B2B Revenue Acceleration
B2B Revenue Acceleration

Episode 127 · 1 month ago

126: Retaining SDRs: How to Keep Talent Onboard

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Anyone with a sales team knows how difficult hiring and onboarding can be - particularly as the demand for skilled, experienced SDRs grows.

While you may have considered the lengthy timescale and cost of hiring a sales team, you may not have factored in one of the most frustratingly common problems sales managers face - the high rate of churn.

Maybe you’ve nailed the process of finding and hiring a talented SDR, but holding onto them is another factor entirely. Career SDRs are seemingly few and far between, with employees often using the role as a stepping stone to becoming an Account Executive or Marketer.

In this Episode of B2B Revenue Acceleration, Founder and CEO of Growth Genie Michael Hanson chats with CEO of Operatix Aurelien Mottier and COO of Operatix Robert Westell. They discuss how Operatix implemented an internal career path to help keep their top talent on board, motivated and consistently developing, as well as the importance of doing so.

To hear this interview and many more like it, subscribe to B2B Revenue Acceleration on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, our website, or anywhere you get podcasts.

... software executives stay on the cutting edge of sales and marketing in their industry. Let's get into the show. Hi, welcome to be to be over the new acceleration. My name is all I mtier and I'm here today with my confounder and business partner, robot twist or, who's also the CGU operatics Mykelns, and with a good fun of Auparieties, and today may would actually tell you us. So we're waiting for your question and looking forward to it. Yeah, we just to give a contacts about what I wanted to do this that. I'm sorry, sweetings, can't whor had a molting and was pretty interested in this system. You've got yea or the career path Willkay for us. The ours videos, and one of the reasons interested in one is something that I've never seen before. And the second thing is all of our lives where in the business sales consuls and working with lots, achieve running officers, she boxing officers and are away saying the problem with actually ours is they always when I moved there, all right, one becoming executive, so we're going to market saying there weren't view something different, and you don't have many what I would call career as ther so I think this is a great problem with the charm of yes, they're all wrong, and I think you've come up with their system to help solve that. Say I would lot to hear from from both of you about, I think, to start with, like, how did you come up with Charleston? Like, what was that? What was the storyline? WHO's come up? Was Crazy and is okay, and then most of them don't succeed, but this one I think we all too something entire thing. So I think first and FORMOS. I don't think we can expect Videasdea to readmain videas the our in their life. I don't think we want to work with that type of people who don't want to progress. In fact, ambition is forbare being one of the five attributed. We are looking into people's we want people progress and if we could get that from the first interview, if we get people who are really angry to progress on the first interview, that's really good. Carry O videas. We have some, we love them, we call them superstars, we call them legend which treat them like princes and princesses. They are valued as much as our operation director, US or leadership team, pretty much. But they are rare. Okay, this is that type of individ individual. Rare. They are excellent, that what they are doing their own fantastic money, but this is rare. So I think what PROB and I we're really trying to to understand this. How do we compete with vendors while strowing, sorry for the word, we use a stupid amount of money to resource that are sometimes videocal, okay, and we see people leaving us, done at that good and they go money that we will never think about paying the type of resources. But I think there is a desperation in the market. So I think what we came up with is some sort of a system where we have talents. We want to help the talents, we want to have a good one to really progress through the rank, but at the same time we need to be very clear about the tradeoff. We gift to people. Okay, we don't pay the bed...

...the most in the market. We are to be the man right. So we've got clients, we've got stuff. The clients are paying us. We need to make some margin. We need to invest in the business. were growing by fifty, sixty percent. You're on your you don't do that without cash. and to Ben Right, we need to make money, but we need to make it cree at. One employs that they should not come and join operatics for the cash element, for making money. Okay, the train operatics to accelerate that carrier. All right, we are Cana accelerator. We don't tend to recruit videos or as the other of a lot of experience. Well, in fact, what we are passionate about is finding viayments in the rough food and developed them. Okay, but the reality is that, see, if you take a day open in the rough, they start with us, within six months they'll salary probably went the bay seventy percent in the markets and in fact we've got a bit of a target in all back with also for Curtis and vendors and even clients. Sometimes will just see us as a big pause, but roll. So that's that's kind of answering your question as to why. Now, in terms of how we do it, I'd like crop to speak about what he's doing with the operatics academy, which I think is very exciting. First imply at noting. We try a few create path. We know what's right. It took a few versions to find them on the probably resonates with people just to carry our get for race sign. I would be two reasons we did it. I mean reps join us. You know, we take downs in the rough, we turn them into something's very appealing into the market. unfortune sometimes, I cause you promise the world and it doesn't call him up to ex spectation. So we kind of did the career path to kind of make stand with operatic's a bit more appealing in that sense as well. As you know, we kind of rip the Ruber Cup around the kind of salary, so we still have limitations around that, but it just gave people are kind of for step process within the life of an SDR to actually see some progression within that, that world of an SDR where you know you can have leaderboard, you can have all the kind of gon for case and stuff internally, but actually having a career path where you kind of climb the ladder as an Sdart was kind of what the kind of built the PREMIS with you. The career path on we're taking a step further the moment within the academy, the kind of whole into in employee experience within operatics. The career path is one of that. I'm in the career path of the SDR kind of then involves into kind of the leadership side of it. Put another three steps within that may come on to but to kind of work through that through the academy right from the kind of entry level selection process. You know, what does good look like? For at it's you know, we've kind of taken the career path of step further now where we've got a competition framework we have recently rolled out which, you know, historically kind of the career path and promotions were interview but we're really drilling into the condencies and that people were ready to progress even the kind of career path of level. You know, when you go from kind of the bottom of that ladder, each step now have a varying levels of competency. We've identified where you can actually you know, are you ready for it? And through the academy if you're not, but you feel you maybe are. The results are one thing that tell you ready for that next step. As that that next or level...

...of stre the comsy framework now and within the academy actually starts taking you to kind of get actives to content and learning before you kind of make that jump for all. I mean, is it worth touching or maybe the different steps of it as just going to ask that ys you managing a force that process somehow? Obviously I've seen it and I think it's pretty umber for the people listening that you might run us through each other. Those four steps. Yeah, that's I think we've kind of our own internal terminologies and then the kind of market equivalent. So what you might see our scrsist on linked heer isn't actually the same as maybe what you see within our turtle career path. So the operatic terminology is you kind of come as a rookie, you know, very green, varying levels of experience that we kind of see. We kind of pride ourselves again and maybe taking those times in the rough of varying levels of sales experience. Once you've kind of done that, each milestone within the career path, the four steps, you kind of got a qualification period with ideally six months. And what's quite refreshing, I think, about our career path is you don't necessarily have to do all four steps. You can actually come a rookie and jump right to the top level, which you call a legend, within six months, and you would have to come in and really hit the ground running to make it happen. It's not to say we haven't seen it left some there's a fill of father between, but you go rookie that you kind of come of prodigies, so you're kind of making your way up when you reach different kind of delivery milestones and other kind of behavior and attitude kind of bits and pieces that are in there as well for good measure. You've then move on to a superstar and then the final piece in the career path is our legends, which again it's not an easy status to achieve. Or perhaps over got quite a few of them, the other kick even thinks. I think we also try to make it interesting for those kind of superstars and legends. We didn't knows, very levels of perks kind of kicking along the way, but there's not a courtly incentive once she reach that kind of superstar and legged states as which just makes again another little gesture to say thank you for that consistent performance. Yeah, achieve that. It's more things like putting that picture on the world. Yeah, I but the lot of legends actually means a lot to people. You know, sometimes it's not just the paycheck that matters, it's how much people are looking up to. Mean the organization. Almost may respected in the organization. So we really try to create this environment. Well, you know, we wanted to put them the rock style, which's at you said it against which as well. I guess we had a superstar, rock stars and to be cheesy, but we really want them to be people at Aos of the way looking up to it's quite lonely, you know, to be in to be a legend. You know someone who's they walk up, they get they are very good money, but they will career the other talk and you need a thing to have that recognition. I think at some points recognisition when he's as important. Yeah, and it's easier for the manager to get recognition because of the job you do. But when you're on your own, you know with your clients setting up appointment setting of them, will doing them, was doing books or whatever, it's it's people only. So you know that that Alement of social recognition scheme where you're not live the names, because our notice as with all the families. They are like business aroundment associate service around is a senior business, whereas this makes it more human, like the Lergy they from superstar holing. We have...

...got the business world at the equivalent. So you've got your SDR as you kind of rookie equivalent, your SDR associate senior exempt you to excessd are to get that the order of them. It go. If you want to put something on your looptin, you can't really go and put in superstar Tuld I. My really no doubt that it pubably. Can't put that to the outside world. So just to go into a bit more detail on there. So how would they go, say, from a rookie to a prodigy? Is that based on white number of qualified meetings are going or how does that work? Yeah, it's all around what you know, not just volumes, about quality as well. You know it's a big part of the kind of career path. It's about that consistent performance. So each milestone, to go from one, you have to achieve a search of average over a pier of six months. So again that's where you could come in hit the ground running as a rookie or you start as a rookie, regardless of your background, that experience. But if you can hit that average six months to target for the legend and that sign month period, you can jumble straight to that miles day. Naturally we see people typically jump from one to the other and kind of really go for that evolution of str Fu yeah, there are the ones that kind of break the mold, which we see if your great as well Nice. Have you noticed that you've got back last trying to arrest the ours? They're staying, that you longer the have you been s the other maybe a still into three years, where to be something else, that it's not like after six months that they're wanting to do something else, you know, a change. The interesting thing because when you trade, forget the daiments from your rock. Some things you don't get to day. And so there is John that we facilitates and there is Chinns we don't really want and to be felt. This is one of the Carr of path. We've got many, even you, that we are. We are exploring more currently on the Hunted Property Fund and of people to actually create even more Cara Path. But we got it'll be beyond that. For examples of road with running the the operations, got Operation Director, Operation Manager, mentors and team leads and all that sort of things in the team. So there is also a pass or someone would be as repair stuff for six months and then, you know, as I had enough, I'd like to manage people, or they could be in what. I had enough. I want to become an a okay, I don't want to become customer success. And that is the breaking point. This is the this is the issue we've got, because we've got sometimes to deal with a little bit of this ilusion of people saying, well, what with a is? The altum seems to be very straightforward. Right. They get big money. It's pretty cool. It's easy under sent stuff. I just have to speak to people, bring my sc that were the job and it's going to be done. They don't free see clearly what the role is. Okay, and some steps, I'll get steps that you can take with just, you know, like a normal step. Some of those that fee don't. Later ladder moving from SDL to a probably the crane to take in the next step. So we've got to be careful. But we want to create two staff where we can support our people to potentially have the taste of what it is to become a customoscis as person. What is it actually means and on ties to be an a? Okay, because original it is to say we...

...come from, we can't keep them we got. I think turn over in our business is inevitable. There is some sort of a conveyor a bit of talent and, quite frankly, if you've got a good person that they're giving US twelve months, eighteen months ors of their life, do a good job for us and they want to progress and we don't have the characters from them. It's on us, it's not on them. They've been good that don that stuff. So we also tissue. Will support people to get out of the business and re sounds weird, but, as I mentioned to you, we've got lots of customers who really would love to fish in our pots and get some of our talents. But the risk here is that they would move that skelly. Yeah, you know the move that we spoke about. Rook is your birth stall age and it's kind of an origonal move. Okay, moving article is much more difficult moving up because you need to learn some new schemes and a good video. Good is your may not be a good customer success person. They may not be a good day, they may not like it, they may not be a good manager. You know, in fact, most of the top perform and that great manager. They are liking a little bit of empathy, emotionally intelligence. They offer you want to deal with people, they want to control their learning. They don't want other people to be part of that. So, but we want to do this year and that's that's in motion. It's free to credit environment where we say to our stuff, look, if we can give you the care opportunity, and you see, is the let's talk about it, which runs all being the know and control and make sure that you are going to a nice house, because that's the prime we've got. We've got so many good people who are being told, yeah, you're gonna get so copious, yeah, I know, taken little bit of an emotion. You can and join me as a video for six months and they have an a three months later. Whi Change Strategy, will channel lost my job. Notions are vested, everything is a part disappearing interface for his ringing. When you have me back, guys, and we never take that back. We don't want to set the president and this not. You know, you've got to make a choice. What we are trying to do, which is, and the market is crying junior I's. I mean that's a shortage. You think you know. We speak about the shortage of VIDEAS dre look at the shortage of sales people. Look at the shortage on VP's. Look at those all days of everything. Everything is in shortage to do. And this mad everybody was going to stay get to for copy because us and we work at some people and man. But we need to make sure that those people who will stick our name against and say these are operatics prove people when they go to a job they do they don't just want to deeper too and say how you know what Tonay for stree months actually don't related. Only go back to operatics. We want to avoid that. So we are trying to figure out a way to give them the experience of that kind of crane thing is going to the next step of moving vertically and just say this is what he looks like, because there is a bit of desilusion as to what the job actory is. I'm pretty sure some people look at Robleson seems to be easy, or wasn't calls with clients. Stick to them. I can let right, they don't fell not some what he is doing. But you know it is it's like everything you do. People will look at it from the Ol sense until Sime. Sorry, and it just...

...seems it seems a little bit easier on the other side. So think of skating. I as my kid, was watching the UMP seals skating. They going to get some. You shouldn't do three the produce when its rest and trying to do what they make it look gracious. He's like the Swan and then the lettle legs on. That is going like that. That's the thing that thinks people, but you learning without the beginning of that carrier do not appreciate. Yeah, and I think the Dishue we've got in the US that people are confused between speed and actually developing themselves and they go to quickly and bold their wings. Yeah, and we've got less less of that probably in your ape. Think people are being more cautious, but in the US people would not isitate to just think that big step. They'll be more gored zy. But then you know, the higher you go, the tough of the fullest right. So you know the type of demographically higher. There's a lot of kind of urgency to want to be promoted to right. I mean we are culture is built on promote from within. It's probably one of the real essence of what we build the career path, because still wanted to people to feel that they were kind of developing and it was some part way through that career path. I mean you talk about superstars and the legend. There's sometimes the people that don't want the headache of managing our right set. Yeah, so kind of partway through that career path is for we time we didn't mention this as the mental the mental health to the sounds an aigment leader, the kind of equivalent title, but basically a part deliverance. They're still keeping their still got a thing on the pulse of how to do the job, but they move into a kind of coaching role which is kind of hand holding our new starters. It's really that kind of first step on the road to leadership. And again the academy then support some and Kittin ready for that and then you kind of move to this operations manager role. you start getting bit of exposure to clients and people. Then your operations direct to you start managing revenues and pls. You breasily verge your on company was in the business. They have that and the manage on Pendo was in the business with the other business. Or now, in fact, this year we actually didn't give them a budget. And see you bage. You tell us what you're going to do. We'm going to push on be on you. You tell us what you are doing. It was get up fantasy crime is it's incredible. Obviously growings for reels. These are people want the foot's reels are going that. They met the guild two three million pounds so they could read of street to Fabian Donas business do. So it's pretty impressive. That's awesome. One other things as thinking about you, it's working about this career of offers at another issue, resay, I think, so reader, or training and coaching. So all the stos have been training coach. They come to our saying overlooking for a new job and there f our clients were lowertys our bids and we say, Oh, why, you looking for rights and I say world, why do you relieve? I thought you were happening. We're really good job. And I said well, yeah, that's the problem. I've been hitting my target for a year, two years, and I don't know what's going to happen. Like I don't know really have promoted and so I think might take...

...away from that is it's like really important to set expectations. I ran from the start. So whether your career parts like when you've got asked ours comings of the business is out one of the things you're doing, like straight from the start, saying like this is what can happen to you. People are really coming in with no false ilutions. You know they can clear see a clear progression path. Again, we have to be realistic the whole career path. It doesn't delay chair and we're never going to remove channel together, right, but I think you know, we're covering that very much in the interview process, in the onboarding induction process. Just re emphasizing it. So it's again the rules of engagement at clear you know. You do this, you will get these opportunities, you will get these financial rewards, you will get these perks. There's no false promises. It's all there. It's documented. You've got a copy of it. You can clearly see when you're wings at milestone. We make a lot of noise when someone moves from one one, one step to another. I think people buy into it. But ultimately we can't lose that. You know, we've got do you want to push the promoting within culture that this kind of just sort of puts the brakes on it little bit. So yeah, really through sharpen your saw, really kind of work on your skills over the next twelve, eighteen months minimum, as we say. We're even get the point now with the Career Path as weld further as well. Look, even if you wake your way through the career path, we're being quite open transparent as any shown the opportunities we can create. So now it's time to look at a path as well, which is another step and to the career path. So it's changing, it's evolving. But yeah, definitely kind of visibility of full transparency from day one and we can get off fire everywhere. The first duration of to carry up lenny world doing it more. That's clear to explain why this will that promotion. But secury towards the operation team and then you start to see, obviously, as usual, pleased or fantastic platform people saying, oh yeah, don't think they are fair in the way they you think that Blah, Blah Blah, which is really awful for us, because we try to be fair with people and because, though it's just probably should that I should remove my Luggy, because sometimes you read some stuff in your good why? But point that people want to make is that now you really, I mean rock, created the scope of competencies. It is tangible. Yeah, right, and when you make a tension, when you say to people, okay, like your own progress, it's an all still need to meet. I would you score yourself again, some of them again. Sometimes you still have a little bit of disolution. But that's the first that's the first thing that people get. Are are okay, absolute was much simpler than that. I don't really that. He emo, surely intelligous. What does that mean? But some what Equ and you start to explain. So well, are you that sort of person? Now, okay, but maybe there's Sual CARAPA. So for the people who are managing fact, I was on the front with one. Are you on this week? We have a lot of people that don't know what they want to do with themselves. You know, and I was the same. You know, when you are twenty, twenty five year old selves even sometimes towards the ASERTS is. People may not know what they want, but they still want us to ever, and that's why it becomes difficult for us. So all those things are great. We've got to walk from the say, Sixty Five, seventy couset of the people poor. They look at it and they have...

...some supports of the population that don't really fit. You can't fit everything into the process. So we seem trying to add them, but the only people we contact is people who don't know what they want to do with themselves. You know, people are just little bit confused. So if they know an if they have focus, and even if that focus is outside of operatics and they've been a good soldier, a good coast of operatics, this year we're going to make the commitment to actually turn our recruitment arounds, you know, and push them out to the market. Right. We've already spoke to some fantastic clients and we knew the clients that can develop people, right. We have people that we spoke to, that we worked with milly them in the past. We've seen them developing people. You see them recruiting our guys, because we've got to pull and trons find our contracts or clients and then we get for years, but we've seen that developing our people to become as to become. So you've got this and then you've got the guys which just like you know what, I don't want to wait there, but just going to give them a one point five million dollar a quarter and quite frankly, you think on you swim. Yeah, all right. So we don't want them to go in the same swim or saying type of things. We want to get them in the in the place where there is scape, where there is maybe not that academy, but at least also a career path. So we want to find clients who are sharing the same passion we've got about talents and if it's the end of the role with the talent here, we want to make sure they go to another play, that we developed them and what are absolutely either support me, will speak at ten o'clock, ten sets at that. Gay is going to the company. Why? How do we let that happen? You know, he's kind of mess two or three of them his life or all life or whatever, but you can't see anything because they look at the price in the price is like ten came on them basic series. Someone say the lold options. I don't even know what they are. No idea about the volume, no earlier about the class, but the only option. So I'M gonna go for it. And they are completely blended se people who are deeply in love. You can't see anything that you're gonna go through. So we trying to credit environment because we actually mean it and and we want the people with substract carrier out to leave operatics, nostegic and ask man, because what we see now is also, for ex some pretty coming back as customers will be for ten years, and I think it's the most fonderful things that we can get free. But we need more of us. Right then, if you greatly get CDs, quite shown e. When someone could you. So I'm just in town. Are you in the office? Would you make meetium for the An said thank you, but I'm doing that now and you know you are a big part of my car. We have that either. That's what we I am so we want more of this and it's an evolving, ongoing development process and we will never be perfect, will never get off everyone, but yeah, we put a bit of an efforts see, imagine something ariage. I think probably a lot of people less things versus like leaders were lighter of our life in the market. You have a good selves parts and or like a st all. I got charactro in this huge off a little bit like really other estates allgets or they shouldn't take up but...

...they're young and I even they don't know. WORL advice for us to leaders in terms of the conversations that are having with stos to help them see, you know, life's not about fighting, about learnings, development. What? What kind of conversation show you having to rest there on that when well, fun if we've been done some chace in morning, probably a that time of it. It's kind of, you know, part of the can go back to the career path and coming to a quite I'll come to your question, but you know our frustrations when people go and do the same things as for all they know. We've kind of hope to combat that by saying look, stick at it for a bit longer and I think the opportunity with great Wande. Course we have to trust the process. It's kind of for us the conversation we have in turned is what storage you want? You'll see me to tell. I think that's how we kind of advise and try and guide people. Really know that there's if you could conduci you just ste there's your me six months they're six months l six months out and they say use you for somewhere. Think you're with have an isciser. But we experiences right what we've done and you know probably been tempted at times over the years and previous companies and whatnot, but kind of stuck at it. But I think it's actually giving people platform to kind of check in with them understand what they're actual their motivators are. We've become very big on goal setting over the last twelve months, a ten months. You know, lockdown, specially if we've lost a bit of the culture with the whole hybrid and remote working. Kind of knowing what makes people tick has become more more apparent. So actually being able to tap into that and use actual advantage about how can the progress their career is I think when people trust that you're actually doing it for they're good. You know that one of the both alling things flustered race is when people come back as customers. I think people we've got so many success stories, people that have actually trusted us and gone through the process and the promote froming culture and all that. One Who stuff that. It's not just a promise, it's a reality. You can see it. You can see people have gone through that career part and it's achievable, attainable. They're not pim the sky. Targuet's I think something that's it says. It's like serious a crostomers stories. You're like clients by us the stories of people inside Your Business that I've concering life and you're saying how you will say say like she's had this amazing. We need to do more of that. So we don't want to be condescending with people, you know, and we try to show them that we care about talents through actions. That's US wats. We've been thinking about bringing some of the ex employees that have gone through the path that we have. We've got some fantastic example and we still end so we don't just end them once. I've got one that just gave me a call and it's funny because it's an ex employee that was were pretty and we introduce another ex employee and then they got together and it's a great story. We had another day event and it's great to see you're those things happening, but I guess if you wanted the Vida, you started with a six months. We don't see any of that, you know. And and if some of them walk from home, some of them are based in the US. We've come be in the US or the type. So even if you've got the leadership team there, they may not appreciate or the effort we are making. But we really trying to do action. Got Use walls. We may want to get some of the...

...people coming because we have a people say, look, I want to speak about my very, very, very bad experience of having not listen to you and actually messing it up. I feel that I need to express it to people who are probably thinking like I was thinking back then. And we've been a bit tradition to that, because we don't want to do propagandayes. Thin've got to be careful with the visit your generation. So they were looking, they were searching and it's to night. So so how do you prevent them before? That's all the things we discuss from the recruitment process, from the first conversation. Are you looking for money? Are you looking for Carol Development. Yeah, I'll trade off with them. We won't pay you as much as a vendo right were your own fifteen pero less. Okay, but if you start without experience, in six months time your value in the market will be seventeen. Doesn't more your basic that's not one that you get. Number two is that we probably would accelerate your career by two X or streeks. Okay, so if you join us at twenty three, by the age of thirty, can pretty much guarantee as you be on six or more. Sorry, pretty much, if you stick to it, if you are a good guy, obviously, if you don't turn up, if you don't do your job, if you complain all the time, if you just do a good person, you know you would never get there. But if you get to it, I can guarantee you that you're going to get and we've got sometimes of example. We probably have twelve serts an example, in the company of young people who promoted from within. Now it's about the eat at more scale and it's about people Al Understanding that and the what we don't do well at the moment, because I think we need to speak about what we don't do when is we don't create a safe environment for people to speak. You know, if you ever went to an is with my manager, Mikey, right, mighty, your great guy, you work super hard. Yours that eight SORTSU even six. You try to end me, but yours on course with clients. So technically you don't tell me and the reason why I'm failing is because of you. But I'm going to tell you that because I like you, because I respect you, I'm not going to tell you that. I'm just going to tell you what you say in the operationship. It's not you, it's me. It's too good. I've got to go with that guy, I've got to go with that girl or whatever, and that's what people do. So when you get this sense of creating a safe environment, wh I don't have to go to make here for my review, but I could go to someone else with completely out of the business and going to psychologic right, you can tell, you can split the deal of something, you can speak about something that you will not speak to with your manager. So that's the environment that will working on creating. is yet of people. So we are expecting to really get to the essence of what you need to get better out because it's difficult to become self aware. It is we alswer for while. It is difficult to make changes if you don't know what the issues are, and even for managers, manager that is not communicating with that team may not even realize. Yeah, right, and they will. All these people going to really love you, you know, as a bit of a tlhenduregoing and stuff, ms I want to really like me. You know what could have done better? We never get to the truth. So we want to...

...create that safe environment. Well, we do do things. First of all, we get to the reason of why people want to live. We still believe that people don't leave for money and we believe that the need for the managers and we I don't think we will see properly until we get to the bottom of that one. We also believe that people need direction and they need someone that isn't a manager. So you know what making I don't think you've Averbu with a because these are the skill set of an ad. This are the successful one and if I compat and with your skills at in your scope of competency, I don't think it's the right path. I think you should consider that, pers but that passed. Other thing, we speak again in one months and, by the way, I can introduce you to a few people while doing that job, so you can speak to them and tell them about the things we want to create. That sort of things. What people actually get a real ide of. fends it looks like out there, because recruitment right now for us, the Abdea and our people that are being pushed. They're not being people. Are Not trying to recruit them set as into match, they are saying that company to them, come enjoy me, you. You are the peractic. You've been there for my amounts. You've got to be good something that's be good with you. Then they will as like you. All right, so I want you and that's not good. You should never accept a job without knowing what you said into. You should never accept the job that you are not passionate about. Yours on the intricacity of the job. You're all some of your planet will be calculated. You should never accept the job for any never when you should be a very product of doing something you like and some things are good at. But trying to explain that to someone who's, you know, get twenty tble on that basic salary good luck doesn't me you can go through. So it's our doing credit environment. Well, we can because we really want to help, but it's frustrating. Is I wasn't courage this week at nine pm may time with someone in the US speak about that car and just con comprehens some of the decision the Magain, I respect that is you know, we support them because they've been good to us and I will learning what they go they want to do. But I think to Ross I couldn't see property conversation and I'm thinking maybe I've been something wrong. It's on me. It's just difficult. But it's an ongoing things and when we speak in one year, I we should ever get sup in one year to see what we know she looks like. But I think we have much more probably we see that. Be Happy, but you know, Nice. You're definitely contrapening is I think this is such a hot toback and I think I don't think the market is going to change. Run for them St will be a very relevant in one year that there's one one. LST has chance. Are So iwas a writs analogy because are working for around as lasting ours. I think I should be considered partners and pairs and all the ideasy as the oars boss where sometimes happens other companies. So no, really, the analogy idea is like the midfield is the ASDR he setting up. Obviously in the strata is the I need to score right. So it in line with that. Obviously very trying to ativated gus the our profession,...

...because I think even psychologically, some stars girl like I and an s the old and I hate hearing that because I think it's such stress an important role. It's outside. Obviously this career part of that you're talking today. What are some other ways you think that we can alivates the opera fashion, both psychologically fastils themselves, but also, like from leadership perspective as well. It's good to be working for RUBB'S A foo buller is. There's a bit offen, but the Tis. So I think we kinder, not so much anymore. That's that's a good question. I mean we see it with our clients, the ones who actually value the SDRs and embrace them and see them as a kind of the partnership, not just you know, some SDRs go into those relationship, but we feel a little some servant thinking their roles beneath the A and that side of the that's the pinnacle and I'm here to serve that person. We're trying to kind of well clients that actually kind of embrace what we do from the marketing team, sales teams and the earth of the guys go to because, you we said, earither front of the sales pot right, there's nothing really happening without their bashing down those years. That's in a lot of our clients where, you know, it's more count based marketing, going a bit colder. You know we're not. We've got to do some sort of in boundits and pieces, but a lot of our guys are kind of got that tough slog of trying to generate interest in terms of kind of promote the A rol. That I think how we do it on our side is kind of explaining to our guys in the kind of onboarding, induction, training and whatnot, of kind of part they play in the sounds cycle and I kind of come into a slide different mindset how we get the outside world so actually recognize the tough game that I do. I mean, you think they were by the Stos in the Mormne? I would do anything. So as there is a lot of appreciation. Nothing that would be more about putting bounds on. See huge shortage from personally believe that a strikers got to be very, very bloody good if it doesn't have a good big field, and I think the best striker get that. Yeah, I think the striker that don't get the big field and will complete every singletty don't get the balls will never rescop any goals. I don't think they will have lots of carry on botmities, but the legendary one they would get that. So again we kind of verging into that. Clients. When you've got to clients and steem new comes, out of ten fifteen people, you would have two, three better bors. They don't want to play the game. You don't set valued as they are. Maybe they are the chance to level the job in dife. Yeare, so they don't feel it. I think the only way to elevate the role would be for everyone to have done the job. Know, when we have clients who actually have done the job, the respect is instance, you know, and they under stone ups and down. From psychology perspective. You don't have to explain. They've been that themselves. Sometimes you've got your modules, sometimes you don't tell your go joe. Okay, so this are the best set up. The problem is the people who is who have never done it. They've never picked up a funny devils and an email it would write a playbook, though. They would write your playbook. Yeah, yeah, sorry for the product guy. Well, but they may be a...

...product guy. Just say why. I way to play book writingil. Have you ever saw anything? If you ever set a meeting and girls at the day when Your Life? Absolutely not. But they have the product by art. Okay, well, that's going to be a great play book. Not your disrespect to anyone, but I think we have to give a lot of respect for that sort of functional in fact, the reason why I started at a practice is because I really saw that starting at the bottom doing tailor marketing back in the day. So I was really at a marketing or recruitment but I was in the UK and I was like, if I want to cut my teeth, it's like military service. If I can prove that I'm good at that, I'm probably going to have a good care and I was reading a lot of autobiography of people who study door to door setting and things like I become ceosi investor. So I got into my head and that's where I see to do. It out supposed to be six months. It's been fourteen years, so that it's been a bit, a bit of a spiral. But that's the sort of people that that's the sort of thinking that people should have. You've got to think about this is the military service. This is a tough geek for people. This is very difficult in only the people who have not done the job don't appreciate and respect the job. Okay, so, I mean you begun to a the strike us to play at midfielders where sometimes, and and I would be if I was a CEO of companies, and I would see my service getting of respecting the the inside selves. People are. Put them on the phone. I've paid a lot of money, but probably put them for a few days and just do it. Show me if you can do it it now. Let's see what you are. Yeah. Well, I always say a should generate at least aboutter and my find you here. It's fite the sound right, so they on the sun, everybody. So, yeah, the other thing I say, as well as if you start our in business and they won't be on for clowns. Sometimes the entoursure was the person. You do our business. Yeah, business right, solutely. That to warn. Yeah, well, yes, being a pleasure of thanks for letting me me hirest enjoyed learning of kids. Thanks, hike. You can, of course to. You just like it, give it nobody. I mean, that's pretty cool. That is good. And let's beat up when you're taying. Let's see what we are, because Robb is cooking a lot of fatile phase is the don't kitchen is carry off as kitchen work. Yeah, WE'RE gonna make some face. I trustickly. It's going to be fine. We're gonna for it. Then we're gonna tell you about all learning. Also, nowther for that conversation. Thank you, Mike. But just you've been listening, to be to be read a new acceleration. To ensure that you never miss an episode, subscribe to the show in your favorite podcast player. Thank you so much for listening. Until next time,.

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