B2B Revenue Acceleration
B2B Revenue Acceleration

Episode 136 · 2 months ago

136: How to Leverage Buyer Job Movements to Win More Deals


When attempting to close more deals, it's common for business leaders to focus on making new connections and building brand awareness with prospective customers.

While this is an important step in accelerating sales, they often forget to leverage their existing business relationships and personal contacts. After all, a previously loyal customer moving jobs is a great trigger to engage in a sales conversation.

It's also all too common for companies to fail in effectively keeping track of the aforementioned contacts, or to simply forget to nurture the relationship and keep in contact consistently.

Leveraging buyer job movements can drastically help to increase closing rates and boost revenue growth, so it’s well worth sustaining and strengthening network connections.

To help with this, our host Aurelien Mottier (Co-Founder and CEO, Operatix ) sat down with Christian Kletzl (CEO at UserGems). They discuss best practices for leveraging both current relationships and buyer movements to win more deals, as well as interesting statistics that prove its importance.

To hear this interview and many more like it, subscribe to B2B Revenue Acceleration on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, our website, or anywhere you get podcasts.

You weren't listening. To be. To be revenue acceleration a podcast dedicated to helping software executives stay on the cutting edge of sales and marketing in their industry. Let's give them to the show. This podcast is sponsored by Gong. Gong empowers your entire go to market your organization by operationalizing you almost valuable asset, your customer interactions. Transform your organization into a revenue machine or unlocking reality and helping your people reach their full potential. Get started now at Gong dot Io. Hi you welcome. To be. To be a revenue acceleration. My name is m here and I'm here today with Christian Glatzel. See you and go from dot whose or gems. How are you doing to the eight? Christian? Al Right, pretty good. I mean San Francistco and I think with one of the warmest, most pleasant days, so I think it's it's a really good day. Well, that's good to add. Today one labor days. You're living the Austrian time in the US and being with us. Thank you so much for being with us on Labor Day. Would you mind giving us a little bit of an introduction to yourself, but also the organization that you're president choose on gems. Yes, superhappy. So you mentioned already a little bit. I'm originally from Austria, born in Saltzburg, which I think, at least for the American it's the sound of Music Association that typically comes to Saltzburg. Worked there for Microsoft, like, studied their work there and then came to the US to do my m B A and started working here, worked at Google and then um about a few years ago, started the company us a chance, together with my identical twin brother. So it's especially September is all about conferences and I think in conferences is always really dangerous. Have you talked to me or have you talked to my twin brother and CO founded? Because for some people it's really hard to differentiate. Absolutely you are exactly identical. I think. If you ask other people, I think the answers. Yes, I think JEN UH. I think it's hard. If you if you just get to know us, I think it's hard to different that's that's kind of funny. I'm sure you event lots of lots of interesting confusing, confusing conversation with lots of people. When you who walk around an event in someone grab you. Yeah, it's always like you, do I know this person and I forgot, do not know this person? Is always like the very first question for myself. That's pretty cool. That's pretty good, I think. Don't remember the name of someone and they catch you can just pretend that you are your brother. Fantastic situation as well. Yeah, so what did you that you guys do? I choose our gems, as you mentioned, chopped by a movement. So basically we automate pipeline by turning buyers Chop Movement into hopefully a R R. So Um in this we focus on two components. So it's you have this this large list of people that that bought your product, will use your product, and we all know people are changing the job more rapidly than ever before. And so when these people moved to new orgast stations, what the very best stays people should be doing is actually like noticing this, tracking and down, reaching out to these people again and making sure that once they settled, then organization, hey it could there be a need for the product again. So that's really what we do. Is like the larger the list the better, because about twenty percent of people change their job every year. So, depending on the size of the organization, this can actually be really meaningful in terms of like seeing thousands or tens of thousands of past buyers and users change their job. Ye, see that. That's really useful. Uh, and I think you know I wanted you to really voise that for audience because obviously we were speaking together. So I know I know what your company does, but one of the reasons why we wanted to speak to you today is because it's such and and particularly let me step back a little bit. We we started to really push what we call the customer success Johnny autopatics Um and as we are growing, most of the people that we are on the trenches selling or operating the business...

...are kind of getting more and more away from the business. Okay, but also because we've been at it for eleven years now, pretty much a lot of clients, a lot of individual within clients organization that is a progressed internally or externally the organization. So they've got differ drops somewhere else. A fair few have retired as well and they go fishing now of some of other stuff. And then there is all the new ones that are coming in. But it's our sells team closing them. It's more for maybe some of the less senior operation people dealing with the campaign. So we don't see them. And I was asked to build a list of all my I'd like to call some of them close friends, so people we've been doing business with, people where I know there is a respectful, you know, engagement and literally in certain years I was able to scribble three pages on my notebook. So there's quite a few people and when you think about what you've got, that linked and you see all the connection got in common and then it's kind of it's kind of very granular and sending a few emails to those people to say hey, here is an update, this is what we're trying to do, we've spoken for a little while. You always get something back. It is all a great conversation or and I collect for what you've done or an update on their life from news about kids being born or whatever. But you're right, you also get a lot of business. So yeah, I guess my question to you is it's all good that I'm doing that. Now he's making and thinking about it, but how important is the consistency in that process and how do you keep it consistent, because that has been my issue. My issue is that I've got those people and I'm very opportunistic myself to reach out to them. I think they are really opportunistic themselves, and we only reach out each other technically when we eat each other. Is that? I don't know. Yeah, man, on on so many things that are important. I think that that the biggest one is actually how difficult this is to do it at scale, like I mean you're talking, you're thinking about the relationships and the people that you know, and then you go to your sales team and they have their own people that they know, but certainly maybe a sales person like leaves your organization and certainly the knowledge of the salesperson and the relationships they have also leave. But I think that that's that's actually touched on the most important thing that you said, which is like this kind of like a little bit being opportunistic, and I think that's what you say, where it's all about creating actually a relationship. So we need to think more the B two. B thinking always was about like these our organizations that buy my product, but more and more we actually should learn from B to see where it's all about actually the individuals. It's not the organization that advice the product, it's the individual that advised the product. It's the individual that uses it, it's the individual that's the champion. So if we, if you apply more a B to c thinking versus to be thinking, then this means that now I have a relationship with a ton of individual people, and in relationships it's it's really important that I think about how can I also provide value into this relationship, and I obviously provide value with my product. I also provide value in a situation where maybe I don't immediately directly get something out of it, and that's why how can I stay in touch with this person and, for example, I connect with them on Linkedin, or sometimes you you give before you get, like if if this person used my product and now maybe the company has some difficulties, maybe there layoffs, and I can practively reach out and see how I can help this person. Now, how can I help them with introductions, like sometimes I can make sure that if this is, for example, a saying Lather, then I can introduce them to other companies that are now that are currently looking for slast. So I think really changing this from okay, it's a business relationship, to actually a bit to see it's it's it's a real relationship between people. Yeah, I really love what you are saying about providing some value. That is not, you know, using my stuff straight away. And and the example all of helping them to find a...

...job or helping them to where the few people had had to lay off people in the team and did not really have a house for them, like you know that, and they were feeling bad because they were maybe laying off people for the wrong reason, and reaching out and said look, we could speak to them, we can try. You know, it's kind of cool, but I was trying with my team to think about some other stuff we could do. How can we bring value without being pompous, you know, without being painful, without sending too many messages, because I think there is a there is a thin line Um. So so what are the type of activities have you seen being successful in that sort of you know, bringing values but without being too much of in the face? It's always good to put yourself into their shoes and I think, at least for me, this doesn't come natural. So it's kind of like, Um, what are they going through in the situation. There could be something that could be something negative. This could be something positive if they started in job somewhere. Um, but there's still this anxiety of like, okay, now I have all this pressure of performing at the beginning. So, for example, what we've seen is, Um, let's maybe see this person. They were my customer, my relationship here. They moved to a new organization. Um, if I know what job they're doing now, is there something like some information I can provide, for example, if someone Um starts as a new VP of sales? I reached out a few times to people and said, Hey, I just saw it from the other side, because we just tired advp of sales. Here are the things that I think should matter like to you. Hear the things that I think matter to your boss and and just provide a little bit more information. And, by the way, he is a blog post that's really helpful in the first three six and she's to be to be nest with you, the two things that I'm really doing myself is a little bit of Gossiping. You know, people want to know what other people are doing. So when you happen to know a lot of people in the same sort of space, they cannot know what the movements are and they want speak about the industry and what's happening, what's selling, what's not selling, what's going on and stuff like that. So that's probably around I'd say, Seventy eight parts of my conversation and then the rest is very much the first one, which is really around the job. So I see something moving or see them looking for something or them posting something on Linkedin and in steff responding to Australians and them a DM or called the mobile, or as them what'Sapp you know, and say hey, we've not connected. I know someone who's done that. So it may not be a job, but it's about connecting people with each other. We were trying to think about what else can we do and it's always quite interesting that that sort of line of bringing value without being too much in their face, because you don't want to break this relationship by being too needy. At the same time. That's kind of from leading me to another thing that I've seen Makee tehim doing and again. You know, for me Christian, I say to myself as get my videas, have been a videre myself, you've got to be a portunistic. If you see someone moving, this is a fantastic trigger to get in touch with them. But someone take that without a pitch of salt. They take it like literally and what they do is Christian moving. And the day you post the job, basically that you move, they're gonna try to get into your inbox and I think there is a time before you do that sort of things. And and there is also maybe a method. You don't want to say, Oh, you move, so use my stuff in a new company. So yes, I'd like your thoughts about that. Not In time of the content and the value, because we can discuss it briefly, but more on the term of time frame when someone needs I think the most important thing. When you talk about value, I mean ultimately I ask the seller the DR I strowly believe that my product can help them. Right. I think, as you said, it's more a matter of what is the right timing for this, and the way we think about this is that there are three distinct phases. As someone starts your new job, and I briefly mentioned it, like three six days. The way we see like a good like a new sales leader, when they started the new organization, they're not immediately implementing new things. Right like what they...

...do is in the first phase, the first three days they're listening, they're learning everything in the organization. In the second phase, the next three days they're thinking. So what? What are the things that should be changing? What would tools, processes, people could I be bringing in to bring this organization forward? And then the third phase, day sixty two, I need that's when they're implementing. And that's why what you want to do in the listening phase, you're not going in and say hey, use my product, but the other the way we do it is if we identified it one of our champions, one of our power you just change their job. Then we go in Um send an email pretty quickly in the first week, but basically just thanking them for working with us, for using the product at the previous company and and wishing them all the best in that transition. There's no asking this. We might even add a gifting step into this, like hey, and to make it to make the transition easier, is a little bit like he's a small gifting. Are Right, and then in the range of two to three weeks later, that's from Reading Hey. Now that you're settled. Um, could it be interesting to explore if we can help you at a new job as well? Yeah, and then from then on. So basically, we talk here isn't about a sequence. So we talked about the first step within the first week, just taking them two to three weeks later, that's when the real sequence starts and that's when we have these eight nine steps over two three weeks with the phone calls and emails and Linkedin messages. Yes, so not straight away on them. You mentioned something, though, about sending them potentially a present. That's something that tell makes him not to do. I'll find it a bit that. That's why I think you and and you know that is I'm talking about a matter of opinion. I'm not saying it's right or wrong. It's my opinion. I'm not saying it's the best practice. I just find it a little bit weird when someone send me something fun of thing, even if it's a yeah, it's is, or something that I don't fually need or don't fully five dollar about show for for starbucks that I can't choose because they live in London and they would not take it. Helus on you to get our show with me and remember I've got it when I'm in the US and then you go to some stuff that I maybe a little bit over the top, like, you know, a nice bottle of whiskey or a nice bottle of wine or bottle of champagne and things like that. So it's just that I don't really know how to do it and I think it's a little bit I don't want to use that word, but it doesn't sound it's not bribery, but it's almost feel like, you know, I want to give you something, so, you know, you feel like you've got to give something back. And when I resist stuff from people, I don't like it because what they're telling me. They say, I'm going to give you something, not because my artists full of kindness, but I'm gonna do it because my my wallet is full of space and I would like your money in it. So and I think it's kind of you know, if you give a present to someone, it's got to be for an occasion, it's got to be for something. You shouldn't just be like that. So, you know, keep me a nest. Correct me if I'm wrong. What are your sorts on the whole gifting situation? Yeah, very interesting. Because I think in certain situations I fully agree with you. The interesting thing is we always talk about relationships, like, at least here and and these are certainly people. This, this is this is a person that previously purchased the product. Right, this might be the person that brought you into the previous organization. From there it's bread and now several departments used the product. Um, if this person leaves the organization, I literally want to thank them like Hey, thank you very much for actually working with us here, for bringing us here. I can see that it can be misunderstood, but especially, do you already have a relationship? I don't. I don't see this bribery. I see this. This is what I would be doing to a friend as well. I think it's about but what you're saying is the size of the gift should be appropriate to the action that I'm doing. Right, if this, if this is a person that locked and twice into my product, I'm not sending a bottle of some pain. But if this is the person that brought me into a large organization and made sure that they are sticking around them and staying like that. And then I think about of Champain. It's totally appropriate, similarly to actually, for example, we did when we when companies were still in there, but we visited them, we...

...brought them about of Champain for Christmas. I think it's very yeah, I think when you visit the clients or if you organize an event. So I think it's nice to do. One of the thing that we may want to do is to do like even if people find it weird. I think we're gonna get back to normal, but people still find a little bit busy after talk of it to go networking and get out of the office sometimes. But we used to do a client's Christmas party. We are basically we have our clients, but also all the champions in the market that you know, speak Frea daily of us, and so you don't need to be a client to come and it's a fantastic networking event because you're read with them, you meet with the rest of the community. Um. So that's spending at the moment because we have seen our clients running a fair few events and particularly when it's their own events, we see attendance right not being fantastic. So we've got it in the in the back of our heads us of that. We sort of doing is something a bit more meaningful, you know, like a meaning full in time of how much it costs, but meaning full in the sense of we took the time to write a note to right account the psych you caud you know. So actually taking the time to write a sank you card is not something that you can do at scale. And you know, congrats on your new job and getting all the team that was working on the project when they were in the previous company to sign and obviously put a little world but again there is complexity in doing that because without not all in the same office now anymore. Now it gets hurt. You could just walk around with the envelope and the thing and get it done like literally in thirty minutes, and then the only problem you had after that is find the address to send it. Would you send it too? So, so do you think is purely online, or do you do you also consider getting some off flying touch? Do you think building a community? I guess that's where I'm going, is also away. And then what about the meaningful, the kind of and written type of things, which is almost kind of maybe too close, but it doesn't cost you anything, but maybe it will make people smile because we don't freee caught anymore. I actually still have a hard time in the new environment to say what what this means in terms of events and communities that you're creating online offline. Um, I think that, for example, the office visit or or sending the cards to the home address, both of which are really hard to do in this new environment. I actually I actually don't have an answer to this because I think I'm in San Francisco right now with actually, like there's so many conferences specifically in San Francisco in September. So I think maybe this is actually a chump starts, hopefully, the in person events. Again, considering how much people moved outside the city, even in San Francisco, I think it gets harder and harder, like it's to think about visiting and a really large customer in person that they haven't moved it in person. It's probably really hard to actually find the day where the three people that I'm in touch with are all in the office. Yeah, it was difficult before. You remember, before Covid San Francisco, the bay area being one of the area where you call clients and some coming and yeah, but let's do a call anyway. You don't need to. You're like I'm coming, I'm I'M gonna be literated on the road. I mean something like I know exactly why you are going to be starting on other meters away from your office. Let me walk by. And you know, even before, I think, there's been that sort of that sort of thing, that it's okay to be online. You know, another format I would think of is potentially doing videos, but again you need to have the team together to be able to do a video or you have to record it on your phone and then do a little bit of a montage and send it to say thank you. It's it's that's that's how issue at the moment. You know, I think getting the trigger is one thing, and that's by is how do we paste it so we don't jump on you know it's a bit too much, but also how do we make sure that's gonna Compass in the in what we are doing with the interaction after and I think Um and this, I think that the...

...really interesting thing for exactly when we talk about the chop change trigger, because obviously we talked about the champions here, we talked about probably like senior people in the role, like the decision makers and that's where the thought process. What if this is manner work versus what is automation comes in? Or do what's in a sense, if I add a gifting step, what's the size of the gifting step? But what's actually really interesting is if you can broaden this. So when we talk about the champions in the easier way to talk about this is a close one opportunity context. If we talk about then a says prosmatic here, but Um, we're actually the real large value comes out of this is when I broaden it and when I said how many people actually used my product? So these are the people where I might not even have a relationship. They weren't included in the buying process. Maybe my CSM knows about them, maybe not. But even if the CSM knows, they're passing this information onto the sales person. Basically never happens. But this is oftentimes like if you if you have a SAS product, that's the difference between let's say four people being involved in the purchasing process but two hundred people using my product. And if I tracked these two hundred people, they might not be a decision maker here, but they can be the decision maker at the next organization or they report to the decision maker and now they're kind of like my my internal even spy that can help me work the organization. And so in this case then it's actually less about, let's say, adding a gifting step or not, because maybe there was no relationship. But it certainly it actually changes the game of prospecting where, instead of the code outreach to the decision maker, I can do that as well, but I can also go to the people that use the product and kind of like do the P L G motion through the organization. I think this is this is this is portant Christian. Um Actually look at it that way. So it's it's it's a very spotant comment. Um. Based on that, I've got a question that I've got to ask you is, do you have any stats? Do you have any like odd numbers that you can share with audience about how much existing relationship, nicely leverage after a job move, can actually entry to impact the top line? Yes, Um, so I think that the biggest one we we always started with is just looking at the outrea trade. Um. So that's the first one. We just see. We're doing this play internally user terms I think we published the statistics on our website, but I think it's something in the range of eighty to nine percent open rate, five to six acts the response rate. So we're looking at like thret response right on these emails. Obviously they have their relationship, but ultimately there's also this conversion rate to opportunities, which is about three acts. To any other outreach that you can can be doing. But I think the biggest number that we see consistently is that Um, tracking new champions, your power users, ultimately result in ten to fift off your whole pipeline, which means that if you're not doing display underson losing out on ten to fifteen of the partin. And what's really interesting here is that this it's probably the only marketing activity that actually scales with the business. Like it's really hard, if your linkedin advertising works, to actually say, okay, now I like the organization is growing, I need to have two X my linkedin advertising, because suddenly I'm spending way, way more. But as my organization grows, as I'm have more users, more champions, it also means that contract more people. It also means that now I'm generating more business from them. So ultimately it's ten to fifteen percent, and that's actually fully on autopilot. When you want to set this up, once you have like you track all your users. Um, like in our case. What user chance does is literally feed these new leads into your sades first, preferably feed on directly into an out each sequence. Um In our case. Um, it literally our a es and SDRs realize about this with a new meeting shows up in their calendar. Now I agree, I think.

The one stutard I'm not sure I coude is the two to three x opportunities. So are you saying that you create two to three x small opportunity from initial conversation? That's what you are saying. No, like Um. If, basically, if your team, let's sate a hundred target Um Um. Sorry, let's say VPS, and of saying the marketing that I'm targeting perscuse a hundred people that have used my product before, then basically doing the same effort, like reaching out, putting them all in a sequence, taking care of my actions, resulting in about three times the opportunities. Then your target then your regular target lists. It's three day more productive technically than picking up difference trying to eat. Yeah, some, some, some people that should never had a relationship with. That's that's justful. The last thing really you mentioned, you know, passing onto the sales team. So again, from my own experience of it, people who probably would appreciate to have the interruption with me, and that's that's one of the things. We kind of stop to do it a little bit because I can't be sending proposal as much as I used to at the beginning and it took focus on someone the stuff. Now, so I'm trying to involve the sales team, but they still ring me if they want something, if they want to progress. You know, my team removed me from the email. They had me back. So is there a balance around that? You have rules around that from your clients, or it's just like, you know, it doesn't matter for me to get involved. I just can't be doing the day to day's full sell cycle anymore. Unfortunately. I love it and I'm trying not to do it because I really like it, but unfortunately, you know, I need to focus on someone ourselves. So No, stract like I totally hear what you're saying. Like it's very similar innocence. I think both you and I I was the first day person of the organization, that was the first customer success person of the organizations that I evolved in relationships with the very early people. I think, Um, typically, I tried to treat them kind of like relationships, which means that I um, I want to make sure that at some point I'm part of the touch and so this means there's actually an outreach step that involves with these people. So there's there's a step where I reach out and this could be the first one or this could be the fourth one, and then ultimately I'm trying to be like the further down it goes to the funnel Um, the more I want to be involved. So at least like in one of the final conversations, I want to if if that's a person that I previously worked with, then I try to make sure that I'm still involved. And I think it all comes like, yes, like that, like a million things that that we all can be doing, but I think it all comes down to actually focusing on creating the relationship and I think that's part of it. Excellent. Well, thank you so much, Christian. Um. Lots of great insights here. If anyone wants to push you, the conversation with you or engage with you. The jams and and and I do not know you guys can help them, because I think one of the top that we've not even touches. What do you do with sells them sells people coming and living your own organization and retaining that information should go a big part of yours. But if anyone of audience wants to wants to push you, the conversation with you. Was the best way to get all of your questions now I think that that's a great point. Like, ultimately, what we do here is pretty much where we talked about here, right. So, Um, we we take your input, which is like all the people that purchased the product, all the people that use the product, regardless of who they worked with, as you say, like to says, person at leaves, etcetera, and then push it directly into your states first. So if if you're interested in learning more about this, then please reach out to me. Email addresses Christian at User Jams Dot Com. Wonderful. Well, thank you so much for our time, Christian. Today was an absolute pleasure to be on the show. Austin. was great chatting. Thank you so much for having me here. You've been listening to be to be revenue acceleration. To ensure that you never miss an episode, subscribe to the show in your favorite podcast player. Thank you so much for listening. Until next time, this podcast is sponsored by Gong. Gong and power is your entire going to mark your organization by Operationalizing Your Most Valuable Asset, your customer interactions. Transform...

...your organization into a revenue machine by unlock in reality and helping your people reach their full potential. Get started now at Gong dot Io.

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