B2B Revenue Acceleration
B2B Revenue Acceleration

Episode · 3 months ago

122: Email Prospecting the Right Way w/ Stephen Harlow

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Prospecting email is not designed to get somebody to buy your service or product.

It’s a personalized one-to-one message that does one thing: it shows how you think you can help that business.

In this episode, we speak with Stephen Harlow, Chief Sales Officer at Sopro, about his winning email marketing strategy with a 15% response rate.

Join us as we discuss about email marketing’s goal to start conversations, how to write a short email without fluff but with personalization, the relationship between email and LinkedIn, and optimizing email timing and frequency

Check out these resources we mentioned during the podcast:

The State of Prospecting by Sopro

To hear this interview and many more like it, subscribe to The B2B Revenue Acceleration Podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or our website.

Listening on a desktop & can’t see the links? Just search for B2B Revenue Acceleration in your favorite podcast player.

If you get half the people open your emails, if fifteen percent of the people who got sent an email open, that's a hundred and fifty. Applies our a thousand people. You were listening to be the B Revenue Acceleration, a podcast dedicated helping software executive stay on the cutting edge of sales and marketing in their industry. Let's give him the show. Hi, welcome to be to be a revenue acceleration. My name is on Yamtier and I'm here today with Steve Harlow, chief sends officer at so pro. Are You doing today? Stiff, very well, thanks right, thanks to having me on. Yeah, so that's what pleasure. So today we will be speaking about how to create successful email marketing compaigns and the benefits of doing so. I said to you in the preparation of this discipis of the I'm very much shooting forward to is because I think a lot of people associate emails with an old technique, but we know it's emails can be an absolute killer to get success. So hopefully today you shall some tips and get some people to wake up to the fact that's email marketing is not dead. But if it's, doesn't properly can actually be successful at a very, very, very small expense. So yeah, before we get started, would you mind just giving us a little bit of background as to who you are yourself, Steve, and also the company, your prison so pro sure, I mean the company backgrounds and stories a little more interesting the my own main personally, I fell into sales after doing a degree. It was in, I say, and I thought right, I want to get out in there, right at the big wide world of work. Saw A job advert very ambiguous about certain amount of earnings or just go and find out what that's about. Out and ended up being a field sales representative, saving businesses money on their telecom bills. So completely different to what I studied. However, got the bug for sales and have been in a variety of roles, from seven telecoms, been in a couple of recruitment firms as well. Soly more three hundred and sixty and it was about seven years ago that I was probably tested by my brother and his cofounder Ryan to just drop everything and join them in their new adventure. Being so pro and I mean start off with I was a little bit reserved and thought do I want to have the risk of earning nothing to go into a company like this. But though we know it's worth give it a go. You know I'm not. It's not like I couldn't go back into another ecroupment role with it if, if it went wrong. So the the whole idea of so pro is to take the prospecting side of the sals process and run it in the most effective efficient way possible. And although we originally started off prospecting Violinkedin, which is a very familiar now, when we started doing it it wasn't as prevalent, so you could get some some pretty good results, but it was already starting to head in a direction of being bit overused and people starting to not pay as much attention as we always have plans to move are contacting to email and if you look at a when people talk about email with if they feel it works or it doesn't work, at that point predominantly it was...

...another service that a digital marketing company may provide rather than somebody going we know email and we're going to run this activity the best way possible, which is all we found it. It's going right. We're going to focus on prospecting, finding the right people and doing the outreach to start those conversations, not spread it any further than that. Just become complete experts in that area. Now when you have a service like as, you're very fortunate because you can use it to build your own business. So we are our own customers. We run exactly the same service that we do for our clients for ourselves and that has enabled us to year on year, double in size. So two thousand and fifteen there were rob and Ryan. We've now got around about two hundred and fifty people in the business. Were split across two main officers, one being in Brighton here in the south of England and the other being in North Esta. We are this year going to expand and open up a US office which should be by the beginning of Q two. Hopefully it goes to plans. So yeah, we want to really start going out to that market a bit more and we look after and and so over whole range of of types of businesses. So all be to be. So I'm not going to touch on any BTC marketing activities, but be to B side where you're doing business development and outreach. There the sort of clients we work with and the only other requirements is that a company doesn't have a really niche target market, you know there's thirty companies they can work with and you don't going to prospect to them. And when we've had about fifteen to get the master right now, because it changes all the time. So we're probably about two thousand clients have started working with us since we begun, with about six hundred fifty active at the moment. Impressive. That's pretty good. Well, what I mean there is seemed really good from you. Today's like this tips and best practices. So you know, what would you say are the top tips and Best Practices to get the very best out of an email campaign? Basically, sure, so, when you when people think about anybo our email campaigns, there's a variety of types of where you could use it. You've got your newsletter block posts, lead nurturing type emails which you can run via your crm. The hub spot things like male chimp and they are useful because they keep your brand and hopefully your name in the mindset of the people you're trying to sell to. But what we look at are the emails that are there to start that initial conversation. So potentially going to businesses and people that have never heard of your organization to introduce and kickstart, hopefully, some sort of relationship. So we've got huge amount of of data over sending millions of emails over the last few years that have allowed us to not only get a feel for what to write, but also when you should send emails, the subject lines you should use, the length of an email, what types of people respond best,...

...who's your contact and read of a businesses. So I'll cover a few of those off now, which will people find quite useful. We have actually just released a white paper called it's the state of prospecting, which is going to five years worth of data. Yeah, I mean it did that. I think they're finally released it last week after a long time in the making, so I'll get a copy across. But that share somebody inside as well. But to begin with, if you're if you're trying to contact somebody as a salus person, you only really have a few options. You have a social media contact, you've got sending something by post, could try just turning up physically at their premises, which is not going to happen. You could pick up the phone or you can send emails that. There aren't really many other options in terms of outreach. Of course you can make your company interesting to those businesses of advertising, lots of other campaigns, but in terms of going out, that's what you're you're restricted to and things like linked in. They do work. However, if I'm lets you mentioned about the CEO, I may have a profile on linkedin. Am I going to have it open all the time? Am I going to pay you a great deal of attention to the INBOX? Probably not. I don't know why linkedin chose to redesign their inbox the way it is now, but outbound messages are above in bounds and it's it's chronological orders. Is Very easy to miss things. So it's I think it definitely serves a purpose. But if I'm trying to go out to a senior member of somebody who won't necessarily spend their daytodaytime or something like Linkedin, in terms of cost and effectiveness, email is is one of the best ways to do that. We've also noticed that when people talk about the pandemics of a buzz word, but when it will kicked off a bit in two thousand and twenty we're in the same boat as everyone else where panic mode's going to happen, and actually it turned out that our offering is very pandemic proof. So we had a couple of slower sales months, a few cards who had to leave, but then from May twenty twenty onwards, absolutely start a fly again. And if you think about what may transpire in the future, if more people are not going to be at the same premises like an office all the time, then therefore, landing in someone's Inbox as and now where they are, they have on their mobile, haven't a laptop, you got a much better chance of your outreach getting straight to that person. In order to think about how you should send your emails. The email is not designed to get somebody to want to buy your service or buy your product. It's nothing about that at all. You want to email everybody, ideally with a very personalized one to one email that shows that you think you can help that particular business. If you went down the route of writing all those emails by hand, or not by hand, but you know, typing them in yourself and putting in personalized information about the business, you will have a very personalized email. However, when you contact that person, if timing is just not right, is not going to go into not going to go anyway, not going to get that conversation. So therefore, you want to recreates that...

...feeling of one to one emails, but on a slightly more mass basis, which is which is what we do. So we first off have to find the right sort of people to contact. We do use linked in for that. We can find their email addresses through some tech that we've got which you run through and verify. I would say to people try to avoid buying lists just because it's very hard to maintain an accurate list and there's good chance you have out of date details. If you can outsource somebody to build this list by hand and contact them on pretty soon after you've identified them, that would be a good thing. But the style of email you want to write, what's be no more than say, four paragraphs, short paragraphs, and it's going to be you saying who you are, why you're contacting them, what you would like to do, which logically the next step is normally grab a coffee, have a phone call, give them a brief demo and then have a call to action which is recaffirming. Or can we do this then in a week's time or at the end of this week. We do also say about having a bit of of a softener in an email. I know it sounds a bit cheesey. It's like someone rings you up on it somehow's the weather. It's easy thing. Yeah, so I hope the day is not running away too quickly from you. Just just something that breaks up the high to this is why I'm contacting it. If you can personalize those as well, that's good. So when we create this short email for the person or a client of working with, we're always make we'll make sure we strip out redundant words. I'm sure you've read many CVS in your time and people's personal statements often contain information about them being dedicated and hard working and punctual. So examples to back that up. It's just it's just fluff and it doesn't really add any value. So we take the fluff out of the emails as well. What are the key benefits, or key one or two benefits and why you want to speak to them, and that normally can reduce the work out a bit as well. Simplify the language. Don't try and put anything in there that people are going to have to read a few times to understand. How you help people. If you don't have an elevator, pitch form that before you can start writing these emails. And in case people aren't aware of the elevator, pitch it to you your ten second explanation of what Your Business does like if you had to tell somebody what you did whilst you stepped into an elevator and you were going up. A couple of flaws, so that the message has to be very stripped down with the subject line. Don't try and trick people. Sure you see people put fw or Ara and and maybe it such a bad way to start the relationship. You want to engage reason we had. The first thing you do is late to me, like pretending that so you are forlarding something. You're nut. I mean way we do that, you know, our people put lot stuff in mudges, slipt. I don't see a nondoconel. The humors get delivered, you know, like spun fields. I should get rid of that. Will put some image in your email, right in the data of any men. It's a little bit strange, but yeah, I've been there, I've Sindos, I've been opening...

...them and you're art. Okay, it's just straight away it's such a bad I think he's actually damaging for the brands. Yeah, I have actually started advocating for a couple of emojis in if I'm emailing back and forth if somebody, I will sometimes pop an Emoji in the email body, but never subject line. Yeah, so, yeah, just just because when you read something that, I could read the same sentence with an angry voice in my head and a happy voice in my head and actually it could come across a complete different way. So how I write it is now they read it. Sometimes a little Emoji, but but anything like that in the subject line is screams mass marketing and yeah, just just not really ideal. So we tend to say maybe personalize it with the person's name or the company name and really say what you want to do, which are right, but that's massive. The amount of female that are received. Were people are just asking me for fifteen minutes of my maintain because they've got something to show me and they don't tell me why. What and why? ME, way, me, what do you want to show? I mean, why would they know? Than is the most precious things that I've got. Rightly, way would they give you fifty us off made am I faith, don't know what on earth you want and I know what you've got to say, because we've got the same varied like the seventh duty is shot to the point, couple of bullet point. Don't get big paragraph, just tell them very quickly. Why them, why now, and what you would like to do from it. The question that I've got for you, and I think that's that's the one million dollar question, and maybe a little bit of US secrets, recip and stuff. Is Our on earth do you manage to be pertinants, relevant and, and I mean that's not is a bit easier it at scale. I'll do you. You know, you said something at that love, which is a if you're right, the email yourself and you just personalize them, you probably would get to ten to twenty percent response rate. If you do it, they text time. It takes a lot of time and if you do at that scale and you could get that something, even if you get five, six, two, ten percent response rate, they will be beautiful. So I'll do you. Guys managed that sort of Putinans or relevants at scale? See you write. Some of it is a bit of a secret source. But the what do you talk about? The data interesting. We look at the obvious decisionmakers, champions and influences, because you're trying to start a conversation with people that are relevant. Yeah, but what we do with the the data itself? We do a manual Qa in terms of if we're going to talk about the company, we look at how the company's written in the data. If it's Barkeley's Bank Plc, then if I'm writing that email, wouldn't say, Oh, we want to speak about least bank plc. We write Berkeley as as the brand name. So we strip out all the the company names and make sure they're written in a way that would feed into an email. We think about the industry, and let's say we've got the very static obvious industries. That over says marketing and advertising. We can shorten that down to probably just marketing, because advertising go awful. Within that. Information and technology services. You can shorten that tech and and and we by personalizing all the raw...

...data, that basic email we've written. We use personalization points. We make sure they pull through the personalization in a way either just flows in that sentence and doesn't scream out, as in I'm a parameter that's being filled. I'm a parameter, and so am I. We have a lot of fail saves building as well. So we can't send out an email to dear first name. You know it can't. Our system won't allow that. So it's finding that balance of writing something that could well be personalized for that individual person. We try not to be overly assumptive with this is the problem we solve, because you could talk about generally what you do, but not necessarily we will solve this for you, because you assuming that they've got that and you got to tread carefully because if if you say something there's bit to assumptive, the people that are having a bad day mare be like, well, how do you know that about me and Ai? It's not. It is rare, but it happens. But that's really how we make it feel like it's personalize, because we do put in the information like the industry, the company name. We might talk about I'll we help other smaller tech businesses because we know that the head count is one hundred and fifty. We've labeled that as smaller, or maybe one to ten. We've labeled that two smaller rather than once ten, and that email that goes through might have six or seven data points, but doesn't look like that in any way. The person just receives an email that feels as though somebody has written directly to them. It's that balance of effort versus being able to get a sensible number of emails out each day. And I will say that the don't focus too much on that initial intro email because, although it makes a difference, we have statistically we find over that, well over the last year anyway, eighty percent of all replies that came from the prospects back to our clients were from the second, third and fourth emails that we send out, which are polite nudges on the first one. So very much the same. Let's say. It's good to take an internal example. So if you were emailing one of the people that work with you they hadn't replied in a couple of days, you'd forward it on from your cent email. So we apply that logic to a cold email as well, just slightly longer time, spam because you want to be too aggressive, and with a final email that lets them know I'm going to keep emailing you, you're not going to hear me here from me for the next six months, or normally is favored a humor in there and I'll leave it with you. So, in terms of top tips, get some chaser email set up, because you will increase the response rate and lead right hugely, because people don't only reply or not apply from the first email. Miss it, they're busy, they come think I'll come back to it later, late, never arrives. But also they might think is this person specifically getting hold of me? And the chasers actually add more and more human feel, even so more than the first one. I think. I know, I should at least let this person know, save them keep emailing me. I've got so many question for you. I'm going to start with the first one. I'M gonna try to go crownjically chronologically. was what you which you discuss, but you...

...mentioned taming the timing of something. Any man. Yes, I think this is massive right. I remember when I was prospecting, not out of cheekiness, of trying to be smart or whatever, but they used to kind of do my email, catch up on this on Sunday night. So I'm always been a bigger, big big I don't sleep well on Sunday if I don't know what my weeks look like and I get a little bit of a heads up and I don't like to start on Monday with a backlog from Friday, but they never close off my Friday properly, so I need to do a little bit of look at the weekend. That much maybe a but the evening was really good, Friday afternoon was fantastic, Monday was a tracious. So that's my experience from a timing prosperity wizard again giving us all the secret of soap. Probert. Was the prime time. Well, this is a part of what we've released in this the state of prospecting. If I was little holistically, we've often found between ten and eleven am in the morning has overall produced the best results. But they're definitely aren't nuances within that. So different industries will have different response times, different seniority's as well, with the better at different times. The Sunday night thing I've it's been on my mind for a while in fact, to trial not going out to necessarily everyone at that time to see, but trying maybe the CEO level of person who might be, as you say, very busy on a Friday, finish some people. I was I was going to have to see you. Ever, when I was prospecting was pure se level prospecting. Never you know. So, yeah, you're I think, and I think that's a great point. You want people back. Dead people are blackberries. So we're taking a little away in ago. But yeah, yeah, so I think that there is. It would be interesting to see what a Sunday night activity brings. fundingly enough, you're talking about in France. For my experience, statistically, response rate in France is lower than other neighboring countries. So that could be the timing of emails needs to be adjusted. If prospectting in France. You know, you could have just taught us something about the right time to send emails. But yeah, the other thing to bear in mind is that a lot of our clients aren't performing SDR activities or be the our activities in terms of their reliant on things like Soapo to generate the conversation. So the emails we send out, they're not normally interspersing them with their own direct phone calls. They're normally just take the replies and follow up with those. Yeah, respond to declined as well, but not punctuated with any other activities in the meantime. So, therefore, where what you were looking out on a more menu basis, email outside of core hours, because it doesn't matter when it's sent calling and calling, especially when people are more likely to be in the office and present. You would prioritize that during the day. But in terms of when we send emails out, yet the the the mid morning seems to be the the peak, but that could change as well. Over a timeline to the other thing that we discuss. He's kind of dead sequence doing when you do it twelve emails, because I'm raring all sorts of congression rate for getting a response.

Okay, and I'm not talking about the positive response, I'm talking about the prospecting. You where you are and that means yes, let's meet, that means interesting, but not now, or that mean we will never meet because of that rest. Okay, kind of you just to be very to put some categories you what should be. Was the benchmark, to tell yourselves, okay, we are run a good campaign. We put in them, we got the data right, we got the subject lane right, and I know that's when you do subject plane and on leaf. She gets to do that as well, but sometimes we do like smaller batch with different subjects to see what a split test? Yeah, if that's yet, but what would be a good conversion that you would say to your team? Look, but on the back we that was a good compaign. But what should we expect in Tim of percentage of response? So we have our average stance now on our website. We publish a rolling twelve monthly window. So I could say those thatts are what you should aim for, but in reality it they're the average. We've got people performing above and performing below. And if I'm a company that targets enterprise organizations and I've got a eighteen months our cycle to sell in very high cost transformational it software or platforms, I'm not going to be having the same amount of applies to somebody who is contacting smaller businesses and offering reasonably costed monthly it support or marketing services. So there can be a big difference. We always try to make sure that each campaign is is somewhere near the average each or above. We got loads of clients who were way below average but because of what they do and who they sell to, they're happy with them. So if I call out the averages we'd expect, you want to have about fifteen percent of the people uv e mailed replying yeah, which is the people that have opened. Now our open rates are around about by the way. That's that's much better. And expectation. So you must have some things. You Cre thanking Yoursels Boon, which is good. I mean that's what you do find thing something expectutedly bitter. Well, it starts with the open so we want fifty percent to open, to get the email opened. We've talked about, you know, not having emoji stuff in the subject line, but there's also how you send emails. Eve. Make sure you domain is fresh, make sure there's no issues with it. That's a whole nother subject. Won't go on to it, but make sure that you're not landing a spam. So if you get half the people open your emails, if fifteen percent of the people who got sent an email open, that's a hundred and fifty replies out a thousand people. And then, in terms of of lead rape, there's it's not a black and white scenario in terms of no, yes, what you get are various degrees of guests through to various degrees of no. So we have a decline category, which is somebody saying no, thank you, and then we have people that are at the very end of the scale, a positive reply where they're just like yeah, let's have that coffee. You then have people who are yeah, that could be interesting. I'm in the middle of X Y zed. Let's you know, cappy to speak in six weeks time. Any sales person will contact our person and start our conversation. Then you also have, as you mentioned, not...

...hite for me, but here is Bob who is interested or could be interested. You tend to find that people don't put you in touch with somebody else in the business unless there's a reason for it, otherwise they'll become quite unpopular in the workplace if there is routing cold approaches through to t relopant people. And so we have an average we call lead right. So those types of replies around about three and a half to four percent. So that's thirty five to forty leads. Are the the replies where anyone sales would want to action them straight away to try and move them to a conversation. Positives pretty much always conversation deferred. Again, very easy. The referrals. They could present a slight more of a challenge, but we get we get conversations from declines because a decline can be a flippant know, without really thinking about it, or yeah, and quite often it's not a never either, and then you're right there. There is a sequence, a another question of good polius are mean emails is just the right balance, because you've gone send them for team and some people. Are you to do twenty someone's I said, I know, it's freeze enough. I think you are more on five to seven from what you are saying. No, no, we we turned to send for I mean a lot of people talk about touch points between initial to a sale, whereas, yeah, I mean, I wouldn't try and new contact somebody twenty type. Whatever's nicety are. Maybe I would. But I think if you've emailed somebody four times and you know you make sure that the landing it inboxes, if they've not done anything, but the fourth one not open there or anything like that, then there's a good chance to if six and seven, than going to suddenly make them go. Well, now you've emailed me eight times, I'm interested the fourth emale for whatever the last email is, whether the our last is a third or fourth or fifth, it always needs to let the person know that. I don't want to be the person who irritates you, and that's why you get quand a lot replies from them, because some people go no, no, it's fine, I've just been busy, I'm actually interested, or you should let me come back to me an x amount of time. If they think that they don't need to do anything because you're just going to keep emailing them every week, then there's no reason for them to reply because if they are interested but they don't want to do with it now, they'll go well, I'll just reply when I am so we put a vast majority of our clients. It's for emails. We space them about six working days apart. Yeah, sometimes will shrink that if there's an event and we need to speed up the process slightly. The call to action of meeting, if you can meet, rather than phone call always is a much better result. We also see that the controduction of giving varsus taking is good. You know, so you good to be boin. So look just I mean, I'm trying to prospect your organization. Quite frankly, you must be a Fart tres case not being able to speak to anyone. But here is a gardener reply that I wanted to show with you. Right. Yeah, and I would interest you in bag to barographs free because we spoke with one of your culdic six bin. That's when you've got to be tough context of this day. So your where you are like a be pointing an account days approach. So again, probably Dick to get sentence to flag that, but which is pretty much where we we've got there. Sixty gotten the far crying with you a fir amount. But it's two things. First of...

...all, we're getting the flipping the pancake that earlier on is when you get to know. I think this is absolute goal for the sells team. Someone said no, I want to me to be using. Why? Okay, and you can go back and that's where you know that personalization that you can do at its scale. You can then start trade the personalization, say that person was the role, and then you can really start to almost prepare an emails and look, with all your respect, and I appreciate your not but I'm reading this, I'm finding that doing my research and going to I still convinced that you would benefit from me. But I would appreciate if you tell me why not and I will leave you alone. But just it from my own satisfaction and for my own intelligence. Please give me the way. If you give me the why, I leave you other right, but I just can't see why not. Why not now whatever? So obviously do that in the polite way. Coming back on the on the other thing I think the giving people are so much is the people are sending emails. Sometimes tend to be very selfish. They want your time. But sometimes you could do emails, and particularly when you start an email by giving information or sharing against to this or just say well, look, we've done that, or we've been trying to contact you of all the fulness, been extremely unsuccessful, so we went on to social media. Still Not in your response. So I am selling you a good or demail. This is the piece of information I want you to get your wrong. Okay. This is why we think you should meet with us now, and this is the value that people companies of your size pretty much get from working with company like us. Okay, so if that stopped moving the needle, fine, just a means not going to move the email at all. I'm not interested. But I'd like to get to communication. And often what we tend to do, also when we don't get response, but we try to get response to categorizes, which some people like don't like you to send the sort of okay, tell me what it is. Is it one you will never meet with us to you just don't have the time. stree. You still don't't knowsand what I'm talking about for you work with a competitoror what it light is and people what's very annoying and receive emails and I just don't. I just delete them. These people's out just wanted to buy my email up. Just wanted to buy my email up. I still don't know what you want from me. There were some extreme I saying just any may and that's kind of leading me to the next question I want to ask you, which is, what are the things to avoid? What are the things that you think really piece of people with emails, because, let's you must be receiving emails, you must be like me. You must have emailed company emailing you to do email for you. I've got legeneration company culling me every day to send me Lee generation. So clearly that that they is not fright. But what other things to avoid? That you think is absolutely outrageous and could cost us a little bit of brain reputation. Yeah, so, because we feel like we do this activity so well. When I receive emails, I normally just giving in my head a critique of what they've what they've done and things put me off, and we advise against are a list of bullet points, because it then starts to look too much like it's a market in brochure, which you don't want. Just random bold parts...

...of the email highlighting what they think is going to draw my attention into it. It's just going to irritate me. Where there's lots of times where they've not got a name or something. It's just deer and they haven't even put that who you are. And Yeah, there are some chases that just get you back up rather than make you think I'll, I'll get in touch with the person, like what you're saying. You know, I haven't. I didn't hear back, you know, and the giving a certain amount of reasons. No, it's if it's different, saying I haven't heard back yet, and sit nuce, you're saying as I haven't heard back yet, I just thought, you know, I would give you a you know, an John this and then you give up another bit of value. You say no, we really feel like we could benefit exited in this area. So let me know. Be Available for a for a chat. You just say, as you mentioned having a bag put into the top of your email. You know who are you. So it's it's too if it's too in personal, if it's full of if it doesn't look like somebody's open up outlook or Gmail of the sent it to me. I don't like that. Images again, that's a big no. No, you don't have a load of images. Probably link on of the graces off. I spend fewtiles and you normally have a link in your signature, but not like a link in the body. But that's another thing. I get a lot of emails with no signature and I'm thinking what you are you? Yeah, it's a are you even a business? And I'm probably talking more about the really bad style prospecting emails, but make sure you got your signature and you know those. Yeah, it doesn't look like a legitimate company in the slightest, and they could be that you just haven't put sit in there forever. You using to send your emails out from. Yeah, makes sense. Look really, I mean I could go on and I've got so many questions. I will stop the bullet point because I saw the bullet point was a good way to read them. I like to really put it. Put Me to in there. Maybe a couple, I don't know. Yeah, I will try without but I think the thing that is important is none of those tactics should be seen as the as the scene of bullet let's question that I've got for you, which is probably where we should have started, is is that a privacy lose? Who the elephants in the room? The GDPR eat privacy? I I don't want to steal offender here, so I'm gonna let you just can you clarify what on else is going on to audience, because I think people get really conscious between the two? You speak about personalized email. So any man coming from someone who else shoes, you know, sending a guess, a blankets email that goes two thousands of people except tracks and trust. So can you just tell us what's right what's wrong from a data low privacy perspective? On the table of the ser the the challenge that everyone is having is that there's very few places where it's black and white. A lot of the places it's you should do this. You should have reasonable. But the first thing to take away is that GDP are isn't said, there'sn'tlet to govern where you whether you can send an email to somebody. It's about pot acting people's private data from being used...

...in ways that they don't want it to be used, and things like your personally mail address, your home address, your phone number. Now these are very identifiable pieces of information. Your job title, your name if you're on something Linkedin, and your business email address. Yes, their PII, but actually do they cause a significant risk to your your your person if somebody has that information? Not Really. But either way, you've devour is about how did you acquire it? Why are you processing it? And the massive open hole for people to process data like the business email address is legitimate interests. So that's why I am sending you this email. The privacy rules around whether you can send an email. We use a traffic light sort of system where there are some countries that are like absolutely, you should not, some countries where they go, no problem at all, and some country use that, they go. Know you you shouldn't send emails, but they don't make it explicit between be to be and BTC. So in the UK it's completely green in the US, although they have to bear in mind things like Youdpr it's can spam. I know there are some strict of trick regulations in California, for example, but it's now we've done the back end work to allow us to comply with those rules. So we're not experts. What we've got an Expertin House, but I'm not going to go to the details of that. Just assume that for the majority to it the US, as long as you don't keep emailing people, you give them a clear opt out, it's fine. And then around Europe there are like Sweden is the same as the UK. I think Frances, but all the red countries are pasted like like Germany, Austria and Switzerland, where they're just like ler. You can't do it. It's quite clear. However, I am we have never seen a single instance of anyone who sent some be to be emails, whether they were marketing or one unto one or whatever, being looked at or anything happening with the regulator, because ultimately that's not particularly interesting to them and we're if you email tenzero people and three people said I didn't want to receive an email. Nothing is really going to come with that. Now we can't say that a hundred percent nothing would come of it, because you never know, but there's no evidence for it. So if you're if you're looking at any of this in the balanced way, if you do one to one outbound emails, marketing laws aren't designed to stop sales people from functioning now. They don't want people to feel they can't send an email to somebody and have to get their permission. So it's just about being respectful and if you send an email or somebody doesn't want to receive it, don't email them again. Keep a lock who doesn't want to be emailed. If you are concerned, just avoid. You doing it in countries like Germany, Switzerland and Austria, but every else. We know we prospect all over the world and we're doing it at a much larger scale than our clients because we're doing our behalf of hundreds of clients and we have issues because if, for somebody says I don't want to be emailed,...

...you just don't email them again. You tell them how you got the information, provide them with that and say yeah, we'll make sure you removed and then that's it. But it was an absolute pleasure to obvious team on the show today. Having great I think we need to organization on but two sounds like a dig into a little bit more stuff, and also I'd like to you know we just make sure that we should speak to you to see how we could walk together, so you know, you guys can help us to get about our response to it, because we definitely are getting any add fifteen person right now. So I guess was a pleasure having on the show. Thanks so much for your ord inside. That shows us today Brillam thank yes, like it's a you've been listening to bedb revenue acceleration. To ensure that you never miss an episode, subscribe to the show in your favorite podcast player. Thank you so much for listening. Until next time.

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