B2B Revenue Acceleration
B2B Revenue Acceleration

Episode · 5 months ago

108: How to Deliver the Experience Your Buyer Wants w/ Josh O’Brien

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Buyer experience and customer experience aren’t the same. There’s a lot of overlap, but buyer experience comes down to the answer to this question: How does the buyer want to buy?

In this episode, I interview Josh O’Brien, Cofounder at RevShoppe, about best practices for creating a consistent buyer experience across the funnel.

Josh and I discuss how buyer experience relates to channel, brand, and persona, how to create a sensitive and personalized buyer experience, the importance of the psychological profile, and technologies that contribute to best buyer experience practice.

To hear this interview and many more like it, subscribe to The B2B Revenue Acceleration Podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or our website.

Listening on a desktop & can’t see the links? Just search for B2B Revenue Acceleration in your favorite podcast player.

And me into us a rap shop, or thinking about the buyer experiences. How do we meet the buyer wherethey are? How do we engage with them on the channels that they wantand, more importantly, how do they want to interact with your brand?You were listening to be to be revenue acceleration, a podcast dedicated to helpingsoftware executive stay on the cutting edge of sales and marketing in their industry.Let's get into the show. Hi, welcome to be to be a revennew acceleration. My name is already in with you and I'm here today withJosh or, Brian Confounder of reff shop. I A. You doing today,Josh? I'm doing great, man. Thanks for having me. How areyou? Absolute pleasure. A. I'm great. So is. It'skind of twenty eight degrees in the Ukn the moment, so I'm surrounded byfans. I can see that you've got for above you. I'd but saysit's nice and warm while we are so nothing to complain about. Today wewill be talking about bio experience. Are you delivering the experience shop by allwants to receive? That's that's good. You know, I've got way todo deave into that. But before we get into the conversation, can youtell me a little bit more about yourself, Josh, but also, most importantly, for your company, Ref Shop. So what was the basis for Cofunding a company and what what is it that you guys are doing rightnow? Sure, yeah, so I'm one of the CO founders here andwhat rep shop does is we help enterprise companies scale on sales engagement platform,specifically outreach and sales offt and that's around operations, messaging, enablement and reallybuilding centers of excellence and operating models to scale organizations on those platforms. SoI've been to using funny enough, I was working next to sales loft whensales loft was probably five employees in Atlanta Tech village in Atlanta. So I'vebeen watching them for for a very, very long time and then I gothired as one of the first sales tires of a company called Data Oz,who eventually got bought by Zoom Info and we were one of outreaches Alpha customers. So been around those platforms for a long time, but a big fanand and really saw the potential of those things. And then when we gotbought by Zoom Info. My girlfriend and I sold all of our stuff,went and traveled off two thousand and eighteen, three hundred and thirty seven days outof the country, twenty six countries, and we're in some consulting and youknow, the kind of just evolved into what it is. And wesigned our first deal in July of two thousand and eighteen and a little airbeing be in Rome, Italy, and never look back since then. NoSong's wonder who why? That's a great story. Out of defense. NickTuia left everything in when traveling, went away to to open up. You'llrise and renew and and you know it's probably the best for you can do. From an explain spellst picctivity. You May as well do it now.You did. COVID does when, which is fantastic, great timing. Yeah, so right before, okay, and you never you think you test yourrelationship like living with a person, but try living with, you know,your girlfriend and spending twenty four hours a...

...day with them in, you know, foreign countries where you can't speak the language. So tested a lot ofa lot of my patients, tested a lot of our relationship and a lotof growth came out of it too, so I'm very thankful that we gotthe opportunity to do it. So you are still together, I think it'swore. Still together, and she's my business partner. So now we havebusiness together. To add one more complex relationship. Yes, that's another layoffcomplexity. What's what's next? Really? That's good. Well, was greatto it. So, Josh, before we did you to do the bigI just want to make a distinction between by your experience and customer experience inthe preparation of the Scipe is a quite frank and quite and this. Yeah, we'd associate them as exactly the same thing, but after speaking with youon Thostan, the impacting different stages of the same psychord. So would youwant to get just a couple of minutes to clarify that to audience and andexplain the difference from your prospective between by your experience and custom explains? Yeah, yeah, of course they know. You know. I think they theytend to be synonymous and there's a lot of overlap between the two. Butyou know, to me, unto us a rub shop or thinking about thebuyer experiences, how do we meet the buyer where they are? How dowe engage with them on the channels that they want and, more importantly,like how do they want to interact with your brand? How is your brandperceived by them? And we're thinking about that. You know, precess.So, for example, we have forms on our website. We come inbound, we have a channel communication preference. So some people like to be called, some people like to be emailed, some people like to be text andI want to make sure that they're accommodated to do that. And I thinka lot of companies don't think about things that way because we've had these historicalmarketing engines where it's just hey, you come in, you get a formautomatically sent to you by email and then hopefully someone reaches back out to you, versus the customer experience. You're already a customer by experience does play intothat if you're trying to, you know, upsell or cross cell or anything likethat. But I'm thinking about customer experience more post sales. You've alreadybooked the revenue and that's what I think delineates the two of those. Okay, I think that makes perfect sense. So let's focus on the on.The Bay on explains here. Funny enough. It was listening to to a fewput guests recently and looking to a few clients, it seems that thereis a I guess a fair few company, maybe not to a olthough, complexifyingthe sence process or dissertain cycles, but you know, they are tryingto put their reps onder aasing like some sort of cage where you've got toget a deco very call and then you need to do your demo and thenuse days and that and the try to form a teaching the way where it'slike pretty much sent fish from the sense Cycor despetive. That's the prospectus pecteven I guess we could almost said it, we could almost put it incense cvttowards the the experience of the Bio...

...so foo. What do you seea lot of companies putting in the trap? Yeah, yeah, I mean Ithink it's just a it's the nature of business, you know, andespecially in America with capitalism or I think a lot of companies are looking atpeople as numbers, you know, and a lot of sales reps are lookingat people at as numbers and not people. So I think it's easy to fallinto the trap of this is the process and we need to fit ourreps into this box and make something that's replicable and scalable. But to yourpoint about it being insensitive to the person who is going to buy or potentiallybuy your product. That tends to get thrown to the wayside because people arejust looking at how many activities can I hit and how many emails can Iget out to this person, how many times can I cold call and howdoes that equate to revenue, versus actually thinking about what the buyer is,who the buyer is, what their psychographic profile looks like, how they wantto be engaged, what their preferences are and things like that. So Ithink a lot of companies fall into that trap and I think I'm really lovingthe shift to the chief revenue officer position, to Revenu new office, really bringingmarketing and sales together. Yeah, because they've historically operated in these siloswhere marketing is saying I need to get these MPL's, I need to getthese marketing accepted leads, and sales is like, I need to get thesesales qualified, these I need to book this revenue, and they're comped ontwo completely different things. They have two completely different goals and there's no uniformityand there's no collaboration across those teams, especially in larger organizations. So that'sreally what repshop is helping to do. But it's beautiful to see this positioncome to light and seems move into a Croro position or VP of sales,move into a Seciet crro position and really oversee everything from a revenue perspective andmake sure that sales and marketing are super line, that the man programs frommarketing are coming down to sales and to sales development and everybody is speaking thesame language, being very thoughtful and being very intentional about how they deliver thatmessage and how they deliver their brand. Yeah, now I go, butyou realise, you and then do you? Have you seen some some example where? But then sheally that can of regeat Ruboutique Sensai chords of step bysteps and ten steps into process and you do these and then you do thatactually walks. I think it works in theory when you have the path andyou know what the next step is, that's a great thing. Yeah,but those steps need to be malleable. To your point about being robotic.Yes, the process is great, but we can't follow the process a hundredpercent every time. You have to be able to be agile, you haveto pivot, you have to think about again, going back to the buyerexperience, how are we going to engage this person? You know, Ithink it takes a lot of testing and...

...it takes a lot of things that, you know, people either don't have the band what to do, theydon't have the expertise to do, especially in outreaching sales, off the verynasing technology and it's just, you know, sometimes seen as this email automation platform, but there's a lot that goes behind it. You know, Ithink it people don't think about the how flexible these things need to be andhow to coach their reps to say this is when I go by the bookand this is when I can color outside the lines. Yeah, now youknow what I think. I think. I think if you are you verykumudatizes Commudi Tis, won't like Y'all stuff is is a Commodi ti people alreadyhave. When and you sitting in a low one or if you are ina very little value, you know what type of sense process of what youneed. A lot of Vility, T. I think giving something that quite rigidand trying to get UN dreads, rups, rep singing the same thingand at the same diamond in a tune, sen and stuff doesnt make sense becauseyou can really im measure and it doesn't really matter if she was adeal, but what else he was a customers. We know probably a goodeighteen ninety parts of our customers are relatively destructive. They have different by yourperson, name the journey, and you know, I think he's absolutely criticalto adapt to the Bay of person nine and put the person and put theclients, put the PROSPECTU, I say, in the center of the serves process. You know what do they want and how can you add them?Wells, you strain to push thing at them. Is trying to let themask you the question and pull which is kind of linking me to my nextquestion. Of course, everybodio is different and people like to be treated treatedin different ways and some of them wants to go and get all their educationdone online. Some MOSOL, would go to the network and we otherwise give, if they've got the said names, freetened the just by you straight away. Some as I would actually like to speak to USSELVES. Person I don'tknow, I'miliar left, but maybe a few. So. So my questionto you is how can companies and show that they did even the Buyo experience, that bio the Bayo actually want to receive? Yeah, so I thinkthere's a couple things. One. The first thing on the marketing side.You know, going back to my example earlier in the conversation, ask onyour farms. How do you want to be engaged? I think it tellsyou a lot about the person. It's going to tell your sales person alot about how that person wants to engage. I've run wholesale cycles just through testsand I've never send an email until the proposal or the style. AllRight, whereas others, you know, straight email, others I create slackchannel sport like. You just have to think about where these people want tolive and you have to talk to your customers about this, especially if you, you know, only have a few, a few personas, or even ifyou have a lot of personas. But you know, in the beginningyou have to start small and think about, I say, psychographic profile a lot. So thinking about the psychology of the demographic that you have. SoI always use the example of an it person or an engineer and network architector something like that. They're getting hundreds of emails a day from network monitoringplatforms, from crowd strike, from security,...

...from everything like good luck getting intotheir inbox right. So not only thinking about the experience that they want, because they don't want more emails. They're probably on ready, they're probablyreading blogs on medium, but how do we break through the noise and getto them on other channels? And if you're going to email, like emailoutside of business hours because they're burning midnight oil, they're probably coding, they'reprobably working the night shift doing the security monitoring stuff like. Stuff like that. We've had tons of success like emailing people at midnight and, you know, sometimes that pisses people off, but you know, I'd rather rot onthe Rod, on the edge than, you know, then color inside thelines in some cases. Yeah, I'd say that you really have to thinkabout the person, break down the personas breakdown the profile. How do theylive? What channels do they live on? What channels do they want to beengaged on? And then the next thing thinking about the hun you incorporatethat into a cadencer, into a sequence based on those channels and then youhave the test those thanks, you know, and you get a big enough samplesize, you take that data back, you analyze it and then you shift, first off at the wall, figure out what works and then keepmoving. I agree with you. So would you really see it's almost likeas a an algorithm. Of there is, you know, you speak to someone, you may have three option depending on how they want to receive theinformation or what the next step is. From the perspective ex a trust.It's actually asking the question. I like. I like the idea of feeling ofthe form. In fact, I was reading a post about about what, I won't mention them bits, some some games of the CIO of RedSplash company in the UK and it was complaining about receiving colds. And oneof the finite he men is to look, most people just come and we meet, pictures at me and they don't even know why I though. Theydon't know. They don't ask me how, how I want to get the information, and they could actually Scopa people to just ask me a few questionsat the beginning, to say look, you know, this is what Iwant to do, this is what I would like to convey what's the bestway to actually get the information. And in fact, you know, someof some of the finity was suggesting is potentially, you know, letting themspeak to someone else in that team but then keeping a line of contact withhim and then coming back. It's a tricky trust. So, you know, really having the flexibility of feeling that you wanted the prisoner of the senseprocess, but also not being faced to have a discovery code if you actuallywant to demo. So I think I've had a lot of prospect also speakingabout unnecessary TEPs in the process. H They well, before we do theDemo, we actually to to tell you about the solution because he's so complex. And when you say things like that you actually make the prospect feel likean Indsi like that, like an idiot, and and you know, it's quiteinteresting to look at it from the prospect perspective and see what does theear what they've got to say. We have a couple of customers also thatI've been scratching the back of their head...

...because obviously everybody wants to build thatrevenue generation engine. While you can say, Hey, I've got the sense Ipthat's increasing my valuation ors of great stuff and whether the couple of customerswe interestingly we'll bring some others with the prospect. So when people will getto the proof of concept or prior to get to the proof of concept.There's a look. You know, obviously we won't move forward together, butwe just wanted to do something about your experience. So be honest. Youknow, we candid about the things that you think we should include. Weshould emiliating the process and I think that's a great initiatives because I think whenyou do that sort of things, first of all you they shows a littlebit of humility, but also it probably put you in a position where ifwhatever the prospect is doing right now is not working, they probably remember youas the good person right and the probably leave a good taste in the mouse. It's it's interesting. But if if you want to do, let's say, you be dy'all all the Aeed Online, a sticking those sports, I wouldyou deal with it, Josh. What would you recommend for the forthe sales people, while listening today, and they'll probably a big prisoner ofthat stuff they've got down manager hitting then that they should do it that way. They may feel something that the prospect doesn't want it. So what youdid? I come from find on in for eleven years and I'm always thinkingabout things from the customers Lens. That's what I've really tried to do.And when you come to work you tend to leave your real personality at home. You're authentic self at home and you have to build trust in these relationshipsand you have to be authentic and you have to be yourself. And Ithink you know sometimes it's very difficult when you work for large organizations who youknow have these rigid processes and things. But you know, in general,usually when I get on a sales call, I ask Hey, why are wehere? What do you want to take away from this call? Andthen we go through that, we make sure that everything's addressed that they wantedto hear, and then we finish off and you say, how do youwant to buy? How do you normally buy? This is what I normallydo and this is what tends to work best. But you know your organizationbest, you know what you guys are trying to achieve. Tell me howyou want to buy and we can go down that direction. These are thepeople that we probably need to speak to and we can bring them in aroom. I'll let you navigate that and then like hands off from there,and I usually set up a slack channel for them. It gives me instantaccess. It builds that bond because now we're you know, if you're inslack, you're in slack with your company, with your colleague, with people youknow and trust. But now you're in a slack with me, withsomeone that you don't know, and it kind of mimics the same trust,that same relationship, and I've found that to be to be super helpful.Just create a new slap channel, put the company's logo on it, invitethem. Other people get involved, invite them too. I don't have todeal with email anymore. I have direct access to my prospects. We canhave normal conversations like we're texting, like...

...we're colleagues, and that really startsto build that trust and we get to move and accelerate a lot faster.But I run an enterprise sales cycle, you know, we sell to alot of fortune five hundred companies, so it tends it's going to be alittle bit different when you have high velocity sales or, you know, ahighly transactional product where you know you're just turning and burning. Yeah, nowthat that I completely agree with you. I compi agrees you just so andI wanted to come back, coward, to some va you mentioned only onso audion, you are speaking about the defront Saito's intense and marketing, marketingdoing game quas than the suns, gaysing sit trents to trust. So reallymy question to you is, do you have any best practice? is toshow on how to make sure that all those departments the line to provide thebest sticks? Because to the experience. So, sorry, the Best Baioexperience any stage of definity. Yeah, he just have to have open communicationlines with everybody involved. I mean typically our projects we're talking to marketing,to Demandgin, to marketing ops, to sales ops, to you know,rep ops, if they have it, sales people, s drs, itlegal and compliance, all these people who don't have visibility on, you know, in my case, outreacher, sales offt and you know, other thingslike videard and send Oso and lead data and all these things. If you'rein marketing like we're living in Elocile, you're living in Marquetto you don't reallynecessarily know or maybe even care about outreach because it doesn't matter to your toyour quota, your performance. But it really helps to bring everybody together atleast once. I prefer weekly. But you know, we're all wearing twentyfive hats and maybe we don't have the top. But you need to getvisibility to people on what's happening and put it in a centralized place. Ifyou have a bi tool and that's your source of truth for analytics, putit there. If sales forces your source of truth and you want to builda dashboard so you can give everybody you know one click visibility. They login, they see everything. Great. Send that report out once a week. Keep everybody up to date. Let them know how many dormant contacts wehave in our sales engagement platform that might not be making it back to marketing. Opps needs to fix that. They need to fix the connection. Makesure they're getting back nurtured. Like you have to feed the people in yourorganization and in power them to do their jobs better and vice versa. Sothat's really a lot of what we focus on with the change management piece isbreaking down those saw those bringing everybody's the organization. What do you care about? How are you calmed? How do we make your life easier? Buildthat Venn Diagram? There's going to be outliers. Will get to them later, but, like, these are the core priority items that everybody cares about. So how do we streamline those technologies and that go to market strategy?Okay, so, so you do you believe that technology actually play an importantbottom to process? By I do. I think about this. As youknow, a lot of companies and it's not just sales engaging platforms at thesales force, it's Marquetto it's whatever the machine tends to run the man orwoman, and not the man or woman running the machine. And if youfall victim to that, it's very easy to get sucked into this universe whereyou're just, you know, mass blasting...

...a bunch of your prospects and you'renot thinking about this, you're just trying to hit your numbers. So yeah, I mean technology plays a huge part of that and we think about wrappingthe technology around what your sales process is. At the end of the day,we're all people, but we bought this technology to make us more productiveand help us with our job. So how do we take these technologies andmold them around what you guys do and help enable you to sell better andyou to deliver a better buyer experience? Yep, I agree. We're justright that we getting to up the end of the conversation. To me itwas terming saite food. So thank you so much for you in put today. If anyone wants to connect with you, and no more about trick shop andput the Gil you could end them's the best way to get the gays. Yeah, Rep shop on Linkedin. Rep SHOPCOM OUR EV shoppecom. I'malways open to chat. You can find me on Linkedin. Josha, BrianFolla travels on instagram. The OB Tries Tche Ob ie tr I see,so there's a rapper, ob trice. He was in d twelve. Mylast name is, Oh, Brian, so I just ran with that andsort all my friends call me and then's been my name since, I know, for seventeen years, probably now. DB Trice, I found you justyou, Brian. There it is. You can see a beautiful picture ofthe the Italian pat sure of you, but I'm not seeing the a I'verequested you. So now we will see for all social friends on that.You know if should never accept me, I remember that. Five take thepodcast down if I don't accept you. Yeah, that was good, though, so thanks for that, judge, Viki was it was useful. You'vebeen listening to BB Revenue Acceleration. To ensure that you never miss an episode, subscribe to the show in your favorite podcast player. Thank you so muchfor listening. Until next time,.

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