B2B Revenue Acceleration
B2B Revenue Acceleration

Episode · 2 months ago

124: The Great 2022 Outsourced Sales Development Industry Survey


Does it ever make sense to outsource the whole SDR team? If you do, what questions should you be asking and what expectations should you set? 

In this special episode of B2B Revenue Acceleration, Aurelien Mottier, CEO and Co-founder at Operatix joined David Dulany, Founder and CEO at Tenbound at the latest Sales Development Conference. 

Here, they take a look at the Sales Development Outsourcing Survey 2022, which offers an exclusive look into the state of the industry. As well as this, they discuss:

  • How much to outsource
  • Need for speed, especially for startups
  • A mindset of inclusivity for outsourced team members      

More information about today's guests:

To hear this interview and many more like it, subscribe to B2B Revenue Acceleration on Apple Podcasts,Spotify , our website , or anywhere you get podcasts.

... stay on the cutting edge of sales and marketing in their industry. Let's get into the show. In this special episode of Bahb Revenue Celeration, will be hearing from host or alien motier and CEO of ten bound, David Delaney. They discuss the sales development outsourcing report at the recent ten bound conference, offering an exclusive look and how industry leaders use outsourced s to your agencies. Well, hello everybody, I'm back. I haven't I haven't moved, but the conference has moved on. That was a great session we just had with Sean at Zoom Info, and I am honored and blessed to introduce the next guest. I call him by his nickname because I can't say his first name. Ray. How are you today? I'm very good, David, and very good right. Thanks for jumping on and thanks to operatics for helping us to run the great two thousand and twenty two outsource industry survey. We're just honored and and and so grateful for your support on this. Yeah, so pleasure, David. We think the fostome the MIT. You, while just starting. Ten bounds still going. We know ways to start a business. I love what you're doing. As I said to you many times, I think there is not enough people who are trying to help those a sens professional organization, Bos trulie around the the sence of development pace. So as soon as we knew that you are doing a bit of four research, we wanted to add which we think is normally spots and being the community. Absolutely, and I mean this is a big endeavor at you know, when when we interact with executives, and so you know, essentially ten bound works with executives on the go to market side, CMOS and and VP's of sales who sales development as one of their responsibilities, the managers and directors like Sean from Zoom Info, and and then all the SDRs, especially on the executive side. They're wondering. They need pipeline, they need sales pipeline and they they're doing a ton of marketing activities, they're building their brand, they've got a great sales team but they don't have enough pipeline, and so they will hire an SDR team. They'll have a great SDR manager, but one of the pieces of the puzzle, especially if they're going after a niche market, is should we get involved? Should we use an outsourced agency and outsourced SDR agency? And that's one of the burning questions. And they you know, they start to go onto Google and talk to their friends and there's just not a lot of good benchmark reporting on that topic. And and so this is the second year that we've run the great ten bound operatics, sales development outsource survey. And so, just to give you that context, we got over two hundred and fifty responses asking a series of questions on how people think about hiring an outsource agency and when it's a win, it's the right move, and what their sentiment has been on working with companies like yours. So, Ray, when I first met you I was consulting with a cyber security company, right and and if you remember, you came in and did a presentation. It was it was terrific and you, in starting the company really focused on building pipeline in the cyber security area. Is that right? Yeah, we started, we say both security. We wutanistic. Now, so we have not take fin take lots of infrastructure, stiller, not of Saber. It's a very insistuous world. People get a quailed move on to another company to take us...

...with them. I guess the brands are not the most loyals because they did have stuff. You know, a P company, P from gets involved, people sell out and wants want to move on to someone's. But but the individual, the actual contributor, the VP marketing, the VP send the Clod, the crows, the CEO's are relatively loyal to us and always come back to us when they started the new venture. So we've had that side that has been doing very well. But now sign or security on you represent around at suppers. Some too fall revenue and we are doing much more in time of big data, infrastructure matake, fintake and we have created puds. So what we beat if we bed that. We need to be an expert in which you do. So we've got puts of fixed pertise for each of these different type of solution and it's about them or something with people speak around the bolt table ready. And if you want to be good at productive it stot about your product. It sort about your every proposition. It's about what's happening into organizations, so intelligence on what's going on. It's what's fuel the success of our team. Yep, and if there's a lot of ways to think about this. So as a leader of sales development, you know you you want to think the next level up in your organization. What are the CMOS and VP's really concerned about? And and you know one of the main pieces is we need to build pipeline and and so that's when it comes down. Do we hire an internal team? Do we use an outsource team? Do we blend the to you know, what's our next move here? And so one of the key characteristics, I'll get into the survey, but one of the key characteristics that you mentioned is the expertise in the industry that you're calling on and and understanding the industry and the personas and the vocabulary to the degree that you're almost fluent in that and and you can be more effective in your messaging under the person. I mean, the way I would have character is it is speed. You know, semo, Sia rows. They need speed, particularly if you're speaking to an early stage company or if you're speaking to a scale up. They won't spit. The day they made the decision to alsource, they already three months behind. All right, so they want you to get going. The expectations are really I and the first thirty, sixty, ninety days absolutely critical. And Yeah, I think speed is the is the most important aspect that do CMOS and siarrows are looking for, and the expect is is linked to it, because if you know the market, if you've got data in the market, if you know the accounts, if you know what's happening in this organization, of course that with that will add the speed. So I would say speed is probably the most predominant things that those guys after. Yep, and and one of the big questions that we get at ten pounds. Should I just outsource the whole a SDR team, which is kind of scary, you know, because I grew up in the s right and so if you got outsource, that means you're such ally thrown out on the street. It was a bad time. But but you know that that's the main question. Or should I have only an inhouse team or potentially bland? So let's let's dive into the survey because we go into some of those questions. Yep, okay, so the respondence people wise. So interesting on this front is that most of the people that responded are in a managerial role or an executive role. So they're they're thinking about this and the survey appeal to them because they really wanted to get a free copy of the report, which we have. Actually it's in the it's in the chat from opera attics and and so they want to understand which, which of these should I...

...do and create that benchmark. Most of the companies that responded are in the US, just as smattering from from Europe, and that's probably because ten bound is based in the US and most of the people that are involved in this or in the US. And and then average sale price is pretty much across the board. But the meaty meaty part is, you know, a midsize to sort of entry level and the entry level enterprise deal. I just want to share I'm getting a SDR call right now live on the interview and it's marked a spam. So we did a interview a while ago on how to get around that. So make sure if your calls are being marked with spam, you have to do some stuff on the back end. But anyways, how long is your average deal cycle? So again we're getting into like the entry level enterprise and that could be again the the Tho that were focused on because, ray, I know a lot of your clients. They are actually large deal enterprise accounts that you work withs are correct? Yeah, it's correct. I think the the we've developed a bit of a reputation to a disruptive vendors and we like to operate in the enterprise world. We like to be a little bit more account base maybe then some other companies. We do a fair amount of you know, I can see the on the sledge. You've got tear like appointment setting, in bound sales. These are the classic services, right, but the account based out bound I think is recent thing that not only our clients are struggling to do, but other agencies don't know how to start. And and this is a bit of an art about you know, how do you open the door? And I'll do you then do the deep Dave in the account when you saying something and there is multi by your personnel and you want that to create that consensus where everybody can make a decision and decide for the solution. So I find quite interesting that the event registration is low, but that's probably due to covied and the that people are struggling to get face to face into events. But what I would say that even registration should be part of an appointment setting on account base, out bounds program I don't three on dozen way people do adduct around. You know what you've got amounts, David. Here is a list of two hundred people. I want an attendant. I think that's not quality. I think what should happen is we work together or we are your team. Okay, we are targeting those people any way, and the even should only be one cold call, a faction or call to action. Okay. So you could do emost use the event as an excuse to go back to a notch ring put or you could use the event as as a way to get someone that doesn't want to get an appointment with you, because that's the problem of appointments. At incompaign, you called prospect because you want an appointment with them and sometimes because you want the appointment so bad you forgot to focus on the essence of the conversation. And when you forget, when you focus on the essence of the conversation, you often get you often get what I would say as a by product that meeting coming your way anyway. So it's kind of interesting the way it works. But yeah, we all do. Services. Are Things that we do. Lie Generation Not so much. We leave that to marketing. If I've got to go downder something of generation and list management again, I think we will be too expensive. We don't offshore any resources. So you know, if you want to do listen management, do it. Do it some much shape. Don't do it with people based in London or that. That are solved another yeah, I mean this is actually really surprising to me because if you think about it like a like a funnel, sort of the very very top of the funnel is just identifying people, getting them some information, maybe getting them interested in turning an event and things like that. And and yet the number one, you know, almost twenty percent of the respondense was...

...appointment setting, which is like way down the final I mean, they have to know about you, they got to kind of trust you, and I got to give you fifteen percent of your time. So that was surprising actually. Yeah, but you know, the the the outbound appointment setting is again to think we'll come back to your question later about when they should do should absource everything on that, but it's more, I think is more difficult. The appointment setting and the account based album is more difficult for insight teams for the simple reason they tend to be brainwashed about the product and the functionalities and if you lead an outbound conversation with with functionalities and how your products is the best on the market, you know people won't respond to that. People respond about what the problems are, what issues they are facing, and if you can't correlate the two, your chances of getting an appointments are really slim. So asking people what they would out source, I'm not sure prise appointment is coming up. My bits of pride that outbound seals isn't a little bit higher because we see a lot of people at once more lack of complete cell cycles and they want to add solves that completely, particularly for meat market stuff. But there you go. Yeah, and and I'll cut to the chase. I mean it. We we recommend really is that you have both, because you can see, you can see, you know in talking with with Ray, that the learnings and the insights and the expertise that an outsource agency can bring can feed into the learning in and the playbook of your internal team and you can go back and forth with with an outsource agency. You don't have the talent pipeline, you know, to work into your that Sean was just talking about in Zoom Info. But you can get better results faster at the same time. So why not have both? But anyway, that's just overall recommendation that we make when people ask about this, and I think it. You know, if you look at the next the question, does it ever make, sir, make sense, to completely outsource? We got a strong response. There was like sixty eight percent. Yeah, either strongly or slightly agree. And you know that's counterintuitive, because what are your what are your thoughts on that? And, fast and foremost, imagine if we sponsor the survey and you have only people disagree. Who is it? So I'm quite glad, man who that's it. Relax now. Now I think I think you made you made you made a very good point. I believe it's a question of stage in your life. Okay, you know, you, you you, you come out. If I take an example, when I was a students and I had to paint wool or fix something in my house, I would probably go to the shop by some paint and do it myself. I would not out sourced. You don't really have the money to do it, could do it myself. He was not a big place or whatever. Now I had I outsource absolutely pretty much everything. Okay, because I mean a position where and in my time back and, quite frankly, if someone else do it before, we are likely to do it better than me. But I was not in that mindset right so yeah, I think there is that. I think you made a fantastic point about people should outsource to any you when you alsoso the right company, you should get inside. That really helps you to understand what's happening in your market, what the prospect are saying, what's the voice of the customer? What are the system that I should use? What sequence you should they build? What's My SDA playbook looks like, etc. Etc. If you work with an expert, and I say that two lots of clients who ask me the question should out socially and not out source. Well say to them as look, you are small people. You would not be on that job being paid big money in a text startup or tax scale up if you are not smart. So, quite frankly, you can do it yourself. If you come to us, you can either...

...do it in three months, six months and get it to work. But if you do it on your Aly, may take you nine months, twelve months to figure out how to make it work. So really is a question of how quickly do you need it and when you get to that conversation. That's why I think, you know, people are more keen to also, in the first place is for the speed of execution. Again, get in the resource. Yeah, I think when my dears rusher start working and I could spend, you know, five hours on Youtube and buying all these manuals and I swear I could fix it at some point, but my wife called my eye to know me to take the tool box out of the garage and hem like now it sounds like a lovely she knows me when that's good. So yeah, we and and again. You know, we got great results from it, so it definitely works. So if they're thinking, they're like, okay, we have an eternal team. We Love them, they're doing a great job, but we need more pipeline and we need it fast. We need an expert in the industry. How do we set up an agency for success to either integrate or to take over the sales development program yeah, so that's a fantastic topic ause actually to pick that we are we are looking at in a lot of detail with our customer success team, I'll sense team, and operation guys. The reason why we're looking at it in details is that we have we've had a little bit less satisfaction from newish clients towards the Sou Gond half of two thousand and twenty one, and I think the reason behind that is big. We've been a little bit victim of all success and we have a good reputation in the market and world of mouth. Good at operatic sticks or your problem. Okay. So people come and I'll sense team would probably not bring enough friction in the process. So people come, we get things going very quickly. We get going and then we find an all dul and those are door. We try to fix it. We, we, we obviously canly bright, but perception can go very quickly. Okay. So now what we are doing is really working on that enablement, okay, and setting expectation, spending time with our prospect really bringing friction in the cycle, almost telling them this is the list of things that could go wrong and this is the process we've got for every single one of them, and we wanted to show you that, because, no matter if you do it with us or with someone else, on your own, decide the issue that we will face. Okay, so I think that's extremely important. The other thing is that we need to agree with clients. At enablements is one thing, but nobody comes out of an onwnboarding and those are to do something. So ongoing training is also very important. How do we do that? Ongoing training? Treating the team as an extension. Again, if you're going to add source, don't treat them as a supplier or don't treat them as a sort party. Are People at are lower? Just bring them as part of the team, make them feel good. What on the psychology? If people like you, they will work out of for you. If they don't let you, you'll struggle to get things from them. Okay, that's kind of common sense. But again, sometimes we've got plans that don't turn up to weekly business for you, don't turn up to monthly business for you, and they expect is fine, because they are busier than us. But when you don't get the support, when you don't get the love, it's a bit difficult to give the love back. Okay, so if you want a hundred percent of the people you've got. You've got to make them feel good understanding the challenge of running a team. I mean again, it's kind of coming back to bringing the friction. They will be Tourne over in an SDR team. You know, in your previous conversation with shown me that show yer. Just want to make Chub about his name. He was talking about people being promoted internally. Okay, what we suggest to our clients is when we're going to introduce you to your video as? Yeah, I've a chat about the carrier path, so they can tell you what they want to do. Maybe you've got an opportunity for them. Maybe we can work to together to get that...

...guy of that girl working on the program for nine months, twelve months feel great, a good job, and then we'll help them to move to their next the next part of that career path. Okay, but being very clear and transparent about it is refreshing. You know, when we've got clients say, you know, David's got to stay on my compaign. I don't care if if he's got all the right attribute to become a manager. Is a great videas yea for me. If you remove him I'm leaving you guys. Usually we say to the clients, okay, go, because it's people. First is those guys have worked six months, nine months, ten months, eighteen months on your program. Now they want to progress. Guess what, I was that guy, you are, that Guy David. We would have been those guys. We've got to give them their chance. So these are the thing that are also very important. And then the last one is using the insights provided. You know, it sounds bizarre, but sometimes people get with us or get with an outsourcer and they kind of force you the way of doing things. And what one of the most the best example is someone coming up and so I've got a script. Say Okay, show me your scrapes. Let say yeah, the script that we use with the last three agencies and then we use it with a team that we build internally. Never really worked, but I'm pretty sure that with your reputation, you give me work. So we just take it, shoot, tear it apart and say no, let us lead, let us show you, let us be, give you the guidance. And sometimes some of our clients, I don't like some of the feedback we've got to give them because it's extra walk because it's not as easy and plain seeling as they were expecting it to be. But you know, in any relationship, I think you need friction if you only to grow and and and that's what we're trying to do. Because, yeah, what is too easy? When clients come because their friend to you that you are the best things in slice bread. They come in, they just give you everything they've got, they don't negotiate, they don't want to ask the question. You go and then they realize that it's not what they were expecting because that perception was perfect. And this average, because at the beginning of a program is difficult, right, so you've got to accept calibration. That's why they should come. But so, yeah, so what I would say is break bit of friction, treat the team as an extension of yours, as your friends, as your kids are whoever. But give them respect and you're going to get respect back and use the insight that we, the are also will provide to get better. Completely and and as a part of the survey, we did interviews with five or six top sales and marketing leaders and it's exactly to your point. The one of the the the thought process of a lot of people outsourcing is set it and forget it. Yeah, it's like here, Ray, I've got this huge, big, ugly problem. You take it, I gotta go do something else. And and that's that's where it sort of goes off the rails, right, because you you've got to be involved. You would never do that with an internal as Dr Team unless you are really lousy. Yeah, BPOR director, you wouldn't just set them up and put them in the corner and think that they're going to produce. But people do that with the outsource agencies. And Yeah, and let's comment on that, is the amounts is probably I would say that around eighty percent of the clients that leave us for that pastation and sell. Yeah, you know what I will do. It is going to be better if I do it myself. I would say eighty person come back to a six months later after training it themselves and they just come back. And so you know what's okay, okay, guys, all right, we get it now, and sometimes you need that. You know, it's an important step, because the game, the grass slop Gren now. So let's go that when but it doesn't taste as nice. It's just so yeah, you know,...

...there's no silver bullet and and you know it's interesting because we see this at our clients. It's IT'S A it's a pendulum. You know, they'll go, I'm going to try in house SDR it doesn't work, we'll get rid of them, we'll go with an agency. That didn't work, we'll go back to it. And you know, and then people are always coming in and out of the company. You know, they only stay at the company for one or two years and then they moved to the next company and it's just this ongoing it's it doesn't create an excellent pipeline production machine, it's this jalopy. I don't know if you're Eli with that. I've got time for one more question. Rate. This all been so interesting. Thank you for sharing your knowledge and I forgot to mention also visit the booths. You can get a free copy of the report that we're talking about for planning. You can meet with the operatics team. They're over in the virtual booth and get more information and also Zoom Info, you know, and the other sponsors have their booth there. One last question from IDO at. I hope I'm saying that right. TCK. He's I've met him before. He's developing a sweet intelligence product. How do you get your intelligence to your SDRs and bedrs so that they can come up to speed quickly? I have something interesting to say. Yeah, so we've boot we when we will own in your face and we will small company. We used to cull it the meacat system. You know, the market a dose, little things that just stand up and if this is something they just speak to each other and they all know and then they go in the hole together. That was the mere cat right. You've got the you've got the separator and you just stopped your eys and you just say, you know what, I get this. I've got that. The intelligence was flowing that way with GDPR and things like CCPA in the US. You've got to be a little bit more careful with what you are end laying. But what we've built, because I appreciate need to be conscious of time, is that for every single one of our clients, we found a system that is basically a multi tenancy crm. So we can we can run a company in their own little silo, in their own little environment, but we have a two way synchronization with a platform that we call CID. Social intelligence at a day is so basically a few David, you gonna call on to an accounts, update some contact details, update some intelligence on the account, such as, okay, those guys are looking at reducing operational cause by twenty percent. Okay, we can't say they have a project on this. We can say this or that, because we kind of information flewing from one clients to the other. But the other arcing intelligence, which is checked by your quality team, will then go into the system, which means that if you are, if your colleague done with working in another states is kind of targetting the same accounts, but for another company, that twenty percent increase of productivity or efficiency, they will get the pop up saying that company has en. You'll talk, get pleased. I'm looking after that and basically, do you have a very proposition at he's renivant to that, to that. So social indisions at the base, mount to tennancy, crm and basically two aldred and fifty people that are cleansing our data everyday worldwide, which are the people do the job. Wow, okay. So, and I'm going to connect you with Ido because it is good. He's amazing. So you know it sounds like you got it all figured out, but you can always always use some more. So, Ray, thank you again. Thank you for supporting the survey. Everybody, go to the booth, grab the survey, talk to operatics and next up James Barton, who is an amazing sales development leader in the cyber security space. Right you should. You should jump into this next one. Look he's going to talk about I mean he's been going up through the ranks to run a huge sales development programs and he's going to share his...

...five pearls of wisdom with us for sales development leadership. Ray, thank you so much for jumping on and we'll see you next talk. Absolutely pleasure. Thank you, David. You've been listening to be tob read the new acceleration. To ensure that you never miss an episode, subscribe to the show in your favorite podcast player. Thank you so much for listening. Until next time,.

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