more they come toyou with problems, and that sounds to me like a powerful person right.The more people you help, your view...

...to somebody with power that can helppeople, and all of a sudden more people are coming and more people aredoing things and all you have to do is start looking for opportunities to helpother people. So that's very long whend it, you know, way ofanswering the question, but the shortest answer to the question is look for opportunitiesto help other people without asking for anything in return, and just take yourtime and over the course of years, many, many good things will happento you. Yep, it's so true. He we I've seen that personny makesare so much something. Sometimes you just want to wait people and youdo it not because you expecting something in retail, but just because you actuallylike the subject matter of the question or the topic. They come to youbecause they want your opinion and that's that's got you know, this is notthe things you're like. Well, if someone comes and, as we mayOpe, I feel good about it. Right then you want to give itto them without the expecting anything in return. You know what you end up doingand you say is a pretty special person. I think that sort ofgood to person is value. The day there is something, they won't eventhink about talking to your competition. They won't even think about, you know, doing an RFP or whatever. Then just know that you are there,you've been helping, you've been good, the advice were free and they werewalking when they tried or whatever. So it does. It does actually makea lot of SIDS. I think you are completely right about the short term, long term, and and so was the the lecture. You you arefrom, Larry. It's it's so difficult to be in the long term sometimespotty, and I'm sure that part of your community you've got thousands of peoplewho are like in the tech business, text start up, etc. Etc. You know, literally our future is next quarter. Even if for nota public company, we act like public companies and we need to sell,sell, selling. He's got to be not on the thirty first. Ifit happens on the first and not on the thirty first is not good enough. It's got to open one day be for twenty four. What does thatchange? You know, when week? What does that change? But youknow, I guess we are evolving in that world and but as professionally agreewith you, I think we need to go over or that and think aboutthe longer term, the longer game and planning advent. So my last questionfor you really, Sam, is what do you have in struck, youknow, for the future? What's the plan for the Sichhari? What youcan share with us? Obviously I don't know show competitors will be listening,but do you have any exciting style that you are preparing for us? Wellagain. So, yeah, thank you for everything that you said. earlienand New Right. It is I have. I've been that CRO person. Thedeal has to come in today versus tomorrow, and the beautiful thing aboutthis message is that I am building this company with these principles and we areand it is going very well. So that the beautiful thing is there's completeharmony, which is that, for example, my head of sales, who's responsiblefor signing up new people, she is not paid on commission at all. You know, most of the time of CRO is paid like fifty percentbase salary fifty percent commission against the revenue target. My entire executive team ispaid the same way and it's we're paid on NPS or paid on that promoterscore. We're not paid on revenue, and I you know, maybe oneday we'll move to be paying on different metrics, but this year to getyour bonus we have to have an NPS...

...score on a trailing ninety day basisgreater than fifty and then we have to be at seven thousand members. Sothat's like a revenue proxy. But Anyway, my point is that I think evenin the venture capital startup world we are contorted and sometimes the best wayto build the business is not to focus on pulling a deal today versus tomorrow. It's focusing on how do You de Light your customers. So at anyway. Also, you know, my competitors could be listening or not. Idon't you know, we do everything pretty much out in the open. Youstill have to execute it and you still have to shore my values and ifyou don't believe what I believe, then you're not going to do as goodjob of it. And so, anyway, what does in store for us inthe future? Well, as I mentioned, we are long. SoPavilion University will become bigger and bigger and bigger and we're going to have schoolsand graduate programs essentially for every functional area. So right now we have cro school, Cmo School, CECO school. Next year we'll have CFO school,probably have CEO School, and that's because we want to build communities in newfunctional areas. So right now I'm focused on CEOS and finance professionals. Nextyear, hopefully we'll get the finance community in the CEO Community, two reallygood places, and we can think about, you know, hr or people operations. We can think about product and engineering and maybe even some other functionalareas. So new communities relatedly with new schools associated. That's a big partof what we're doing. We're about to launch our platform. You know,we don't. The funny thing about the company, which is, you know, been valued at, you know, a hundred million dollars, is thatwe don't have any of our own software yet. You know, it's onslack and zoom and Google Docs and Google sheets. But beginning on next weekactually, we're going to start pushing out our own platform into our into asmall group of users to test and to give us feedback. I think it'sgoing to be fine. I don't think it'll be great, but I thinkover time it'll be great over next year and that platform will have a bunchof cool ideas. We want to really focus on gamification. We are it'snot going to be a feed driven platform. It's not going to look like linkedin or facebook, because our business model again doesn't I don't need audienceengagement. What I need is people to feel like they know what to do. So it'll actually look a lot more like quick books, which is like, what do you want to do today? You want to run a report,you want to enter information. So you log in and we'll be goaloriented, outcome oriented. And then, finally, the last thing I willsay is that, you know, we talked about helping people and helping peoplefigure out, you know, their career, and I teach a class on framingyour career. I ask the question how many people have a five yearplan? And of course, the answers you know, virtually none. Right, like five percent. Most people don't have a plan or point of viewon where they're going in their career. And so we want to actually buildsoftware that helps people first assess themselves and figure out what are their aptitudes,what are their strengths and weaknesses, in a more systematic way, and thenbuild tools to help people figure out how they can map their career both visuallyand then, you know, analytically. So I you know, you cancall that career Mapper, you could call...

...that, but it's skills assessment tools, it's career mapping and visualization tools, all underpinned by once you figure outwhere you want to go, will have learning and education that will help youget there and train you to get there. Once you're there, love it,love it, love it the last but if I'll all, Brootis,a kid did me. We putting the FELS building block together. I AIDSis killed Bays assessment for the deffrench roar. You know, if you want tobecome a manager, all what we what a the attributes you need toset trikes a transways music to my heirs, sons like well, doing the rightthings. Now, if anyone wants to join, by VIDEON, well, I wo do we, I'll do we get our lovely audience to join. I've got to fill few a stuff. You See, if woos and D'sas what in my network so I'll get them. I'll get them tojoin when the time he's right. But how do we find you guys?I'm sure it's pretty straight fall out, but just you know, can youjust yes, yeah, there's two programs. There's an individual program and that's youjust go to join Pavilioncom and you click apply now, and there's threelevels. If you're an executive meeting, you've the GVP, there's executive.If you're director above, there's associate. If you're new to the work course, there's analysts. So we've got a we've got a a level for you, regardless of where you are in your career. And also we have acorporate membership, which we call pavilion for teams. So if you want tosign up not just yourself, but you want all of your SDRs to takeSDR acceleration school or sales school, then we have it's not and you getyou get additional benefits and services as a corporate member. So you can joinas a company and enroll many people at once or you can join just yourselfby going to join pavilioncom on the foot. Well, thank you so much foryou in sight. Today's I mean was a lovely conversation say, andthat's to rigual to have you on this sho today. So thank you forhaving me and thanks to you and to Catarina from making it happen and andcongrats on a great company and a great show. Thank you so much.You've been listening to be to be read a new acceleration. To ensure thatyou never miss an episode, subscribe to the show in your favorite podcast player. Thank you so much for listening. Until next time,.

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