B2B Revenue Acceleration
B2B Revenue Acceleration

Episode · 8 months ago

111: Why People Hate Cold Calls w/ Jason Bay

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

SDRs talk about how hard it is to be rejected when cold calling — and it is.

But it’s also hard for the person on the other end of the phone to reject. Reps need to make the conversation about the person that they’re cold calling both to overcome call reluctance and to change cold calling’s bad reputation.

In this episode, we interview Jason Bay , Chief Prospecting Officer at Blissful Prospecting , about why people hate cold calls so much and what SDRs can do about it.

We discussed why starting a conversation is the whole point of cold calling, the success of permission-based openers, avoiding prospecting narcissism with customer-centricity, and what sales leaders (and SDRs) can do to combat call reluctance.

Check out this related episode: Episode 110 w/ Sam Nelson, “Ramping Up SDRs: The First 90 Days”

To hear this interview and many more like it, subscribe to The B2B Revenue Acceleration Podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or our website.

The whole point of making a cold call, sending a called the email, doing out the whole point is to start conversations and if we can focus more on getting the person to reply to an email or get them to talk to us, so we can get past the first thirty seconds of a cold call, there's less pressure on you. As a wrap. You were listening to be to be revenue acceleration, a podcast dedicated to helping software executive stay on the cutting edge of sales and marketing in their industry. Let's get into the show. Hi, welcome to be to be a revenue acceleration. My name is Ohayamoutier and I'm here today with Jason Bay, Chief Prospecting Officer, at least full prospecting. I was it going today? Jason? Right, it's going good. Man. We were talking about beer before this, so you got me like. I'm ready for it, Dude. It's a Friday for the people listening to us is it's five pm for me in London. It's nine am from Jason, I believe on the West Coast. And Yeah, we just were just speaking about bills, because this is what you've got to do on Friday. We walk five days so it's to get a few bars on Friday. I guess that's the D W T right exactly. Ye Have you grind all a week to get to that Friday and just shut it off. Hopefully, if you're listening to see, you get a chance to shut it off over the weekend. And as I was saying to you, Jason, actually I came across just through a pot get. There was reasoning and I think you did that less show with John Burrows and you five. The first time I listen to your voice I was having a few girls myself on Holy Day, relaxing on my son bed, listening to you and John Kicking some great stuff around, cool cutting and says and be DAS and stuff. I think. Well, we were thinking around bills. The next thing we beetween if if we need to make sure it's somewhere other is bills. Absolutely so today we'll speak about the Turpy at I you know you absolutely love, which is cool. Cool. Why do people ate them? But before we get into the topic and get into the conversation, would you mind, Jason, telling us a little bit more about shall self and the company you represent, place food prospecting. Yeah, so the way that I got into sales was two thousand and eight. I was a freshman. We call it college here, you guys call it university, and I was going to be a friends of scientist. That's what I wanted to do, is work, and I laughed getting the law enforcement that sort of thing. And I sort of got into sales accidentally, like most people do. And I work for a company where they teach university students how to run a house painting business. And what I didn't know in that job is that when I started that I would be going door to door. So I my first sales experience was going door to door. The average paint job was around three to five thousand dollars us, so is a decent purchase. But I hired a bunch of my friends to go out and go like door knocking for me right and I learned a lot of really interesting things during that time that I think really applied a to business, to business as well, and one of them was I thought that if I focused on the houses that needed painting that I was going to have a lot of success in those neighborhoods of eight or nine out of every ten houses had peeling pain on it. But what I found out is that just because someone needs something doesn't mean that they want it or can afford it, you know, which I think is a really important lesson and B to be because we have so much more data right we can research a company, look at the people and just because someone needs your product or service doesn't mean that they want it or have budget for it, you know. So we got to be a little more we can get into that a little bit more, I guess, intentional about how we target those companies. The other thing that I learned to this is another really important lesson, especially for cold calling, is that when I would talk to people at the door and it'd say hey, Ray, you know thice to meet you me. I love to like paint your house. You were painting a bunch of houses is summer. No one was interested in talking to me about that. But if instead I focused on the free estimate and the peeling paint that I noticed up on the face ship boards up there, people were a lot more receptive to talking to me when they didn't feel like I was trying to sell them the very first time that I meet them again. How does that relate to be to be well, a lot of times when we're cold calling. What makes it really tough is if we start talking about our product or service. That's a sales conversation and we have to separate those two. Prospecting the whole point of making a...

...cold call, sending our cold email, doing outbound, the whole point is to start conversations and if we can focus more on getting the person to reply to an email or get them to talk to us so we can get past the first thirty seconds of a cold call, there's less pressure on you as a wrap because you're just trying to get the other person to talk. If they don't get into a conversation with either, are never going to take a meeting right. So I learned that as a nineteen year old kid with braces. They are selling house spinning services. In the way I got into what we do. It post for prospecting was in two thousand and thirteen. I left that company. I work with him for a long time as a sales manager of EP of sales and then spend some time in their marketing department. I really wanted to help other companies figure out this outbound thing and formerly with possible prospect and we've been in business two thousand and seventeen working with professional services companies and SASS companies, helping them kind of remove the sack from outbound by doing it in a more customer centric way. That makes sense that. I love the fact that you started by don't to doll selling. This is what got me started in the space. I mean I was technically over qualified to be Bediz. Yeah, got me engineering degree and then I went to a business school, but I was sent to England to learn English by your company that that was working for in Paris, and then the units that I was working for, God moved some of the places in the world, so I couldn't not go back for that job. So I was kind of free and I was reading a lot of biography of super successful people, like CEOS and stuff like that. But then, and most of them said, look Dall to door selling, Tailey marketing, recruitment, like, if you start your Cara in that, enjoy it and are good at it, that's what made us the Seeo that that makes some that that makes people. So I just look to myself, you know what, I'm just going to do that for six months, like military service. I want to do it like a good can see if I'm good at it. See from joy, get that experience, also working in the U K and stuff like that, and yeah, I am now. I do appreciate what you are saying about foster of WHO getting into it. You get into it without too much training and, particularly when I started at young get much training. In fact, Linkedin was not really even the source back then. You had to go through the euro pages and stuff. But then you find no way and every single thing you find something that works. It's like when you play offer you are not really good, you just remember the good shot and that's what makes you come back the next day. You just that. There is a sort of rush every single time you find a new strategy on new tactic and the dough to do I think is great. But anyway, let's go into the conversation. But I love your background. So coldcutting is a bit of a dirty town right. Nobody likes to speak about it, but I personally believe, and I think you know I was reading some of the report from the bridge group, they would bag that up and we know it's probably one of the most efficient way to create pipeline. must more efficient than email. Of course there is lots of us. Are Techniques like events and intent marketing and your website and lots of great stuff, but I would like to get your sorts on cold cutting is an effective way to drive pipeline? Yeah, absolutely. The data speaks for itself. I Love Bridge Group and all the stuff that they do, but I think you get a step back and think about a couple things in terms of so I call this prospecting narcissism. Right, you brought this up where we talked about our products or service, and that's really a symptom of the approach being about what we want from the prospect as sales people. And when we approach it that way, we don't think about what the exper dances like on the receiving end of a call, of an email, etc. So what we need to think about is how, what experience are we creating for the person on the receiving end of this? So if we were thinking user experience, the same thing that a product team would think about when they create outreach or sales loft or HBO or an Apple Product Whatever. They put themselves in the shoes of the people using it. So if you put yourselves in the shoes of the prospect, what do we know about People's communication preferences. Well, some people like emails, some people like phones, some people like social some people like to text. You don't know what that is for your buyer. So if you only rely on email, which that would work on me, by the way, I'm not going to ever pick up a...

...cold call. I just don't. I don't have time for it. I have my phone is on, do not disturb most of the day. I don't want that inbound kind of stuff. But you know what, a lot of people would much prefer a phone call. They're like, it's way quicker for them. That's if they don't know what those preferences are. So that's that's really the big reason for the phone is you're eating people in a channel that they might prefer. The other thing, too, is, and what that bridge group study found, in a lot of other very similar studies find, is that any prospect you talk to these days, ask him how many cold calls that they get versus how many cold emails, and it's literally the ratio is like hundreds of cold emails to maybe a few half a dozen calls. People are not picking up the phone right now because they see studies. Ray Are they not studies. They see influencers on linkedin post stuff like cold callings at so sells. People like, Oh, maybe I shouldn't call people anymore. Oh, you know, they said not to call on Mondays or Fridays because people are busy on Mondays and Fridays. You know, they're getting ready to drink beers or whatever right so people don't call. The man is in Fridays and you it's Friday right now, at nine o'clock in the morning, twelve pm eastern time, and I have students in our outpound squad that they make cold calls on Friday afternoons and that's when they get most of their meetings because no one's calling people. That's what you got to think about is let's look at what the data says, and that's let's also try to do what other reps are not doing. Reps are not calling, they're not calling on Mondays and Fridays, they're not calling people first thing in the morning. Do the things that people aren't doing. I hundred person love what you just said. As a rat myself, I've always been before. I kind of more responsibilities. When I had less responsibilities, I used to leave everything to the last minutes. I'm going on a trip to bally for three weeks. I'M gonna pack my bike literally salty news before the plane. I'll just like that kind of don't care. I do it. And Friday was my best prospecting day, or my friends. In fact I was in the UK. So people would go to the pub at lunch time. They won't come back until two or three, and of course that a few be also, everybody goes reporting in the afternoon. Right I'm reporting two clients have got courdes you want to go hunting when no one else is ending. And also, I think the prospect probably don't want to speak to you too much between, as you said, during the day because, let's say you've got your student squad that you've got to deal with. So from nine am you speaking to me right now? Someone trying to call you won't get you. You are busy. You know your time between nine to twelve is busy. Your time between twelve one thirty is your lunch time. So you made with at your desk or you may catch up. May still been meeting and every or up until the red the end of the day, you should be in meetings. If you are an exact right, exact. Are Not just waiting for the foot to ring down. That sells people. Okay, so you've got to catch them when they are at that their desk, but not with someone on a video conference or someone in front of them. And that's early in the morning, later in the day, it's Friday afternoon, it could be Sunday, you know, sending a few emails on Sunday evening. Just catch training to get a response from people, because you won't call them on the mobile ONS and deys. It's too keen, I guess, but I think we've seen so many as d are focusing the prospecting time during those hours. There was a book called the fanatical prospective. He was speaking about the golden hours. Right, you've got to pick your golden hours, get prepared for them, prepare your list, prepare your stuff and go boom boom, boom, boom boom during those golden hours. A hundred percent agree with you, and also on the medium, I think you are right. I'm a fun person. You send me an email, I don't really want to read it, but if you call me, and it's maybe because of my industry and what I do, I will always give you a chance if it's a recruit or calling me and say hey, I want to do your recruitment. I'm already equipped. So how do you think you are different? Give me the stories and what you think you are different from what they already having place. Will tell me to stripping that under being property. And you know what, most of the time is then giving up on me, not me giving up on running. If they don't know what you're saying, they don't know what to say because they've not sought about me before cutting me. So that's why I would like to get you maybe with the next question, do you think, because I think I think that's one important thing. you open a cool email or...

...you can of GEF time to a cool, cool for Real Evans. Right. So how would do you get the rid Evans quickly? I would you get to it's in the best possible ways, so then people can give you is all response of a bit of that time. Yeah, there's a couple ways you can think about this and I like to look at things in framework. So if we kind of step back a little bit, let's talk about why it's important to be relevant. In the first way, I chunk the cold call together as you have your intro. That's the first part of the call. It's the first thirty seconds. The only goal of that is to get to the next part, which is the hook. The Hook could be one to five minutes long. This is where you get to ask maybe two or three questions. You get to figure out if it makes sense to do the next stage close and to get a meeting so and then intro. What you need to do is get the person's attention and get them like leaning in so that you can ask them questions and get a conversation started. The hardest part with a cold call is getting like momentum, and momentum in the call dies when someone like you asked a question and they don't know the answer to her they weren't prepared to answer it, or the person gives an objection. Like you want to increase the momentum, and the way that you do that is by adding something relevant. There's a lot of different flavors of relevant events, so I think we should talk about that. So I work with a company. I can't mention the specific name of the company, but what they do is they help provide automated welding solutions for large manufacturers. So what's going on with manufacturers right now? We could look on a really, really high level and we could say there's a huge labor shortage right now. So the American Welding Society came out with this big piece on the demand for welders is growing by four percent every year, but the supply of welders is decreasing by seven percent. So there's this huge gap and all these companies are really worried three, five, ten years from now, how are they going to find qualified people for these positions when there are fewer and fewer and fewer of them and it's taking longer to hire? That's something that's going to be relevant for every manufacturer. So we have stuff that's like more industry related, that's very up in the clouds, and then we can also zoom in and look at stuff that's very specific for that company. They're hiring welders interesting they create products that we could help them automate that traditionally they might have a tough time automating. So when I go to actually cold call, I want to mention some of that stuff in the intro and there's a couple different ways that you can do that. About but I'm a really big fan of removing the surprise, introducing myself, doing a quick permission based opener and then telling them the reason for my call. So Hey, Ray Jason, with postful prospecting here. I know I probably catch in the middle of something, but I did some research. I notice you're hiring welders right now and I wanted to ask you something about that. Do you get a minute for me to tell you the reason why I'm calling? You can let me if you want to keep chatting. So very upfront, contract sandler. You know kind of say I love permission based openers and I can drop something that's relevant and that it's going to grab your attention. You're hiring waders. Oh cool, that's going to be something the VP of operations their personas thinking about. Nine Times out of ten, if you do this properly, a person says yeah, go ahead. What do you got are they might ask you a question. If they're like you read, they might be like okay, well, how can you help me with that? I would actually did you ask your question first and come to see what you've got to say? I think it's two thing that I want to pick up from what you just say so. First of all, when I was doing the job, I was probably not choosing the permission days open. Now you know I would just go straight because my way of doing was if I picked someone, I would convince myself I would be like a like a boxer, like an MMA guy. If, if I'm going on McGregor, I may, you made. They don't want to be in right now because he's losing all these fight, let's say, blows, fights are out, or you guys, you lost five out of six and cricket to break his glams as well. Pull a guy by still making a lot of money, much more than you, and I know that's friend, but let's tell you, you are a fight all right. I would always preple myself for the fight. I would look at the prospect. I will research the person down, try to see if I gon Gondall in team. Do they like a specific football team or you know? But I will not try to be boring. You know, you don't get people and say, Hey,...

...you've been to such a such a university or a yeah, I don't that you support the team of you seeing what they've done at the weekend. But I will try to get an element of making myself hundred percent show that if I grub that day on the foot lady, on the food, I've got something of values deliv on them. I know it's some value and if they don't listen to me or you won't say yes to me, is kind of dollous. That's kind of how I was pretty much to it right. And you think about permission based, so tell me a bit more about how do you see permission based working well for you? Way Do you think it's walking better? Yeah, and if someone is listening to this and they don't use a permission based opener, it works fine for them. I'm all for that too. I'm all for what works. The reason why I like the permission based openers for two reasons. One, it allows the prospect to opt in. It's a bit of a pattern and interrupting that. They're not used to usually hearing that. Most of the time what I'll get is like yeah, sure, go ahead, or hey, never heard that one before, right, depending on the industry that you call. The second thing it kind of gives you a bit of a mental break as a wrap and gives you a bit of a mental one where the person's like yeah, go ahead, they're giving you the stage. They're saying yeah, tell me why you're calling. I know that I got their attention for another ten or fifteen seconds. So nine times out of ten no one when I make calls. I can't remember the last time someone said now to that, but nine times out of ten you should have a ninety percent effective rate with the person saying yeah, go ahead. And I guess once you ask the first question, then you can pretty much go into the nicks scenario when you've got your first on. So you can you can rule out to a bit more spasy thing else us, you know, grow casting something a little bit larger if you are just to go first. So that makes sense. Next question for you. Jason is wrong. Read Evans, I think. I love what you've got to say about the manufacturing industry in what you're doing for your clients. That that's brilliant. But obviously you guys are smart and do that for leading. Okay, for the SDLS that are listening to us right. So you are, is honest. The other work for outreach all sends false all service now and a manual lacky. You've got yourselves playbook. You've got lots of supports. You've got lots of content, lots of training, people, support and stuff. or You could be honesty in the boots truck company, you know, pre Serri a, or sorry a, figuring out the stuff, figuring out the ICP. If you honest, DA, what are the resources you can get or you can get to to become relevant? I would you go about being relevant. If you don't have the support of someone like you or a bus at well, that can give you a little bit. You know, if you are a new guys, a new functioning the company, well, do you get it? In Food, the Internet? It's all over the place for free, most of it. So the welding stuff, that was a third party called the American Welding Society. That's not a resource that my client created. That's just out there in in the as you know, in the Internet, free for them to grab. So what I would think about is, and again, the relevance that you can add a stuff that's more bigger industry related, and then you also want to find stuff specific to them too. So what you want to think about is a couple of things. So, if we're making it relevant for the prospect I want to look at three kind of main pockets. What do they educate their customers about? This is more of a BDB thing if you're reaching out to a be tob business versus a B Toc consumer. So what do they educate their customers about? What do they brag about? So what are the accomplishments on their website? What do they really like? So if we're using another company I work with sells the CIM solution into higher education. So they sell into universities and colleges and trade schools and that sort of stuff. Well, the CRM will help them provide a better experience to the students that want to go to their university. So what are these universities Brag about? How awesome their programs are, how successful their students are after they graduate. Their sharing stories like that, right. So what do they brag about? Those are things that I can loop in, right. And then the other thing that you want to think about is where the investing? So that's the hiring, that's the new product lines, the new service lines, that the things that mergers acquisitions, all of that kind of stuff. All of that's available to you as a Rep. you just need to figure out what are the three to five things that I...

...find most common and the companies that are reach out to. So if you take ten sample accounts, this will take a little bit longer when you do this the first time, but try to find the three to five things that you'll find that you find it every single account. Is it people that are hiring? Is it they're posting about students doing something really well? Is it that you sell a solution that helps with customer support and you look to see if they have chat on their website or not? Whatever it is, this is how you do personalization or relevance at scale. Find the patterns, so you could look for the same exact things every time. That's how you get the kind of stuff that's like specific to the company. To get the stuff that's more up here, the industry type stuff, what I would look for is a couple things. So get on Google and look for top podcast in Sary, top conferences, publications, trade shows. Look specifically with conferences, a really good one to look at the speaker list. Who are the influencers in that industry that are putting out the content? Bridge Group is an example of that. Bridge Group is an influential company in our industry that people they compete against use their data. Like I've competed against them ideals before. I use their data when I sell, though. kind of cool for them, right. It's branding for them. But like there that resort, those resources all over the place. So even if your company has zero content, you can still go find the stuff. It's all out there for up for graps. I think it's from myself and the do all do it again back in the day. I've found the account manager that that was walking with you. Sets. People are being very useful as well. You know, sometimes you get trained by some of them, maybe like a Product Marketing Pussa. No, basically someone neve all sort of stuff before, but they tell you ought to say it right and then you still speaking with the set. As guy say you know what you got out of do a bowl with it. You know, Ryo city a bit Fazzo and try to go stree point. You know it's no point using the stuff is crap. What you've got to do is this is the really sue. We sort of that issue. Is the usual that the guys wants to solve in the in Hcube, but quite frankly, that's really what people care about and I think they kind of give you that sort of pulse of what's opening in the market and what people responds well too. And also sometimes, you know, one of the feat don't we encourage our guys do is to use prospect. You know prospect. I just close the down yours and I'm not interested. It's what look, just please satisfy my intelligence. What is it that you know what would have done better? And sometimes you know, you may have one out of ten that actually give you the pointer. It happens to us on a program where we are leading with artificial intelligence machine learning, where the quick as a doing the stuff and blah blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, Blah Blah, and what we are solving. Back then, what the solution was solving was using machine learning and at artificial intelligence to make sense of lots of security labs so you can get to resolution or cyber attack quicker. Okay, and one of the CIAS, or chief information security officer, it was a prospective clients, said to one of my guy was like look, I mean, I'm not going through anyone. I think my peach is a kill pitch, but you days just get me like and just know what's wrong. I spoke to ten people today. Is it? Me? Tell me, and I think it was just having a bad day that guy open up and say no, you just focus on the wrong issue here. Right our problem is a shortage of security analy is coming out of school. A good security analyst is someone that will be six months, nay months, in Your Business, a Prim we've got that within six months get possed by someone else and then becaust. A lot of me to bring a new one and there is a lot of turnover and it's just difficult to have a full team. And yes, artificial intelligence and machine learning is brilliant, but we still need to have a human to make a final decision. And as the issue, we've got the issue. We've got some telling enough of those people and the security althers are everywhere, but we don't deal with them and all that sort of great stuff and we completely change the approach. And we spoke about the hi issue. And when you speak about the hi issue and you start potentially with a with a permission based opener, and you speak to a CIS or with not...

...an ed of HS. Hey, I want you to speak to you about recruitment. Do you have a minute and there is one another right persons of recruitment in your function. And then straight or you strike a cover like quest that they will you want and they let you speak. And so where there is a short age, and by the way, I've been on on selves, navigator, and I can see that in your team you on the ton of of around thirty percent of the over the last couple of years and I think that's got to be painful. Also, looking at glass door in why you are based in Chicago, and again see at the average price of those guys, around K dollars and another to recruit. I will charge you twenty every time you find one. So the cost of just changing those gays consistantly is super high. Our solution could help you to retain these people for longer and remove that headache. You want to speak about it and now we go about it and people like yes, and literally we went from Zero Conversion to ninety percent conversion. So it's really funny or relevance work. And sometimes you know a prospector tells you free still clear what you should have done right, but because we don't ask them what we are doing wrong and what we should do right, you never realize it. I love that story. So it's using your prospects for feedback. I think as a str and bede are a lot of times with the companies I'm working with right now, our account executives. So I'm working with the AEAS to help them with prospecting. And you know it's really interesting, is because they see the sales process and they do discovery. There are so many nuggets like the one you just shared right now that would come out and discovery if you did good discovery. And a lot of times what I see is this barrier between a's in the STR team where they aren't sharing that information. Use what you learn in the sales motion to inform the outbound motion, because you get that stuff. And if you're an str video, get your a to record the calls if they're not, so that you can listen to them. Yeah, all of the informations right there. I think it's the it's often the mee seeing Lincoln, and this is why lots of people struggle with the account base campaign. Is that you know? So I can't bease. You the information to flu there and you need to have that relationship and it's we do encourage you all. Guys. I mean we I know it sounds a bit cliche because everybody he wants funds, but you know what we say to our videos. You know team and is the I know teams. We want you, i. a, to be a fun we want them to be a fund, not just like you wanted to be a fun of you right, if you're manager, can get an email from your a onceonone saying that you're absolutely extraordinary, and then I sat to operatix. We with and issue with you. Technically, well, we don't go that far, but if you build that relationship, you know this is that's far life. You know, an a an as right mindset. That's got to good video. I mean this is like having a rough diamon in your back pockets. You want to share. Is that guy you want to you know it's you know, a difficulty is for those giates to do the job. If you've done it yourself and you want to empower them, you want to you want to make sure that they are being no show, then often do. Relationship goes a long way. So even in the future they could use this relationship for their own development. Right. But coming back to cold cooling, because we can get carried away I think you and I ask pasionate about all the tactics and things and all that, and and I love the topic of Fred Events. I think is we could probably have a whole conversation about that. But ways that you feeled by your eight quid coding all have me there's a lot of reasons. I think that, just like anything else that you're resistant to, the involves other people. If the experience is not a good one for the other person, you're gonna not like doing that right. So we've already kind of addressed that part that we need to think about what the experience is like for the prospect. I think the other part two is if we don't come in with a talk track and a good plan of what we're going to talk about and feel confident in that. That's where the other part of Paul reluctance comes from, and I think you have to really sit in the mind of the person that you're reaching out to. And a lot of people talk about how hard it is to be rejected, but you know it's also really hard for people is rejecting other people. I...

...don't know about you, Ray, I don't feel good rejecting other people. Doesn't feel good for me when someone reaches out at and I have to tell them to stop reaching out to me. I don't like doing that. Doesn't make me feel good. In most prospects are not psychopaths, so they don't like rejecting people either. So you have to do this in a way where it's very easy for people to say no to you. So you can't need the meeting. But it really comes down to coming in and being prepped. So if you know that what you're going to say. So one thing I want to add to that permission based opener at the beginnings, when the person says yes, the very first thing that you need to do. I'm a really big fan of dropping in priorities. So I drop in specifically what I'm hearing people like them focused on right now. So I immediately make the conversation about you. Ray. So for using that welding automation solution. It would sound something like this and we just wor send this yesterday, so this might not be totally smooth yet. So raised like yeah, totally, why you're reaching out. Well, Hey, ry, like I said, I noticed that you're hiring welders right now and when I talk to VP's of operations right now. They're telling me that they want to accomplish a couple things. One is that they're hiring welders right now, but what's a really big issue in getting in the way of that is the labor shortage. So they're having trouble keeping good qualified welders around and it's taking months to fill those positions. To what we hear them talking about is this focus around maximize us in efficiency of how they're handling automation right now. So they're either in a position where they've tried automation and hasn't really worked, or they're doing it but there's kind of these like high mix, low volume products that they haven't been able to figure out how to automant. I'm really curious which one of those two things is stop of mine for you right now. I've thrown in a lot of keywords. They're automation, Welder's labor shortage, high mix, low volume. This is what they talked about a lot. This is in their language. No long ways use the Juggon and also what I like, in which you just went through, is hey, this is what I'm mirroring from those of people like you that I'm speaking with I know, I mean that group. I'm part of your tribe, you know, and you mean the two of them like I'm speaking to lots of people like you. So you can have a conversation with me. I need to be make sure that you are good after El. So if they get going, you know you can, you can, you can follow the flow right, and then you're right. Using these buzz words. This was that. You know, every single time they drop, you know that you're scoring your point the kinking. That's great, but again, you know it's coming to the redevance is, how do you find that? You go and speak to existing clients about that. You good, probably a existing clients. How did you come so? You said that you you can have built that yesterday, right. So you have to get that information from someone. I know the Internet is a big thing, but did you actually get it from the Internet? Getting from your clients, getting from their clients the best places, your prospects. So what we did together, and what I'm training them on how to do, is so I'm not just doing this for them, I'm training them on how to figure this out. So it's a little bit about but the very first thing that we did is listen to calls with the account executives and they're in Gong. So what you can do? I mean all the calls are transcribed. I know word for word. At the very beginning of the called, prospects will say, yeah, we're really struggling with this right now. Boom. I want to know exactly, word for word, exactly what they say. There's patterns across all of them. I interviewed a couple of their count executives. That's where I got most of it, and then the other parts too, is just with the SDR team that I'm working with. Is Hey, what do you hear a lot of people talking about when you make cold calls, when they respond to your cold emails? What do they respond with? Came up yesterday. There was eight or nine key words that they keep hearing coming up in the AE meetings, the discovery calls, in the demos that you keep hearing and cold calls they keep hearing in emails. And it's pretty easy to build a talk track if you just use the information and you think about what are my prospects sharing? That's top of mine for them. That also intersects. If you look at a ven diagram. That also intersects with how we help. So the informations there and as an SDR, you can't use the excuse that all we don't recorder, we don't use Gong, we don't use course, will get your ae to record the call on zoom. It's free for them to do that in on the call, to sit in on a couple of...

Demos. Do something right. But the best information you're going to get us from actual prospects. You can get online and look at all the other kind of stuff and get some trends, but what prospects are actually sharing is going to be way more important. One other thing real quick to I think that's underrated is customer success in anyone who's delivering the product or service. So when they do these on boarding calls and they help the customer their stuff, that comes up in those calls to so talk to your delivery team or your customer success team. What are people coming to us? What problem are they coming to US trying to solve? How do we help that? What value do we get? All the informations right there. You also mentioned coridictants. It's funny because we was speaking audio this week. We's some themes from outreach but coridictants as one of the lesue for, you know, bdls, to move all a new rebocuit people as kind of the first thing that people are foot off from. You know, the courridic does if it's don't like cutting. Do you believe that that this is the main fact off is dl not being successful corridictants? Well, I think all reluctance is a symptom of them not having a good talk track and feeling comfortable, like they know the person. Yes, the call reluctance, I think, is a symptom. I rarely see people that are afraid of like so afraid of rejection that that keeps them from picking up the phone. I rarely see that. It's more people aren't confident in what they're going to say because they put the focus of the cold call on mastering the pitch. Yes, earlier what you said, ray was we have a solution that can help make go that go away. That's your value prop. It's pretty simple. You talk about the problem, we can help make that go away. It's not well, you know, we help so and so do this and we can drive oury by this percentage of we worked with you. That's not a very good value, product value prop is here's what people like you were trying to accomplish right now and stuff that gets in their way, and we can help with that. The coll cause not the time to dig into anything else besides that. Leave a cliffhanger at the end. So I believe one hundred percent in nineteen, well, probably ninety nine percent of scenarios, that it's the talk track in the messaging and that it's not customer centric and the person doesn't really feel like they know who they're talking to. Yeah, now it's the it's the right on something you'll compatly right. I think the coverdictance is you have a small percentage of people are just don't like it, but try the job and think that they may would have been great and then try and just don't like but that's probably about the introval. In fact, we've seen some introval being very successful at the job because they can put the mask on, you know, when you would not be in the food. But love. I love your response about the symptom. I love the fashion is that it's not to cuse and what do we do about it? But which need to do? You to equip them with confidence and they quit them with confidence is making sure that they can. They own dost on the why they can all go on the way them said, the wet the when they onders some fullida pitch. I remember being an DA having to say something. When I started, I had no idea what I was talking about. Literally no idea. The benefits set trying to sell the solution. I won't mention that any even if he was like many, many million years ago. But it was quite a big company and I was speaking about one of the networking solution and I was speaking about nuds and this and that. Absolutely no idea what I was talking about, what they were doing, how it walks. But there was to scale to USK because everybody around you was speaking about it like fluently. So if I ask, I'm very so stupid and I think that's that's also but that was on me. I think that's on you when you stop to think that, if you have the question, you have to stupid. No, I don't do it anymore. I've got a bit of a status. If there is an acronym that they don't know the sound, trust me, I would just say what is it and I'd be curious about it. But when you stop. It's difficult to ask, but surely when everybody around you like use that sort of job and and use it friendly. So I agree with you. I've got one last question for you, because we getting to the end of the of the recording time, unfortunately. What do you think we can do, you know, industry, to kind of change the bet reputation of cold cutting? Man, I think it first, as sales leaders, we need to arm our reps with the information that they need, or that starts is educating them on who...

...their prospectings you. So there needs to be very clear. Hey, here's the persona, here's what they care about, here's the problems they're having, here's how we can help, here's recordings of US doing customer interviews for you to listen to. You need to help them build empathy for the people that they're reaching out to so we can shortcut that process. That's good. The next thing that we need to do is really focus on how can we arm the person in a way to where they have the ability to not wing it necessarily, but go into a conversation and know that that could go on a lot of different way is and they have talking points and things that they can bring up. If you think about how you approach any other conversation in your life, you know you don't just like talk to your friends or family. When you're meeting people on public you don't know what the end outcome of that conversation is going to be. You're totally fine with just being in the moment and seeing where it goes. Why wouldn't you approach a cold call like that? You know kind of what you want to accomplish, but also be open to the fact that it might not make sense to settle meeting. You know what I mean. So I think that doing those two things and making it more buyer centric and customer centric and really talking to the customer, what we need to do as an industry is if we make the cold call a better experience for prospects, people won't hate getting cold calls so much either. Yeah, but persons. In term of the reframing and the conversation, one thing that we did a long time ago. We had one personet was telling us about basically wanted to quit it. That doesn't was reads you league good, but I expectation for themselves, if you will. Okay, so out of five conversation or ten conversation. I think they are coming without seeing one meetings with the prospect and the way we refraind that folems. So we look, what's your communion? I can't remember the exact number, but let's put it hundred dollars. Pull meeting, okay, we sell. Okay. Well, if you need to have tend conversation to get one meeting, that mean that every single time someone reject you, you are making ten dollars. It's fantastic, you know, because you get nine rejection to get to a meeting and that's when you get your undred dollars. So when you get someone rejecting you, technically is pretty much tender thousand R cook at. This is a good news. Refrain it into something positive. Not everybody will say yes you. It's the completely normal that people don't say yes to you. But the game but secular, was just like upset because not everybody was saying this yesterday and and and it's quite an interesting towards or reframe the thing in a positive way. So, Jason, if anyone wants to speak to you, follow up on that conversation or, more importantly, engage with peaceful prospecting. Was the best way to get rid of you. Our website plus full prospectingcom. So you're going to find a couple things. So if you're listening this and you're like hey, I just want free staff, yeah, that's all good. We got a podcast there. We have guides on the reply method, how a structure called email, we got video guides, all kinds of like just tons of free stuff there. If you're a rerap looking for some help, we have something called outbound squad. It's a killer community of wraps that are badasses at their companies and it's got coaching, community training content, all that kind of stuff. And we work with companies as well too. So if you're looking for help implementing you know this approach with your Sdr read our team or your as potentially we're able to help there too. So blisful PROSPECTINGCOM's the best way to check us out. That's great. Well, science to getting Jason. He was absolutely drop to a good conversation with you today. Yeah, you too. Thanks for having me on. You've been listening to be to be read the new acceleration. To ensure that you never miss an episode, subscribe to the show in your favorite podcast player. Thank you. So much for listening until next time.

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