B2B Revenue Acceleration
B2B Revenue Acceleration

Episode · 11 months ago

109: Radical Candor: A Leadership Style Every Manager Should Know w/ Wendy Harris

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Something people often get wrong in leadership is prioritizing their need to be liked over what’s best for their employee. In reality, caring for the employee means showing kindness by telling the truth, even when it’s challenging to share or hear.

In this episode, I interview Wendy Harris, Head of EMEA at Gong, about how applying the principles of radical candor has changed her leadership style.

In this episode we discuss:

-Her new role as Head of EMEA at Gong

-An overview of Radical Candor (the book and the practice)

-Dos and don’ts for newer leaders

-Building a culture of giving and receiving feedback

Check out these resources we mentioned during the podcast:

-Radical Candor by Kim Scott

Wendy Harris can be found on LinkedIn here: https://www.linkedin.com/in/wendyharrisirl/

To hear this interview and many more like it, subscribe to The B2B Revenue Acceleration Podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or our website.

Listening on a desktop & can’t see the links? Just search for B2B Revenue Acceleration in your favorite podcast player.

You were listening to bb revenue acceleration, a podcast dedicated helping software executive stay on the cutting edge of sales and marketing in their industry. Let's get into the show. Hi, you welcome to be to be a revenue acceleration. My name is Ovini Amoutier and I'm here today with when they arris at of Yen Ya, at Gong. How is it going to the Wendy? It's great, sure, really unhappy to be here. Thanks for having me well, so pleasure. Is Great to have you so you know we've been following Gong far little while. Is Good that you guys are finally coming into Europe. We can't wait to get closer to you. But before we get going today, we will speak about Freddy called candle leadership style every manager should know about. I don't know about it, before the conversation today. But before we go into the conversation, could you please tell us a little bit more about yourself? Why you join your drink gong and your Cara in the tech industry is sure happy to so. I actually spent the first eleven years of my career at Colman Stack, where I worked as a trader in London. And Chicago, Soos and Francis Service for a long time, but I saw the lights and I realized I wanted to move home to Dublin, and Dublin as a thriving hub for tech firms, and my brothers worked in Google and facebook. So I was trying to change industries from finance attack you. Definitely was harder than I expected. So I took a contract marketing role at facebook to get my foot in the door. Did that for a while, then then went to a company called add roll where I ran their UK are land sales team. Then moved on to drop box, or I spent two and a half years and leading European sales, and then Uki failed and European sales, and then most recently, before gone and I was at a company called car gurus, where around their European sales team. So I will say that I definitely was not looking when gon came along. I have never seen the product, I'd heard the buzz I heard. I knew there was something special about the company. So I took the call and I'm very glad I took the call because when I did see the product, I was my mind was blown because I didn't realize anything with that ever existed. So I'm lucky to be working for a company where I am absolutely obsessed with the products and fully brought into what I'm doing on a daily basis. And Revenue Intelligence to category is the new big thing. So tell us a little bit of box room new intelligens because I think there is, as we discussed when we prepar on the GPS at today, and you know, I think Romenu intelligence squads a familiar concept in not America. I think he's getting down to Europe, but probably had to adduslow up base. So could you just summarize a little bit the concept of a new intelligence police and now, just so we can make sure that everybody's on the same page? Absolutely. So, essentially, what it's doing? It's solving a universally painful problem, which is a lack of visibility, and by that I mean when leaders want to understand what's going on in their business, they'll go and they look at their crem and they look...

...at dashboards and they'll see the results and they'll see, you know, win rates and they and they'll see various different sort of you know, revenue closed, but what they don't see is any insight into what's happening at the critical point of execution. They see lagging indicators, not leading indicators. So that's where Gong and reft, the revenue intelligence category, comes in. So essentially the way it works is we capture interactions across email, phone, web conferencing and we integrate with the CRM and we we use our artificial intelligence to pull out insights to tell you why did this deal close? In this deal didn't, did not close. Why is your top Rep, your top wrap, which one of your competitors, is really a problem with your clients are actually speaking about? So it basically pulls back the black box which exists right now, and and we all know. You know crm serve a purpose, but the information cms is stale, it's distorted, it's missing information. You know you have something like six thousand words on a call and thirty of them make it into sales wars or crm, and so I think it's basically filling in that black box. It's showing you what's actually happened so you can base and make business decisions based on facts, not opinions. Yeah, that makes perf ex sense. And and tell me about the importance of when new intelligence. I mean obviously you are not with going as such during the Covid Biot so we kind of coming out of covies, what we all hope. So yes, great to go back to the pub let's let's please keep them open. But but what do you think is the importance of how important you think is revenue intelligence in the current market, which is, from my perspects, you've pretty much changing every day with the the covid restriction lifting, people going back to your fees, not coming back walking from a wind to shop. Yeah, I mean it's turbulent times and I think what s to the covid revealed was obviously the world changed on the access overnight and sort of what it showed was the tools from me yesterday, the sales tools we had no longer sort of really answered solve the problems of today. Right. So suddenly everyone's remote, everyone's working in their kitchens. All of the learning by US Moses and that used to happen on the sales floor that went away. And this putting about visibility. How do you visibility? And what you can see? The activities that you're ups are doing, but how do you actually know what the quality taste of conversation what's happening, how do you ramp? How do you bring people on board? And you know, new horse. I started a gone two months ago, like thank God I started a gun and could use them to on board, because otherwise I would be in a precarious position. But I think it's basically it's solving this problem that now I don't think anyone thinks everyone's going back to the office five days a week forever. So I think you know, hybrid or remote work is here to stay in one form...

...or another, and obviously this is a huge problem that companies are trying to grapple with. And but I think at tool like gone with the Reverend Revenue Intelligence category solves gives you the visibility into what's happening on the front lines and helps on boarding, is such a critical like time drag right the time to productivity is key in terms of bringing on new hires in this new world. And you know, and and and honestly, a survey of our customers show that a sixty percent decrease in rap time. So I think when I worked pre pre gone in my my last job at car grews, when covid hit, obviously everyone saw a spike in churn and we saw increase question marks about billing payments. We wanted low, longer, shorter contract lens and I think something like a to like God, gives you is it can. It gives you the leading indicator that this is a this is a firm asking for asking about contract len this is a firm that looks like it's showing churn signals. So it gives you that insight before it's too late. And I used to spend my life going around and asking all of my reps for like, what's happening? You know, and you as ten different people, you get ten different answers and they say, you know, it's basically just pulls back the curtain and tells you, okay, this is actually really a problem, this is actually what's going on, before it's too late and save you the time of asking a tenzero question to good, which is great. So now let's let's talk about and I'm sure I don't one I know we want to speak about really called Gundom. I'm always interested tondoors. The scale of you need to plan recee in the European markets, different market from the US, different region, different languages, difference, counchh also, can you tell us are reaching you? You probably call going to the details of yours Friday GMIA, but you know what's your main focus of right next few months for you to scale across Europe? Sure, I think in general for any well, first of all I always like to give a plug to frontline ventures. Doesn't excellent report, like Stephen mcentyre Rosen, excellent report on what us be to be firms, get wrong about launching anemia, and I really recommend that as a read. So what they say is, in terms of timing you need to think about you know, is your US business well funded? Are Is your is it a priority for their exact team? Is Their strength and death and the exact team? Is there a local pull from the market? Right? So, so with gone. There was definitely a local pull for the market. We already have over a hundred customers and in Amia without having ever outbound salt here, and you know we support twenty six different languages. So so there was a real pull in the market and the way we think about it and the way you know from what I've seen a dropbox and other firms that I suggest people think about it is don't try and be everything to everybody on day one. There is you don't have to start and try and sell to SMB and to strategic accounts on day one. It's there's a lot to be said for focus. So focus meaning, you know, start, look at your maybe a company's sub fifteen hundred employees or sub of house employees and get a foothold and get a base and get your reference customers and learn product market...

...fish and feedback from local market which, as you said, will be different to the US and you will come across different challenges like, you know, a privacy or GDP are, etc. Etc. So get that product mark of fit, get your custom references, understand work what segments you play well in before you move up market. And then also when you think about scaling across countries. You know, if you think about what's most similar to the US, well, you know UK and Ireland as a pretty it is probably the safest bet to land in Europe. And terms of similarities, we're not very we're not entirely similar, but we're not totally dissimilar. And then beyond that it's like, okay, well, where is there very strong English adoption and nordics is an obvious place, and the Netherlands. Yeah, exactly, the Netherlands. In dropbox we had a ton of business in South Africa, which is a very similar time zone, and obviously you, you're speaking as well. And then, beyond that, France and Germany are the whales and you need to land France in Germany. But you need to approach with caution because while, as you know, more than most imagined, while they are, you know, huge opportunities, it's also critical you get the right you need to think about things like works councils and, you know again the privacy and the local regulations. So I think it's about scaling. So two things to think about this. One the size of the customer you're selling to and to the cadence of the country. Scale out. You don't need to be everything to everybody on day one. You should think about in terms of pass good now. So I think it's great strategy. Well, good luck. Who is all that? I'm sure you guys going to do a fantastic job going in Europe. So we were looking forward to witnessing a great growth and some great clients and, as I said earlier on, freedom all walk with you. Now that you have close up to us. So let's talk about study called Ken Don now, so you know, in the preparation of these discipie's aid we spoke to you and you are very passionate about that leadership style. This is coming from Kim's cut. She's ex Google and wrote a book about it. So can you just tell us a little bit more? You'll take on ready called Kendo. What it means? Yeah, I am it is something I always any anybody that works me, I ask them to read this book because I think it's just it is a it is what I would consider certainly my Bible of leadership and and I think the best way to explain it is there is an exact seas and the y axis, and it's about, I think it says so maybe some cheesy titline which is something how to be a kick ass boss without losing your humanity, but the the ex actis is the things like chat, to check, to care personally, and the Y axis is challenged directly. So you the quadrant you want to be in is the quadron called radical candor. That is where you care personally but you challenge directly. The three other quadronts are manipulative insincerity, which is a terrible quadrant. You don't want to be in that. It's where you don't care, you don't challenge. The A obnoxious aggression. Oh Yeah, yeah, I'm not, just want to play you away every declaim. Yeah, yeah,...

I'm not. Just aggression, which is where you don't care but you do challenge, and I in full the SCLOSURE. I have been known to bear into that categree occasionally with the cross functional stakeholders. And then the other category, where a lot of new managers especially and find themselves is ruinous empathy, where they do care but they don't challenge. And so it's you often see people prioritize their need to be liked over what's best for their actual employee. So they were unwilling to have a hard conversation with someone or a straight conversation because they worried the person would like them. And that is not good leadership. And when you when you say carrying, you carry about the individual, carrying about the mission of the company. Caring about your word, it's caring about the individual. So I see leadership as a privilege and it's a very hard job. It comes with a lot of responsibility but you need to care about the individual and care about the person and you build trust and you build upon with them. But caring about someone doesn't mean that you never give them any constructive our tough feedback. Actually, the kindest thing you can do to someone is tell them place. You tell them the truth right and I think people really prioritize their own comfort over hard conversations sometimes. So this book gives a framework for how to think about having tougher conversations and actually it's for the best of the person you're it's the kindest thing you can do. It's not the mean astay to do, it's the kindest thing there it's really about respect and helping also to develop, basically on or somewhere. I mean when you are in the right pattern. And I agree with you. Sometimes we witness people and we probably have a few in our organization that's really put the work. We've got some really workouts, people like you know twelve such in hours a day and you know, you just the way they could interact with people that maybe on the same level but maybe doing a little bit less, because I don't know, some people have kids, some people have thinks that they can be you know, sending emails at eight nineteen in the evening, you know, and these are people at tredy care that don't mind sending you know, being challengeding to the other. But the question is, do they really respect the person? And also, I think there is it's an interesting thing about the caring because I've also seen people who think that they care about the individual but again the receiving and or the person of the receiving and don't feel that they're being cared about the other being respected. So I think there is two elements. There is an element of and as how I speak to it, I speak about it with mighty men. I'M gonna get that book and put it in the I was about say I'm going to put it into the lobby so everybody read it, but the obvious at the moment. But I think it's really important to all that sort of of balance between provading the feedback but also that it's all do you create that caring relationship so people feel cared about, and it's do you get them to meet socially. I mean, do you think he's small difficult? Now is defied. Everybody's online because that's what they feel. I feel that he's probably super to get people and...

...maybe it's because I spend too much team in England. Well, put on the pad to make friends right and I think because I would love to be able to go down to the pub. But actually the pubs in Ireland only open properly yesterday, so that's exciting for the first time in eighteen months. But not to your point. I'm a big believer in yes, obviously facetoface when it's possible. Right. Everything over zoomed. It's far from my deal. But what I will also say so there's times when you need to go for a walk with someone on your team. You do not need to sit in the conference room and talk about their pipeline. You need to go for a walk with them and if you ever have to have tough conversations, are you trying to build a relationship. You need to invest in that one on one time with the individual and say some of the individual. I will also say I am a big believer in the work of Dr Brenn a brown, and it's all about vulnerability and the power vulnerability. If you you need to show vulnerability to your people and be if they see you being straight with them and sharing you know your struggles are your insights with them as well. Then they feel they have a safe space to do the same with you and you meet, you get to a different level. And so what I mean like that I've took I've spoken to my team's previously about mental health. I've spoken about, you know, some my health issues in the past. It's like, I'm not bulletproof. No one's bulletproof and if you look like you're an approach on they can't get they can't sink with you on the same level because they just this ear to sort of your you know, they can't connect with you, then that trust will never really get built. So it's really about showing your vulnerability, trying to open up conversations and setting the example. If you lead with vulnerability and being honest and saying I don't know, help guys, I don't know what to do here. Have some ideas, but I need your help and you'll get a lot back from the person. Now agree. I think it's so true and it's particular. You got to think you know when you are lead brought the TUB, Tub, TUB, which usually takes people who are already be quscinate about what they are doing and people would get a lot people to big Nisha and obviously have probably quite a strong walk if he can rest of great stuff. You know, it's a finally difficult sometimes to put my passion my back book it. You know what, I want to get things done and it's so fine. I the need to apologize to people. Just look, you know, I'm so sorry. The missing of the send to you or the congustion that they get to you or the way we interacting probably completely overwhelmed you. But look, think about the content. That the fuck when I put just for the contents, you know, I should have probably just give you a couple of phase and let you think about it. Slip on it does use just like kind of coming as a machine gun and just so let's get it done in this is exactly what we're going to get it done any good. What is quiet. It's quite of a bearing for people and this probably not showing them a lot of respect if we don't, if I don't actually give them ther Portuny easy to do as the right question of things for himself. That makes sense. I definitely going to read that book, but a really and what you said there, though, is you said, I said sorry, like, guess what, I made mistakes every day. We all do. We're all human. So the fact that you acknowledge that, you said sorry and you showed the self awareness to do though, people they're like, oh, thank goodness. You know, then it's great. It's like, so that's the thing. It's leader's...

...being willing to say, I'm sorry, I got that wrong. Like I've gone into a meeting. That's something bad happened in my personal life. I've gone into a meeting, I've been in a bad mood. I've taken out of my reps before and I remember one specific example where I did that, you know, a few years back, and I took them into a room later that day and I apologize. I said I'm sorry, I I could have dealt with that meeting better this morning and there's something going on. I didn't come out that and it's like going, you know what, we're human, right, so we will get things wrong. It's okay to apologize and you get so much more respect when you're honest about it. Yeah, just that. But my last conversation of that nature was to apologize for being selfish, because the conduction of the hads yours individual it's just to make me feel that now. Yeah, definitely was really to butt me to invent and making you finish it. So I wot it when I should read them do that. So pullied, but now I agree with you. So can you give us a couple of example of of situation in which you've seen it walking extremely well and situation where maybe you not seem ready contender walking as well in your in your professional life? Sure I can give you an example. I think that people always think we don't. It doesn't even need to be employee and, you know, manager to wrap. What I think it can be as well is like your wreck to customer. So if you think about the credibility, you guess with a wrap. For I, for example, I remember moment my last company when we were on where I saw a client was on a trial and the trial didn't go that well and the REP didn't try and hide from this. It happens sometimes, right. There's very different factors that go into how trial might perform, and so what the REC did was the rep did genuinely also care about the relationship with the customer. I said, look, I'm sorry, this didn't go well. I understand. You know, if we didn't meet live up to your expectations. I'd love an opportunity to extend this, but if you want to part as friends, that's okay. Obviously what happened was that customer was like, you've got so much credibility with me because I can tell you care about my business. You're not being fake, you want me to succeed and you're not trying to sell me something that's wrong for me. So it actually started fantastic relationship where their customer went on. It's grown and grown ever since. So so I think when you if you think about in the professional context with customers as well, if you're honest and and if you're honest with them and talk about you know when it's not going right, rather than trying to be fake about it, then that's a great example right. And I think we're seen to go horribly wrong. I remember somebody, and this is called the ruinous empathy poderrant, I remember someone being fired. I sat in the room with a guy who was being fired and the manager was firing him and the guy had no idea who was being fired and he was about to walk out of the room not knowing he had been fired, because the manager had used such vague language and talked around everything rather than said exactly what he needed to hear, because because she found the words too hard to use directly. And so clear is kind, unclear is unkind. I use that phrase a lot with my team. Clear is kind, unclear is unkind, and you know, people think that they're being...

...kind by putting a load of padding on it. Be Straight. Gong has an operating principle of no sugar, which I loved. When I saw that I was like, Oh goody, and it's not it. It's not a it's not an excuse to be, you know, bad person, to be aggressive and be it's not that. It's about, you know, asking permission to say it's straight, because that poor person who is being fired deserved to have the have a straight conversation and to understand what was being said. I had to intervene at the last minute. We walked at the door because I realized you didn't know what it actually happened and that was a that was a catastrophe and I think that might that was a young manager, a new manager, and they learned a lot from that. You're aise a good point here, because obviously you on experience manager. I'd like to see it's not been also around the block party to be but I remember the beginning of my carry as being a manager and it was quite grey difficult because I was promoted from wizard. So I will I to manage basically my friends, which is not easy and you've got to really think about the emotion right, because it probably don't feel good about that. But it's not about me, it's about you today. What advice would you give to less experience me the like people will start to your that carry and obviously they can't get everything right straight when I don't sure it is spook about a few things of this week. Humility, you know, being able to appologize. It was kind of writing the couch of it. What do you think have the key call value on the key things that that a young leader should should really lost? I think if they got if they made peace with it's more important to be respected than light, and by that I mean that you have a responsibility to be unpopular sometimes. Get used to being the bad guy sometimes, and it's okay. That's part of your job. And if you cannot get past that level of discomfort and you don't, you shouldn't be a manager. So you need to make peace with the fact that you will have to have hard conversations and you will have to be unpopular and that it's part of the job. And so I would say also if there's a conversation that you wish you were having but you would you're not having or you're talking about someone behind their back or you're saying it to everyone but the person, that is a major red flag that you should be having a conversation with a person. So I am always hardest to my people's faces and I promote them behind their backs or, sorry, when I'm in the room without them, I promote them. But the toughest conversation you should have to someone on your team is to their face, not behind it back. And and it's about having integrity and it's about having the strength of character to be able to put yourself in uncomfortable positions. So keep challenging yourself to do it and think about the phrase clear is kind, unclear is on kind. And also, if you were the other person, would you want to be talked about behind your back or would you rather someone set it to your face and gave you a chance to fix it? Yeah, and I also think you know that. Another major mistake I see is people live leaf performance management conversations to the last minute where they're vague or the person is surprised that all of a sudden they're on a performance improven plan because their manager hasn't...

...been having those conversations. So it should not be one big dramatic conversation, it should be a series of so, by the way, I noticed this this week. That's you know, my feedback to you is x y zed, please don't do that again and move on and then shake it off, you know, don't carry it with you. Shake it off, put up behind you, move on. So, but I think getting comfortable with being unpopular is is is it? It's just a fact of leadership. You've just got to be there is some much, great, great things. From what you're saying, I can do protgue the point about letting the situation Festi on it a bit. Well, we see that with with younger manager where they don't really wanted dead off people or they don't want to have that non comfortable conversation with people, and what we try into. Good Jim, he's what who are speaking about. All you. You are helping them. So basically not giving them the feedback there and then quick on it and basically just just trying to brush it on the the calpet, you know, being in denial of the issue and again of thinking ways, okay, is going to get better. It's it's terrible things. You need you need to be on it, you need to speak about it at least, and you try, need to treat to put something in place. But we see that as an issue. Again, you know, from our side we do a lot of promotion from within. So there is always like a far months to six months time frame for people to really get up to speed. So now we've got to measure a bit of framework we've got. We've got an operatics academy as well. So we are bombited just to get quicker on to this concept that we am going to use the case kind and case isn't kind, because I think it's it's a great concept and actually a really incited but one thing I'd say that I've seen work really well and that I do with all of my teams is, and do it once a quarter or certainly twice a year, is this it's like speed dating feedback, and what you do is you have all of your team members and you give everyone a sheet with the name of every of different people on the team and they have to write three things I appreciate about you and one thing I wish you would do differently. And everyone, everyone gets paired and they have three minutes each and it's only between that person, each person, the individuals, the two individuals. But I do it with my team and so all of them are forced to tell me one thing they wish I would do differently, and so it may gives them permission to give me feedback and it also might show me some blind spots. Right. So if they're not uncomfortable, because everyone has to do it, it's just me in the person and I'm doing it for them as well, and I think I've seen that work really well. So it's like three minutes speed dating everybody one on one, and it's and everyone gets to take away their sheets at the end of the day as well, and references and when they do their next quarterly feedbacks, I should they can say, okay, has anything changed or is there is there a trend? HAS ANYTHING IMPROVED HERE? But it just makes it normal. It's like it's not a big deal. Getting feedback treatings. I appreciate about you. One thing I wish you do differently and everyone on the team is paired with each other and everyone gets to give...

...each other feedback, because even wraps, you can know reps have issues with each other as well, which they grumble about behind their backs, but they don't actually address this. So this is an opportunity to help instill that culture feedback. Yeah, we are, we are implementing something at the moment is different, but it's I guess it's got the same the same objective, which is really getting back on the managers and the people we run. Implements Industry six sleeping back, which is basically each manager. I'm I'll stopped with myself and my team, so we'll see what they what they come back with. That's good. Yeah, yeah, well, we really to do it because, you know, we want our managers to kill comfortable about it. So we wanted to do it to the manager before they get that's even doing it to them. But I think it's also very important to longer somebody the team things, you know, and in there we've got things like, you know, respect and I think we may want to resplace some of it based on the congression with this morning, you know, but some of the things that you mentioned. But it's free about trained on the stones if the leader is really anything because again sometimes I think, and particularly for the younger leader, you may try, you may think that you are doing your best, and it happens to me when I'm when I grew up in leadership, to think and doing the best and then releasing six months later that I was I was actually getting it completely wrong. And that's where we won't we think that the feed back, so you know, is that the speed dating, which we should also do, or the and I think to speed dating is actually quite interesting because with everybody working from him, you could be pair to pretty much anyone in the company. Oh you know, it doesn't need just to be out your direct reports. It could be also kind of Nice Way to meet New People in the organization, people you don't have the chance to speak of anways. But the three hundred and sixty fif back. Yeah, we we're going to push that out and see what happened. Have you I don't know if you're if you are Netflix, find out not exact. Yes, well, I've been you. I don't think we had the choice of our over covid nint do. But there is a problem that I watch now. I've been thinking about it quite a lot through the conversation, which is called last chance. You nurse. Yeah, well, o'ther, go and try to watch it. It's there is a few seasons. So there is one season about American football and one season about basketball and if you watch it, I don't remember the name of the people or why it was they with someone in the in California, I believe, and it's a it's a basketball coach with taking really unprivileged kids that are, you know, probably not really good to get to the rights university but are absolutely amazing athlete and basically there's a last chance in life to do something with themselves, because if they don't become a good basketball player, the chances are that they will go back to do some bad stuff. And and I think for the people who are listening to us that are not really keen on reading ready, all can do and read a book about it, but once toone Dost on the concept, they really need to watch less change you, because I think it's quite an emotional thing as well. But it's a coach that give them so much shit, the way you speak to them, passionate, telling them off. You tell them off...

...in front of other people, Right. So he does it. You know it will tell you off in front of the rest of the team, right, and he doesn't hesitate to put them in the spot and everything, which I think is when I was watching it at the beginning, it was not to comfortable with because as that's a terrible way of leading. Right, you should put them apart to them. But then you realize the back end of it and how much care for them. Right, all the thing that he does for them, and this is from my perspective, kind of really align with the conversation today, is a man that's really cared, is full of passion, but yeah, when it comes to will, he comes to crunch time when he's got something to tell you. I mean he is ridicule, is radical, is clear, is it doesn't sound unkind, but I think he's really helping them and the real it is that they go and win that championship, so he actually get them to the top so they also achieve something exceptional together during the season. So yeah, so definitely probably want to run through walls for him. They want to do it for him as well, because they know he cares. And you can see all the moments. You know it's emotion because some of them are up down there is some guys that he gets through, someone's I doesn't get through, and you can see how it's playing on their mind on both sides. You can see the leader and you can see the the play and it's I don't know, it's quite an interesting is full of of emotional intelligence, basic and I think it's really well done from Netflix, the way they filmed it. I don't know how much of it was scripted or not, but hopefully not too much. But yeah, I think it but it's not, it's not it's not Kamscut book, but I think if people don't really want to rich too much about it and I think get a context of the radical Kendall that's change. You the bestketball one is is one that they should watching. I encourage you to watch you and then give me your favor well, I will absolutely well, I think it also brings back to all of the best leaders capture the hearts of their people right. So think about how much more they means. People will go the extra mile for them because they know they are and they want to get back to them. Yeah, yeah, I mean, and you know it's it's something that's you mentioned that early, honest. But it's about being very true to your feelings as well. I have situation. I've got to admit that situation. Often it's very difficult to care about people. I had situation Wal. I found it difficult to strike a relationship with people, even if they were good, because for some reason, you know, yeah, not everyone clicks with everybody. That's normal. But I think I grew up now and you know, I think I've got kids, I've got all that. So I think it changed you a little bit in life. And now the people are coming in, I'm not. I don't maybe feel as much as I'm competing with them or whatever. It's more like, you know, you've got us, traded them as your kids. Right. It's O, Kate and affect and and I think one thing Hass Rea Change in my style is that maybe ten years ago I used to probably care because I knew that I yet to care or the look like I'm carrying hmm. Well, I know I can say it. That genuinely genuine care and I don't think it's easy for me to say, because he's my company, right. So, you know, it's, yeah, very important, because being genuine in all that...

...you all the things that we are discussing today, is also very important because the day people realize that you are starting to manipulate them and absolutely on agenda, I mean that's probabing. You went there's probably when good things just exploding in your face, right. So they can. They can smell it a mile away if you're being faked. But also, it's funny what you said. They're about kids. I I don't have kids. I have a horse and a dog and I never wanted kids. But I am. But I joked about joke to my previous past. I said I don't like kids, but I feel like about sixty of them. So I do. I did feel like the Mama Bear with them. You know, I've responsibility. I want them all to to achieve their dreams and keep them honest, and that's why I think about I want you to be able to go buy your house, your holiday. You're, you know, by the engage and ring, by whatever, a horse, and to do that I need to be tough with you right now, because you're you know. So that's why I think about it. But yeah, life, life is a life is really nics, not real sort. You've got to get it, get it now, and it's nothing better than anything. People you know better, humid people get into there. We've got we could eat the six finger club or people getting your class house and made them how slumming party. He's just better. Your even pot of it is just it just feel very nice. But in anyway we getting to the innovates. We've been spending fought too much time to get our Wendy. I think we could probably carry on forever. I wanted to thank you so much for going staking that. Are Really, really draid that from gus station. Now now what I'd like to to ask you that each people. Let's say I'm a European company. I love what you had to say about for new intelligence are. I want to speak to you about leadership or whatever. Basically, I want to have a check these. Wendy, was the best way to get one of you. I'm on Linkedin. So Wendy Harris on Linkedin, and and also you can contact us to the Gong website, which is gone. Doll iohe so be happy to chat. That's great. Well, thank you again it was great to have young this for today, free stays or alien and wish you very, very well. Thank you. Thank you, but my operatics has redefined the meaning of revenue generation for technology companies worldwide. While the traditional concepts of building and managing inside sales teams inhouse has existed for many years, companies are struggling with a lack of focus, agility and scale required in today's fast and complex world of enterprise technology sales. See How operatics can help your company accelerate pipeline at operatics dotnet. You've been listening to BEDB revenue acceleration. To ensure that you never miss an episode, subscribe to the show in your favorite podcast player. Thank you so much for listening. Until next time.

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