B2B Revenue Acceleration
B2B Revenue Acceleration

Episode · 5 months ago

109: Radical Candor: A Leadership Style Every Manager Should Know w/ Wendy Harris

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Something people often get wrong in leadership is prioritizing their need to be liked over what’s best for their employee. In reality, caring for the employee means showing kindness by telling the truth, even when it’s challenging to share or hear.

In this episode, I interview Wendy Harris, Head of EMEA at Gong, about how applying the principles of radical candor has changed her leadership style.

In this episode we discuss:

-Her new role as Head of EMEA at Gong

-An overview of Radical Candor (the book and the practice)

-Dos and don’ts for newer leaders

-Building a culture of giving and receiving feedback

Check out these resources we mentioned during the podcast:

-Radical Candor by Kim Scott

Wendy Harris can be found on LinkedIn here: https://www.linkedin.com/in/wendyharrisirl/

To hear this interview and many more like it, subscribe to The B2B Revenue Acceleration Podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or our website.

Listening on a desktop & can’t see the links? Just search for B2B Revenue Acceleration in your favorite podcast player.

You were listening to bb revenue acceleration, a podcast dedicated helping software executive stay on the cutting edge of sales andmarketing in their industry. Let's get into the show. Hi, you welcometo be to be a revenue acceleration. My name is Ovini Amoutier and I'mhere today with when they arris at of Yen Ya, at Gong. Howis it going to the Wendy? It's great, sure, really unhappy tobe here. Thanks for having me well, so pleasure. Is Great to haveyou so you know we've been following Gong far little while. Is Goodthat you guys are finally coming into Europe. We can't wait to get closer toyou. But before we get going today, we will speak about Freddycalled candle leadership style every manager should know about. I don't know about it, before the conversation today. But before we go into the conversation, couldyou please tell us a little bit more about yourself? Why you join yourdrink gong and your Cara in the tech industry is sure happy to so.I actually spent the first eleven years of my career at Colman Stack, whereI worked as a trader in London. And Chicago, Soos and Francis Servicefor a long time, but I saw the lights and I realized I wantedto move home to Dublin, and Dublin as a thriving hub for tech firms, and my brothers worked in Google and facebook. So I was trying tochange industries from finance attack you. Definitely was harder than I expected. SoI took a contract marketing role at facebook to get my foot in the door. Did that for a while, then then went to a company called addroll where I ran their UK are land sales team. Then moved on todrop box, or I spent two and a half years and leading European sales, and then Uki failed and European sales, and then most recently, before goneand I was at a company called car gurus, where around their Europeansales team. So I will say that I definitely was not looking when goncame along. I have never seen the product, I'd heard the buzz Iheard. I knew there was something special about the company. So I tookthe call and I'm very glad I took the call because when I did seethe product, I was my mind was blown because I didn't realize anything withthat ever existed. So I'm lucky to be working for a company where Iam absolutely obsessed with the products and fully brought into what I'm doing on adaily basis. And Revenue Intelligence to category is the new big thing. Sotell us a little bit of box room new intelligens because I think there is, as we discussed when we prepar on the GPS at today, and youknow, I think Romenu intelligence squads a familiar concept in not America. Ithink he's getting down to Europe, but probably had to adduslow up base.So could you just summarize a little bit the concept of a new intelligence policeand now, just so we can make sure that everybody's on the same page? Absolutely. So, essentially, what it's doing? It's solving a universallypainful problem, which is a lack of visibility, and by that I meanwhen leaders want to understand what's going on in their business, they'll go andthey look at their crem and they look...

...at dashboards and they'll see the resultsand they'll see, you know, win rates and they and they'll see variousdifferent sort of you know, revenue closed, but what they don't see is anyinsight into what's happening at the critical point of execution. They see laggingindicators, not leading indicators. So that's where Gong and reft, the revenueintelligence category, comes in. So essentially the way it works is we captureinteractions across email, phone, web conferencing and we integrate with the CRM andwe we use our artificial intelligence to pull out insights to tell you why didthis deal close? In this deal didn't, did not close. Why is yourtop Rep, your top wrap, which one of your competitors, isreally a problem with your clients are actually speaking about? So it basically pullsback the black box which exists right now, and and we all know. Youknow crm serve a purpose, but the information cms is stale, it'sdistorted, it's missing information. You know you have something like six thousand wordson a call and thirty of them make it into sales wars or crm,and so I think it's basically filling in that black box. It's showing youwhat's actually happened so you can base and make business decisions based on facts,not opinions. Yeah, that makes perf ex sense. And and tell meabout the importance of when new intelligence. I mean obviously you are not withgoing as such during the Covid Biot so we kind of coming out of covies, what we all hope. So yes, great to go back to the publet's let's please keep them open. But but what do you think isthe importance of how important you think is revenue intelligence in the current market,which is, from my perspects, you've pretty much changing every day with thethe covid restriction lifting, people going back to your fees, not coming backwalking from a wind to shop. Yeah, I mean it's turbulent times and Ithink what s to the covid revealed was obviously the world changed on theaccess overnight and sort of what it showed was the tools from me yesterday,the sales tools we had no longer sort of really answered solve the problems oftoday. Right. So suddenly everyone's remote, everyone's working in their kitchens. Allof the learning by US Moses and that used to happen on the salesfloor that went away. And this putting about visibility. How do you visibility? And what you can see? The activities that you're ups are doing,but how do you actually know what the quality taste of conversation what's happening,how do you ramp? How do you bring people on board? And youknow, new horse. I started a gone two months ago, like thankGod I started a gun and could use them to on board, because otherwiseI would be in a precarious position. But I think it's basically it's solvingthis problem that now I don't think anyone thinks everyone's going back to the officefive days a week forever. So I think you know, hybrid or remotework is here to stay in one form...

...or another, and obviously this isa huge problem that companies are trying to grapple with. And but I thinkat tool like gone with the Reverend Revenue Intelligence category solves gives you the visibilityinto what's happening on the front lines and helps on boarding, is such acritical like time drag right the time to productivity is key in terms of bringingon new hires in this new world. And you know, and and andhonestly, a survey of our customers show that a sixty percent decrease in raptime. So I think when I worked pre pre gone in my my lastjob at car grews, when covid hit, obviously everyone saw a spike in churnand we saw increase question marks about billing payments. We wanted low,longer, shorter contract lens and I think something like a to like God,gives you is it can. It gives you the leading indicator that this isa this is a firm asking for asking about contract len this is a firmthat looks like it's showing churn signals. So it gives you that insight beforeit's too late. And I used to spend my life going around and askingall of my reps for like, what's happening? You know, and youas ten different people, you get ten different answers and they say, youknow, it's basically just pulls back the curtain and tells you, okay,this is actually really a problem, this is actually what's going on, beforeit's too late and save you the time of asking a tenzero question to good, which is great. So now let's let's talk about and I'm sure Idon't one I know we want to speak about really called Gundom. I'm alwaysinterested tondoors. The scale of you need to plan recee in the European markets, different market from the US, different region, different languages, difference,counchh also, can you tell us are reaching you? You probably call goingto the details of yours Friday GMIA, but you know what's your main focusof right next few months for you to scale across Europe? Sure, Ithink in general for any well, first of all I always like to givea plug to frontline ventures. Doesn't excellent report, like Stephen mcentyre Rosen,excellent report on what us be to be firms, get wrong about launching anemia, and I really recommend that as a read. So what they say is, in terms of timing you need to think about you know, is yourUS business well funded? Are Is your is it a priority for their exactteam? Is Their strength and death and the exact team? Is there alocal pull from the market? Right? So, so with gone. Therewas definitely a local pull for the market. We already have over a hundred customersand in Amia without having ever outbound salt here, and you know wesupport twenty six different languages. So so there was a real pull in themarket and the way we think about it and the way you know from whatI've seen a dropbox and other firms that I suggest people think about it isdon't try and be everything to everybody on day one. There is you don'thave to start and try and sell to SMB and to strategic accounts on dayone. It's there's a lot to be said for focus. So focus meaning, you know, start, look at your maybe a company's sub fifteen hundredemployees or sub of house employees and get a foothold and get a base andget your reference customers and learn product market...

...fish and feedback from local market which, as you said, will be different to the US and you will comeacross different challenges like, you know, a privacy or GDP are, etc. Etc. So get that product mark of fit, get your custom references, understand work what segments you play well in before you move up market.And then also when you think about scaling across countries. You know, ifyou think about what's most similar to the US, well, you know UKand Ireland as a pretty it is probably the safest bet to land in Europe. And terms of similarities, we're not very we're not entirely similar, butwe're not totally dissimilar. And then beyond that it's like, okay, well, where is there very strong English adoption and nordics is an obvious place,and the Netherlands. Yeah, exactly, the Netherlands. In dropbox we hada ton of business in South Africa, which is a very similar time zone, and obviously you, you're speaking as well. And then, beyond that, France and Germany are the whales and you need to land France in Germany. But you need to approach with caution because while, as you know,more than most imagined, while they are, you know, huge opportunities, it'salso critical you get the right you need to think about things like workscouncils and, you know again the privacy and the local regulations. So Ithink it's about scaling. So two things to think about this. One thesize of the customer you're selling to and to the cadence of the country.Scale out. You don't need to be everything to everybody on day one.You should think about in terms of pass good now. So I think it'sgreat strategy. Well, good luck. Who is all that? I'm sureyou guys going to do a fantastic job going in Europe. So we werelooking forward to witnessing a great growth and some great clients and, as Isaid earlier on, freedom all walk with you. Now that you have closeup to us. So let's talk about study called Ken Don now, soyou know, in the preparation of these discipie's aid we spoke to you andyou are very passionate about that leadership style. This is coming from Kim's cut.She's ex Google and wrote a book about it. So can you justtell us a little bit more? You'll take on ready called Kendo. Whatit means? Yeah, I am it is something I always any anybody thatworks me, I ask them to read this book because I think it's justit is a it is what I would consider certainly my Bible of leadership andand I think the best way to explain it is there is an exact seasand the y axis, and it's about, I think it says so maybe somecheesy titline which is something how to be a kick ass boss without losingyour humanity, but the the ex actis is the things like chat, tocheck, to care personally, and the Y axis is challenged directly. Soyou the quadrant you want to be in is the quadron called radical candor.That is where you care personally but you challenge directly. The three other quadrontsare manipulative insincerity, which is a terrible quadrant. You don't want to bein that. It's where you don't care, you don't challenge. The A obnoxiousaggression. Oh Yeah, yeah, I'm not, just want to playyou away every declaim. Yeah, yeah,...

I'm not. Just aggression, whichis where you don't care but you do challenge, and I in fullthe SCLOSURE. I have been known to bear into that categree occasionally with thecross functional stakeholders. And then the other category, where a lot of newmanagers especially and find themselves is ruinous empathy, where they do care but they don'tchallenge. And so it's you often see people prioritize their need to beliked over what's best for their actual employee. So they were unwilling to have ahard conversation with someone or a straight conversation because they worried the person wouldlike them. And that is not good leadership. And when you when yousay carrying, you carry about the individual, carrying about the mission of the company. Caring about your word, it's caring about the individual. So Isee leadership as a privilege and it's a very hard job. It comes witha lot of responsibility but you need to care about the individual and care aboutthe person and you build trust and you build upon with them. But caringabout someone doesn't mean that you never give them any constructive our tough feedback.Actually, the kindest thing you can do to someone is tell them place.You tell them the truth right and I think people really prioritize their own comfortover hard conversations sometimes. So this book gives a framework for how to thinkabout having tougher conversations and actually it's for the best of the person you're it'sthe kindest thing you can do. It's not the mean astay to do,it's the kindest thing there it's really about respect and helping also to develop,basically on or somewhere. I mean when you are in the right pattern.And I agree with you. Sometimes we witness people and we probably have afew in our organization that's really put the work. We've got some really workouts, people like you know twelve such in hours a day and you know,you just the way they could interact with people that maybe on the same levelbut maybe doing a little bit less, because I don't know, some peoplehave kids, some people have thinks that they can be you know, sendingemails at eight nineteen in the evening, you know, and these are peopleat tredy care that don't mind sending you know, being challengeding to the other. But the question is, do they really respect the person? And also, I think there is it's an interesting thing about the caring because I've alsoseen people who think that they care about the individual but again the receiving andor the person of the receiving and don't feel that they're being cared about theother being respected. So I think there is two elements. There is anelement of and as how I speak to it, I speak about it withmighty men. I'M gonna get that book and put it in the I wasabout say I'm going to put it into the lobby so everybody read it,but the obvious at the moment. But I think it's really important to allthat sort of of balance between provading the feedback but also that it's all doyou create that caring relationship so people feel cared about, and it's do youget them to meet socially. I mean, do you think he's small difficult?Now is defied. Everybody's online because that's what they feel. I feelthat he's probably super to get people and...

...maybe it's because I spend too muchteam in England. Well, put on the pad to make friends right andI think because I would love to be able to go down to the pub. But actually the pubs in Ireland only open properly yesterday, so that's excitingfor the first time in eighteen months. But not to your point. I'ma big believer in yes, obviously facetoface when it's possible. Right. Everythingover zoomed. It's far from my deal. But what I will also say sothere's times when you need to go for a walk with someone on yourteam. You do not need to sit in the conference room and talk abouttheir pipeline. You need to go for a walk with them and if youever have to have tough conversations, are you trying to build a relationship.You need to invest in that one on one time with the individual and saysome of the individual. I will also say I am a big believer inthe work of Dr Brenn a brown, and it's all about vulnerability and thepower vulnerability. If you you need to show vulnerability to your people and beif they see you being straight with them and sharing you know your struggles areyour insights with them as well. Then they feel they have a safe spaceto do the same with you and you meet, you get to a differentlevel. And so what I mean like that I've took I've spoken to myteam's previously about mental health. I've spoken about, you know, some myhealth issues in the past. It's like, I'm not bulletproof. No one's bulletproofand if you look like you're an approach on they can't get they can'tsink with you on the same level because they just this ear to sort ofyour you know, they can't connect with you, then that trust will neverreally get built. So it's really about showing your vulnerability, trying to openup conversations and setting the example. If you lead with vulnerability and being honestand saying I don't know, help guys, I don't know what to do here. Have some ideas, but I need your help and you'll get alot back from the person. Now agree. I think it's so true and it'sparticular. You got to think you know when you are lead brought theTUB, Tub, TUB, which usually takes people who are already be quscinateabout what they are doing and people would get a lot people to big Nishaand obviously have probably quite a strong walk if he can rest of great stuff. You know, it's a finally difficult sometimes to put my passion my backbook it. You know what, I want to get things done and it'sso fine. I the need to apologize to people. Just look, youknow, I'm so sorry. The missing of the send to you or thecongustion that they get to you or the way we interacting probably completely overwhelmed you. But look, think about the content. That the fuck when I put justfor the contents, you know, I should have probably just give youa couple of phase and let you think about it. Slip on it doesuse just like kind of coming as a machine gun and just so let's getit done in this is exactly what we're going to get it done any good. What is quiet. It's quite of a bearing for people and this probablynot showing them a lot of respect if we don't, if I don't actuallygive them ther Portuny easy to do as the right question of things for himself. That makes sense. I definitely going to read that book, but areally and what you said there, though, is you said, I said sorry, like, guess what, I made mistakes every day. We alldo. We're all human. So the fact that you acknowledge that, yousaid sorry and you showed the self awareness to do though, people they're like, oh, thank goodness. You know, then it's great. It's like,so that's the thing. It's leader's...

...being willing to say, I'm sorry, I got that wrong. Like I've gone into a meeting. That's somethingbad happened in my personal life. I've gone into a meeting, I've beenin a bad mood. I've taken out of my reps before and I rememberone specific example where I did that, you know, a few years back, and I took them into a room later that day and I apologize.I said I'm sorry, I I could have dealt with that meeting better thismorning and there's something going on. I didn't come out that and it's likegoing, you know what, we're human, right, so we will get thingswrong. It's okay to apologize and you get so much more respect whenyou're honest about it. Yeah, just that. But my last conversation ofthat nature was to apologize for being selfish, because the conduction of the hads yoursindividual it's just to make me feel that now. Yeah, definitely wasreally to butt me to invent and making you finish it. So I wotit when I should read them do that. So pullied, but now I agreewith you. So can you give us a couple of example of ofsituation in which you've seen it walking extremely well and situation where maybe you notseem ready contender walking as well in your in your professional life? Sure Ican give you an example. I think that people always think we don't.It doesn't even need to be employee and, you know, manager to wrap.What I think it can be as well is like your wreck to customer. So if you think about the credibility, you guess with a wrap. ForI, for example, I remember moment my last company when we wereon where I saw a client was on a trial and the trial didn't gothat well and the REP didn't try and hide from this. It happens sometimes, right. There's very different factors that go into how trial might perform,and so what the REC did was the rep did genuinely also care about therelationship with the customer. I said, look, I'm sorry, this didn'tgo well. I understand. You know, if we didn't meet live up toyour expectations. I'd love an opportunity to extend this, but if youwant to part as friends, that's okay. Obviously what happened was that customer waslike, you've got so much credibility with me because I can tell youcare about my business. You're not being fake, you want me to succeedand you're not trying to sell me something that's wrong for me. So itactually started fantastic relationship where their customer went on. It's grown and grown eversince. So so I think when you if you think about in the professionalcontext with customers as well, if you're honest and and if you're honest withthem and talk about you know when it's not going right, rather than tryingto be fake about it, then that's a great example right. And Ithink we're seen to go horribly wrong. I remember somebody, and this iscalled the ruinous empathy poderrant, I remember someone being fired. I sat inthe room with a guy who was being fired and the manager was firing himand the guy had no idea who was being fired and he was about towalk out of the room not knowing he had been fired, because the managerhad used such vague language and talked around everything rather than said exactly what heneeded to hear, because because she found the words too hard to use directly. And so clear is kind, unclear is unkind. I use that phrasea lot with my team. Clear is kind, unclear is unkind, andyou know, people think that they're being...

...kind by putting a load of paddingon it. Be Straight. Gong has an operating principle of no sugar,which I loved. When I saw that I was like, Oh goody,and it's not it. It's not a it's not an excuse to be,you know, bad person, to be aggressive and be it's not that.It's about, you know, asking permission to say it's straight, because thatpoor person who is being fired deserved to have the have a straight conversation andto understand what was being said. I had to intervene at the last minute. We walked at the door because I realized you didn't know what it actuallyhappened and that was a that was a catastrophe and I think that might thatwas a young manager, a new manager, and they learned a lot from that. You're aise a good point here, because obviously you on experience manager.I'd like to see it's not been also around the block party to bebut I remember the beginning of my carry as being a manager and it wasquite grey difficult because I was promoted from wizard. So I will I tomanage basically my friends, which is not easy and you've got to really thinkabout the emotion right, because it probably don't feel good about that. Butit's not about me, it's about you today. What advice would you giveto less experience me the like people will start to your that carry and obviouslythey can't get everything right straight when I don't sure it is spook about afew things of this week. Humility, you know, being able to appologize. It was kind of writing the couch of it. What do you thinkhave the key call value on the key things that that a young leader shouldshould really lost? I think if they got if they made peace with it'smore important to be respected than light, and by that I mean that youhave a responsibility to be unpopular sometimes. Get used to being the bad guysometimes, and it's okay. That's part of your job. And if youcannot get past that level of discomfort and you don't, you shouldn't be amanager. So you need to make peace with the fact that you will haveto have hard conversations and you will have to be unpopular and that it's partof the job. And so I would say also if there's a conversation thatyou wish you were having but you would you're not having or you're talking aboutsomeone behind their back or you're saying it to everyone but the person, thatis a major red flag that you should be having a conversation with a person. So I am always hardest to my people's faces and I promote them behindtheir backs or, sorry, when I'm in the room without them, Ipromote them. But the toughest conversation you should have to someone on your teamis to their face, not behind it back. And and it's about havingintegrity and it's about having the strength of character to be able to put yourselfin uncomfortable positions. So keep challenging yourself to do it and think about thephrase clear is kind, unclear is on kind. And also, if youwere the other person, would you want to be talked about behind your backor would you rather someone set it to your face and gave you a chanceto fix it? Yeah, and I also think you know that. Anothermajor mistake I see is people live leaf performance management conversations to the last minutewhere they're vague or the person is surprised that all of a sudden they're ona performance improven plan because their manager hasn't...

...been having those conversations. So itshould not be one big dramatic conversation, it should be a series of so, by the way, I noticed this this week. That's you know,my feedback to you is x y zed, please don't do that again and moveon and then shake it off, you know, don't carry it withyou. Shake it off, put up behind you, move on. So, but I think getting comfortable with being unpopular is is is it? It'sjust a fact of leadership. You've just got to be there is some much, great, great things. From what you're saying, I can do protguethe point about letting the situation Festi on it a bit. Well, wesee that with with younger manager where they don't really wanted dead off people orthey don't want to have that non comfortable conversation with people, and what wetry into. Good Jim, he's what who are speaking about. All you. You are helping them. So basically not giving them the feedback there andthen quick on it and basically just just trying to brush it on the thecalpet, you know, being in denial of the issue and again of thinkingways, okay, is going to get better. It's it's terrible things.You need you need to be on it, you need to speak about it atleast, and you try, need to treat to put something in place. But we see that as an issue. Again, you know, from ourside we do a lot of promotion from within. So there is alwayslike a far months to six months time frame for people to really get upto speed. So now we've got to measure a bit of framework we've got. We've got an operatics academy as well. So we are bombited just to getquicker on to this concept that we am going to use the case kindand case isn't kind, because I think it's it's a great concept and actuallya really incited but one thing I'd say that I've seen work really well andthat I do with all of my teams is, and do it once aquarter or certainly twice a year, is this it's like speed dating feedback,and what you do is you have all of your team members and you giveeveryone a sheet with the name of every of different people on the team andthey have to write three things I appreciate about you and one thing I wishyou would do differently. And everyone, everyone gets paired and they have threeminutes each and it's only between that person, each person, the individuals, thetwo individuals. But I do it with my team and so all ofthem are forced to tell me one thing they wish I would do differently,and so it may gives them permission to give me feedback and it also mightshow me some blind spots. Right. So if they're not uncomfortable, becauseeveryone has to do it, it's just me in the person and I'm doingit for them as well, and I think I've seen that work really well. So it's like three minutes speed dating everybody one on one, and it'sand everyone gets to take away their sheets at the end of the day aswell, and references and when they do their next quarterly feedbacks, I shouldthey can say, okay, has anything changed or is there is there atrend? HAS ANYTHING IMPROVED HERE? But it just makes it normal. It'slike it's not a big deal. Getting feedback treatings. I appreciate about you. One thing I wish you do differently and everyone on the team is pairedwith each other and everyone gets to give...

...each other feedback, because even wraps, you can know reps have issues with each other as well, which theygrumble about behind their backs, but they don't actually address this. So thisis an opportunity to help instill that culture feedback. Yeah, we are,we are implementing something at the moment is different, but it's I guess it'sgot the same the same objective, which is really getting back on the managersand the people we run. Implements Industry six sleeping back, which is basicallyeach manager. I'm I'll stopped with myself and my team, so we'll seewhat they what they come back with. That's good. Yeah, yeah,well, we really to do it because, you know, we want our managersto kill comfortable about it. So we wanted to do it to themanager before they get that's even doing it to them. But I think it'salso very important to longer somebody the team things, you know, and inthere we've got things like, you know, respect and I think we may wantto resplace some of it based on the congression with this morning, youknow, but some of the things that you mentioned. But it's free abouttrained on the stones if the leader is really anything because again sometimes I think, and particularly for the younger leader, you may try, you may thinkthat you are doing your best, and it happens to me when I'm whenI grew up in leadership, to think and doing the best and then releasingsix months later that I was I was actually getting it completely wrong. Andthat's where we won't we think that the feed back, so you know,is that the speed dating, which we should also do, or the andI think to speed dating is actually quite interesting because with everybody working from him, you could be pair to pretty much anyone in the company. Oh youknow, it doesn't need just to be out your direct reports. It couldbe also kind of Nice Way to meet New People in the organization, peopleyou don't have the chance to speak of anways. But the three hundred andsixty fif back. Yeah, we we're going to push that out and seewhat happened. Have you I don't know if you're if you are Netflix,find out not exact. Yes, well, I've been you. I don't thinkwe had the choice of our over covid nint do. But there isa problem that I watch now. I've been thinking about it quite a lotthrough the conversation, which is called last chance. You nurse. Yeah,well, o'ther, go and try to watch it. It's there is afew seasons. So there is one season about American football and one season aboutbasketball and if you watch it, I don't remember the name of the peopleor why it was they with someone in the in California, I believe,and it's a it's a basketball coach with taking really unprivileged kids that are,you know, probably not really good to get to the rights university but areabsolutely amazing athlete and basically there's a last chance in life to do something withthemselves, because if they don't become a good basketball player, the chances arethat they will go back to do some bad stuff. And and I thinkfor the people who are listening to us that are not really keen on readingready, all can do and read a book about it, but once tooneDost on the concept, they really need to watch less change you, becauseI think it's quite an emotional thing as well. But it's a coach thatgive them so much shit, the way you speak to them, passionate,telling them off. You tell them off...

...in front of other people, Right. So he does it. You know it will tell you off in frontof the rest of the team, right, and he doesn't hesitate to put themin the spot and everything, which I think is when I was watchingit at the beginning, it was not to comfortable with because as that's aterrible way of leading. Right, you should put them apart to them.But then you realize the back end of it and how much care for them. Right, all the thing that he does for them, and this isfrom my perspective, kind of really align with the conversation today, is aman that's really cared, is full of passion, but yeah, when itcomes to will, he comes to crunch time when he's got something to tellyou. I mean he is ridicule, is radical, is clear, isit doesn't sound unkind, but I think he's really helping them and the realit is that they go and win that championship, so he actually get themto the top so they also achieve something exceptional together during the season. Soyeah, so definitely probably want to run through walls for him. They wantto do it for him as well, because they know he cares. Andyou can see all the moments. You know it's emotion because some of themare up down there is some guys that he gets through, someone's I doesn'tget through, and you can see how it's playing on their mind on bothsides. You can see the leader and you can see the the play andit's I don't know, it's quite an interesting is full of of emotional intelligence, basic and I think it's really well done from Netflix, the way theyfilmed it. I don't know how much of it was scripted or not,but hopefully not too much. But yeah, I think it but it's not,it's not it's not Kamscut book, but I think if people don't reallywant to rich too much about it and I think get a context of theradical Kendall that's change. You the bestketball one is is one that they shouldwatching. I encourage you to watch you and then give me your favor well, I will absolutely well, I think it also brings back to all ofthe best leaders capture the hearts of their people right. So think about howmuch more they means. People will go the extra mile for them because theyknow they are and they want to get back to them. Yeah, yeah, I mean, and you know it's it's something that's you mentioned that early, honest. But it's about being very true to your feelings as well.I have situation. I've got to admit that situation. Often it's very difficultto care about people. I had situation Wal. I found it difficult tostrike a relationship with people, even if they were good, because for somereason, you know, yeah, not everyone clicks with everybody. That's normal. But I think I grew up now and you know, I think I'vegot kids, I've got all that. So I think it changed you alittle bit in life. And now the people are coming in, I'm not. I don't maybe feel as much as I'm competing with them or whatever.It's more like, you know, you've got us, traded them as yourkids. Right. It's O, Kate and affect and and I think onething Hass Rea Change in my style is that maybe ten years ago I usedto probably care because I knew that I yet to care or the look likeI'm carrying hmm. Well, I know I can say it. That genuinelygenuine care and I don't think it's easy for me to say, because he'smy company, right. So, you know, it's, yeah, veryimportant, because being genuine in all that...

...you all the things that we arediscussing today, is also very important because the day people realize that you arestarting to manipulate them and absolutely on agenda, I mean that's probabing. You wentthere's probably when good things just exploding in your face, right. Sothey can. They can smell it a mile away if you're being faked.But also, it's funny what you said. They're about kids. I I don'thave kids. I have a horse and a dog and I never wantedkids. But I am. But I joked about joke to my previous past. I said I don't like kids, but I feel like about sixty ofthem. So I do. I did feel like the Mama Bear with them. You know, I've responsibility. I want them all to to achieve theirdreams and keep them honest, and that's why I think about I want youto be able to go buy your house, your holiday. You're, you know, by the engage and ring, by whatever, a horse, andto do that I need to be tough with you right now, because you'reyou know. So that's why I think about it. But yeah, life, life is a life is really nics, not real sort. You've got toget it, get it now, and it's nothing better than anything.People you know better, humid people get into there. We've got we couldeat the six finger club or people getting your class house and made them howslumming party. He's just better. Your even pot of it is just itjust feel very nice. But in anyway we getting to the innovates. We'vebeen spending fought too much time to get our Wendy. I think we couldprobably carry on forever. I wanted to thank you so much for going stakingthat. Are Really, really draid that from gus station. Now now whatI'd like to to ask you that each people. Let's say I'm a Europeancompany. I love what you had to say about for new intelligence are.I want to speak to you about leadership or whatever. Basically, I wantto have a check these. Wendy, was the best way to get oneof you. I'm on Linkedin. So Wendy Harris on Linkedin, and andalso you can contact us to the Gong website, which is gone. Dolliohe so be happy to chat. That's great. Well, thank you againit was great to have young this for today, free stays or alien andwish you very, very well. Thank you. Thank you, but myoperatics has redefined the meaning of revenue generation for technology companies worldwide. While thetraditional concepts of building and managing inside sales teams inhouse has existed for many years, companies are struggling with a lack of focus, agility and scale required intoday's fast and complex world of enterprise technology sales. See How operatics can helpyour company accelerate pipeline at operatics dotnet. You've been listening to BEDB revenue acceleration. To ensure that you never miss an episode, subscribe to the show inyour favorite podcast player. Thank you so much for listening. Until next time.

In-Stream Audio Search

NEW

Search across all episodes within this podcast

Episodes (120)