B2B Revenue Acceleration
B2B Revenue Acceleration

Episode · 4 months ago

111: Why People Hate Cold Calls w/ Jason Bay

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

SDRs talk about how hard it is to be rejected when cold calling — and it is.

But it’s also hard for the person on the other end of the phone to reject. Reps need to make the conversation about the person that they’re cold calling both to overcome call reluctance and to change cold calling’s bad reputation.

In this episode, we interview Jason Bay , Chief Prospecting Officer at Blissful Prospecting , about why people hate cold calls so much and what SDRs can do about it.

We discussed why starting a conversation is the whole point of cold calling, the success of permission-based openers, avoiding prospecting narcissism with customer-centricity, and what sales leaders (and SDRs) can do to combat call reluctance.

Check out this related episode: Episode 110 w/ Sam Nelson, “Ramping Up SDRs: The First 90 Days”

To hear this interview and many more like it, subscribe to The B2B Revenue Acceleration Podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or our website.

The whole point of making a coldcall, sending a called the email, doing out the whole point is tostart conversations and if we can focus more on getting the person to reply toan email or get them to talk to us, so we can get pastthe first thirty seconds of a cold call, there's less pressure on you. Asa wrap. You were listening to be to be revenue acceleration, apodcast dedicated to helping software executive stay on the cutting edge of sales and marketingin their industry. Let's get into the show. Hi, welcome to beto be a revenue acceleration. My name is Ohayamoutier and I'm here today withJason Bay, Chief Prospecting Officer, at least full prospecting. I was itgoing today? Jason? Right, it's going good. Man. We weretalking about beer before this, so you got me like. I'm ready forit, Dude. It's a Friday for the people listening to us is it'sfive pm for me in London. It's nine am from Jason, I believeon the West Coast. And Yeah, we just were just speaking about bills, because this is what you've got to do on Friday. We walk fivedays so it's to get a few bars on Friday. I guess that's theD W T right exactly. Ye Have you grind all a week to getto that Friday and just shut it off. Hopefully, if you're listening to see, you get a chance to shut it off over the weekend. Andas I was saying to you, Jason, actually I came across just through apot get. There was reasoning and I think you did that less showwith John Burrows and you five. The first time I listen to your voiceI was having a few girls myself on Holy Day, relaxing on my sonbed, listening to you and John Kicking some great stuff around, cool cuttingand says and be DAS and stuff. I think. Well, we werethinking around bills. The next thing we beetween if if we need to makesure it's somewhere other is bills. Absolutely so today we'll speak about the Turpyat I you know you absolutely love, which is cool. Cool. Whydo people ate them? But before we get into the topic and get intothe conversation, would you mind, Jason, telling us a little bit more aboutshall self and the company you represent, place food prospecting. Yeah, sothe way that I got into sales was two thousand and eight. Iwas a freshman. We call it college here, you guys call it university, and I was going to be a friends of scientist. That's what Iwanted to do, is work, and I laughed getting the law enforcement thatsort of thing. And I sort of got into sales accidentally, like mostpeople do. And I work for a company where they teach university students howto run a house painting business. And what I didn't know in that jobis that when I started that I would be going door to door. SoI my first sales experience was going door to door. The average paint jobwas around three to five thousand dollars us, so is a decent purchase. ButI hired a bunch of my friends to go out and go like doorknocking for me right and I learned a lot of really interesting things during thattime that I think really applied a to business, to business as well,and one of them was I thought that if I focused on the houses thatneeded painting that I was going to have a lot of success in those neighborhoodsof eight or nine out of every ten houses had peeling pain on it.But what I found out is that just because someone needs something doesn't mean thatthey want it or can afford it, you know, which I think isa really important lesson and B to be because we have so much more dataright we can research a company, look at the people and just because someoneneeds your product or service doesn't mean that they want it or have budget forit, you know. So we got to be a little more we canget into that a little bit more, I guess, intentional about how wetarget those companies. The other thing that I learned to this is another reallyimportant lesson, especially for cold calling, is that when I would talk topeople at the door and it'd say hey, Ray, you know thice to meetyou me. I love to like paint your house. You were paintinga bunch of houses is summer. No one was interested in talking to meabout that. But if instead I focused on the free estimate and the peelingpaint that I noticed up on the face ship boards up there, people werea lot more receptive to talking to me when they didn't feel like I wastrying to sell them the very first time that I meet them again. Howdoes that relate to be to be well, a lot of times when we're coldcalling. What makes it really tough is if we start talking about ourproduct or service. That's a sales conversation and we have to separate those two. Prospecting the whole point of making a...

...cold call, sending our cold email, doing outbound, the whole point is to start conversations and if we canfocus more on getting the person to reply to an email or get them totalk to us so we can get past the first thirty seconds of a coldcall, there's less pressure on you as a wrap because you're just trying toget the other person to talk. If they don't get into a conversation witheither, are never going to take a meeting right. So I learned thatas a nineteen year old kid with braces. They are selling house spinning services.In the way I got into what we do. It post for prospectingwas in two thousand and thirteen. I left that company. I work withhim for a long time as a sales manager of EP of sales and thenspend some time in their marketing department. I really wanted to help other companiesfigure out this outbound thing and formerly with possible prospect and we've been in businesstwo thousand and seventeen working with professional services companies and SASS companies, helping themkind of remove the sack from outbound by doing it in a more customer centricway. That makes sense that. I love the fact that you started bydon't to doll selling. This is what got me started in the space.I mean I was technically over qualified to be Bediz. Yeah, got meengineering degree and then I went to a business school, but I was sentto England to learn English by your company that that was working for in Paris, and then the units that I was working for, God moved some ofthe places in the world, so I couldn't not go back for that job. So I was kind of free and I was reading a lot of biographyof super successful people, like CEOS and stuff like that. But then,and most of them said, look Dall to door selling, Tailey marketing,recruitment, like, if you start your Cara in that, enjoy it andare good at it, that's what made us the Seeo that that makes somethat that makes people. So I just look to myself, you know what, I'm just going to do that for six months, like military service.I want to do it like a good can see if I'm good at it. See from joy, get that experience, also working in the U K andstuff like that, and yeah, I am now. I do appreciatewhat you are saying about foster of WHO getting into it. You get intoit without too much training and, particularly when I started at young get muchtraining. In fact, Linkedin was not really even the source back then.You had to go through the euro pages and stuff. But then you findno way and every single thing you find something that works. It's like whenyou play offer you are not really good, you just remember the good shot andthat's what makes you come back the next day. You just that.There is a sort of rush every single time you find a new strategy onnew tactic and the dough to do I think is great. But anyway,let's go into the conversation. But I love your background. So coldcutting isa bit of a dirty town right. Nobody likes to speak about it,but I personally believe, and I think you know I was reading some ofthe report from the bridge group, they would bag that up and we knowit's probably one of the most efficient way to create pipeline. must more efficientthan email. Of course there is lots of us. Are Techniques like eventsand intent marketing and your website and lots of great stuff, but I wouldlike to get your sorts on cold cutting is an effective way to drive pipeline? Yeah, absolutely. The data speaks for itself. I Love Bridge Groupand all the stuff that they do, but I think you get a stepback and think about a couple things in terms of so I call this prospectingnarcissism. Right, you brought this up where we talked about our products orservice, and that's really a symptom of the approach being about what we wantfrom the prospect as sales people. And when we approach it that way,we don't think about what the exper dances like on the receiving end of acall, of an email, etc. So what we need to think aboutis how, what experience are we creating for the person on the receiving endof this? So if we were thinking user experience, the same thing thata product team would think about when they create outreach or sales loft or HBOor an Apple Product Whatever. They put themselves in the shoes of the peopleusing it. So if you put yourselves in the shoes of the prospect,what do we know about People's communication preferences. Well, some people like emails,some people like phones, some people like social some people like to text. You don't know what that is for your buyer. So if you onlyrely on email, which that would work on me, by the way,I'm not going to ever pick up a...

...cold call. I just don't.I don't have time for it. I have my phone is on, donot disturb most of the day. I don't want that inbound kind of stuff. But you know what, a lot of people would much prefer a phonecall. They're like, it's way quicker for them. That's if they don'tknow what those preferences are. So that's that's really the big reason for thephone is you're eating people in a channel that they might prefer. The otherthing, too, is, and what that bridge group study found, ina lot of other very similar studies find, is that any prospect you talk tothese days, ask him how many cold calls that they get versus howmany cold emails, and it's literally the ratio is like hundreds of cold emailsto maybe a few half a dozen calls. People are not picking up the phoneright now because they see studies. Ray Are they not studies. Theysee influencers on linkedin post stuff like cold callings at so sells. People like, Oh, maybe I shouldn't call people anymore. Oh, you know,they said not to call on Mondays or Fridays because people are busy on Mondaysand Fridays. You know, they're getting ready to drink beers or whatever rightso people don't call. The man is in Fridays and you it's Friday rightnow, at nine o'clock in the morning, twelve pm eastern time, and Ihave students in our outpound squad that they make cold calls on Friday afternoonsand that's when they get most of their meetings because no one's calling people.That's what you got to think about is let's look at what the data says, and that's let's also try to do what other reps are not doing.Reps are not calling, they're not calling on Mondays and Fridays, they're notcalling people first thing in the morning. Do the things that people aren't doing. I hundred person love what you just said. As a rat myself,I've always been before. I kind of more responsibilities. When I had lessresponsibilities, I used to leave everything to the last minutes. I'm going ona trip to bally for three weeks. I'M gonna pack my bike literally saltynews before the plane. I'll just like that kind of don't care. Ido it. And Friday was my best prospecting day, or my friends.In fact I was in the UK. So people would go to the pubat lunch time. They won't come back until two or three, and ofcourse that a few be also, everybody goes reporting in the afternoon. RightI'm reporting two clients have got courdes you want to go hunting when no oneelse is ending. And also, I think the prospect probably don't want tospeak to you too much between, as you said, during the day because, let's say you've got your student squad that you've got to deal with.So from nine am you speaking to me right now? Someone trying to callyou won't get you. You are busy. You know your time between nine totwelve is busy. Your time between twelve one thirty is your lunch time. So you made with at your desk or you may catch up. Maystill been meeting and every or up until the red the end of the day, you should be in meetings. If you are an exact right, exact. Are Not just waiting for the foot to ring down. That sells people. Okay, so you've got to catch them when they are at that theirdesk, but not with someone on a video conference or someone in front ofthem. And that's early in the morning, later in the day, it's Fridayafternoon, it could be Sunday, you know, sending a few emailson Sunday evening. Just catch training to get a response from people, becauseyou won't call them on the mobile ONS and deys. It's too keen,I guess, but I think we've seen so many as d are focusing theprospecting time during those hours. There was a book called the fanatical prospective.He was speaking about the golden hours. Right, you've got to pick yourgolden hours, get prepared for them, prepare your list, prepare your stuffand go boom boom, boom, boom boom during those golden hours. Ahundred percent agree with you, and also on the medium, I think youare right. I'm a fun person. You send me an email, Idon't really want to read it, but if you call me, and it'smaybe because of my industry and what I do, I will always give youa chance if it's a recruit or calling me and say hey, I wantto do your recruitment. I'm already equipped. So how do you think you aredifferent? Give me the stories and what you think you are different fromwhat they already having place. Will tell me to stripping that under being property. And you know what, most of the time is then giving up onme, not me giving up on running. If they don't know what you're saying, they don't know what to say because they've not sought about me beforecutting me. So that's why I would like to get you maybe with thenext question, do you think, because I think I think that's one importantthing. you open a cool email or...

...you can of GEF time to acool, cool for Real Evans. Right. So how would do you get therid Evans quickly? I would you get to it's in the best possibleways, so then people can give you is all response of a bit ofthat time. Yeah, there's a couple ways you can think about this andI like to look at things in framework. So if we kind of step backa little bit, let's talk about why it's important to be relevant.In the first way, I chunk the cold call together as you have yourintro. That's the first part of the call. It's the first thirty seconds. The only goal of that is to get to the next part, whichis the hook. The Hook could be one to five minutes long. Thisis where you get to ask maybe two or three questions. You get tofigure out if it makes sense to do the next stage close and to geta meeting so and then intro. What you need to do is get theperson's attention and get them like leaning in so that you can ask them questionsand get a conversation started. The hardest part with a cold call is gettinglike momentum, and momentum in the call dies when someone like you asked aquestion and they don't know the answer to her they weren't prepared to answer it, or the person gives an objection. Like you want to increase the momentum, and the way that you do that is by adding something relevant. There'sa lot of different flavors of relevant events, so I think we should talk aboutthat. So I work with a company. I can't mention the specificname of the company, but what they do is they help provide automated weldingsolutions for large manufacturers. So what's going on with manufacturers right now? Wecould look on a really, really high level and we could say there's ahuge labor shortage right now. So the American Welding Society came out with thisbig piece on the demand for welders is growing by four percent every year,but the supply of welders is decreasing by seven percent. So there's this hugegap and all these companies are really worried three, five, ten years fromnow, how are they going to find qualified people for these positions when thereare fewer and fewer and fewer of them and it's taking longer to hire?That's something that's going to be relevant for every manufacturer. So we have stuffthat's like more industry related, that's very up in the clouds, and thenwe can also zoom in and look at stuff that's very specific for that company. They're hiring welders interesting they create products that we could help them automate thattraditionally they might have a tough time automating. So when I go to actually coldcall, I want to mention some of that stuff in the intro andthere's a couple different ways that you can do that. About but I'm areally big fan of removing the surprise, introducing myself, doing a quick permissionbased opener and then telling them the reason for my call. So Hey,Ray Jason, with postful prospecting here. I know I probably catch in themiddle of something, but I did some research. I notice you're hiring weldersright now and I wanted to ask you something about that. Do you geta minute for me to tell you the reason why I'm calling? You canlet me if you want to keep chatting. So very upfront, contract sandler.You know kind of say I love permission based openers and I can dropsomething that's relevant and that it's going to grab your attention. You're hiring waders. Oh cool, that's going to be something the VP of operations their personasthinking about. Nine Times out of ten, if you do this properly, aperson says yeah, go ahead. What do you got are they mightask you a question. If they're like you read, they might be likeokay, well, how can you help me with that? I would actuallydid you ask your question first and come to see what you've got to say? I think it's two thing that I want to pick up from what youjust say so. First of all, when I was doing the job,I was probably not choosing the permission days open. Now you know I wouldjust go straight because my way of doing was if I picked someone, Iwould convince myself I would be like a like a boxer, like an MMAguy. If, if I'm going on McGregor, I may, you made. They don't want to be in right now because he's losing all these fight, let's say, blows, fights are out, or you guys, youlost five out of six and cricket to break his glams as well. Pulla guy by still making a lot of money, much more than you,and I know that's friend, but let's tell you, you are a fightall right. I would always preple myself for the fight. I would lookat the prospect. I will research the person down, try to see ifI gon Gondall in team. Do they like a specific football team or youknow? But I will not try to be boring. You know, youdon't get people and say, Hey,...

...you've been to such a such auniversity or a yeah, I don't that you support the team of you seeingwhat they've done at the weekend. But I will try to get an elementof making myself hundred percent show that if I grub that day on the footlady, on the food, I've got something of values deliv on them.I know it's some value and if they don't listen to me or you won'tsay yes to me, is kind of dollous. That's kind of how Iwas pretty much to it right. And you think about permission based, sotell me a bit more about how do you see permission based working well foryou? Way Do you think it's walking better? Yeah, and if someoneis listening to this and they don't use a permission based opener, it worksfine for them. I'm all for that too. I'm all for what works. The reason why I like the permission based openers for two reasons. One, it allows the prospect to opt in. It's a bit of a pattern andinterrupting that. They're not used to usually hearing that. Most of thetime what I'll get is like yeah, sure, go ahead, or hey, never heard that one before, right, depending on the industry that you call. The second thing it kind of gives you a bit of a mentalbreak as a wrap and gives you a bit of a mental one where theperson's like yeah, go ahead, they're giving you the stage. They're sayingyeah, tell me why you're calling. I know that I got their attentionfor another ten or fifteen seconds. So nine times out of ten no onewhen I make calls. I can't remember the last time someone said now tothat, but nine times out of ten you should have a ninety percent effectiverate with the person saying yeah, go ahead. And I guess once youask the first question, then you can pretty much go into the nicks scenariowhen you've got your first on. So you can you can rule out toa bit more spasy thing else us, you know, grow casting something alittle bit larger if you are just to go first. So that makes sense. Next question for you. Jason is wrong. Read Evans, I think. I love what you've got to say about the manufacturing industry in what you'redoing for your clients. That that's brilliant. But obviously you guys are smart anddo that for leading. Okay, for the SDLS that are listening tous right. So you are, is honest. The other work for outreachall sends false all service now and a manual lacky. You've got yourselves playbook. You've got lots of supports. You've got lots of content, lots oftraining, people, support and stuff. or You could be honesty in theboots truck company, you know, pre Serri a, or sorry a,figuring out the stuff, figuring out the ICP. If you honest, DA, what are the resources you can get or you can get to to becomerelevant? I would you go about being relevant. If you don't have thesupport of someone like you or a bus at well, that can give youa little bit. You know, if you are a new guys, anew functioning the company, well, do you get it? In Food,the Internet? It's all over the place for free, most of it.So the welding stuff, that was a third party called the American Welding Society. That's not a resource that my client created. That's just out there inin the as you know, in the Internet, free for them to grab. So what I would think about is, and again, the relevance that youcan add a stuff that's more bigger industry related, and then you alsowant to find stuff specific to them too. So what you want to think aboutis a couple of things. So, if we're making it relevant for theprospect I want to look at three kind of main pockets. What dothey educate their customers about? This is more of a BDB thing if you'rereaching out to a be tob business versus a B Toc consumer. So whatdo they educate their customers about? What do they brag about? So whatare the accomplishments on their website? What do they really like? So ifwe're using another company I work with sells the CIM solution into higher education.So they sell into universities and colleges and trade schools and that sort of stuff. Well, the CRM will help them provide a better experience to the studentsthat want to go to their university. So what are these universities Brag about? How awesome their programs are, how successful their students are after they graduate. Their sharing stories like that, right. So what do they brag about?Those are things that I can loop in, right. And then theother thing that you want to think about is where the investing? So that'sthe hiring, that's the new product lines, the new service lines, that thethings that mergers acquisitions, all of that kind of stuff. All ofthat's available to you as a Rep. you just need to figure out whatare the three to five things that I...

...find most common and the companies thatare reach out to. So if you take ten sample accounts, this willtake a little bit longer when you do this the first time, but tryto find the three to five things that you'll find that you find it everysingle account. Is it people that are hiring? Is it they're posting aboutstudents doing something really well? Is it that you sell a solution that helpswith customer support and you look to see if they have chat on their websiteor not? Whatever it is, this is how you do personalization or relevanceat scale. Find the patterns, so you could look for the same exactthings every time. That's how you get the kind of stuff that's like specificto the company. To get the stuff that's more up here, the industrytype stuff, what I would look for is a couple things. So geton Google and look for top podcast in Sary, top conferences, publications,trade shows. Look specifically with conferences, a really good one to look atthe speaker list. Who are the influencers in that industry that are putting outthe content? Bridge Group is an example of that. Bridge Group is aninfluential company in our industry that people they compete against use their data. LikeI've competed against them ideals before. I use their data when I sell,though. kind of cool for them, right. It's branding for them.But like there that resort, those resources all over the place. So evenif your company has zero content, you can still go find the stuff.It's all out there for up for graps. I think it's from myself and thedo all do it again back in the day. I've found the accountmanager that that was walking with you. Sets. People are being very usefulas well. You know, sometimes you get trained by some of them,maybe like a Product Marketing Pussa. No, basically someone neve all sort of stuffbefore, but they tell you ought to say it right and then youstill speaking with the set. As guy say you know what you got outof do a bowl with it. You know, Ryo city a bit Fazzoand try to go stree point. You know it's no point using the stuffis crap. What you've got to do is this is the really sue.We sort of that issue. Is the usual that the guys wants to solvein the in Hcube, but quite frankly, that's really what people care about andI think they kind of give you that sort of pulse of what's openingin the market and what people responds well too. And also sometimes, youknow, one of the feat don't we encourage our guys do is to useprospect. You know prospect. I just close the down yours and I'm notinterested. It's what look, just please satisfy my intelligence. What is itthat you know what would have done better? And sometimes you know, you mayhave one out of ten that actually give you the pointer. It happensto us on a program where we are leading with artificial intelligence machine learning,where the quick as a doing the stuff and blah blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, Blah Blah, and what we are solving. Back then, what the solution was solving was using machine learning and atartificial intelligence to make sense of lots of security labs so you can get toresolution or cyber attack quicker. Okay, and one of the CIAS, orchief information security officer, it was a prospective clients, said to one ofmy guy was like look, I mean, I'm not going through anyone. Ithink my peach is a kill pitch, but you days just get me likeand just know what's wrong. I spoke to ten people today. Isit? Me? Tell me, and I think it was just having abad day that guy open up and say no, you just focus on thewrong issue here. Right our problem is a shortage of security analy is comingout of school. A good security analyst is someone that will be six months, nay months, in Your Business, a Prim we've got that within sixmonths get possed by someone else and then becaust. A lot of me tobring a new one and there is a lot of turnover and it's just difficultto have a full team. And yes, artificial intelligence and machine learning is brilliant, but we still need to have a human to make a final decision. And as the issue, we've got the issue. We've got some tellingenough of those people and the security althers are everywhere, but we don't dealwith them and all that sort of great stuff and we completely change the approach. And we spoke about the hi issue. And when you speak about the hiissue and you start potentially with a with a permission based opener, andyou speak to a CIS or with not...

...an ed of HS. Hey,I want you to speak to you about recruitment. Do you have a minuteand there is one another right persons of recruitment in your function. And thenstraight or you strike a cover like quest that they will you want and theylet you speak. And so where there is a short age, and bythe way, I've been on on selves, navigator, and I can see thatin your team you on the ton of of around thirty percent of theover the last couple of years and I think that's got to be painful.Also, looking at glass door in why you are based in Chicago, andagain see at the average price of those guys, around K dollars and anotherto recruit. I will charge you twenty every time you find one. Sothe cost of just changing those gays consistantly is super high. Our solution couldhelp you to retain these people for longer and remove that headache. You wantto speak about it and now we go about it and people like yes,and literally we went from Zero Conversion to ninety percent conversion. So it's reallyfunny or relevance work. And sometimes you know a prospector tells you free stillclear what you should have done right, but because we don't ask them whatwe are doing wrong and what we should do right, you never realize it. I love that story. So it's using your prospects for feedback. Ithink as a str and bede are a lot of times with the companies I'mworking with right now, our account executives. So I'm working with the AEAS tohelp them with prospecting. And you know it's really interesting, is becausethey see the sales process and they do discovery. There are so many nuggetslike the one you just shared right now that would come out and discovery ifyou did good discovery. And a lot of times what I see is thisbarrier between a's in the STR team where they aren't sharing that information. Usewhat you learn in the sales motion to inform the outbound motion, because youget that stuff. And if you're an str video, get your a torecord the calls if they're not, so that you can listen to them.Yeah, all of the informations right there. I think it's the it's often themee seeing Lincoln, and this is why lots of people struggle with theaccount base campaign. Is that you know? So I can't bease. You theinformation to flu there and you need to have that relationship and it's wedo encourage you all. Guys. I mean we I know it sounds abit cliche because everybody he wants funds, but you know what we say toour videos. You know team and is the I know teams. We wantyou, i. a, to be a fun we want them to bea fund, not just like you wanted to be a fun of you right, if you're manager, can get an email from your a onceonone saying thatyou're absolutely extraordinary, and then I sat to operatix. We with and issuewith you. Technically, well, we don't go that far, but ifyou build that relationship, you know this is that's far life. You know, an a an as right mindset. That's got to good video. Imean this is like having a rough diamon in your back pockets. You wantto share. Is that guy you want to you know it's you know,a difficulty is for those giates to do the job. If you've done ityourself and you want to empower them, you want to you want to makesure that they are being no show, then often do. Relationship goes along way. So even in the future they could use this relationship for theirown development. Right. But coming back to cold cooling, because we canget carried away I think you and I ask pasionate about all the tactics andthings and all that, and and I love the topic of Fred Events.I think is we could probably have a whole conversation about that. But waysthat you feeled by your eight quid coding all have me there's a lot ofreasons. I think that, just like anything else that you're resistant to,the involves other people. If the experience is not a good one for theother person, you're gonna not like doing that right. So we've already kindof addressed that part that we need to think about what the experience is likefor the prospect. I think the other part two is if we don't comein with a talk track and a good plan of what we're going to talkabout and feel confident in that. That's where the other part of Paul reluctancecomes from, and I think you have to really sit in the mind ofthe person that you're reaching out to. And a lot of people talk abouthow hard it is to be rejected, but you know it's also really hardfor people is rejecting other people. I...

...don't know about you, Ray,I don't feel good rejecting other people. Doesn't feel good for me when someonereaches out at and I have to tell them to stop reaching out to me. I don't like doing that. Doesn't make me feel good. In mostprospects are not psychopaths, so they don't like rejecting people either. So youhave to do this in a way where it's very easy for people to sayno to you. So you can't need the meeting. But it really comesdown to coming in and being prepped. So if you know that what you'regoing to say. So one thing I want to add to that permission basedopener at the beginnings, when the person says yes, the very first thingthat you need to do. I'm a really big fan of dropping in priorities. So I drop in specifically what I'm hearing people like them focused on rightnow. So I immediately make the conversation about you. Ray. So forusing that welding automation solution. It would sound something like this and we justwor send this yesterday, so this might not be totally smooth yet. Soraised like yeah, totally, why you're reaching out. Well, Hey,ry, like I said, I noticed that you're hiring welders right now andwhen I talk to VP's of operations right now. They're telling me that theywant to accomplish a couple things. One is that they're hiring welders right now, but what's a really big issue in getting in the way of that isthe labor shortage. So they're having trouble keeping good qualified welders around and it'staking months to fill those positions. To what we hear them talking about isthis focus around maximize us in efficiency of how they're handling automation right now.So they're either in a position where they've tried automation and hasn't really worked,or they're doing it but there's kind of these like high mix, low volumeproducts that they haven't been able to figure out how to automant. I'm reallycurious which one of those two things is stop of mine for you right now. I've thrown in a lot of keywords. They're automation, Welder's labor shortage,high mix, low volume. This is what they talked about a lot. This is in their language. No long ways use the Juggon and alsowhat I like, in which you just went through, is hey, thisis what I'm mirroring from those of people like you that I'm speaking with Iknow, I mean that group. I'm part of your tribe, you know, and you mean the two of them like I'm speaking to lots of peoplelike you. So you can have a conversation with me. I need tobe make sure that you are good after El. So if they get going, you know you can, you can, you can follow the flow right,and then you're right. Using these buzz words. This was that.You know, every single time they drop, you know that you're scoring your pointthe kinking. That's great, but again, you know it's coming tothe redevance is, how do you find that? You go and speak toexisting clients about that. You good, probably a existing clients. How didyou come so? You said that you you can have built that yesterday,right. So you have to get that information from someone. I know theInternet is a big thing, but did you actually get it from the Internet? Getting from your clients, getting from their clients the best places, yourprospects. So what we did together, and what I'm training them on howto do, is so I'm not just doing this for them, I'm trainingthem on how to figure this out. So it's a little bit about butthe very first thing that we did is listen to calls with the account executivesand they're in Gong. So what you can do? I mean all thecalls are transcribed. I know word for word. At the very beginning ofthe called, prospects will say, yeah, we're really struggling with this right now. Boom. I want to know exactly, word for word, exactlywhat they say. There's patterns across all of them. I interviewed a coupleof their count executives. That's where I got most of it, and thenthe other parts too, is just with the SDR team that I'm working with. Is Hey, what do you hear a lot of people talking about whenyou make cold calls, when they respond to your cold emails? What dothey respond with? Came up yesterday. There was eight or nine key wordsthat they keep hearing coming up in the AE meetings, the discovery calls,in the demos that you keep hearing and cold calls they keep hearing in emails. And it's pretty easy to build a talk track if you just use theinformation and you think about what are my prospects sharing? That's top of minefor them. That also intersects. If you look at a ven diagram.That also intersects with how we help. So the informations there and as anSDR, you can't use the excuse that all we don't recorder, we don'tuse Gong, we don't use course, will get your ae to record thecall on zoom. It's free for them to do that in on the call, to sit in on a couple of...

Demos. Do something right. Butthe best information you're going to get us from actual prospects. You can getonline and look at all the other kind of stuff and get some trends,but what prospects are actually sharing is going to be way more important. Oneother thing real quick to I think that's underrated is customer success in anyone who'sdelivering the product or service. So when they do these on boarding calls andthey help the customer their stuff, that comes up in those calls to sotalk to your delivery team or your customer success team. What are people comingto us? What problem are they coming to US trying to solve? Howdo we help that? What value do we get? All the informations rightthere. You also mentioned coridictants. It's funny because we was speaking audio thisweek. We's some themes from outreach but coridictants as one of the lesue for, you know, bdls, to move all a new rebocuit people as kindof the first thing that people are foot off from. You know, thecourridic does if it's don't like cutting. Do you believe that that this isthe main fact off is dl not being successful corridictants? Well, I thinkall reluctance is a symptom of them not having a good talk track and feelingcomfortable, like they know the person. Yes, the call reluctance, Ithink, is a symptom. I rarely see people that are afraid of likeso afraid of rejection that that keeps them from picking up the phone. Irarely see that. It's more people aren't confident in what they're going to saybecause they put the focus of the cold call on mastering the pitch. Yes, earlier what you said, ray was we have a solution that can helpmake go that go away. That's your value prop. It's pretty simple.You talk about the problem, we can help make that go away. It'snot well, you know, we help so and so do this and wecan drive oury by this percentage of we worked with you. That's not avery good value, product value prop is here's what people like you were tryingto accomplish right now and stuff that gets in their way, and we canhelp with that. The coll cause not the time to dig into anything elsebesides that. Leave a cliffhanger at the end. So I believe one hundredpercent in nineteen, well, probably ninety nine percent of scenarios, that it'sthe talk track in the messaging and that it's not customer centric and the persondoesn't really feel like they know who they're talking to. Yeah, now it'sthe it's the right on something you'll compatly right. I think the coverdictance isyou have a small percentage of people are just don't like it, but trythe job and think that they may would have been great and then try andjust don't like but that's probably about the introval. In fact, we've seensome introval being very successful at the job because they can put the mask on, you know, when you would not be in the food. But love. I love your response about the symptom. I love the fashion is that it'snot to cuse and what do we do about it? But which needto do? You to equip them with confidence and they quit them with confidenceis making sure that they can. They own dost on the why they canall go on the way them said, the wet the when they onders somefullida pitch. I remember being an DA having to say something. When Istarted, I had no idea what I was talking about. Literally no idea. The benefits set trying to sell the solution. I won't mention that anyeven if he was like many, many million years ago. But it wasquite a big company and I was speaking about one of the networking solution andI was speaking about nuds and this and that. Absolutely no idea what Iwas talking about, what they were doing, how it walks. But there wasto scale to USK because everybody around you was speaking about it like fluently. So if I ask, I'm very so stupid and I think that's that'salso but that was on me. I think that's on you when you stopto think that, if you have the question, you have to stupid.No, I don't do it anymore. I've got a bit of a status. If there is an acronym that they don't know the sound, trust me, I would just say what is it and I'd be curious about it.But when you stop. It's difficult to ask, but surely when everybody aroundyou like use that sort of job and and use it friendly. So Iagree with you. I've got one last question for you, because we gettingto the end of the of the recording time, unfortunately. What do youthink we can do, you know, industry, to kind of change thebet reputation of cold cutting? Man, I think it first, as salesleaders, we need to arm our reps with the information that they need,or that starts is educating them on who...

...their prospectings you. So there needsto be very clear. Hey, here's the persona, here's what they careabout, here's the problems they're having, here's how we can help, here'srecordings of US doing customer interviews for you to listen to. You need tohelp them build empathy for the people that they're reaching out to so we canshortcut that process. That's good. The next thing that we need to dois really focus on how can we arm the person in a way to wherethey have the ability to not wing it necessarily, but go into a conversationand know that that could go on a lot of different way is and theyhave talking points and things that they can bring up. If you think abouthow you approach any other conversation in your life, you know you don't justlike talk to your friends or family. When you're meeting people on public youdon't know what the end outcome of that conversation is going to be. You'retotally fine with just being in the moment and seeing where it goes. Whywouldn't you approach a cold call like that? You know kind of what you wantto accomplish, but also be open to the fact that it might notmake sense to settle meeting. You know what I mean. So I thinkthat doing those two things and making it more buyer centric and customer centric andreally talking to the customer, what we need to do as an industry isif we make the cold call a better experience for prospects, people won't hategetting cold calls so much either. Yeah, but persons. In term of thereframing and the conversation, one thing that we did a long time ago. We had one personet was telling us about basically wanted to quit it.That doesn't was reads you league good, but I expectation for themselves, ifyou will. Okay, so out of five conversation or ten conversation. Ithink they are coming without seeing one meetings with the prospect and the way werefraind that folems. So we look, what's your communion? I can't rememberthe exact number, but let's put it hundred dollars. Pull meeting, okay, we sell. Okay. Well, if you need to have tend conversationto get one meeting, that mean that every single time someone reject you,you are making ten dollars. It's fantastic, you know, because you get ninerejection to get to a meeting and that's when you get your undred dollars. So when you get someone rejecting you, technically is pretty much tender thousand Rcook at. This is a good news. Refrain it into something positive. Not everybody will say yes you. It's the completely normal that people don'tsay yes to you. But the game but secular, was just like upsetbecause not everybody was saying this yesterday and and and it's quite an interesting towardsor reframe the thing in a positive way. So, Jason, if anyone wantsto speak to you, follow up on that conversation or, more importantly, engage with peaceful prospecting. Was the best way to get rid of you. Our website plus full prospectingcom. So you're going to find a couple things. So if you're listening this and you're like hey, I just want freestaff, yeah, that's all good. We got a podcast there. Wehave guides on the reply method, how a structure called email, we gotvideo guides, all kinds of like just tons of free stuff there. Ifyou're a rerap looking for some help, we have something called outbound squad.It's a killer community of wraps that are badasses at their companies and it's gotcoaching, community training content, all that kind of stuff. And we workwith companies as well too. So if you're looking for help implementing you knowthis approach with your Sdr read our team or your as potentially we're able tohelp there too. So blisful PROSPECTINGCOM's the best way to check us out.That's great. Well, science to getting Jason. He was absolutely drop toa good conversation with you today. Yeah, you too. Thanks for having meon. You've been listening to be to be read the new acceleration.To ensure that you never miss an episode, subscribe to the show in your favoritepodcast player. Thank you. So much for listening until next time.

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