B2B Revenue Acceleration
B2B Revenue Acceleration

Episode · 1 year ago

96: Getting Your Lead Research Right w/ Mark Colgan

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Just because a prospect matches your buyer persona, it doesn’t mean they want to buy your product.

You’ve got to find triggers or signals to get in front of accounts more likely to be in the market for a solution like yours.

In this episode, we interview Mark Colgan, Co-Founder and CRO at Speak On Podcasts and Outbound Prospecting Coach at Sales Impact Academy, about how to get your lead research right.

What we talked about:

  • Only 3% of your market are actively buying
  • How to leverage relevant research
  • What happens when you reach people who want to buy

Check out these resources we mentioned during the podcast:


To hear this interview and many more like it, subscribe to The B2B Revenue Acceleration Podcast on Apple Podcasts, on Spotify, or on our website.

You were listening to bb revenue acceleration, a podcast dedicated helping software executive stay on the cutting edge of sales and marketing in their industry. Let's get into the show. Hi, welcome to be to be a Roman new acceleration. My name is already a mutier and I'm here today with Mark Colgan, Co founder at speak on podcast and out bomb prospecting coach at the cells Impact Academy. How are you today, mark? I'm very good. Ray. Thank you. I mean Lisbon, Portugal, and the sun is shining, so I can't complain. May Be Jealous about that. I in parley, south of London, and son is definitely a training however, it's raining out there and it's absolutely miserable. So now this, buddy is a great great is a great place. I'll come you out there. I mean, do you live in this burner? Yeah, I do. Now I am escaping Brexit, so I applied for residency in Portugal and managed to secure that just before the end of the year. So I'm going to be saying in there's been for the foreseeable are you flirting Portuguese yet? Not, not just yet, but I can practice with cat maybe, and somehow some other people around here. Yeah, that's great. Last that's a good idea. Why not? I'm sure Portugal is a I mean LISB. He's a fantastic city, great, great city. ARD wonder for the first time of three hours ago I was a Naze, just beautiful, full of his story. Food is great. What are Nice? You know nothing. Yeah, you can walk everywhere in around twenty minutes and in fact I was here for the first lockdown last year and I had the choice to go back to the UK or stay in Lisbon, and I thought I'm going to stay in there'sbend and see how the Portuguese dealt with it, and fortunately they dealt with it a lot better than other countries at the time. So I thought it was a good choice. and was a situation with covid nineteen bodyguard. Is that it contained or you'll have unfortunately, the numbers are rising up now and it's actually their affected a lot worse than they were the first time round and they believe it's because they kind of release some of the restrictions for Christmas and the years, so a lot of people spend time together. So there will be a new lockdown coming in. I think the government are going to be announcing it today, so it's kind of wait and see. That still well, well guide goes off. Anyway, let's get down to business, mark, so today we will be talking about how to get your lead research right. Search an important key, a limit of success is getting the research right. Absolutely. But before we get into the conversation, could you please tell us a little bit more about yourself, mark, and your career in the Vito beat says one of course. Yeah, so my career actually started around thirteen years ago, where I started in sales, pretty much as a business development wrap, but in the world of recruitment. So really you're selling two things, just selling an opportunity to a candidate and you're also selling a person to the hiring manager. So being able to sell probably one of the hard the things, which is a person with emotions and decisions and changing changing their decisions. They really gave me some very solid foundations in sales. I later in my career moved into marketing, but always been closely aligned with sales, and then more recently I ran a company called task drive, which is all about lead research and data Richmond. So in the just over the year that I spent there. I looked into over a hundred outbound campaigns to help our customers get more with the data that they were researching, which is where I develop these lead sourcing playbooks that we're going to talk about today. And then, just outside of that, I run an agency. Can speak on podcast. I do some work with product on boarding for SASS companies and I meant to start up screw growth, mental and scale wise. There you go. You never sleep, basically, no, I said, having having no family, no children, it gives me a little bit more time. So tell me about I've got two of US and yeah, it's it's it's challenging. Nothing to compare about that. Great Kids, but yeah, they does change your life for a little bit of Heere you touch on I'm actually my first question around the leadsourcing playbook. So you know, I guess we've all been there. I mean I have, maybe not all are listen out to their been there. But we...

...know the importance of getting your research right before you engage. You you contress, relay on data days, the good old day of speaking or targeting an excel spreadsheet and got in contact by contact. Going to the next one saying the same thing to a lots of people. That number of volume gay and stuff like that was maybe a thing in the sights. But you know, now you've got to walk a little bit harder. You need to look at triggirls, you to look at by your person as, you need to look at personal journey. You've got multie by your personal cycle. It is a little bit more complicated. You've got more milliums as well to touch people. So yeah, I guess. First question, and you your bridge quite nicely. Could you please walk us through some of the lead sourcing playbooks that you developed? Of course, of course, and where these lead sourcing playbers or where the inspiration came from? As I read, and I'm not sure if you've read, that the chet homes the ultimate sales machine. I came out and about two thousand and seven, but it's still as relevant as it was then a as is today. And in that book he mentions that only three percent of your market are actively buying. Seven percent may be interested in buying, but the remaining ninety percent just aren't in an active buying mode. So I started to ask myself the question, how do I find people who are more likely to buy? And the answer that I fell upon is relevance and timing. So when I started think about how do I identify relevancy and how do I identify timing, I started to think about, I guess, the triggers, all the events happening in my prospects lives that would be would signal that they're more likely to buy. So some of the lead sourcing players, and what I do is I'll name a few of them and we can dive into some that in a bit more detail. So they'll be something that you've heard before. I listened to Michael Hanson's podcast from a few weeks ago when you talked about the triggers. So raising around of funding is often a good sign that company is growing in therefore, they have new targets which they have they have to change the way that they've been working to achieve those targets. Another signal would be if they're currently hiring. So if they're growing into the in their team and they're expanding their team again, they may need new solutions. Other ones around the company is technology that they use. And then, from a persona point of view, so the actual prospect themselves, if they've just started a new role, that's a really good time to initiate conversations with a potential prospect because most people, when they start a new role, I have the motivation to change things, to do things differently and to really have a large impact on the business they're joining. So they have high much more likely to be in a buying mode as well. The technology they use, as I mentioned before, is another good one, but then also one one of my favorite ones, is that I called it the social expansion, with linkedin being such the platform is. There's lots of influences on their talking about various different topics and when a lot of people in their linkedin posts say, comment here to find out more. So if somebody's commenting on SAS pricing, for example, and the people are saying, and they've said comment here if you want the PDF, those three hundred people that wanted that pdf about SAS pricing obviously interested in learning more about SAS pricing and they may be looking for a new solution. So it's thinking about what happens, what are these events? What information can I see and really taking just a hypothesis that these people may be more likely to be interested in your product or solution or they have a problem that you can solve. Yeah, that mixed perfect sense and I believe that you've got a run fought. You know, display books. That's right, m yeah, there is, and I've put them all into a Webinar which we can link up to in the show notes. It's not behind a form or anything is. But anybody to listen to us about twenty minutes of me talking and explaining each other play books in a bit more detail interesting. Yeah, I'd like to. I'd like to get the letted it to look at them in detail. They had in the preparation of today at a dear friend day, tours and the kind of spirit abide, but they have not rais and to every single one of them, for I should definitely give it a good goal. Maybe you can orient me as well out of this...

...faulting blade books. Which one did you see companies getting the bed the best result from? Yeah, so it really does. As you know, with the companies and clients you work with, every company is very different. I'll give some examples of some of the campaigns I work with our customers. One was actually a friend of mine, was a cold email copywriter, and you'd think that they wouldn't be short of work, but they were looking to work with better, better companies and clients. So what we actually did, with what I helped my friend with, is I looked on product hunt, which is a website where lots of products are launched, and we looked at the cold email outreach tools such as lemolst mail, old shake, replied, I oh outreach, sales off and saw the people that were up voting and interacting with those products. So what we took the hypothesis was if somebody is up voting this type of product, then they're interested in using it and therefore they're interested in cold email. So we sent out a message to each of what we enrich the data and sent out message to each of those people once we quite kind of qualified them, to say we will review your cold email. So your cold email copy and if we think of an if we can think of any improvements, we will suggest those for you. We actually had to stop that campaign because after only about thirty messages the my boyfriend was just too busy to deal with any more inbound leads. And again it's because we were targeting people that we knew were interested rather than targeting every vp of sales in London, of which there's tens of thousands of on Linkedin. So it's really narrowing that three percent. Another another one that I've used quite successfully as the new technology. So we were working with a hub spot agency. So they help with hub spots, CMS and and the marketing automation. So what we did is we set up a trigger alert using similar tech, and similar tech allows you to say tell me when company and this location of this website size starts using a particular technology. We obviously chose hub spot, and then we we use that as the trigger to send out an automated email with some personalization, not not to personalize, which offered some value in the terms of content which we're here. Are the things to avoid when getting started with hub spot. And what they were doing was investing in depositing the good will and giving value in the in their prospects, so that when they did have a need, when they did have a challenge, these were the people that they thought of to come and work with. Another one of example before I take a pause, is we were working with a company in the cloud security space and they wanted to target people specifically that had this certification. So we looked at linkedin learning, where there was a pause about this particular piece of technology in the certification and we use that as the reason to reach out to people because we knew that they were certified, we knew that they would have the problem that the the software help them overcome. So it's all about thinking what is happening in my prospects life before they need the solution that I sell. Yeah, there's about find the tricker to the trigger to really get to the people who work in the market of maybe that buying, but at least interested to have a conversation the people. I can give you a yes or not. When do we do? When you do with the rest of the population. So do any of your playbooks are supporting people who are mine and tape off. I count they stape off approach where you know you can of good eat, two good years our way, where you're like, look, I really want to get into that company, then I need to find a trigger. I need to find a way to engage with them. So it's not about saying okay, what this is what I'm saying and this is what you push the arrested. So let's go and do some reverse search to trade to a notify the personage of the population, as you mentioned, at three five percent. But when you when you have to get in, do you have playbooks that support? That's in your in your you asked. Yeah, so there's a number of different software providers out there, but look at kind of the company level update. So where they raise around funding, there's mergers and acquisition activity, the opening up new offices, that hiring aggressively. They've raised around...

...a funding. All of those are triggers that people can use to reach out and sometimes in some campaigns you can mention that. Other Times you may not want to mention it and it just happens to be good timing that you're reaching out at that time. So that's often the follow up question I get asked is do you reference the trigger? And I think in some cases you can and in other cases you don't need to, but that's typically when your total addressable market might be a little bit smaller and you can spend a little bit more time doing research as well, especially if you're taken an account based marketing approach. Yeah, we do a found onto this. I think the first of it actually good that talization was probably Po back in two seals and probably five or six and I remember sitting next to a guy, British guy, was prospecting in the in the UK as a bdard the time myself and and he really wanted to get into British showers. He wanted to get some I can't remember what you were saying. I got frommember we which was a was the find where you really wanted to go into British always and a ton of research. And he was reading their their company public account announcement, like that quarterly announcement, and you know they kind of speak about what their strategic directions are. But then it just went on to Google and I think he was probably relatively new at the time. I don't know if Google was was just doing it or what, but he just got he found the news article. He managed to get to to look at news and if on an article in the financial time where they were speaking about British Airways requiring to do saving all across the business because the cost of carols and was going up. Okay, and obviously carn is what you put in the plane. And I remembering taking all that information, pissing it together and going straight at the top and se look based on what I've read all my desk research. You are looking at reducing cause I've been speaking with search and search vendor and we believe we can reduce your cost on that part for by approximatively twenty five percent. But I also believe that you promi spent around six to ten million peryer on there. So basically I've got two hundred million maybe of saving to suggest to you. Who is the best person to speak to about that, and people will actually helping to find the right guy, because at the time linkedin was not as predominant and people who wanted to Linkedin and and you had to prospect by his face to people. You spent to someone, you page them, they tell you something else, you speak to a PA, you page them and maybe it was another way of doing it and he actually managed to get a meeting and actually proves a Deil and I was a witnessing that yet sitting next to him. But you know, and that's really when I got the big click about look, it's not about me and what I've got to tell them, it's about them and what they're experiencing. How can I find, how can I find technically the trigger that, as you say you could. You could do a reverse such we could be based on the people. They dress, retreating someone new, dire in a new head of cell the they are speaking about doing a new talent program or they are raising some money for what's up, whatever reason. But for the larger company, like like like, like the Ba of this one and everything, it's often about what's happening in the accounts, it's about often what's happening in the news. It's everything is linked with the market share and all drive more from your market share. This is really what interested he suite because there public organization and as I started to document myself and really go with that approach to market and and and that helped me drastically not only in my career as a Videre but also, you know, understanding more what's happening at the c suite and really the conduction that people are having. Yeah, I think as well. You can do still pretty much most department subjectives, most that I've sold into the past, is either to make more money, so increase our revenue or reduce costs or be more efficient. So there's three objectives there that you could really target on when reaching out. An example of another customer that I've worked in the past. They're in...

...the pricing intelligence so they work with ECOMMERCE brands and retail stores and they help analyze what the competitors are doing. So they they're in a unique position where they have all this data. They just need to be pointed in the right direction to then to produce the valuable reporting from it. Their deal sizes are rather large, which means they're total and their total dresser market is fairly large as well. But they can take a very, very personalized approach their outreach. So what they do is they reach out to the five big leaders in whatever category that they're targeting and then offer to produce a competitor report for them. And it's producing value. And you know, yes, that requires some work. Does it scale? Not Really, but when the deal size justifies the effort that it takes to create that report, then it's worth it. Absolutely, absolutely. Yet next perfect sense mark, and you know, I would you suggest to sells people do use the context of the research when they reach out to company that they don't surveyed the most riven. So what's the best way to package it? I mean you mentioned could email, you know, but is there a better delivery method, a bit or sequence, a better basically, I would you go abody if there is a myth a Su yeah, so I still believe cold calling is one of them fight most effective channels when it comes to sales, but it really just depend who you're selling to as well. If you're selling to trade these like electricians and planners, they're not going to be answering email, so I wouldn't suggest email. Picking up the phone and speaking to them is going to be more helpful, but at the same time, depending on your the immaturity of the prospects, you don't want to spook them. Okay, so I think for sales and marketing people they know what reverse Ip look up is, which is when somebody visits your site from an office, you can tell that person's a Putt your website, whereas a teacher or maybe even a HR manager may not be that technically a technology be aware of the technology. So it really does depend on the prospect I think you can reference certain certain triggers if they're raised, if they're if they raise around a funding, if they've if they're currently hiring, because it's obvious it's public data. Anybody can see that the key is, though, not to pitch your product or service. It's really to start with a question. I think my main methodology when it comes out bound is that it's not about a booking appointment, it's about starting conversations. So I always like to lead with questions, to really probe on the pain that I think that they may be experiencing by asking them, are you experiencing this pain? Yeah, that makes sense. Well, you know what, even some days whatever, seen walking on May sad these getting ahead of the calf. So, you know, made be funding? May it be made beer from a technology best big, if so, founding example. You know, one of the things that we do radicts we actually try to engage with company prefunding. We spend a amount of time working with cubators and trying to meet with people who are basically they don't have any money, they've got Alpha functional product but a great big ide and we start speaking to them about what the market is like our then we start the conversation really early, because what we see. We see that some triggirls like foundings on crunch base are being absolutely used and abused by thousands of people. Literally the day it's announced you've got. I don't know, many alierts going out. Everyone is too late. People are just overweent and all those that we not speak to them prior to them getting any money are now very interesting to speak to them and and that's why we try to get early. But we've also seen it sometimes using a bit of a change or self speech, and I think one of the best example was the first one where we really recognize that. We worked with with a company called trend micro. have been a client for a while, but at some points of the d their life cycle they are called a company called Sub Brigade that was managing vulnerabilities in virtualize environment. Okay, that's kind of the idea like, but back to when we back in the days, everybody was doing a bit of your astralization, but people would just have a couple of servers doing...

...that realition, not a lot of your realization. I was the beginning of m were okay, and we are just getting that resistance of people not getting it, and what we decided to do is to change the message around. And so look, it's very simple. If you have not at least certain percent of your park virtual eyes, if you're not embracing the journey to yourtrualization. Let's not waste any more time. You're not a pioneer and of person we want to speak to. Plus, you don't have the attic of managing vulnerabilities. You probably put part of your infrastructure, if you don't care about on the virtualize enrollment. So, you know, let's not talk to you. I just want to assess that and by saying that you can of make them think my, my, doing the right thing, and also you will have people as well. Look, no, I'm not, but in the next two to three as I'm planning on doing it. And then trend, as a client, was good enough to say we want to speak to those people early. We want to tell them about the jolley. Why? Because they needed security. would be a foot on the break for the journey to your autualization. Like, like you mentioned, with your cloud security. Customers. Security is the foot of the break for the move to the cloud. You know, most people don't do it because it's probably better to ever server on the tape in a in a in a in some sort of safe whatever. Sayf say safely. You have to be made a big door whatever. But that's the things. Once you get this trigger you can really speak about. Look, why are you in your journey? I am led to belie that organization of your size, the people I'm speaking to, any organization, they are really leading to the cloud. You'R chies that I don't nor Mus you are pushing. So are you the leader or follower when it comes to plant and then you you can have get the feeling and it's about getting them at the right time. But sometimes what we've seen very for the largest dives, for the disruptive, for the mocks, more complex sense is to get people involved before the actually of the trigger. So really when they're in the planning of thinking, okay, I really should push that, but this is already issue of God less of us off things to do, and you're going to give them label moment while they're like, okay, you know what, that's actually putting most of my consult at race now. So let's actually accelerate that, because that would really live on value for my business. Yeah, I think it's a really it's a really good example and I want to share an example which I wasn't involved in, but I listen to the story and it's a software called gorgeous. Their help their software for ECOMMERCE, orcause. Gorgeous. Yeah, yeah, are you familiar with them? No, no, no, no, anyone. I think it's a French company. So I may have announced it wrong, but I'm reading it as it as it looks. I'm saying as it looked. They they essentially use the trigger of somebody installing a live chat software on their ECOMMERCE site, so shopify in particular. So it looked at all shopify sites that had started using live chat. Now, when somebody just starts using live chat, that's not the time for gorgeous. It doesn't help them when they've just got one or one or two chats coming in an hour. It really hurt. They it really come. The product really comes into its own once it has high volume and it uses ai to help understand the the sentiment and all the different questions. You know, there's got I'm not a salesperson gorgeous, so I'm probably butchering their pitch. However, what they did is they started to build that relationship with these shopify store owners as they were growing and they geared a lot of their content to say here's how you grow your ecommerce brand. So here's how you market your etommost. Here's how, here's the ultimate guide to facebook ads in two thousand and eighteen, whatever it may be. Again, this company isn't a FACEBOOK AD agency. It's not selling them that service, but they're providing value to help get their customers to the point where they would need a solution like gorgeous. And again, who's the person that they're going to go to when they're saying, well, my help desk is overwhelming, I need to employ more customer experience professionals, or do I just need a solution that can help find the efficiencies in the support that we were giving? And that's actually how they grew very quickly and generates their first a thousand customers. Was Investing in providing value and, like I say, the Challenger cell. They're of like...

...helping people, asking questions, making sure that they are are they aware of what we do and how we do it? But yeah, that's the story of how gorgeous created their first thousand customers. And just another example, slightly away from sales, I used to work in the data center industry for a design and build company. So they built data centers or design and build them, and there's a huge conference every year in that the XCEL and London. It's almost a Kloma along. It's a huge exhibition. One year we decided not to go and get the big stand that they normally did and I managed to secure around two Thousan pounds to put behind a bar. And the reason I did that is because I knew the majority of people are middle aged men and they like golf so and they like beer. So we put on a happy hour, we rattled off a golf trip ticket. But really what people are interested in is finding out what other what their peers are doing, and especially in this world of the data center industry. From that, from that event we ran the company was able to build the relationship with a prospect that've been trying to reach and the turn into a ten million dollar deal. And then that actually replicated into a further ten million dollar deal. After they delivered the data center, they were asked to replicate it in America. So almost twenty minute, twenty million dollars off two thousand pounds ad spend, again just by connecting people and putting peers in the same room, giving them some beer and the opportunity to win a golf trip. So again it's going back to your point, is about thinking about what do they really want? They want to learn, they want to know whether they're doing a good job. They want to understand from you, who has a unique insight into hundreds of campaigns, a hundreds of customers, and learning from your insights is one of the best ways to kind of build yourself at sorry, position yourself as a trusted advisor and not that salesperson. Yeah, yeah, I knew there is bier involved. You make thing even better. So the happy days. Yeah. So thanks for that, Mark. It was a great chat. which we do at the stage of the of the conversation and just to close off, is to ask our guests to tell us how our listen. I can get in touch with them they wish to carry on the conversation or if they want to speak to you about speak on podcasts or the sensine back acaded me show up, except as rock. So what is the best way to get to hold of your bout? Yeah, the best way to reach me is Linkedin, so you can search for Mark Colgan and there's not too many of the Mark Hogan's on there. And if you want to find out about some of the other projects, I'm working on. Then I have a website, Mark Colgan dot code at UK. Perfect. Well, it was great to have you on the podcast today, so thank you very much for your time. Thank you very really appreciate it. Take a operatics has redefined the meaning of revenue generation for technology companies worldwide. While the traditional concepts of building and managing inside sales teams inhouse has existed for many years, companies are struggling with a lack of focus, agility and scale required in today's fast and complex world of enterprise technology sales. See How operatics can help your company accelerate pipeline at operatics dotnet. You've been listening to be tob revenue acceleration. To ensure that you never miss an episode, subscribe to the show in your favorite podcast player. Thank you so much for listening. Until next time,.

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