B2B Revenue Acceleration
B2B Revenue Acceleration

Episode 130 · 2 months ago

130: Simplifying Sales Emails: Creating Compelling Campaigns

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Sales emails do not have to be complex, nor do they have to be particularly lengthy - in fact, the most successful campaigns tend to be those that cut to the chase. They’re quick, concise and tailored to the recipient.

After all, the key decision-makers that salespeople target are unlikely to have the time to read a detailed, novel-like email. This rings particularly true if the content isn’t relevant to their specific needs and pain points. You must grab their attention and pique their interest in just a few short sentences, a skill that is much easier said than done.

Sales emails have long been part of every salesperson’s toolbox, but it's a skill that can take time to be developed. Creating compelling email campaigns may be the goal, but they can simply be taken as spam if not created correctly.

In this episode of the B2B Revenue Acceleration podcast, our host Aurelien Mottier (Co-Founder and CEO of Operatix) is joined by Ollie Whitfield (Growth Marketer at VanillaSoft). They discuss how best to go about creating compelling sales emails, including best practices for structure, language and eye-catching subject lines.

To hear this interview and many more like it, subscribe to B2B Revenue Acceleration on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, our website, or anywhere you get podcasts.

You're listening to be to be revenue acceleration, a podcast dedicated to helping software executives stay on the cutting edge of sales and marketing in their industry. Let's get into the show. This podcast is sponsored by Gong. Gong empowers your entire go to market your organization by Operationalizing Your Most Valuable Asset, your customer interactions. Transform your organization into a revenue machine, or unlocking reality and helping your people reach their full potential. Get started now at Gong dot Io. Hi, welcome to be a review acceleration. My name is and I'm here today with Holie Whitfield, growth marketer Adventu less stuft. How are you doing today? All the better for being here a nice nice to spend some time with you and speak about some code emails over it today. Are you doing abso luckily? Yeah, I mean the email in the toolboxes is a subject of controversy. So looking forward to discussing with you and discussing some of the technique and everything. But before we get going, you would you mind just giving a little bit of a gable to yourself and the company you representsoft yeah, so I've always worked in sales technology companies for some reason. I'm not sure exactly why, but with that you get to learn a little bit about cold calling, about cold email, about social media, outreaching, all those things. And I was a salesperson once upon a time, so I have done a bit of this stuff. And the topic we're going to speak about later on it it did start many years ago. I started off as an str I completely freestyled everything. I had no road map, I had no templates, I had no frameworks, I had no proper framework structure to anything I did, whether that be reaching out, whether that be to the phone call, the sales process, that anything. I just did it and sort of really learned the hard way, because you had to when you literally have nothing. And at one point I thought to myself, like I'm writing what I thought was quite a good email, very personalized, to a few prospects a day, but I was really mixing up I calls to Action, I was mixing up certain parts of the email which should be their own thing and and really the results weren't as good as I was hoping. I didn't get upset about it. I thought, you know, I'm starting. Is there I need to implumence something to help me make this repeatable, and that's when I stumbled a from a boss across, I should say, frameworks. So that's where we got to and the company, obviously my company, and other software sales engagement platform. And obviously, if you know what that means, you know that that helps sales represent their cold emails, it helps them stick to their cadence, it helps them follow our pails and do their cold calling. So very applicable to my team. And we spent a lot of time looking at our emails and core scripts. So pretty well versed in that at this point now. Yeah, well, I remember the days were starting as well as a video. Yeah, and I was pretty much in the symboled as you here. Is really stuff contact to go after. I mean, in fact, back in the day Linkedin didn't exist and for the CRM system we had to use like a c Dr Own, you know that you would put in down like it was all cool, but you had to install it on your motion and everybody. So back in the days, yell know, pages and and if you go and start to to to call people, and many emails were horrendous. You know. I've been looking at some of them. Maybe a few years later and they were like super along. I want you to tell everything to the prospect. You know all my life all the all the functionalities. Leyn't realize how it works at all. So very much looking forward to the conversation today. Well, well, let's get cracking ready. I mean everybody knows what email is. I think people have different perspective on the effectiveness of emales, which is always take with a pinch of salt, because obviously he won't as every single tool. If you don't use it effectively, your Hon't get great results. So as we get started, could you please share with us some too and don'ts of email outreach? Yeah, so it's it's funny that you say that people have different opinions on that. I recorded a web but or not very long ago, with Devin Rade from Gong and he he went through some of the research that he and his team have done about a call to actions and just generally speaking, what is the...

...performance of email inside of a deal and as a complete cold outreach touch, and a lot of the feedback he got on that content, just as as an article on their website, very polarizing. So some people treat it as the silver bullet. They believe what is Said Is Gospel. They go with that and it's fact. And then some people they just question it to the end of the earth. Is this about the right job titles, right industries, locations, all of it. So, so it really has append there's a lot of, you know, a lot of variables to all of this. So that's the that's the fun thing. You kind of have to take it and apply it to your own situation as best you can. But, dudes, I like brevity in my emails, so that means I don't like a big essay. Interestingly, though, again, I do a lot of webinars. So I had a couple of top tier experts in my opinion, Sam McKenna and Carl Common, had them email me and we went through it on a Webinar and we and we broke down what did they do, why did they do it? I had the chat raide them and that kind of stuff. It was a close one, very close, but their emails were actually quite long and I thought that's really interesting because I normally like and normally, I don't know about you, when you when you're going through Linkedin, when you're reading stuff about cold event, it's normally. Normally you hear shorter, the better. Within reason. Obviously you don't want two words, but normally you hear something like that. And their emails as experts very, very personalized, and the court to Action was very unique to me, and even the bridge between court to Action and the trigger events that that was very personalized to me. But it was quite long and I thought, well, that that's interesting. So so a bit of a mix. What what I'm getting out there is I like brevity, but they did that style. So what I'm saying in a sense is your first email, for example, you're never going to just send one to leave it, try something and your next one do it different. So don't go like four or five emails in a row they're all very long. Mix it up. So you could have a short one, a long one, then the next one could have a video, the next one curves something else. So a bit of variables. That that's a good D and they don't obviously going very long. So all the close did an analysis. One of the first things I did in this job. We looked at over six thousand cold emails said using our platform. The longest one, if I remember, was six thousand words. In the body, which is eight percent of the second Harry Potter novel in length. If, if you believe that's that, and the subject I was fifty two words. So obviously things like that, when you're going way outside of what is what you have ever seen in your own inbox, that's just not going to do it. But a bit of an extreme example. But yeah, going too long. Make make sure nothing gets read. And my pet peeve, I'll say this one then I'll stop grambling pet peeves. Bullet points in emails. You've probably seen that Brazilian times, just like I have. If I'm trying to follow up, this is what I always go wrong. I normally use too much of my information first. So if I'm going to go with four, four pain points I want to hit you with, if I list all four of them, what have I got to say after that? I've used all of it. So if I just kill the world, want to talk about the first one, and then I saved the next three and I write my emails regarding them separately, I've got four emails, or maybe four or five emails and four or five calls and Linkedin touches and so on and so forth. Instead I've just thrown it all in the wall. One email bullet points. No one reads them, it's gone. That's that's my big one at the moment. So, Shaman, we've found a good at pointing emails. So I've been. I may have too. I may have to refi my strategically. Do you think there is a difference between North America and Europe in Tilm of what prospect like or responsetraight to different type of Emaales? You know, the reason why I'm skining is because do you remember it was a tactic maybe two or three years ago, where people would just put blank at the beginning of emails you had nohing, and then they would stop saying hey, and then you have to scroll down the gate. I find it extremely on the in and and and actually, you know, I do like an email that you're authentic, going to the point, you've done your research,...

...you are shocked and you tell me what you do, you tell me what you want. Tell me that you want a meeting with me to discuss what and what I would get out of it, and give me two times. Make It easy for me to book it right that. That's what I would prefer as a prospect myself, but I was recently. The cements were like extremely long and some of my guys in the US use that type of Fimil and actually found a lot of success. Right. It's like the Linkedin Post that you've got one sentence and I was all sentence on the list as a sentence to the list. It seems to be working and I don't really understand why. But do you think that there is a fundamental difference term of expectations or pressference depending on where you are? US, US Europe? This might be controversial, so call me out. Okay, I think a little bit that you the UK, speaking from from the UK, and Europe is a little bit behind North America. They have a little bit more technology. There's so many more companies over there that are very SAS centric and all that sort of stuff. Over here, I can name on my on one hand number of Saas companies that I actually know. So that maybe that's just me, but but that bubble effects that that really makes the US. I don't know what it is. I feel like there's a bit of an Echo Chamber and all of the advice and the best practices that they know and that they actually developed sometimes and they're implementing across all of these companies. I feel like you see it a lot more and it's a lot more cutting edge and a lot more up to the minute in terms of best practice, whereas over over in Europe police, what I have seen just my personal lens, we try and use best practices. Absolutely definitely try and do that. We're always trying to improve. We're just a fraction behind some of the stuff that they're doing, and sometimes that's because, let's say, a lagged market in the US. If I'm selling to into like a laggered market and they don't do email, I might cold call them and a very standard, basic cold call might just be the best way to do it. And you and you treat it as number escape. That might be the way over and over. In Europe that might be a bit more of the case, whereas in the US that might just be a couple of markets or some in particular. But the rest, it seems like, or at least I'm perceiving, you've got to be a bit more clever and a bit more advanced than you know. I think things are a lot more in that regard. So so what do you think? Are you saying differently all the same. Yeah, I mean I'm seeing different tactics. You know, the textiqus that have worked and I think we are, you know, dose tactics general all the time. I was speaking to someone about linkedin voice. Notes to linkedin voice was pretty cool. PS covid you would get people prospects. You will send the voice to a prospect. The reason why it's cool is because you need to do it on your on your phone. So if you are in a cold center and you are, you know, in a sequence without treach and stuff like that, potentially you may not be able to take your phone, go into the APP find really and leaving the voice. But they were pretty good because if you're if it's the first voice to curiasive, it's like the first video curacived, for the first video is said, what is that? Let's have a look. So at least you get the open rate and then, by the way, we have to come back to the subject line and remind me to get back to that. But I think you get the open rate. I think I'm scenical because I'm in the industry and our right in the semis and we're looking at the tactics. I think it would be useful to get the lengths of a prospect. I do agree with you. I think the US are probably a little bit more advanced, but also think that the US is also much more spammy than we are here in Europe and the prospect probably gets far more less qualitative interaction. And that lead me to believe you know, when there is when there is an element of spam or volume or whatever, technology is overused, and what I've seen in my lifetime of our technology being over used that people go back to the bloody basic. The bloody basic is a one structured email that is smart and this is basically what I would send one of our...

...professional at my level. That I respect that at the time to research and I will try to be pertinent and I will be on bolding the fact. Look, I'm trying to be pertinent, but I don't know if I've got it. But I believe that you've got to those issues right because I've been compodies in your situation or individual I C P in your situation suffering from the same issues and we've got a really good way to solve it. So I agree with you that I would probably not put that into an email, but but that's how I feel about the US right now. I think everybody is trying to be too smart sometimes, and when I've got the opportunity to speak to prospect they don't want smart. They was okay, you've got a product. You're clearly trying to get some of my time. Right, help me what I'm trying to do. I'm trying to put you on the map. What exactly do you do and what makes you unique? That's the other people who do something similar out to you, and you've got to be able to articulate that relatively when and quick Lee. And that's the difficulty, I think of writing an email. The difficulty of writing an email is how can you succactly summarize of every proposition? And then I like your idea of cutting it down so longer and need answer to your question. But I think when I look at the emails and all the different taxic and I get into conversation, of course some of them will work and someone, someone will smile because they got hey, I got a coffee about show whatever attached to the email or your there is a caddle link, so I can go ahead pick up something I was five years ago and I start cool Aymore. You know, you have some cool sign that show you've got lots of things that you can do to make it a bit different from a look perspective. But at the end of the day, when, when, when I have conversation with syllable people or of decision makers, they want efficiency. They don't want personalization, they want pertinence. You know, they don't care about the page you went to the same university, or you should put the same soccer or football or baseball team as them, or you know, I get tons of things that people saying, Oh, yeah, your last podcast was fantastic. Right, I didn't really listen to that. No, but they just, you know, they just obviously traded to get my ego going, which is one of the tactics. So I think you need to have people who receive a lot of females to probably teach people who want to send emails how to do it. And when you reach from the prospect, my feedback and never left it, but partually North America will have been part of like prospect, but or recently on the topic is just be pertinent. Just just tell us what you want and give me the option to say yes or no and in a way get to the point, but you might not work in on markets if you go two or three other down and you're trying to get a meeting with an influencer. Maybe that cool email with you know, like that new technique that you've got on Linkedin, on whatever training platform, may work, but end of the day, solid subject, two people open it and then solid open here. I'm research. I've researched too. You are not. It's not an automated demail. Have that. Do it with thousands of people. Is Pretend in the way. And then I tried to be pertinent by by making epothesis of pain that you are facing based on result that I've done, and I try to tease you is how we solve it. And and and that's that's how I would go about it, based on the feedback I received. And actually I will do that work. But that makes sound a little bit all school, you know, but it's for me. That's what works. And when I sent my emails I get a good response raight but I would not send an email to someone I'm not convinced we're ready. Then not response. So I need to convince myself that I'm like a box. Are Going on the ring or the M fighter. I'm not gonna God. I'm thinking I'm gonna get destroyed. I'M gonna go, I'm gonna Only God. I think I've really a good chance to do it, which I think is also important, and that's what all the preparation for me of that email. But it's not just email, it's your whole sequence. You know the email is when...

...doing so, if you're prepelled, you're can cool, you pre do, you propere fily everything, but that preparation is really key and d you are actually going in the organization. Yeah, you're actually going. Some of deal value. The more important that is. Well, it's funny you say that you treat it like going into a boxing ring. Would you get into the ring with that person if they were going to destroy you? Obviously you would not. What I've been trying to do with our sales reps, particularly for some of our best target accounts, are a B M list. We're writing emails on the level of that. You're you're almost asking why on earth do we not work together? Yet we're finding those ones where it makes it that much sense. Then it's just easy. It's like a normal email between colleagues. Instead of a cold email, whereas I feel like the cold email, you're you're in a different mindset. You're you're like trying, you're actually really trying to convince and you're you're doing it so intentionally, whereas when you're just emailing a colleague because it's a task, you're just doing it and it happens. We're trying to treat it a bit more like that. If we have and we can find that much reasoning, that makes so much sense, it's gonna work value. You're not interrupting. I'm not interrupting all this day, when all your is that email, no matter if you respond to me or not, is interested in my meeting or not, is going to be. Oh Wow, okay, that's interesting. I have information to give you. I've got educational content. Not contacted, would attached, but I will put something in there that it needs to be of value to you. You know what I mean. So I'm not interrupting your day too try to sell you something. I am giving you value. I'm actually enpy you to realize that there is something available that I could do fantastically well for you, potentially in your organization. So that's reframing of helping versus just being an entrance is very big, because it's it's like it's like spots psychology. I mean, if you go back to the boxing things, you you need to reframe to a positive value of what you are doing. That's just Ah. You know that gave with resiversign. But then, you know, for me the worst is the people who are blessing. I received emails from my competitors asking me if I need the paper generation and support two grammy business and that that's a big no no. You know, when they take at least and they're just like blast. That's where I don't get. So you you, we we kind of spoke about demail structure from my perspective. Okay, maybe I shouldn't let you go first. Well, what's? What's? How is your perspective difference from my? Dame of the structure? You would like to use it, and I appreciate what you're saying. Or is that you may have differenttimated the block right, so you may probot them in a different work. But what? How? How would you structure them in the best possible way? So what what I went and did? Anyone could do this. So I don't proclaim that it's my own. I went on to Google and I went for cold email frameworks just so that I could help myself right to a consistent framework, let's say framework. Don't think about template. Template is High Ali, I noticed that you are the growth marketer out for the littlestoft. Do you have a podcast insert my company about when can we meet? Calendar link. That is not a framework. That's just a crap. Email. Framework is something like what to say in which sentence order and then, basically, like if I could draw without using words, what would the email look like? So, for example, Josh Braun, but probably somebody you've seen on Linkedin that I follow him, he's got his own framework and it's called the t t t t t email and that is the trigger event, third party validation. Teach me and tell me, and that's him trying to tell you how to write the email. So do you begin with your trigger event? Your Second Party is your third party validation, and so on. Those are all on separate lines and that is how he writes his emails. Why I do that? And I've I've subconsciously become quite good at just doing that format. anyways, now, because I've I've spoken about it a lot and I think it's a good one. Why he does that is often we're just like freestyle. We just think right, I'm reaching out to them because reason and I...

...want this, and I noticed that. Jumble it all together and it becomes a really jarring, not well flowing email, and that's what I used to do in my early days. I used to go something like Hey, I love your podcast and I saw that you have this thing and also I'm doing that thing too, and we we had that same guest on and also we do this and what we meet and the prospect is probably very confused and it's too much. It's not in a bright order, not a great email. So the point of a framework is not to tell you how to write, is to tell you kind of what to write, but in a way that will actually work better than you just throwing something it's it's being conscious and not unconsciously throwing something up just because the amount of times that we do this, we especially if you're personalizing stuff very well or if you're finding a lot of good research to make it relevant, you will have to structure it a little bit differently. You will have to change what you say. It's employ is just kind of Oh, instead of your hiring three people, oh this account they're hiring severn, so I'll change that work. That's not really doing anything different. So so I just started to look for those. So there's plenty of them. So I said, Josh Braun's, that's one. There's Aida, which is a I d a. that's a very well known copyrighting one. So if you've ever seen a billboard, which I bear you how, you have seen an Aida Billboard. That is how they write copy. If you've ever seen it added a newspaper. Sometimes they use ada to write that, and it's basically attention, interest desiring action. There's normally a big attention grabber at the top of any billboards. Then there's an action in the bottom right corner somewhere something like that. That's one. There's there's problem, agitate, solution, obviously B and a and s that there's be a b before after bridge. That's probably when you get a lot. I'm getting a lot of those at the moment. I got a few of them, but just just right into a framework I always find really helps me out. So I don't think I answers your question very well there. Did I no, no, you did. I mean, you know, the difficulty of the question is to depend on who you are targeting. All right, if you're targeting I think it sounds the CFO. You may want to have a different ton of female if you're interacting with a sill level person versus a deputy of a deputy of a deputy person. If you're saying something for Five K, they are are virsuits three million a r? And also it depends on the multi buying personal potential journey, the complexity of the deal. You know, are you disruptive? Are you a commodity? Al Right, so, are you bringing something new to the market and people may want one, but they will be looking at each other and so, okay, with's paying for it? L suits? Well, you know, I've got one, so do I need to replace it? I think the tone of female. I agree with you. I think there are lots of things that are available. There is lots of frameworks. I think thinking that there's a silver bullet is not right. In fact, I think what has worked for me is priority to take different methodology and kind of mixed them up together and try to come up with something that kind of bring, you know, meeting back home but the the things that I know that when I present to a good email, I know it's a good email, and you know that if you send a good email, your response rate will be high. And what I'm saying hi is pretty much, you know, around twenty if it's done properly, if you crave them properly, if you spend the time to not just do the lazy stuff of or you are looking on servees, Nlegat or class doom the people that are recruiting or whatever, and I try to be Smad, basically all you are based in Montreal. Well, guess what, I've got an oncle living there. This is fantastic. Now we have friends, let's get a bitting together. I think we need to do a little bit more than that. And and and I believe that prospect also appreciate the fire that you can't make hypothesis of their pains. You know also, and particularly as you are going disruptive. I think that's that's important, because you're almost trying to tell them in the best polite way, that there is a better way to do something they already doing. Okay, so it's it's really about this is what I see in the market Oh, this is what we've been we really days and...

...this is what all dwards with the new aren't so all those things, depending on what you are saying, I think, would dictate a different structure and I don't think there is one sage fits sour. So I do agree with you. I think people need to look at what's available. You need to play, you need to experiment, you need to measure and then try to replicate what's successful. Basically, so something you said that I now actually need to take my notes and throw them away. We do them because the five frameworks that my team normally rights to the our five favorites, picking some out of the Internet that we liked. We try and mix up our cadences to right to various ones of these frameworks throughout that as I said, basically we don't want to write the exact same thing ten times because it's obvious no one cares and if you don't like it the first time, you're probably not gonna like it on the night. We mix it out. But let's say, for example, my my p a s problem, agitated solution, just like you said, champion level, probably could work. Big CEO, huge company. You will not sell them a problem that they have and maybe they don't know that they have it. That's your that's your weight it, but you're not really going to agitate it and you're not going to tell the something that they don't know so much. So probably, like you said there, I think that's a that's one problem with frameworks. Actually, I have not thought about it until just now, but you can write any template, any framework the one, but it has the bent. So so, as I was saying, problem agitate solution champion version is very different to problem agitate solution decision maker version a big company. But just to pick two different ferries, sort of the same thing there. So yeah, so, yeah, definitely, like even using a trigger event, the trigger event obviously could very much change dependent on role and type of company and what actually has happened in that in that company or market. I would never say to you that you're hiring two SDRs because maybe you're not involved in that adult. Maybe it would be some that like help spot data tells me that meetings and now being more by co calling than email this week. Right. If that's true, maybe maybe you would care more about that. Do you know? It's those things the best triggered I've seen rearly was been working again and I'm thinking very about when the Explo and C I. We we tried to, because we've got to framework and we work with our clients and all that. But and you need to be able to do it. When I was a Bidr, I used to love having conversation with my as so and they would tell me about all the meetings they are going to it. Back then I was I was working the French market. So, you know, I would be working with an a and it would come back and say, Oh wow, I got that meeting with BNP Pariba. I met with the CIS group and you know, I realized a doubt sourcing everything to I D m. But so so we wanted to go with that angle and when we go to the meeting we realized that actually, that problem is that and I'm like this is called does man, because that's my reger. I'M gonna go to all the people and can I use the world? You know you can. I mean you can just say what. We've been speaking with one of the big one of the Big Five Bank and the conversation we were completely wrong. We wanted to go and tell them about this and that, which is traditionally what we've been doing. But what we realized? We realized that the big part of the infrastructure was being outsourced and the real issue was the human kept. It all around that and what's happening with people, and this is how we can help around that. And I know that you've got responded to my previous notes, but that just and the number of people who are responding to okay, now you're at my level, you're speaking to people like me. You really do it. It's that's really what good from my perspective, as a trigger. That's always been the trigger that works the best for me. Is I just realized something else. I'll just realise something that told you with someone in your industry that kind of compete with you and this is the issue that they're facing. And you may at a meeting because they want to know what's going on done there.

And you know, everybody looks a little bit of their competitor and they may say, well, I may meet with Ali to Ondersand what they're doing, because we're thinking about our team. So you may not get the meeting for the right reason, but there is a sort of follower like ship. What this guy is the way. You know, can we spend falterious to discuss about it and how use of that problem? Because if you can solve the prime for those guys and you're having meeting with them to solve their poem, maybe you can serve mine as well. So it's always been a good trigger for me too, all the bd deal and listening to us to really create a relationship with d a s and not just get feedback on the meeting you said for them, but all the world stories and use those world stories. People like to be told the story. I believe I want to ask you something. So I've had the spoken about quite a lot similar to what you're saying. Yeah, but not not about what the accounting is active or your colleagues have been able to find out what the prospect is, what you've been able to find out yourself speaking to other people in that account. So I say I want to call you write. What happens? What would you say if I'm if I find out a couple of things from your str team, just picking something up and I noticed there's a B and c going on, whatever it might be, and then I email you and I call you, go through my kids with you and I say, look, I just want to let you know about one, two and three things that that your team have been expressing. And obviously it's not really bad like that. They think you're terrible and the company sucks. It's nothing like that. It's just stuff to improve a bond which you would care about. You do you take that? Because I've heard this spoken about quite a lot. I think it's very difficult to do it in the right way. You don't really want to be digging up there and be seen to sort of try and find the headline, because that's not it. But I think it can be used. I think a meeting every day with someone would just even if you start, I would ruse or no, I mean I woke up every day to the better company so and and, as the company is growing, trust me, keeping you off your eyes on the D D is difficult, you know, and we are trying to to do it, but you you're kind of building a plane or making a plane better or when you are in the air, so sometimes you've got issues and you've got to deal with it. And also we're managing people. So that for me is is a great trigger. We tried it for selfully so I don't think it's just me, because we tried it for our self and one of the videos we would do is to put an inquiries through a company we want to get in touch with and we basically don't get followed up for three days and then we would send an email to getting sent and say look, as an inquiries to the other to your three competitors, and here is the response time from the other. You clearly have an issue here. People won't buy your stuff. People hated it right. We had some very bad feedback. I had some CEO emailing me and stuff like that, and I find it bizzare because I believe that self, a oneness is number one quality of leadership and it doesn't mean that you've got to get phrases all the time right. I would actually respond better to you if you point out issues in the business. Also, as you telling me. Oh what you really is fantastic, because I think you are helping me if you are doing me to improve or if you're trying to go to a subject matter to sublute that improve me helped me to improve. That's just, you know, Brown nosing or you know, I don't need to be told that you know, it's just like you always look fantastic from the outside. You know when you are inside, you know what's going on, you know what you're working on. It never stops. So I think for me early that technique would work really well, but I've seen some people not feeling as good about it because you cannot expose something that's not working and it defends mechanism comes in and yeah, I've had if people send us a bad email, we we retaliate with our own email. Love retality as such, like it's a way I agree or anything, but we try and say, look like there's a better way, we can help you with this and that and so on. Yeah, same thing, and you would have thought and it's trying to help you...

...sell. But yeah, what's not to like there? Well, I think it's like you said, there's a bit of Friday that comes up and it's hold on, don't point the finger at me, and I get that quite a bit in our emails too. Sometimes that the ones that I receive. It's they're trying to do FOMO. They're trying to say marketing teams, like you haven't thought about this thing yet, and it's almost like we've missed out we're stupid. One Way to upset me is to make me feel stupid, so that one never works. But but if it's like you're showing me something new that not everyone knows and it's not just me that's missing out, it's different that it's such a subtle difference. But yeah, I have tried that whole Um and I've actually done the one that you said to where you go through their inquiry system, never hear back and then you say look, that's broken. What's going on? Yeah, and it's it's absolutely mad that you've got to send our marketing need or just saying to you will leave me alone. Your Business Are you know? We don't. We would never work with a company. Lad You so well. If I was in their shoes, I would say it's okay, well, okay, good. Thank you, well done, because I didn't see that. I didn't put an inquiry myself and you got me there. I'm feeling a little bit of shame, you know, I would. I would. You know, you feel a little bit of shame that they actually you get somewhat smarter, that done something and just realize something is that working? At least give them the time to explain what they could do, because even if you don't want to buy their stuff, you could get some best practices and it could help you to steer the shape. But sanks for wellness and accountability is there are two of the value that we we have to define what, what, what a good person needs to poetics and the people that we developed. Some people don't have it, some people don't like to have it and you know, you get them on the bad day, they've got some bigger issue. They think it's not a big issue. But put yourself in the shues of the prospect right, if I put an inquiry to any ourself, then all your completitors, they can tell you something. The person that's respond to me the first, and maybe it's because I work in the industry and like that, but the one that's respond to me the first and give me the best explience in the search process are likely to get made. But you don't know, right they're like they're likely to get my bugrself there. So I don't know. I think everybody is different. But with your technique, and by the way, if you know anything about the proticts, of mentioned that on the podcast now. But as we don't just give me on the thing that they need to know and get fixed. But because there are enquiry system I confromise you I'll be reaching out and we'll put them or I'll be on you within a minute. Yeah, we should try that on these shows, you know, every month and we keep, we keep, we keep touching to make sure that now that you have different names. So we don't know absolutely you're coming back to we discussed earlier on about the subject line. I just want to come back to that very briefly. I mean, I think there is a lot of bad quality here. Against someone sending an email from the first time ever, do w youtube points and you know, like the forwarding you something which that's very much starting the relationship on the bed. You basically start engaging with me by laying to me or trying to manipulate me. I don't like it. So so there are lots of things like that going on. People putting something words drastic pency to get you to a band and you've got nothing insight. What are your advision creating a competing subject link? This is one where, if if I say the words about subject line, words lengths, like don't have a very, very long subject line, people just say yeah, I know that, but because we all do. But my stats show that works. So it was very close between what would work best. Two words, three words and forwards. I wish I could have gone into this much detail, but I have a strong theory that the ones that had four words, they were small words. They weren't big long words of like ten letters each. And the reason is, and we measured that by open rate and reply rate, so across both of those metrics, those lengths of subject lines did work better on our analysis. That's because I believe with that. Let's say I've got two words in my subject line and it's your podcast, just picking something up. That's not that long. You in your Gmail, you will definitely see at least all five, six, seven, maybe eight words of my...

...initial email. After that, before you open it, I called a preview text that everyone speaks about it now so that it's the new thing. If I've got decent relevance impersonization in their email, you've got like a double wireme that you can see your podcast is a subject line. You can tell what it's about, but it's not really detailed that you don't need to open it and you've got a bit more of the preview into what's going to happen. So then you will probably open it. So that's good. But, like I was saying about the Webinar that we did a while ago, so I had the two experts email me. Their subject lines pretty long. So I thought, hold on a second. Everyone talks about how you've got to have a short subject line, how it's got to be very crisp to three four words, but there's was six and seven what they were doing and why it worked for me and it was very personalized to me. So again, this doesn't really work on just a but two thousand people in a cadence and let it go. They were doing stuff, like one of them said, the river Medway, which is literally I can see it out my window right there. It's the it's the medway river in my town and guarantee you I've never had an email about that ever before. A little bit of novelty, and he had a couple of other words on the end of the subject line, but with that one it did stand out for obvious reasons. It's clearly only me is getting is going to get that one. So that one was one the other one. So Sam uses her own the little man, show me, you know me. So in that one she picks out three things, and I quite like this one. But it can go wrong if you get random things. For example, she's picking out things that are totally unrelated to each other about me. So it could be she has a mutual connection with me. So she might name them and then it might be a recent event which I did. So so we did a virtual conference and it was called Giver Con. So it's the person that we both know, and then comma, then give a con comma, and then something else that she's also found. It could be sometimes people do their own company names. Sometimes it's like linkedin post or whatever it is. But do you then put to to explain that? That said, I wants to grab your attention, so you know, and now you are already here. Is what I want to drop some because I guess you've got to explain what you do these things. Say. How do how do you go about the first paragraph then now, or do you just do that and then you go straight into your your your your very problem in the in the body, in their emails. That was what their first bit was. So their first sentence, or so that was. Yes, so the river medway one UM. He used some contexts about saying years ago the river medway was the only way that any talent would get money. It would be the center of Commerce and Training, all that sort of stuff. Now the technology is involved and he segued into how things work nowadays. He had quite a cool segway that. That's pretty cool. Yeah, that's pretty cool because it's not too cheesy like and if you're probably look at it and it's like, Oh, you've made a depart too. You probably went on Google map, did something, went on the wikipedsia, put some stuff together. You really want to talk to me. You made a really conscious effort to speak to ministries, to the meet your Robert. So yeah, okay. But the cool thing about that so I asked him and he told me and now I thought about it, I thought that map, that's just so easy. How did he find out that without spending all day? It's actually really easy. He went on my linkedin profile and he saw the town. It tells you where everyone's living. So if for some people might say do y'rk, okay, a bit more difficult. You can't say the Brooklyn Bridge and they don't live anywhere near it. But if someone lives in suberbitare like I do, I've got maidstone in Ken in England, then great. Just put maidstone into Google. You will find the River Med where, you will find what's here. You'll find madstone United Football Club, you'll find the library whatever. He just did that. It took him twenty seconds. He went on my linkedin profile, like you should with anyone, saw that and he saw my job title, to which is something else that he used. So it's you know, once you build the muscle memory, once you've done it a few times, once you've done your reps, you can get really quick with that stuff. So so already s but that concussion is very much...

...about people doing the job properly right. It's it's about using the tool properly. You can give me an ax and I can do some very stupid stuff with that. Oh I can actually use it properly and cut wood and cut a lot of woods and be very you know, basically a lot of but like, I don't know about that energy, but there you go. I'm trying with the x. But what do you think it's opening in the market? Because what do you think is so many spam? I mean, I still receive a lot every day out people just literally send in me an email or you've not saying I wanted to bump that up. If you're not respected to my previous one, you must be busy. No, you just you don't even just scrap. I'm not interesting that. Will never be interested in that. You don't even have the right guy in fifty percent of the case or sixty percent of the case, and I don't know what you want. Most of them actually don't respond because I'm like, I don't have any any d what would be the agenda of that meeting? You want a meeting with me. You're want the most precious thing that I've got, which is time, because I'm never going to get it back, and you're not telling me why. That's bloody sentfish. But so that that's by the stuff. So what do you think it's opening with technology, and what do you think is happening in the market? If you meaning there's a bit of a problem which is really difficult to solve because you never know. There's no tangible sign apart from just the obvious things like it looks like we're getting better a plrates. It looks like we're getting better email rates, all those things, booking more meetings. It's really the messaging. So and it's amplified when you get a volume. If I if I send ten emails a day and I get now replies, you know, okay, bad day. If I send a thousand again that replies, it feels like, oh my God, that's terrible, but really it's the same thing. So it just feels worse with all of the speed technology. I think it's messaging is this huge thing now. So your your email where they're saying whatever they want to say and there's no real agenda and all that stuff, and then they follow up and they do the like what are your thoughts? Email, all of that stuff. They go through ten, twenty touches, they call you, they linked in, you don't engage or maybe you tell them no, one are interested. After all of that, what's happened is they've done that to hundreds of people and the same things happened maybe a couple of bit. What they didn't do, or what they maybe not done well enough, is the first thing that I did in my job, the first thing that our reps now doing their job spend like a week, two weeks. I mean the whole week, don't do anything else, sit on calls like this and speak to customers and people are like them. That's it. That's literally it. So when I joined this company I had three pages of notes of content, ideas and things I wanted to do based on my assumptions, and I knew the company very well senior for years and I know the space. When I did those phone calls for about two weeks, I promise I got rid of every single bit of the whole notepad. It was all wrong. None of it actually landed with any of the customers. I was really embarrassed. I was asking them so like, do any of these make any sense to you, like would that be interesting at all? And they all just think no, like your most but it's not like that. And what what they then got from them? You know now translate into it everything that we do. So I was that far off and that's how much I actually knew about the company going into it. Never mind, that's quite rare most of the time. If I was to jump to another company now, I probably wouldn't know as much about them as I would have known this company coming in here. Yea a massive disadvantage and that that really translates into the messaging. So to email you right now if I don't know our stuff inside and out and I've heard it from fifty companies like you, just like you, just for the reasoning for me to email you being okay, I got no chance. I'm really guessing. It's hard enough as it is when you know what you're talking about and you know exactly what person like you, the recipient of my email, is going through. Never mind if you're not absolutely sure. The hardest thing is, though, it's very difficult to know when you have that, because I would never email you thinking I've got it wrong. That's stupid. So no one does that. But it is very difficult to yeah, well, you know, there...

...is a lot of people I don't care about being wrong and they just think, you know what, a thousand email yesterday, you don't get any response. Let's do ten thousand tomorrow and see if I get something. Oh and it ten sunsand I got one response. I need to do ten thousand every day. I mean that's stupid, but I think there is a lot of people thinking that way. You know, it's a number game or the more the bigger the male list, the more the more response will get, I mean, yeah, and the more you're gonna damage your brands because you obviously won't be pertinent. You mentioned something very interesting. You can have come back to one of the thing that was describing as my own experience, which is really around. The way you will know how to be personate with people is by speaking to people in their shoes and also what their issues are. Okay, and I think now and again that's probably for all the BDSDA listening to us and people sending even in general in your company must have, or should have, or would have, conversational intelligence. You can actually listen to calls, you can listen to things, you can find use nuggets. You should have a setup where the A is asking questions about look, what are your changes? What what keeps you awake at night, when you get out of work and you drive back? You know whether you're thinking, what's in your mind? What is it that you want to solve? Okay, go and pick up these nuggets and get it from thers's mouth and use them again. I think this is this is brilliant, because I don't think it's complicated. I think he's doing the the important versus the augent. I think he's doing the smart thing versus the volume things. Is quantity versus quantity, and I would draw to us. Someone say, look at send ten men and I got two responses. When someone says said ten thousand, I've got two responsive. The Guy has got ten thousand and got two response he will be so concerned. It clearly means that something is wrong, that that is not right. Subject Line is not right, content of the message is not right, not called to action whatever. But probably everything is right. abably three everything is not right in that in that context, if you if you get such a small running time of response, we're getting to the end of the session. Really Bridges, but we could have probably carried on farm it felt like. You know, it was a very interactive session. So thank you so much for for your time with you today. We should probably do that again. And just a wrong number two. If anyone wants to get you got to find your online or to engage with the needle soft. What's the best way to get all of you? Everyone probably would say the same thing, but linkedin. Is that where I spare my time. So that's the one. I'm lucky that not many people share my name so I probably come up near the top, or hopefully first, if you put my name into into the search bar there and Vanilla soft dot com. Yeah, we're always doing loads of webinars and content and all this kind of stuff. So probably they linked in profile to freeze. I fin it should trade to send you an email and the relivant s contenance to the points. I will review it. I will send feedback. Whatever it is. I try my best to not just sit and talk about it, I try and live and reread it too. That's wonderful worlds. Thank you so much for your time today. It was an absolute pleasure to have you on this my pleasure you've been listening to B two B Revenue Acceleration. To ensure that you never miss an episode, subscribe to the show in your favorite podcast player. Thank you so much for listening. Until next time. This podcast is sponsored by Gong. Gong empowers your entire go to market organization by Operationalizing Your Most Valuable Asset, your customer interactions. Transform your organization into a revenue machine by unlock in reality and helping your people reach their full potential. Get started now at Gong dot Io.

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