B2B Revenue Acceleration
B2B Revenue Acceleration

Episode · 9 months ago

96: Getting Your Lead Research Right w/ Mark Colgan


Just because a prospect matches your buyer persona, it doesn’t mean they want to buy your product.

You’ve got to find triggers or signals to get in front of accounts more likely to be in the market for a solution like yours.

In this episode, we interview Mark Colgan, Co-Founder and CRO at Speak On Podcasts and Outbound Prospecting Coach at Sales Impact Academy, about how to get your lead research right.

What we talked about:

  • Only 3% of your market are actively buying
  • How to leverage relevant research
  • What happens when you reach people who want to buy

Check out these resources we mentioned during the podcast:

To hear this interview and many more like it, subscribe to The B2B Revenue Acceleration Podcast on Apple Podcasts, on Spotify, or on our website.

You're listening to be to B RevenueAcceleration, a podcast dedicated helping software executives stay on thecutting edge of sails and marketing in their industry. Let's get into the show, I welcome to be to be a revennieacceleration. My name is all a Ami. He and I'm ere today with Mark CorganKofondo at Spakan podcast and album prospectine coach at the Salles ImpactAcademy. I want you today, Mak I'm very good ray. Thank you. I'm mean LisbonPORC Yoo, when the sun I shining so I can't complain a be jealous about that.I am in perly south of London and Sun is definitely o training. However, it'sraining out there and it's absolutely miserable. So his body is a great great-is a great place. O'l come you ar Dan. Do you live in Thisburn or yeah? I doknow I am escaping Brexit, so I applied for residency N in Portugal and managedto secure that just before the end of the year. So I'm going to be saying inthere's been for the foreseabl. Are You FRAGIN Bottergis? Yet not not just yet,but I can practice with Cat Mabean and some o some other people around here.Yeah, hats, Grea, whas, that's a good idea: whe, not a Ma, I'm sure Portugais N. Lisba is a fantastic city, great crat cit, on e Wener. For the firsttime three hears ago, I was amazed just beautiful full of hi story. Footis Iright Wat are Nice, you know nothing but yeah. You can walk everywhere in aroundtwenty minutes and in fact I was here for the first lockdown last year and Ihad the choice to go back to the UK or stayin in Lisbon and Mi fourt, I'mgoing to stay in this pinning and see how the Portugues dealt with it andfortunately they dealt with it a lot better than other countries at the time.So I thought it was a good choice and was the situation wiscovered nineteenin Portugo? Is that contained or you? Unfortunately, the numbers are risingup now and it's actually theyre affected a lot worse than they were thefirst time round and they believe it's because they kind of release some ofthe restrictions for Christmas and the years a lot of people spent timetogether. So the there will be a new lockdown coming in. I think thegovernment are going to be announceg it today, so it's kind of wait and see,but but still were wher gife goes anyway. Let's get downto business mark. So today we will be talking about how to get your leadresearch bright. Such an important Keariment of success is getting theresearch right absolut, but before we get into the conversation, could youplease tell us a little bit more about yourself mark and your career in theBitube? Sens won, of course yeah. So my career actually started around thirteenyears ago, where I started in sales, pretty much as a business developmentret rap, but in the world of recruitment, so really you're sellingtwo things: joust selling an opportunity to a candidate and you're,also selling a person to the hiring manager so being able to sell, probablyone of the hardest things which is a person with emotions and decisions andchanging changing their decisions. They really gave me some very solidfoundations in sales. I later in my career, moved into marting but hadalways been close to alined with sales and then more recently I ran a companycalled Tas drive, which is all about lead research in Dato and Richmond. Soin the just over the year that I spent there, I looked into over a hundredoutbound campaigns to help our customers get more with the data thatthey were researching, which is where I developd these leav sourcing. playbooksthat we're going to talk about today and then just outside of of that Irananagency can speak on podcast. I do some work with product and boarding for SASScompanies and I mento start upto, Scrou, grote, mental and scalewiys. There yougo. You never slip, besely, no exactl! I sa having having no family, nochildren. It gives me a little bit more time. So tell me: Abay I've got two ofThos and yeah. It's it's! It's challenging nothing to Pan, byabout,that great kids, but yeah. It does change your life, Litte Bitte, Eyou,dot, Likin. My first question around the do: Neid sourcing playbook. So youknow I guess, we've all been there. I mean I have maybe tnot all our liseerto theave been there, but we know the...

...importance of getting your researchright before you engage you. You can't just ray on thatadays the good old dayof speaking or targeting an excess, prochit and coing contact by contactsgoing to the next one saying the same thing: to lots of people that numbervolume game and stuff like that was maybe yau thing in the s. But you knownow: You've got to walk a little bit harder. U Need to look at triggers youto look at by your person as you need to look at personer journey. You've gotMonty by your personalcycle. It is a little bit more complicated. You've gotmore meduns as well. Oto Touch people so yeah. I guess first question and youbridge it quite nicely. Could you please walk us through some of the leadsourcin playbooks, that you developed of course, of course, and were theselead sourcing clavor? So where the inspiration came from, is I read andI'm not sure if you read that the chet homes, the ultimate salls machine, itcame out about two thousand and seven but it' still as relevant as it wasthen is today and in that book he mentions that only three percent ofyour market are actively buying. Seven percent may be interested in buying,but the remaining ninety percent just aren't in an active buying mode. So Istarted to ask myself the question: How do I find people who are more likely tobuy, and the answer that I fell upon is relevance and timing, so when I startedthink about how do I identify relevancy and how do I identify timing, I startedto think about. I guess the triggers and all the events happening in myprospects lives. That would be would signal that they're more likely to buyso some of the lead source in Playwis and what I do Isi'll name a few of themand we can dive into some that in a bit more detail, so ther'll be some thatyou've heard before I listen to Michael Hanson's podcast broke from a few weeksago when he talked about the triggers. So raising a round of funding is oftena good sign that a company is growing and therefore they have new targetswhich they have. They have to change the way that they've been working toachieve those targets. Another signal would be if they're, currently hiringso, if they're growing into the in their team and they're expanding theirteam again, they may need new solutions. Other ones around the company istechnology that they use and then from a pesonapoint of view, so the actualprospect themselves, if they've just started a new role. That's a reallygood time to initiate conversations with a potential prospect, because mostpeople, when they start a new role, have the motivation to change things,to do things differently and to really have a large impact on the businessthey're joining. So they have hig much more likely to be in a buying mode aswell. The technology they use, as I mentioned before, is another good one,but then also one one of my favorite ones is that I called it the socialexpansion with linked in being such the platform. It is there's lots ofinfluences on there talking about various different topics and when a lotof people in their Lindin post say comment here to find out more. So ifsomebody is commenting on SAS pricing, for example- and the people are saying-and they said comment here- If you want the PDF- those three hundred peoplethat wanted that pedf about sess pricing ar obviously interested inlearning more about secprising and they may be looking for a new solution. Soit's thinking about what happens? What are these events? What information canI see and really taking just a hypothesies that these people may bemore likely to to be interested in your product doorspucion or they have a problem that you can sell yeah? That makes perfect senseand I believe that you've got O wrong. Fourteen of tdisplaybooks that' right yeah. There is- and I put them all intoa webenire which we can link up to in the shownow. It's not behind a form oranything is for anybody to to listen to us about twenty minutes of me talkingand explaining each ofther playbooks in a bit more detail. Interesting yeah I'dlike to I'd like to get the leade to look at them in detailer tha in thepreparation of today at the different Ti Ors, and you know the kind of spiritabout it, but I've not raised into every single one of them. I shoulddefinitely give it a good go. Maybe you can oient me as well out of thisfourteen playbooks, which one did you...

...see companies getting to beld the bestrezord from yeah, so it really does. As you know, with the companies and clienst you work with every company is very different. I'll give some examples ofsome of the campaigns. I Work W th with our customers. One was actually afriend of mine. Ho was a cold email, copywriter and you'd think that theywouldn't be short of work, but they were looking to work with better bettercompanies and clients. So what we actually did with what I helpd myfriend with is I looked on product Han, which is a website where lots ofproducts are launched and we looked at the cold email out. Reach tools such asLemlist Mel, shake, replied, Io out, reached sales loff and saw the peoplethat were upvoting and interacting with those products. So what we took thehypothesies was, if somebody is up voting this type of product thanthey're interested in using it and therefore they're interested in coldemail. So we sent out a message to each ofwher. We enrich the data and sent ourmessage to each of those people ant to be quite kind of qualified them to saywe will review your cold email sort of your cold email copy and, if we thinkof then, if we can think of any improvements, wellwe will suggest thosefor you. We actually had to stop that campaign because, after only aboutthirty messages, the my boyfriend was just too busy to deal with any moreinbound needs and again its because we ware targeon people that we knew wereinterested rather than targeting the every vp of sales in London, of whichthere's teno thousands onlinke in. So it's really narring hat that threepercent another another one that I've used quite successfively as the newtechnology. So we are working with a hub spot agency, so they help with Habspot cms and the marking, automation, and so what we did is we set up atrigger alert using similar tech and similar tech allows you to say, tell me:When Company and this location of this website size starts using a particulartechnology. We obviously chose hub spot and then we we use that as the triggerto send out an automated email with some personalization, not not topersonalize, which offered some value in the terms of content, which werehere of the things to avoid when getting started with had spot and whatthey were doing was investing and depositing the good will and givingvalue in the in their prospect so that when they did have a need, when theydid have a challenge, these were the people that they thought of to come andwork with another one. Other example. Before I take e pause is we wereworking with a company in the cloud security space and they wanted totarget people specifically that had this certification. So we you looked atlinked in learning where there was a pause about this particular piece oftechnology in the certification, and we use that as the reason to reach out topeople, because we knew that they were certified. We knew that they would havethe problem that e the software help them overcome. So it's all aboutthinking what is happening in my prospect's life before they need thesolution that I sell. Yeah ther's, Abot Fing you tricker to the trigger toreally get to the people work in the market of maybe tnat buying, but at leastinterested to have a conversation. The people I can give you a yes or no. Whendo we do when you do, is the rest of the population so do any of your playbooks are supporting people. Wo aremore than type of account, base type of approach. Where you know you kind ofgood, you eat to good yeals away where you're like O. Look. I really want toget into that company an I need to find I trigger. I need to find a way toengage with dhems. We start about saying, okay. Well, this is what I'msayding, and this is what Ye anpush arested. So let's go and do somereverse search to try to identify the persentage of the population, as youmentioned hat three five person, but when you, when you have to get in, you have playbooks that Shupout that inyour in your inatnor yeah, so there's a number of different software providersout there, but look at kind of the company level update so whever. Theyraise around funding. There's mergers, TAT, puosition activity, they're,opening up new offices that hiring...

...aggressively they raised around tafunding. All of those are triggers that people can use to reach out and know.Sometimes in some campaigns you can mention that other times you may notwant to mention it, and it just happens to be good timing that you're reachingout at that time. So that's often the follow up question I get asked is: Doyou reference the trigger and I think in some cases you can in another casesyou don't need to, but that's typically, when your total adjessable market mightbe a little bit smaller and you can spend a little bit more time doing theresearch as well, especially if you're taken an account based marking approach.Yeah, we do a faont of this. You know I think the first ot actually good, thatratization was probably Hu back in two thousand, probably five or six- and Iremember sitting next to a Guy British guy was prospecting in the UK. I was abigyard the time myself and, and he really wanted to get into Britishshowits. He wanted to get some. I con't remember what Yeu Wes saying I comFromabo, which was a wowas te Fin, but Yo really wanted to go into Britishoits and ei a ton of research, and he was reading the Tha Company public account announcementlike that Yeartony announcemenn and you know they kind of speak about when thestrategy directions are. But then he just went on to Googe and Ithink he was probably reatively new at the time I don't know if coger was wasjust doing it or what but HEU just got he founde just use articor. You managedto get to to look at news and, if Fon aartical in the financial time wherethey were speaking about British ouays requiring to the savingall across the business, because the cust of Carasin was going up, okay andes the cois where she put in the plane- and I remember in Thain Al thatinformation pissing it together and going straight at the top and SA lookbase on what I've read or my desk cresoarch. You are looking attroducingcause. I've been speaking with such and such vendor and we believe we canreduce youcust on that part Bo by unportimatively twenty five percent,but also been you PROMI, Spendeon, six to ten million paoon ther. So basically,I'v Got Twe hundred million, maybe of saining to suggest to you who is thebest person to speak to about that, and people would actually helpin to findthe right guy, because at the time Linton was not asprediminent and people wanted t Om Linin and you had to prospect byspeaking to people usii to sor one you pitch them. They tell you somethingelse. You stick to a PA, you pitch them and Maya. It was aother way of doing itand he acturay managed to get to meeting and thatually pose ta deal AAn.I Aon witnessing that yeah sitting next to him, but you know, and that's reallywhen I got the Dik Lik Abot. Look, it's not about me and what I've got to tellthem it's about them and what they expiencin. How can I find? How can I FANTECII the trigger Thatas?You say you could you could do a revel seach? We could be based on the peoplethey just Recretteng someone now that you're in a new head of Sele. They are speaking about doing a newtalent program or theyare, raising some mony for what? Whatever reason, but forthe larger company like like like like the DA of this one andeverything is often about what's happening in the accounts, it's aporant fop in the newes. It's everything is linked with the marketchair and drive more from your market Shan. This is really what InterrisiySwitt, because Ta Public Coganization and I ated to document myself andreally go with that approach to market and and that admi drastically, not onlyin my carreers a bidar but also you know, understanding more wats, aputting at thesea swit and really the condution at people. Aring yeah, I think as well. You can distillpretty much most apartment objectives. Most that I've sold into in the past iseither to make more money to increase a revenue or reduce costs or be moreefficient. So there's three objectives there that you could really target onwhen reaching out an example of another...

...customer that I've worked it in thepast they're in the pricing intelligence. So they work with ecomistbrands and retail stores and they help analyze what the compestors are doingso they're in a unique position where they have all this data. They just needto be pointed in the right direction, O then to produce the valuable reportingfrom it. Their deal sizes are rather large, which means their total andtheir Toka. Dressbul market is fairly large as well, but they can take a very,very personalized approach, their outreach, so what they do is they reachout to the five big H leaders in whatever category that they'retargeting and then offer to produce a competitor report for them and it'sproducing value, and- and you know yes, that requires some work. Does it scalenot really, but when the deal size justifies the effort that it takes tocreate that report, then then it's worth it absolutely absolutely. Yet.Next perfect sensemark- and you know how would you suggest to Seris people to use thecontext of thei research when they reach out to company that they Dontifiathe most riven so was the best way to poccage it. I mean you mentioned culdEmain, you know, but is there a better delivery method, a bettersequence better? Basically, how would you go about it if there is a method atstuch yeah, so I still believe cold calling is one of the fiht mosteffective channels when it comes to to sales, but it really does depend whoyou're selling to as well, if you're selling to tradies like electricians and plumbers,they're not going to be answerrim email, so I wouldn't suggest email picking upthe phone and speaking to them is going to be more helpful but Yoa. At the sametime, depending on your the maturity of ther prospect, you don't want to spookthem agay, so I think for sales and marketing people. They know whatreverse Ip lookup is, which is when somebody visits your site from anoffice, you can tell that person is aior website, whereas a teacher ormaybe even a HR manager may not be that technically a techo be aware of thetechnology, so it really does depend on the prospect. I think you can referencecertain certain triggers if they raise, if theyre, if they raise around afunding, if they've, if they're, currently hiring because it's obviouslis public data. Anybody can see that the key is, though, not to pitch yourproduct or service its really. To start with a question, I think my mainmethodology when it comes outbound is that it's not about a bookingappointment. It's about starting conversations. So I always like to leadwith questions to really prove on the pain that I think that they may beexperiencing by asking them. Are you experiencing this pain yeah? That makes sense, but you knowwhat even sometimeswhat I've seen working on main side is getting aheadof the Culf, so you know made te funding. May it be Maye be from a technolgy pespective, sofunding example. You know one of the things that Wointo ratics we actuallytrid to engage this company prefunding. We supend Te firmt of time walking withwith Tubatos and trying to meet with people who are basically they don'thave any money. They've got alfufunctional product, but Ta GratDigade, and we start speaking to themher about what the Ha it is glakout.Then we stopped the conversation really early, because what we see we see thatsome triggers, like fundings on crunch base, are being absolutely useing. BsBas, thousands of people literally today its announce you've got. I don'tknow many aliets going out everyone. It's too late. People are just over,went and all those gins that will not stick to them, prayor to them. Gettingany money are now very darrty to speak to them and that's why we trie to getearny, but we've also seen it sometimes using a bit of a change of since peech,and I think one of the best example was the first one where we reallyrecognized that we wolked with with a company called train micro e, been acrient pop for a whine, but at some points of the the thelifecycle, the ECAOTHE complet cor, so brigade that was managingvinerabilities in veuctualize environment, okay, that's kind of theidea lihe, but back to when we back in todays, everybody was doing a bit ofviastalization, but people who just...

...have a couple of selles doing thatTisition, not a lot of yetolization. I was the beginning of TVM okay and wewere just getting that resistance of people not getting it, and what Wul EsaTodo is to change the message around and Sa look its very simple. If youhave not at least Serte Posom of your pack, Vatual Iyes, if you're notembracing the Jorny to you, trotization, let's not waste any more time. You knowObionia and the SOT of person. We want to speak to plus you don't Tand Theadacof Managy vunerabilities. You probably put thought of your infrostfroturt, youdon't care about on the Viltra Ras on Rodmen, so you know lit's not talk toyou, but I just want to assess that and by saying that you can of make themthink. Am I doing the right thing and also youas people? I said one. Look! No!I'm nots, but YOUNOLEX, two to three Os, I'm brunning on doing it and then trendas a client was good enough to say we want to speak to this people ony. Wewant to tell them about the job. Why? Because they needed security with thefoot on the break for the Doulit of Yeatrotization, like like you mentionewith your crun security. customels security is the food of the break forthe move to the gloud. You know most people don't do it, because it'sprobably beter foeer selv on te tape. You know in a you Na, you know in some sort of safe, whatever safe safey a I. You haveto Beia big, do whatever, but that's the things wence you cet tostrigger. You can really speak about. Look whyre you in your journey. I amled to believe that organization of Fer size the people are speaking to inorganization. H Y are really leading to the cloud, your ratis that I don't knowmuch you are pushing. So are you eleader or follower when it comes tocloud and then you gin of get the filing and I's about getting them atthe right thing, but sometimes what we've seen very for the largest demsfor the distruptive for the mox more complex sense is to get people involvedbefore the actury of the trigger so really went dow in the planning ofthinking. Okay, I really should push that, but his is Alen the issue andhave the bess ofus of things to do, and you can av give that light burnmovement where they're like okay, you know what that's actually putting mostof my consertat trits now, so, let's actually atcelerate that, because Thiwould reali ever very for my business yeah. I think it's a really it's areally good example, and I want to share an example which I wasn'tinvolved in, but I listen to the story and it's a software coled gorgust therehelpd e software for econost rget gorgeous yeah yeah. Are you familiarwith them? No, no! No, I think it's a French company so mayhave pronounced it wrong, but I'm reading it as it as it looks I'm sayingas at look. They essentially use the the trigger ofsomebody installing a live chat, software on their ECOMOSE site, soChopifi in particular, so hey looked at all shupper fie sites that had startedusing live chat. Now when somebody just starts using livechat, that's not thetime for gorgeous. It doesn't help them when they've just got one or one or twochats coming in an hour. It really help they. It really come. The productreally comes into its own once it has high volume and it uses ai to helpunderstand the the sentiment and all the different questions. You know thisgot I'm not a sales person. I go just so. I'm probably butdering their pitch.However, what they did is they started to build that relationship with theseshoperfie store owners as they were growing and they geared a lot of theircontent to say: here's how you grow commice Branten! So here's how youmarket your Eacomus, here's how here's the ultimate gide to faceboogads in twothousand and eighteen, whatever it may be again, this company isn't a facebookads agency. It's not selling them that service, but they're, providing valueto help get their customers to the point where they would need a solution:Ligkt, gorgious and again who's. The person that they're going to go to whenthey're saying well, my health disk is overwhelming. I need to employ morecustomer experience professionals, or do I just need a solution that can helpfind the efficiencies in the support that we were giving and that's actuallyhow they grew very quickly and generated their first. A thousandcustomers was investing in providing value and it, like you say, thechallengeer sell...

...there of like helping people askingquestions, making sure that they are. Are they aware of what we do and how wedo it, but yeah. That's a story of how go jus created their first thousandcustomers and just a another example slightly away from sales. I used towork in the data center industry for a design and build Compani, so they builtdate, centers or designer build them. There's a huge conference every year nthat the exle and London s an as a columus along this is huge exhibition.One year we decided not to go and get the big stand that they normally did,and I managed to secure around twotousand pounds to put behind a barand the reason I did. That is because I knew tha. The majority of people aremiddle aged men and they like golf so and they like ther. So we put on ahappy hour. We rattled off of Goth trip ticket, but really what people areinterested in is finding out what of what their peers are doing andespecially in this world. F The data center industry. From that. From thatevent, we ran the company was able to build the relationship with a prospectthey've been trying to reach and it turn into a ten million dollar deal andthen thet actually replicated into a furver ten million dollar deal afterthey delivered the daydecenter. They were asked to replicate it in America,so almost twenty ML, twenty million dollars off twothousand pounds ad spendagain just by connecting people and putting peers in the same room, givingthem some beer and the opportunities to win a golf trip. So again, it's goingback to your point is about thinking about what do they really want? Theywant to learn. They want to know whether they're doing a good job. Theywant to understand from you who has a unique insight into hundreds ofcampaigns. A hundreds of customers and learning from your insights is one ofthe best ways to kind of build yourself to position yourself as a trestedadviser, and not that salesperson yeah ye h and if there is beer involved, iMax Ben even better, O the happy days yeah. So thanks for that mark, it was a greatchat with we. A Thi stage of the of the conversation and just to Proserph is toask our guest to tell us ow. Our listener can get in touch with them.They wish to carry on the conversation or if they want to speak to you aboutspakon, podcast or thesevs inpack academy showing such etc. So what isthe best way to get on of you BA yeah? The best way to reach me is linked inso you can search for Mark Colgan and there's not too many of Mark cogans onthere, and if you want to find out about some of the other projects I'mworking on, then I have a website mark Colgancodo, UK, perfect. Well, it wasgreat to have vew on the podcast today. So thank you very much for your time.Thank you. Ra really appreciate it. Take Yar upperadics has redefined the meaning ofrevenue generation for technology companies worldwide, while thetraditional concepts of building and managing insize sales teams in househas existed for many years. Companies are struggling with the lack of focus,agility and scale required in today's fast and complex world of enterprisetechnology sales. Seeow operatics can help your company accelerate pipelineat Operatics, dot net you've been listening to B, to b revenueacceleration to ensure that you never miss an episode subscribe to the showin your favorite podcast player. Thank you so much for listening until nexttime.

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