B2B Revenue Acceleration
B2B Revenue Acceleration

Episode · 1 month ago

111: Why People Hate Cold Calls w/ Jason Bay

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

SDRs talk about how hard it is to be rejected when cold calling — and it is.

But it’s also hard for the person on the other end of the phone to reject. Reps need to make the conversation about the person that they’re cold calling both to overcome call reluctance and to change cold calling’s bad reputation.

In this episode, we interview Jason Bay , Chief Prospecting Officer at Blissful Prospecting , about why people hate cold calls so much and what SDRs can do about it.

We discussed why starting a conversation is the whole point of cold calling, the success of permission-based openers, avoiding prospecting narcissism with customer-centricity, and what sales leaders (and SDRs) can do to combat call reluctance.

Check out this related episode: Episode 110 w/ Sam Nelson, “Ramping Up SDRs: The First 90 Days”

To hear this interview and many more like it, subscribe to The B2B Revenue Acceleration Podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or our website.

The whole point of making a cold callsending a cold email doing out and the whole point is to start conversationsand if we can focus more on getting the person to reply to an email or get themto talk to us. So we can get past the first thirty seconds of a cold call.There's less pressure on you as a rap. You are listening to be to be revenueacceleration, a podcast dedicated helping software executives stay on thecutting edge of sales and marketing in their industry. Let's get into theshell hi welcome to be to be a revenewacceleration. My name is Alan emote and am here today with Jason Bay chiefprospecting officer, a blissful prospecting. I was it going today,Jasin right, it's going good man. We were talking about beer before this, soyou got me like I'm ready for it. Dude it's a Friday for the people. Listeningto us is it's five P M for me in London. It's nine, a m from Jason, I believe onthe West Coast and yeah. We just we're just speaking about bills, because thisis what you've got to do on Friday. We walk five days solids to get a fewbears on Friday. I guess that that's this dublet right exactly Yeh. YouGrind all week to an get to that Friday and just shut it off. Hopefully, ifyou're listening to this, you get a chance to shut it off over the weekendand, as I was saying to you, Jason Actually, I came across you through afudge. I was listening and I think you did that last show with John Burrowsand I fake the first time I listen to your voice. I was atinae myself onholiday, relaxing on my son bed, listening to you and June picking somegreat stuff around cool coding and sens and videos and stuff, I think where wewere vingear be also next time we meet. We if differed to make sure it's issomewhere other is bees as omelike. So today we'll speak about a OAT. I knowyou absolutely love, which is cool call. Why do people at them? But before weget into the topic and get into the conversation, would you mind Jaantelling us a little bit more about yourself and the company you representplace food prospecting yeah, so the way that I got into sales was two thousandand eight. I was a freshman at. We call it college here. You guys call ituniversity and I was going to be a friends scientist. That's what I wantedto do is work in a lab, get into law enforcement, that sort of thing and Isort of got into sales accidentally like most people, do and I work for acompany where they teach university students how to run a house pinningbusiness and what I didn't know in that job is that when I started that I d begoing door to door, so my first sales experience was going door to door. Theaverage paint job was around three to five thousand dollar us, so it was adecent purchase, but I hired a bunch of my friends to go out and go like doorknocking for me right, and I learned a lot of really interesting things duringthat time. That I think, really applied to business to business as well, andone of them was. I thought that if I focused on the houses that neededpainting that I was going to have a lot of success in those neighborhoods ofeight or nine out of every ten houses had peeling pain on it. But what Ifound out is that, just because someone needs something doesn't mean that theywant it or can afford it. You know which I think is a really importantlesson and Bob, because we have so much more data right. We can research, acompany look at the people, and just because someone needs your product orservice doesn't mean that they want it or have budget for it. So we got to bea little more and we can get into that a little bit more. I guess intentionalabout how we target those companies. The other thing that I learned to thisis another really important lesson, especially for cold calling. Is thatwhen I would talk to people at the door and it a hey ray, you know nice to meetyou man, I'd love to like paint your house. You were pining a bunch ofhouses as summer. No one was interested in talking to me about that, but if,instead, I focused on the free estimate and the peeling paint that I noticed upon the face hit boards up there, people were a lot more receptive to talking tome when they didn't feel like. I was trying to sell them the very first timethat I meet them again. How does that relate to be to be well a lot of timeswhen we're cold, calling? What makes it really tough is if we start talkingabout our product or service, that's a sales conversation, and we have toseparate those two prospecting. The...

...whole point of making a cold call,sending a cold email doing out, and the whole point is to start conversationsand if we can focus more on getting the person to reply to an email or get themto talk to us. So we can get past the first thirty seconds of a cold call,there's less pressure on you as a rap, because you're just trying to get theother person to talk if they don't get into a conversation with you, they'renever going to take a meeting right. So I learned that, as as a you know,nineteen year old kid with braces ye selling house painting services and theway that I got into what we do it possible prospecting was in twothousand and thirteen. I left that company. I worked with him for a longtime as a sales manager, a VP sales and then expensive time, their marketingdepartment. I really wanted to help other companies figure out thisoutbound thing and formerly with blissful prospecting. We've been inbusiness since two thousand and seventeen working with professionalservices, companies and SASS companies helping them kind of remove the suckfrom outbound by doing it in a more customer centric way. That makes sensethat I love the fact that you started by doctor do selling this is what gotme started in this space. I mean I was technically over qualified to be vide.Ized yeah got an engineering degree and then I went to a business school, but Iwas sent to England to learn English by Your Company at I was working for inParis and then the units that I was working for Gods moved some of herplaces in the war. So I could not go back for that job, so I was kind offree and I was reading a lot of biography of super successful peoplelike ces and stuff like that, but then, and most of them said, look douteuse,telemarketing recruitment like if you start your care in that, enjoy it andare good at it. That's what made us! I see you that that makes some that makespeople, so I just so to myself. You know what I'm just going to do that forsix months like military service. I want to do it like a boot CMS, if I'mgood at a sin on Dagan the expence, but also walking in the UK and stuff likethat and ye I am now. I do appreciate what you are saying about souls to whonow getting into it you get into it without too much training, andparticularly when I started a young it much training. In fact, linging wasoral, even the sauce back. Then you had to go through the euro pages and stuff,but then you find no way and every single. Then you find something thatworks. It's like when you play go an you are not really good, you justremember the good shot and that's what makes you come back the next Innin withjust that there is a sort of rush every single time. You find a new strategy onyour tactic and the Doctor Do, I think, is great, but anyway, let's go to theconversation, but I love your background. So cocui is a bit of adirty town right. Nobody likes to speak about it, but I personally believe- andI think you know I was reading some of the reports from the Bridge Group- theywould bag that up and we know it is probably one of the most efficient wayto create piline must my fishin an email. Of course. The resorts of WOTARtechniques, like events and intent, marketing and your website and that'sof great stuff, but I would like to get your sorts on concurn- is an effectiveway to drive by plane. Yeah absolutely I mean the data speaks for itself. ILove Bridge Group and all the stuff that they do, but I think you got astep back and think about a couple of things in terms of so I call thisprospecting. Nursitis M right. You brought this up where we talk about ourproducts or service and that's really a symptom of the approach being aboutwhat we want from the prospect as sales people and when we approach it. Thatway, we don't think about what the experience is like on the receiving endof any call of an email, et cetera. So what we need to think about is whatexperience are we creating for the person on the receiving end of this? Soif we were thinking user experience, the same thing that a product teamwould think about when they create outreach or sales loft or HBO or in anApple Product, whatever they put themselves in the shoes of the peopleusing it. So if you put yourselves in the shoes of the prospect, what do weknow about People's communication preferences? will some people likeemail and people like fun? Some people like social, some people like to text-you don't know what that is for your buyer. So if you only rely on emailwhich that would work on me by the way I I'm not going to ever pick up a coldcall, I just don't. I don't have time...

...for it. My phone is on do not disturbmost of the day. I don't want that inbound kind of stuff, but you knowwhat a lot of people would much prefer a phone call they're like it's wayquicker for them. Has It we don't know what those preferences are. So that's.That's really. The big reason for the phone is you're hating people in achannel that they might prefer. The other thing, too, is, and what thatbridge group study found in a lot of other, very similar studies find. Isthat any prospect you talk to these days? Ask them how many cold calls thatthey get versus how many cold emails? And it's literally, the ratio, is likehundreds of cold emails to maybe a few half a dozen calls. People are not picking up the phoneright now because they see studies ray. Are They not studies? They seeinfluencers on Linkedin, post stuff, like cold callings, dead, sosalespeople all, maybe I shouldn't call people any more. Oh, you know they saidnot to call on Mondays or Fridays, because people are busy on Mondays andFridays. You know they're getting ready to drink, bears or whatever right sopeople don't call him Mondays and Fridays and you it's Friday right nowat nine o'clock in the morning, twelve P M eastern time, and I have studentsin our outbound squad that they make cold calls on Friday afternoons andthat's when they get most of their meetings, because no one's callingpeople, that's what you got to think about is: Let's look at what the datasays and that's. Let's also try to do what other reps are not doing. CASERE,not calling they're, not calling on Mondays and Fridays. They're, notcalling people first thing in the morning. Do the things that peoplearen't doing. I undregue love what you just said. As read myself, I've alwaysbeen before I kind of felt more responsibilities. When I had lessresponsibilities, I used to leave everything to the last minute, I'mgoing on a trick to belly for three weeks, I'm gonna pack, my bag,literally sorties, before the play. I just like that kind of don't care, I doit and Friday was my best prospective day. All my friends, in fact I was inthe UK, so people will go to the peat lunch time. They won't come back untiltwo or three and of course there are a few be also everybody does reporting inthe afternoon right and reporting to plans have good. Could you want to goenti when no one else is ending and also, I think the prospects probablydon't want to speak to you too much between, as you said during the day,because, let's say you've got your students. Quatit you've got to dealwith so from nine a m. You speaking to me right now, some one trying to callyou won't get you you are busy. You know your time between nine to twelveis busy your time between twelve to one one. Thirty is your lunch time, so youmade with a job desk or you may catch may still be meeting and every up enti direct the end of the day. Youshould be in meetings. If you are an EXAC right, exacts are not just waitingfor the foot to ring. Denot has people okay, so you've got to catch them whenthey are at the desk, but not with someone on a video conference orsomeone in front of them and that's early in the morning later in the day,it's Friday afternoon it could be Sunday. You know sending a few emailson Sunday evening, just catch trying to get a response from people, because youwon't call them on the Onontio keen I guess, but I think we've seen so manyyears dear, focusing the prospective time during those nous there was a booko the fanatical prospecting he was clicking about the garden. I was right.You've got to pick your garden. I was get prepared for them to repair yourleast prepay your stuff and go boom boom boom boom on during those gardenknows a hundred post agree with you and also on the medium. I think you areright, I'm a fool person, you send me an email, I don't fully want to read it,but if you call me- and it's may be because of my industry and what they do,I will always give you a chance. If it's a recruit occurring me and sayinghey, I want to do your crimen, I'm already equipped. So how do you thinkyou are different? Give me this for is on what you think. You are differentfrom what I already have in place. I'll tell me the strite doing properly, andyou know what most of the time is then giving up on me not make it ring up onan is they don't know what to say they don't know what to say, because they'venot sought about me before calling me. So that's why I would like to get you.Maybe with the next question. Do you think, because I think I think that'sone important thing you open a cool...

...demain or you kind of give time to acool call for relevance right. So how do you get the relevance quickly? Howdo you get to it in the best possible way? So then people can give. You is aresponsive bit of that time. Yes, there's a couple ways you can thinkabout this and I like to look at things in framework. So if we kind of stepback a little bit, let's talk about why it's important to be relevant in thefirst, the way, a chunk, the cold call together, as you have your intro,that's the first part of the call it's the first thirty seconds. The only goalof that is to get to the next part, which is the hook. The Hook could beone to five minutes along. This is where you get to ask. Maybe two orthree questions you get to figure out if it makes sense to do the next ageclose and get a meeting so and then intro. What you need to do is get theperson's attention and get them like leaning in, so that you can ask themquestions and get a conversation started. The hardest part with a coldcall is getting like momentum and momentum and the call dies when someonelike you asked a question and they don't know the answer to her. Theyweren't prepared to answer it or the person gives an objection that you wantto increase the momentum and the way that you do. That is by addingsomething relevant. There's a lot of different flavors of relevant, so Ithink we should talk about that. So I work with a company. I can't mentionthe specific name of the company, but what they do is they help provideautomated welding solutions for large manufacturers. So, what's going on withmanufacturers right now, we could look on a really really high level and wecould say there's a huge labor shortage right now, so the American WaldingSociety came out with this big piece on the demand for welders is growing byfour percent every year, but the supply of elders is decreasing by sevenpercent. So there's this huge gap and all these companies are really worried.Three five, ten years from now. How are they going to find qualified people forthese positions when there are fewer and fewer and fear of them, and it'staking longer to hire? That's something that's going to be relevant for everymanufacturer, so we have stuff. That's like more industry related, that's veryup in the clouds, and then we can also zoom in and look at stuff, that's veryspecific for that company. They're, hiring welders, interesting. Theycreate products that we could help them automate that traditionally they mighthave a tough time automating. So when I go to actually cold call, I want tomention some of that stuff in the intro and there's a couple different waysthat you can do that about, but I'm a really big fan of removing the surprise,introducing myself doing a quick permission based opener and thentelling them the reason for my call so hey ray Jason was potful prospectinghere. I know I probably catch in the middle of something, but I did someresearch. I notice you're hiring welders right now and I wanted to askyou something about that. Do you get a minute for me to tell you the reasonwhy I'm calling you can? Let Me Niyu want to keep channing so very upfront,contract sandler, you know kind of side. I love permission based openers and Ican drop something that's relevant in that it's going to grab your attention.You're, hiring welders, oh cool! That's going to be something the VP ofoperations there personas thinking about nine times out of ten. If you dothis properly, a person says yeah go ahead. What do you got or they mightask you a question if they're like you ray, they might be like okay? Well, howcan you help me with that? I would actually to ask your question first andcome to see what you've got to say. I think it's two thing that I want topick up from what you just say. So, first of all, when I was doing the job,I was probably not choosing the permission days open now. You know Iwould just go straight because my way of doing was. If I picked someone Iwould convince myself. I would be like a like a box or, like an I mean, a M, aguy. If I'm going on my Grego, I make you, may me don want to be in right nowbecause he's losing all his fight and it's I I was, I iterare out of six tobreak it to break his gleams as well. POAT IT stink making you out of moneymuch more than you, and I know that's friend, but let's tell you fight allright. I would always pretoire fact I would look at the prospect. I willresearch the person and pray to see if I can go n do in to do the like aspecific football team or you know, but I would not try to be boring. You knowyou don't go people and say a you've...

...been to such and such university, or aDon that you should put that team if you seen but they've done at theweekend, but I will try to get an element of making myself a hundredpercent share that if I grab that gay on the phone or that lady on the phoneI've got something of validate, I know it of value and if they don't listen tome- or we don't say yes to me- is kind of the los- that's kind of how I waspretty much thought right. You think about Permission Bay. So tell me a bitmore about how do you see permission base working well for you? Where do youthink it's working better yeah? And if someone is listening to this and theydon't use a permission based open or it works fine for them, I'm all for thattoo. I'm all for what works. The reason why I, like the permission basedopeners for two reasons, one it allows the prospect to opt in it's a bit of apatera interrupt and that they're not used to usually hearing. That is mostof the time. What I'll get is like yeah sure go ahead or hey never heard thatone before right, depending on the industry, that you call the secondthing it kind of gives you a bit of a mental break as a rap. I gives you abit of a mental one where the person's like yeah go ahead, they're, giving youthe stage they're saying yeah. Tell me why you're calling I know that I gottheir attention for another ten or fifteen seconds so nine times out often, no one when I make calls. I can't remember the last time someone said noto that, but nine times out of ten, you should have a ninety percent, effectiverate with a person saying yeah go ahead, and I guess once you has the firstquestion, then you can pretty much go into the next inary. You know whenyou've got your first on, so you can. You can rule out to a bit more spacing.That's just you know broadcasting something a little bit larger if youare just to go fast, so that makes sense next question, for you, Jason isa wrong red event. So I think I love what you've got to say about themanufacturing industry. What you're doing for your clients at that'sbrilliant, but obviously you guys are smart and do that for leaving okay forthe SDRs that are listening to us right. So you are is honest: He Alto work forour race sense, false or service. Now and a man you are like e. you've gotyourselves play book. You've got lots of SIPPETS. You've got lots of content,lots of training, people support and stuff, or you could be an Essa in agood struck company. You know pre, seria or Sera, figuring out the stufffiguring out the IP. If you honest, what are the resources you can get oryou can get to to become relevance? How would you go about being ready that ifyou don't have the shport of someone like you or the bus at well, that cangive you a little bit. You know if you are a new guys, so you functor thecompany. Where do you get that in fur the Internet, it's all over the placefor free most of it, so the welding stuff that was a third party called theAmerican walling society? That's not a resource that my client created, that'sjust out there in the in the you know in the Internet, free for them to grab.So what I would think about is and again the relevance that you canadd a stuff, that's more bigger industry related and then you also wantto find stuff specific to them too. So what you want to think about is acouple of things. So, if we're making it relevant for the prospect, I want tolook at three kind of main buckets. What do they educate their customersabout? This is more of a B to be thing if you're reaching out to a B to bbusiness versus a B TSE consumer. So what do they educate their customersabout? What do they brag about? So what are the accomplishments on theirwebsite? What do they really like, so we're using another company? I workwith sells the crum solution into higher education, so they send in touniversities and colleges and trade schools and that sort of stuff well,the cram will help them provide a better experience to the students thatwant to go to their university. So what of these universities brag about howawesome their programs are, how successful their students are afterthey graduate they're sharing stories like that right. So what do they bragabout? Those are things that I can loop in right and then the other thing thatyou want to think about is where the investing. So that's the hiring. That'sthe new product lines, the new service lines that the things that mergersacquisitions all of that kind of stuff. All of that's available to you as a Rep.you just need to figure out what are...

...the three to five things that I findmost common in the companies that I reach out to. So, if you take tensample accounts, this will take a little bit longer when you do this thefirst time, but try to find the three to five things that you will find thatyou find it every single account. Is it people that are hiring? Is it they'reposting about students? Doing something really well? Is it that you sell asolution that helps with customer support and you look to see if theyhave chat on their website or not whatever it is. This is how you dopersonalization or relevance. It scale find the patterns, so you could lookfor the same exact things every time. That's an get the kind of stuff that'slike specific to the company to get the stuff. That's more up here, theindustry type stuff. What I would look for is a couple things so get on Googleand look for top podcast in this ary top conferences, publications, tradeshows look specifically with conferences. A really good one is lookat the speaker list. Who are the influencers in that industry that areputting out the content. Bridge Group is an example of that bridge group isan influential company in our industry that people they compete against usetheir data like I've competed against them on deals before I use their data.When I sell, though kind of kind of cool for them right, it's a brandingfor them, but like the that resort, those resources all over the place. Soeven if your company has zero content, you can still go find the stuff it'sall out there for up uptop. I think it's from myself and the way of doingit again. Back in the day I found the act count manager at I was working withthe sels people being very useful as well. You know, sometimes you gettrained by some one, maybe like a product marketing parcener. Basically,someone never sorta stuff before, but they tell you out to sell it a rightand then you s speaking with the sesgurichloride, you know role of cityit a bit farther and try to score three pointer. You know it's no point usingit. Stuff is crap. What you've got to do is this is the real issue we sort.That issue is the issue that the guys wants to serve in the N HQ, but, quitefrankly, that's really what people care about, and I think they can of give youthat sort of purse of what's Appui in the market and what people respondswell to and also sometimes you know, one of the Teeton we encourage our gasdist is to use prospect. You know prospecter just cross the door on youand say now that interest its well look. Just please satisfy my intelligens.What is it that you know what should have done better and sometimes you knowyou may have one out of ten that actually give you the pointer. Ithappens to us one on a program where we are leading with artificialintelligence, mashing learning, what the quickest and doing the stuff andBlah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah and what we are solving back. Thenwe, the solution, was solving was using machine learning and its outfiit tomake sense of rats of security loves. So you can get to resolution of say: Gothat quicker. Okay and one of the CIS O chief information security of his artwas a prospective Criante said to one of my guy was like look, I mean I'm notgoing to throw anyone. I think my be He's a k o page, but you guys justforget me like and just know what's wrong. I was spoke to ten people todayis it me tell me, and I think he was just saving a bad day. Then they openup and said. No, you just focus on the wrong issue here right. Our problem isa shortage of security. The analists coming out of school, a good securityanalyst is someone that will be six months. Nine months in your business, aPram we've got that we did six months, they get pudge by someone else, andthen I cast a lot of money to bring a new one and there is a lot of ton overand it's just difficult to have a full team. And yes, artificial intelligenceand machine learning is brilliant. But we still need to have a human to make afinal decision and as the issue we've got, the issue we got is not hatingenough of those people and the security on US everywhere, but we don't dealwith them and all that sort of great stuff and we completely changed theapproach and we to a o, the h issue and when you speak about the hi issue- andyou start potentially with with a permission based opener and you speakto a CA. So was not an no factures hey.

I want you to speak to you about forFruitmen, do you have a minit and there was no I'm, not the right person, so aequipment in your function and then straight on. You strike a cover. Likewas the day as you want, and they let you speak in so what there is a shortEgean by the way I've been on on Saturday Legato, and I can see that inEo Tam you at the tone of offero thirty percent of the over the last couple ofyears, and I think it's got to be painful. I also looking at glass do inwhere you are based in Chicago and against the rich praise of those gamesare on nine tk dollars and in the recruiter will charge you twenty everything you find one, so the cost of just changing those gayes constantly issuper high. Our solution could de you to retain these people for longer andremove that headache. You US pick about it and now we go about it, and peopleare like. Yes, and literally, we went from Zero Conversion to ninety percentconversion. So it's really for near already evence work and sometimes nocross pejus tells you crystal clear what you should have doneright, but because we don't ask them what we are doing wrong and what weshould do right. You never realize it. I love that story, so it's using yourprospects for feedback. I think, as a strand bed are a lot of times with thecompanies. I'm working with right now are account executives, so I'm workingwith the AES to help them with prospecting- and you know what's reallyinteresting- is because they see the sales process and they do discovery.There are so many nuggets like the one you just shared right now. That wouldcome out and discovery if you did good discovery in a lot of times. What I seeis this barrier between, as in the SR team, where they aren't sharing thatinformation use. What you learn in the sales motionto inform the outbound motion. Is You get that stuff and if you're an SRbeter get your ate to record the calls, if they're, not so that you can listento them, yeah all of the informations right there? I think it's the it'soften the Sing Lincoln, and this is why a lot of people struggle with theaccount based campaign is that you know, for I can be it information to flowwhere and you need to have this relationship less. We do encourage ourguys. I mean we. I know it sounds a bit cliche because everybody he wants fans,but you know, will we say to our videos in our team and is in a tims? We wantyour ia to be a fun. We want them to be a fun, but just like you, we wanted tobe a fun of you right if your manager can get an email from your a once amonth and that you're absolutely extraordinary and an Essad to a BORACIC.We I issue with you technically. Well, you don't go that far, but if you buildthat relationship, you know this is that's for life. You know an a an a sright mindset. That's got a good video. I mean this is like having a robdiament in your back pocket you want to show. Is that guy you want to. You knowit's. You know a difficult is for those gets you a job if you've done ityourself and you want to empower them, you want to you want to make sure thatthey are being out show and often this relationship goes a long way. So evenin the future, they could use this relationship for their own developmentright, but coming back to cold Colin because we can get carried away. Ithink you and I as passionate about all the tactics and things and Ol that- andI of the topic of friend events I think is. We could probably have a wholeconversation about that, but was it that you feel by your eight Coquin?Well, have me there's a lot of reasons. I think that, just like anything elsethat you're resistant to that involves other people, if the experience is nota good one for the other person you're going to not like doing thatright, so we've already kind of addressed that part that we need tothink about what the experience is like for the prospect. I think the otherpart, too, is if we don't come in with a talk track and a good plan of whatwe're going to talk about and feel confident in that that's where theother part of Paul reluctance comes from, and I think that you have toreally sit in the mind of that person that you're reaching out to and a lotof people talk about how hard it is to be rejected. But you know it's alsoreally hard for people is rejecting other people.

I don't know about you read, I don'tfeel good rejecting other people. It doesn't feel good for me when someonereaches out, and I have to tell them to stop reaching out to me. I don't likedoing that, doesn't make you feel good in most prospects are not psychopaths,so they don't like rejecting people either. So you have to do this in a waywhere it's very easy for people to say no to you, you can't need the meeting,but it really comes down to coming in and being prepped. So if you know thatwhat you're going to say so one thing I want to add to that permission basedopener at the beginning when the person says yes, the very first thing that youneed to do, I'm a really big fan of dropping in priorities. So I drop inspecifically what I'm hearing people like them focused on right now, so Iimmediately make the conversation about Youre so for using that weldingautomation solution. It would sound something like this and we just werespent this yesterday, so this might night be totally smooth yeah so raiselike yeah totally. Why are you reaching out? Well, every like I said, I noticedthat you're hiring walders right now when I talked to VPS of operationsright now, they're telling me that they want to accomplish a couple things. Oneis that they're hiring welders right now, but what's a really big issue ingetting in the way of that is the labor shortage, so they're having trouble,keeping good qualified welders around and it's taking months to fill thosepositions to what we hear them talking about. Is this focus around maximizingefficiency of how they're handling automation right now so they're, eitherin a position where they've tried automation and it hasn't really workedor they're doing it? But there's kind of these like high mixed low volumeproducts that they haven't been able to figure out how to automate. I'm reallycurious, which one of those two things is top of mine for you right now, I'vethrown in a lot of keywords: there, automation, welders, labor shortage,high mix, low volume. This is what they talk about a lot. This is in theirlanguage. Ah, longae use the Jagon and also what I like in what you you justwent through it hey. This is what a Marin from motor people like you thatI'm speaking with I know I mean that group, I'm part of your tribe, you know,and you may go two of them like I'm speaking to lots of people like you, soyou can have a conversation with me and you need to be make sure that you aregood after so. If they get going, you know you can you can you can follow theflow right and then you're right using these best words? This was that youknow every single time. The drop. You know that your scoring a point I kining,that's great, but again you know it's coming to the relevance. How do youfind that you go and speak to existing clients about that? Do you good,probably a existing clients? How did you come so you said that you can havegood that yesterday right, so you had to get that information from someone. Ido think that it is a big thing, but did you Atalya it from the Internet,get it from your clients getting from the clients? The best place is yourprospects, so what we did together and what I'm training them and how to do it.So I'm not just doing this for them. I'm training them on how to figure thisout, O it's a little bit about, but the very first thing that we did is listento calls with the account executives and they're in Gong. So what you can doI mean all the calls are transcribed. I know word for word at the verybeginning of the call prospects will say: Yeah we're really struggling withthis right now boom. I want to know exactly word for word exactly what theysay patterns across all of them. I interviewed a couple of their countexecutives, that's where I got most of it and then the other parts, too, isjust with the SDR team that I'm working with. Is He? What do you hear a lot ofpeople talking about when you make hold calls when they respond to your coldemails? What do they respond? With came up yesterday, there was eight or ninekey words that they keep hearing coming up in the AE meetings. The discoverycalls in the demos that you keep hearing a cold calls that keep hearingan emails and it's pretty easy to build a talk track. If you just use theinformation and d you think about what are my prospects sharing, that's top ofmind for them that also intersects. If you look at a ven diagram that alsointersects with how we help to the information, is there and as an SR, youcan't use the excuse that, ah we don't record or we don't use Gong, we don'tuse chorus, we'll get your a to record the Callin Zoom, it's free for them todo that, and on the call to sit in on a...

...couple. Damos do something right, butthe best information you're going to get is from actual prospects. You canget online and look at all the other kind of stuff and get some trends, butwhat prospects are actually sharing is going to be way more important one oneother thing real quick to, I think that's underrated is customer successin anyone who's delivering the product or service. So when they do these onboarding calls and they help the custom of their stuff. That comes up in thosecalls to to talk to your delivery team or your customer success team. What arepeople coming to us? What problem are they coming to US trying to solve? Howdo we help them? What value do we get all the informations right there? Youalso mentioned co Reditis, it's funny, because we, I was picking earlier thisweek with some Eton from our Ridge but correleated as well of the issue, foryou know, videos to move toll all nearly recorded people, as kind of thefirst thing that people for of from you know the coralines don't like cutting.Do you believe that that this is the main fact of or SDR, not beingsuccessful correlates? Well, I think hall reluctance is a symptom of themnot having a good talk, track and feeling comfortable like they know theperson. Yes, the call reluctance, I think, is a symptom. I rarely seepeople that are afraid of, like so afraid of rejection that that keepsthem from picking up the phone. I rarely see that it's more people aren'tconfident in what they're going to say because they put the focus of the coldcall on mastering the pitch. Yes earlier, what you said Ray was we havea solution that can help make go that go away. That's your value! PROP! It'spretty simple! You talk about the problem. We can help make that go away.It's not well, you know we help so and so do this and we can drive our ay bythis percentage of we worked with you. That's not a very good value. Prop thevalue prop is here's. What people like you are trying to accomplish right nowand stuff that gets in the way, and we can help with that. The coal cost notthe time to dig into anything else besides that leave a cliffhanger at theend, so I believe one hundred percent in nine- well probably ninety ninepercent of scenarios that it's the talk track in the messaging and that it'snot customer centric and the person doesn't really feel like they know whothey're talking to yeah. Now it's tits the right on self and your completelyright, I think the corradiancy is you, have a small percentage of people arejust don't like it but tried the German think that they may would have beengreat and then try and just stop like, but that's probably what the interval.In fact, we've seen something travel being very successful at the jobbecause they can put the mask on. You know when you not be in the food, but Ilove. I love your response about the symptom I love the Fiona is to to cosand what do we do about it, but which need to do ye to equip them withconfidence and they could have his confidence is making sure that they canthey on dust on the, why they can aloon the way they said the wet the when theundersong footed a pitch. I remember being an S, I think, to say somethingwhen I started. I had no idea what I was talking about. Literally no ideayou, the benefits, sat trying to sell the solution. I won't mention that aneven if it waslike many many minute years ago, but it was quite a bigcompany. I was thinking about one of the net walking solution and I wasspeaking about nerves and this and that absolutely no idea what I was talkingabout, what they were doing, how it works. But I was too scared to askbecause everybody around you was picking about it like frumenty, so thatif I ask I'm very so stupid- and I think that that's also but that was onme- I think that's on you when you stop to think that if she s the question youare to stupid now I don't do it anymore. I've got a bit of a state as if thereis an acronym that I don't know does not trust me. I would just say: Heywhat is it and I'd be curious about it? But when you start it's difficult toask, but surely, when everybody around you like use that sort of Jagon and useit friendly, so I agree with you. I've got one less question for you becausewe get into the end of the of the recording time. Unfortunately, what doyou think we can do in our industry to kind of change the bet repetition ofCorcunda man? I think it first as sales leaders we need to arm our reps withthe information that they need part or...

...that starts is educating them on whotheir prospecting to so there needs to be very clear: Hey here's, the persona,here's what they care about here, the problems they're having here's, how wecan help here's recordings of US doing. Customer interviews for you to listento you need to help them build empathy for the people that they're reachingout to so we can short cut that process. That's good! The next thing that weneed to do is really focus on. How can we arm the person in a way to wherethey have the ability to not wing it necessarily but go into a conversationand know that that could go in a lot of different ways and they have talkingpoints and things that they can bring up? If you think about how you approachany other conversation in your life, you know you don't just like talk toyour friends or family when you're meeting people in public, you don'tknow what the end outcome of that conversation is going to be. You'retotally, finally, just being in the moment and seeing where it goes, whywouldn't you approach a cold call like that? You know kind of what you want toaccomplish, but also be open to the fact that it might not make sense toset a meeting. You know what I mean, so I think that doing those two things andmaking it more byer, centric and customer centric and really talking tothe customer. What we need to do as an industry is if we make that cold call,a better experience for prospects. People won't hate, getting cold callsso much either yeah on that posen. In terms of the reframing and theconversation, one thing that we did a long time ago we had one pere wastelling us, but basically wanting to quit, and that person was rative good.But I all expectation for themselves. If you will okay, so out of fiveconversation or ten conversation, I think they are convulsing when meetingswith with the prospect and the way we re friend that follows civil look waswhat's your coconotte about the exact number, but let's coit hundred dollarspermitting. Okay was okay. Well, if you need to have ten conversation to getwhat meeting that me that every single time someone rejects you you're, makingten dollars is fantastic. You know, because you get Nane rejection to get ameeting and that's when you get young in dollars. So when you get come onrejecting you technically is pretty much ten sand. Your poke! This is agood news, refrain it into something positive. Not everybody will say yes toyou, esactly completely normal, that people don't say yes to you, but thengetting particular was just like upset, because not everybody was saying thisyes to them, and it's quite an interesting to so reframe the thing ina positive way, so Jason. If anyone wants to speak to you, follow up onthat conversation or, more importantly, engaged with blissful prospecting.What's the best way to get to ofyou our website blissful prospect com, soyou're going to find a couple things. So, if you're listening to this andyou're like hey, I just want free stuff yeah, it's all good. We got a podcastthere. We have guides on the reply method, how a structure a call theemail we got, video guides all kinds of like just tons of free stuff there, ifyou're a rep looking for some help. We have something called outbound squad,it's a killer community of raps that are bad asses at their companies andit's got coaching community training content, all that kind of stuff, and wework with companies as well to so. If you're looking for help implementing.You know this approach with your SDR b, The r team or yours. Potentially, wehave able to help there too, so blissful prospecto. The best way tocheck us out. That's Great Well Sans Again Jason. He was absolute bigot atconversation with you today, yeah you too, thanks for having an you've, been listening to be to berevenue acceleration to ensure that you never miss an episode subscribe to theshow in your favorite podcast player. Thank you so much for listening untilnext time. I.

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