B2B Revenue Acceleration
B2B Revenue Acceleration

Episode · 6 months ago

107: Revenue Operations: What It Is & Why It’s Important


Revenue operations, or RevOps, has entered the revenue conversation. Because it’s a newer role, many leaders are trying to wrap their heads around what it is and whether they need to implement the function at their company.

Megan Heinz, Director of Revenue Operations at Mainsail Partners, and Mark Kelly, CEO at NewEdge Growth, join the show to define RevOps and to explain why it’s so important.

We discuss how RevOps is different from sales ops, how to measure RevOps success, the challenges of implementation (including when you should do it), and finding the right people for your RevOps team.

To hear this interview and many more like it, subscribe to The B2B Revenue Acceleration Podcast on Apple Podcasts, on Spotify, or on our website.

Listening on a desktop & can’t see the links? Just search for B2B Revenue Acceleration in your favorite podcast player.

So you were listening to be tobrevenue acceleration, a podcast dedicated to helping software executives stay on the cutting edgeof sales and marketing in their industry. Let's get into the show. Hi, welcome to be to be a revenue acceleration. My name is alien.With you, and today I have the pleasure of welcoming too, guests inthe in the podcast. Megan Hines, director proven you operation of Mainsay,pop knows, and Mark Kitty, see you of new age growth. Areyou both gay? Doing today? Wonderful. Thank you so much for having me. Yeah, pleasure of pleasure. So today we will be speaking aboutthe importance of revenue operations. But before we get started, can you guysgive a quick in tradition to we you are we you walk for, andI think we should start with ladies felt, so mega join it with this.Good yes, thank you. I'm Megan Hinds, and I've been workingin Sass or software, as a serving businesses for the majority of my careerin varying operations roles and now with mainsteal partners. I really have the pleasureto work alongside our portfolio companies to help skill their organizations. So mainsale isa growth equity firm and we focus on bb software solutions and specific particles.Very, very good. We thank you very much for again markable to you. Yeah, so thanks for having me. My entire career has been in theBB space and I've held probably every position under the sun related to productor marketing or sales. Most recently, of held titles as chief marketing,off search if revenue officer, one of which was with a mainsale for foliocompany, and about six years ago I founded a new edge growth and weare focused on helping marketing and sales leaders, revenue leaders, really help them growand and define their process and the revenue engine, and so we focuson that from a standpoint of what we call the sport of growth, sostrategy, process, operations, repeatability and results, and then technology finally,of course. Sounds Great. Well, thank you so much for that,gay is that that's formed off wood and in thanks for participating today. Solet's get going. Revenue Operation. So it's a bit of a buzz.Walt, I've got to be ans with you in the preparation of the podcastand as we good game like, he's revenue operation. The Semis site.Is Operation? Is it operation? Operation with I'll do two worlds, likegetting together and creating that new tie to at that I see growing everywhel.See A lot of PROVENU operation people coming out of the woodwork. So let'sstart with what it means from your prospective guy and maybe making you want toget us going. But you know, I guess my main question for youis what was the definition of proven you operation? How does that I'll isdefferent from starts operation. Yeah, great question. I'll start by saying that, just like sales operations, revenue operations are reb ups and sometimes it's referredto really exists to drive the efficiencies and best practices to the growth engine ofstealing businesses. So there's really no difference there. But because revenue growth intoday's world cannot be limited to just sales, we really need a model for aligningevery go to market team and your strategy for that customer growth. Sorevenue operations is really the set of the steps, processes and tools that areindustry tested and intended to grow with the business in that way. Okay,so who end support from sers worlds us all function with becaustomers success, becausethat's what was one was all tied to it. He's coming up a lotcustomers success with the people walking of taking their clients and the journey as acustomers. That is the only play. All that will come as a functioningin rib ups. Hope I'll you seeing you as a function draining in multipledifferent functions. So every go to market team, it's really your marketing,your sales, your product, your customer success, everybody that's customer facing,everybody that has a part in the customer...

...journey. Good. All right,thanks for letting again and mark from your perspective, revenue ups or Rib ups, the's fools sets ups. What what do you see? The the maindefferences, if you see any? Yo, there's definitely a difference and I thinkMegan nailed it right. It is fifteen years ago, revenue or,sorry, sales ops, was what was, you know, the the term thatwas being used, and probably about three or four years ago revenue opsstarted taking a greater role and and Megan nailed it right. It is.It is. It spans the entire process of the customer journey, right fromthe time that they are doing research to try and figure out how do Ifix this problem. I have through the entire sales engagement to post sales andthat on boarding and customer experience. Right. That entire that entire chain is whatdefines revenue operations and it's really coordinating the playbook across the entire company toenable that to happen. Okay. So, so, saying was your mom,who would you say should be one? I think you went through the defrondteams. That should be a line we ups. But who is edgingup, Prov up saying that in that in that time that come down?So it's a good question. Right, if you have a if you havea chief revenue officer, you know that that probably rolls up to that person, but it does. It needs to be somebody who does have visibility acrossall the different functions. Right, it is, and it's anybody who hasa direct touch point with the end customer. Right. So those are the folkswho are involved in this revenue operations. Now, do they participate and dothe REV OPS function? No, but the REV ops person, personwho's in charge of the team, there's in charge of it, needs tohave access so they can measure. No different than, let's say, ifyou were to use an F one's analogy. Right, if you're an F oneteam, you have multiple engineers who are working on different parts of thecar and of the race. Right, each one has a role to ensurethat the outcome is that you place as high as you can get points.Right, in this case it is we are trying to generate revenue. Sohow do we coordinate everybody to make sure that we're all operating as efficiently aspossible? Okay, so that's pretty as our type of responsivity team eyes.Okay, in my eyes. Yeah, let's took about Measureman, guys,because there is again the function is so broad. So you've got the youngbuilding of the customer, you've got wading, the customers on building the customer,keeping the customers. So I guess one of the one of the thethe measure of success would be ongoing revenue and and and the montster recurring revenuejust adding up. But do you see any KPI's all? Okay, y'all, that could be broken down. I'll do you. I've you seen anyspecific methodology of companies driving their Riv ups team with specific targets or specific Apasat what went? Yeah, just like you said, I think it hasto be tied to the revenue and in that sense there's a lot of tpieswithin that we can measure, but both of gross revenue net revenue. Retentionis a great one, or NR's it's referred to, because then you're reallymeasuring both aspects of the revenue maintained as well as the new growth within andto be able to view that over time is a great measure of your revenueoperations roll. You know, one a layer on top of that that Ihave really been up put a focus on with one of my clients is aroundvelocity. And so often we focused around sales velocity and that's important, right, because you can measure each of the stages and how well you're converting throughthe stages. But I also try to help them imagine the velocity measurements aroundthe marketing side, so the demands enzyme, as well as even velocity as relatesto customers, customer lifetime value,...

...to enable them to start thinking aboutwhat is the revenue impact of everything that we're doing. So it's important tokind of and it's becomes a sheared measurement at that point, right, andthat that shared measurement then allows you to get out of silos, as Ithink that you think about differ functions and allows you to work across the team. Yeah, yeah, thanks to mock and Mar could. Just wanted topick something from your introduction, which the lass spots. That's your broad seawith sticknology, which which I like this. Often people are stuff. We stickstuck fast. What's your thick stack? And then we try to find outthe blueprint. That feel the back. So the kind of taking it dealsa way around putting the architects. When the the the house, he'salready good. But from the technology perspective, you know, I'm expecting something likese spalls dot come to be quiet all of the journey, if youwill. Do you have any specific new thought? Vendors, people di beingor well, really involved in the REV up. So a solution that's you'veseen helping reb ups professional is a streamlining some of the processes all, asyou mentioned, increasing the velocity. Yeah, so are you asking? You thereanybody? Any new vendors out there? You asking just like how I approachit with clients. Get off both security. I mean I'd like toknow your lily new technology that I've not been a still a little bit onthe on the radar, but and also I'd love to Tec know you approachit with clients. Yeah, so I'll tell you if you if you'd spendany time looking at the marketing stack. Right, Scott brinker has his technologylandscape, is marked technology landscape, which has over eightzero companies in it.It is daunting, right, and part of the challenge, I think,with companies is that they they have a problem, they know they can fixit and they typically will find the first solution that fixes that problem and theystruggle with the holistic view of really what they're trying to accomplish. Right.So the challenge, I think many people have a the way we get engagedwith most client this is will come to us and is typically with a salesforce technology problem. Right. I have sales force. It doesn't work well, it doesn't typically doesn't work because you've not you don't know what your processesare, you don't know what you're trying to automate or what you're trying tostreamline or what you're trying to optimize, and so consequently nothing gets done.If you have a Ferrari sitting in your garage that you drive to the mailboxright now. It's you're not using it as intended. Right. That thingneeds to I think, needs to go. And so so technologies that I thinkyou're flying under the radar. It's tough because there are a lot oftechnologies that do really good things, really, you know, very narrow but verydeep way. Right, we have a project my partner and I areworking on right now that we're wrapping up this week with a pretty good sizedbank here in the US that has done an incredible job of using technology.But they've also that's also been their achielees heel. They've spent so much timeacquiring technology that they have all of these, you know, islands of experience andtechnology excellence, but it's not coordinated, it overlaps, it is not fullybeing realized, and so they're trying to rationalize everything they have and seeare the technologies that can that can do what we're already paying for. Andso I think that's the biggest challenge right and and for for companies. Iif I had to give them any advice, is you need to slow down beforeyou go fast. So take take the time to slow down, analyzeeverything you're doing, realize what you're trying to optimize and then make your moves. Don't buy the technology first because it slows you down. I didn't reallyanswer your question directly, but I like it. I like it because youknow why you can offense of the that question can of came live in mymind and and it's because I just come out of a few cours this afternoonwith people asking me for a text tax,...

...text tacts, textack. What youusing? What's new? And I think, to your point, peopleare quiet achnology. People have garages full of ferraries but they don't really useany of them right and and and and when they use them they can createsilos. So you may have a team being very, very good at usingtheir only little technology and they're really exploiting that best of brick stuff for theirpart, but then it's not really communicating with the rest of the of theof the system. So it's quite an interesting topic. And I'll take thatjust one step further and I'll let it die. Is People, companies andclients of mind. I've got one right now who will acquire a duplicate technologyjust because it has one feature the other one doesn't. So the enterprise hasa technology that they have standardized across the company, but this team has decided, because it doesn't have this one feature, we're going to acquire an exact duplicateof another technology to do it for them. Yeah, versus just workingor just doing a workaround right, it's creating complexity for your it departments,creating complexity for your team as it relates to other departments, and it's notI don't think that. As I say, the juice is worth the squeeze.Now would agree with you again. I just related to tow us ifyou've seen any common mistakes when companies are implementing Riv up roll or team toget in your point for you, would we be the common mistate that youusually see? Yeah, I would say a lot of growing pains. Asyou mentioned, this is a newer role. I believe some companies are seeing thattrend and they're just really making a change in title with their existing team. But as an organization, I don't think you can just change the titleof that existing ops role or team and expect all of the details to workitself out in a way that really has a foundational impact towards that less siloadapproach that we were talking about. So in my opinion, it really needsto be a conscious, consensual change and how the entire organization is operating tobe successful, as opposed to just focusing on what the title is. MakesPerfect sence me again, what about Smoki of anything to to? I don'twhat make just said. Yeah, and I'm with my going to you knowa lot of companies have just changed the title right and makes make it soundbigger. I think for that to be effective, though, the team youneed to have experience across the organization you're trying to support. So we're valueis created, right, is somebody who has sold before and now they're ina revenue operations roll. They've done marketing before and now they're in a revenueoperations roll. They've done customer and client success, now they're in a revenueoperations role. Having that that, that on the job experience will bring somuch more to the function itself, right and then really truly having people whoare spirited and really passionate about analytics and processes and have that kind of engineeringmind to how it works. I think those are the components that really I'veseen enable a team to be most effective with revenue APPs. Yeah, youcan. of He is great. You can have read my mind. Andresponding to the next question, which is, let's say, let's say a CEOALL CR or seem I'm listening to be a piece of today because Iwas doing some results roving the operation. What does that mean? All thepeople in the bay area and blist done every or just stop that I knoware recruiting produce sport. I kind of feel that I need one great knowwhat it is. Well, we's need to recruit that individual and I thinkyou gave some good kind of nuggets of information as to what that doesn't shouldI in know, pro fine from you again if I was to stopped.Its okay, I want to find the right doesn't want to write adjust.Thank all I want as the right question from you. All those big teamwhat should they be looking for in that...

...individual that can pretty much kind ofgoor the functions together? Yeah, I would say in terms of personality traits, curiosity is a big one, because that's really how you start to understandand divulge and kill back all the layers within your processes and text ac toreally see. Okay, what is the heart of the problem? I maybe getting as an operations roll, all of these potential projects thrown at me, but I really need to be curious, dig in, understand what is thebaseline issue that I'm trying to solve and how do I solve it acrossmultiple different departments at the same time, not just taking one sideload approach.I think sense. Yeah, I love that Magna. I think that Ilove that word curiosity, because the word I often use is critical thinking,but curiosity, to May get kind of works even better because it's always askingwhy, right, why is this working well and why is it broken?Right, and then leveraging your problem solving skills to fix it or to enableit to repeat. Right, if it's working well, where you want torepeat that and make it more efficient. If it's not working, then howdo we fix it and improve it? So I love that. I lovethat word. Yeah, and let's question. Guys ready for me, for me, today's stage of companies. So again I'm a see you all myfriends are doing it. They have the spread ups, people coming coming outof everywhere. I would do I know if my company need that individual right, because if I'm a start of a started yesterday, I may want tohave won because you know, I got lots of investment and it's cool tohave won that ups. Probably that the way people are thinking. Sorry,it's probably so. Yet I would think about getting at some points. Butwhat's the was the inflation point where you've got to stop thinking about Trev upsand what's The journey before? Even so, if you don't have it, Iwould you see the journey to deal with the issue that REV UPS isdealing with? When would you implement Rev ups? Number of customers? Isit is, it is, it is. It's when you're seeking more investment.Is when you become public. Is that? He is on the ruleof some what are your thoughts on that? It's a wide open question. Gay, I'm so sorry. No, no worries, mark, I'll takeit first, if you don't mind. But I love this question because it'sone we often get and one that companies start to think about a little bitlater on in their growth journey. But I like to say that there's nobarrier to entry for revenue operations and similar to if you're Thursday, you probablyshould a drink water like thirty minutes ago. You know. So if you're askingyourself the question, when do I need up ups. You probably alreadyneeded it. It's something that, like we said, is intended to trulyimplement and grow and scale with Your Business and, like mark was touching onit, you can really help resolve some of those problems before their problems andyour text doc or any of your processes if you're having somebody or a teamthat's truly focused on it in the beginning. So I love that question. It'sone we always get and one that I always say like now is theright time, no matter where your business it's right now. Yeah, youknow, and I think I think you're right. The there, when you'restarting out right, this difficult to justify expenditures onto a head counter person todo this solely. Right. So maybe the initial early days of a startupyou might have your CFO, who can be that kind of minded person,right, that that ops minded person, or your coo even, who canhelp just coordinate and organize and manage the the Kepis are necessary to be effective. But as you start to get sales people, as you start to getlayers in your business right and you start to have your hands in multiple pots, it becomes more necessary to have somebody who is your right hand person whois your extension of you, who can...

...help make sure that the machine isoperating correctly. Right, whether you're if you're starting to get into complan design, you starting to get into the the you know, the effectiveness of yoursales funnel. You's going to get into your onboarding and your lifetime value andall these different functions that start to become more repeatable and more scaled, thenyou probably need a person at that point, or team at that point, beingon where you are. So, to answer your question, I thinkit is a little bit based on where you are in your growth, yourlife cycle, but it might also be based on revenues. So if you'regetting to like a two million dollar, a ror, three million, fivemillion dollar are are you're probably going to need a person at that point dedicatedto it. Once you get to tend to, you know, fifteen million, you might need to get multiple people and then just scale up from there. You'll you'll start to realize it because it's more complex, right, thesystem become more complex, the sales process becomes more complex, the COMP becomesmore complex, and so you'll start to realize when your team starts raising theirhands. As I'm done you know it's time to add people. Yeah,and I'll add to that right. I think your last question was what doyou do if you don't have somebody in that role? And one of theplaces I like to tell people to really start is focusing on your customer journeyand that's where you're getting all of your leaders from. Your go to marketteams that we mentioned before involved really evaluating all of the different handoffs, allof the different communication and potential places where your customers could fall out in churnor places where you're missing on that opportunity to accelerate growth with any of thosecustomers. So I think that is if you don't have someone dedicated and thatrole, I think it's a great place to start to understand your revenue operationsjourney. Okay, actually have one more question. They are just came fromwhich you just saying again. I'm so sorry, we're going to run outof time. We are currently thinking as a business about building up what wewill be, I guess we will call a customer advisory Blot the getting ourcustomers to come and I think we've got quite a good clue about what wewant to do. But we always want to beat our services or to thinkabout things that we may not be doing or saying in the market. ISTHAT TO REV UP SCROLL? Should it be someone in revenue ups that thatwould get that completely insane? Well, okay, I'm going to grow allthe things internally. I'm going to get all the functioning done. They needto have that that great level of communication, make sure the customer journey is fantasticand streamline for the customer. But is there also an external role ofcreating that community of customers, getting them to Spik, getting them to extendand and in fact I think that's a sort of a very honest feedback fromthe ouss mouse. I have an opinion. Like I can go first of thisone. I know, I do not think this is revenue ups.So this is your this is your customer experience, customer success. You know, VP, whoever owns the customer right, whoever owns that, that that experience, owns the customer advisor report and actually probably in concert with your CMO, right, those two probably need to work together because the feedback are goingto get there is going to influence how you go to market and try togenerate more interest. Right now, however, your revenue ops person definitely has aseat at that table and it's very interested in how things and in thefeedback that the customers are giving because it influences potentially where you can find opportunityto improve the process. But the ownership of that is with your your vpof customer success or client success, in my opinion. Yeah, I lovethat answer. And Mark I love that you put the CMO or the marketingteam in there, because that's really where you start to move away from thissingle flow funnel approach and really start to get into that fly wheel with yourcustomers to help them circle back with marketing and really help accelerate that growth.Yep, well, I'm to connotive debts.

Just make sure that they implement that. You deny the thank you so much, gay, for sharing whatyou're in say today with all audience. He was was really good. I'mone of the question that we ask at the end of each a piece ofthat we recall these. I'll do we get in touch with you. Soif someone wants to carry on the conversation with you, mega and and allspeak about mainstain pulp mails and which you could do for the business and weyou mock if someone wants to, you know, get to Inverte for abit of constructency and potentially bought some gaming doing orders function to get us againagain get the Rev ups bullet at of the you know, the sea wasthe best way to get in touchrees you, gays. Yeah, I'd love tocontinue the conversation. The best way to get in touch with me islinkedin again, Megan Hines, or you can follow mainsale partners for some additionalbe tob content and and for me again, you can find me on Linkedin.I'm at Mark Telly, so it just to mark em Er k Kellyand then you can find us online at new edge growthcom right. Wow,thank you so much once again, gays. He was an absolute big out tohave you on the post. Thank you. operatics has redefined the meaningof revenue generation for technology companies worldwide. While the traditional concepts of building andmanaging inside sales teams inhouse has existed for many years, companies are struggling witha lack of focus, agility and scale required in today's fast and complex worldof enterprise technology sales. See How operatics can help your company accelerate pipeline atoperatics dotnet. You've been listening to be tob revenue acceleration. To ensure thatyou never miss an episode, subscribe to the show in your favorite podcast player. Thank you so much for listening. Until next time.

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