B2B Revenue Acceleration
B2B Revenue Acceleration

Episode 132 · 1 month ago

132: Why Great Salespeople Are Made, Not Born

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Traditional sales professionals are often under the impression that you’re either naturally talented at the art of selling or you just don’t have what it takes to be successful.

Yet some of the best sales representatives are those that are nurtured and thoroughly trained, starting with just a passion to become the best they can be.

While there may be some traits and a level of confidence preferred when recruiting and mentoring sales professionals, great salespeople are made, not born.

Aurelien Mottier (Co-Founder and CEO of Operatix) sat do wn with Matt Milligan (Co-Founder or Uhubs) to discuss this concept.

Join the conversation as they explore how technology can help mentor people into great salespeople, soft skills that can be developed into first-class sales skills and why managers are an integral part of building a successful team or SDRs.

To hear this interview and many more like it, subscribe to B2B Revenue Acceleration on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, our website, or anywhere you get podcasts.

You're listening to be to be revenue acceleration, a podcast dedicated to helping software executives stay on the cutting edge of sales and marketing in their industry. Let's get into the show. This podcast is sponsored by Gong. Gong empowers your entire go to market your organization by Operationalizing Your Most Valuable Asset, your customer interactions, transform your organization into a revenue machine, or unlocking reality and helping your people reach their full potential. Get started now at Gong dot Io. Hi, welcome to be to be a revenue acceleration. My Name Is Owen MT and I'm here today with Matt Milligan, Co found dark. You Are you doing today, Matt, thanks for having me on the show. Absolute pleasure. So the topic for today is great sales. People are made, not born. But before we get started, would you mind just giving us a little bit of backgrounds to you know who you are yourself, Matt, but also the company you represent, your hubbs. Yeah, absolutely, Solo Guy. I started my career actually in the world of professional sports. So growing up was was sport mad. Wanted to be be a footballer, then an athlete and then a cricketer and then finally a Golfer and I ended up playing an elite level golf in my kind of junior years. That took me out to a professional golf tour in South Africa. So I played a season on the I G T tour down South in South Africa. Each amazing experience, incredible journey. Didn't ultimately, my professional golf career didn't quite pan out. I wasn't wasn't the next Tiger Woods, but learned a hell of a lot along the way and actually, you know, if I think back, picked up probably a lot of my my philosophies and and the way that I think about building business from the golf course. Had some amazing opportunities to learn from really successful business people on on the golf course. So I took that with me into the world of business and I was always, always enjoyed selling, always enjoyed building stuff, always, you know, even throughout my academic career. And then I ended up, you know, joining the world of consulting when I was told by my mom that I had to get a proper job, and so I went into e y and within six months came up...

...with a business idea. Whilst I was working at y and so built kind of pitched for for funding internally from the partnership there and built a business with any Y which was called the startup network. We build a marketplace for startup and scale up founders in Europe to help them raise money and then help them sell into enterprise and had an amazing journey there a period of four and a half years. Built the team, built a service proposition and worked with maybe three hundred plus go to market teams and their founders, and that was where the idea for hubs came from. You know, we, I think it. You Talk. We talk a lot as as founders, about pattern recognition and spotting trends and I definitely saw a lot of the same patterns playing out when it came to scaling revenue teams. So I saw that as a big barrier to growth for fast growth businesses. Sales enablement was a relatively new term back five six years ago and we didn't see a hell of a lot of options available to fast growth businesses, and so we've set to build new hubs to help solve that and you you. Hubs, as I mentioned, were sales enablement solution. We're focused really on helping series a plus founders and their sales leaders, you know, save time ramp up their sellers to full productivity quicker. And we do that using competency data to intelligently develop sales people. Makes Sense, makes past place. It was a fantastic story, first of all. So congratulations. We we always believe, I don't belief it's submit, I still believe it so if its submit, and still still very much in my mind, but that good athletes of sport people do become good sales people. And I don't know if it's if it's the a bit of training or the a bit of working as part of a team or the a bit of, you know, taking rejection. You don't play, you on the bench. Will you take it personally? Now you're going to think about it, go by in training and and try to get on the pitch next time. But it's very interesting. It's interesting that you went from, you know, group spots, collective spot, to to golf. Golf must be quite...

...lonely. You know, I'm not really good at golf myself, so you know, maybe when they can show you a trick or two. But yeah, and and what you've done afterward, you is is very interesting and I believe that there is real, real, real value proposition interests for a lot of people around the hubs, simply because, as we discussing the preparation of this podcast, there is a massive shortage in self talent. You know, you are lawyers, doctors that go to school to learn the craft, but there is no school now, university, no way to you know, from an institutional educational system. Our education system is institutional education system to actually learn sels. So it's very interesting that you guys have invested in developing rubs. Now, before we go, we're go into the details of how you do it and what you're looking for and how you get started and the process that you are going through. I just want to go back to the title of the the episode today and we're speaking about good sales. People are not born, they're made. So I just want to get your take on that. And then why do you think it is that way? Yeah, so appreciate the question. I must disclose as well. We kind of cheated a little bit with the title of the show today, Ray, because at the Sales Innovation Expo last year here in London, I delivered a keynote on the same topic. So we created a little bit of noise down there at the excel arena. We had some blow up inflatable babies which became a kind of strap blind for us as a business. And it's interesting right. I think there's a bit of a limited belief across a lot of, should we call it, more traditional sales professionals, that you've either got it or you haven't and sales is it's something you're naturally gifted and you cannot you cannot learn it and you know for what we stand as a as a business. We're really here to change that perception and prove that, you know, incredible, amazing sales talent can be built, it can be made. We aren't just born at sales people and to honestly, I'll start by casting our minds back in throughout history. If think about the history of sales, I think the first recorded,...

...you know, the first early record of of a sales transaction was like five thousand BC. You know, they were like bartering with the rocks and objects. You think about how much sales has evolved in in all of that time through different sales methodologies, different market environments, different expectations of buyers. The short of that that history is that sales has evolved and it's adapted a lot and and therefore sales people have had to evolve with those changing environments. Right. I think that just indicates that as salespeople, we don't we aren't simply born with the natural gift to do it. We have to constantly be evolving our skill sets, we have to constantly be growing and developing and improving our craft, and that's why, you know, the philosophy for us as a business and what we stand for as as founders of that of this company, is that we're here to help people realize their potential and develop and make themselves into great sales people. Good. Yeah, I do like the idea of the influtable baby and the or cod by they must have been crazing a little bit of disruption, which is always good. Okay, so I get that. So you can help people to develop their skills, you can help people to become better. You know, now to change a little bit the I D resentably, I've been doing some three sixty. Well, the feedback I got from my mentors were more about, okay, well, don't try to walk too much on your weaknesses, but try to concentrate on your strength because this is really only you can develop things. Walking on your weaknesses, it may not be good. That's that's one thing that I want to point out. The second thing is I do believe, rightly or wrong being, and please channge me if you disagreement, that curiousity is one of the traits that it's very difficult to teach people. You is a habit or you don't have it, but I think it's it's a behavior that is quite critical to become a good seales person. You need to be inquisitive, curious, and that that's just the one that I want to mention out of many. So so I guess my question to you is what sort of transwitnesses behaviors or skills...

...or such skills? What's the what's the stuff products? So you know, I'm not talking about the baby, I'm talking about the umbre in here. What what do you need that the bread to look like for them to actually move into sales and become good at sends? What would you be looking for in some of when you build the unions? The value of the qualities of this individual? Yeah, it's a great question and it's a great point you make. Gray you know you're you're quite right. There are for sure certain core competencies that we see in in high performance commonly. I'll share some of those in a moment. We've done a load of research recently with our partners at wiser elite, the recruitment organization. We actually put one hundred of the top sellers in a mere through our youthubs competency tool which we called the hopes. So we've got a lot of data in terms of what the common characteristics and competency areas are of those high performers. And you're absolutely right. You know, like curiosity, you mentioned, there is one that comes out really strongly. I think it's a very hard one to develop. One area which we assess, which came out as taught, was actually growth mindset. So the highest performing sellers have a really strong aptitude towards growth mindset. And for those who aren't as familiar with growth mindset, what growth mindset essentially means. As you are going back to our point we made around professional sport, we're need to this podcast. If you're listening to the spot us, you are working on your gross mindset. Absolutely, absolutely. You know, the growth mindset is about accepting failure and setbacks as learning opportunities. But it's about being able to bounce back and and come back stronger from those those setbacks, and it's also about adopting a marginal gains approach to how you develop, so understanding that improvements come not from drastic, overnight change but they come from those little daily, one percent improvements. So growth mindset would would be another kind of core core competency area. O to see one when we think about onboarding sales...

...people into a new organization. Product knowledge came out in the top three, having a deep understanding of your product. It's very hard to sell something if you don't understand what you're selling. And then, interestingly enough, another top three competency for high performance came out as time management at planning. Now, even you know a lot of salespeople that I know are high performance probably wouldn't consider themselves amazing time managers. But if you think about a core competency for a seller, you have to be able to run your day, you have to be able to structure your day effectively, that you have to be responsive to clients, you have to be good at following up and you have to be consistent and you know, without that ability to manage your day and your time effectively, it's really hard to consistently get results. Yeah, I agree with you interfect you and this is probably one of them. Stay management in planning. This is probably one of the biggest gap between the SDR Dr Ward which which we are at doprietics evolved in, and the a world so like. Obviously, when we speak about sens sends, is lots of different things. You could do lots of things in selves. You could be an inbound response person, which is more like a desk helping people navigating. You could be someone who's doing prospecting cold art, which is another skill set. Then you've got the people closing business, as you mentioned. You may be the very large organization where everything is cheaper processed. You've got one step to the other to the other. You go through a machine, you've got the playbook and you kind of have a little bit of you could probably put a little bit of your own of your own little spirit in the process, but basically the machine will dictate what the next steps and and then you've got probably the enterprise sells well. I think it's it's kind of the the even heaven of selling where, well, basically people, I think the artful part of sense is really at you cantually have a process there and particular when you're setting something disruptive and you're trying to get the first sell. that US why you need...

...to be like, you know, top of your game. This is are the gods of of selling really. But what we see? We see a lot of you know SDR that wants to become a it's almost like a you know, I'm a young boy. I was born in the UK, so not me, you I was born in the UK, so I should play football, Marh Bay, cricket. You know, I should play Rutby, because this is what the spots are available and I should do that because I'm a boy. Okay. So it's almost like it's in your head that you've got to do something because you're associated to something and it's almost the community, the group, that is reading you to to go there. So we've got lots of people who think that the next step for them is to become a but that time management and planning is often the gap right. So I was in the system. I used to plan my day, to do calls, to do things with send emails. I had my routine, but now my Rootin is completely changing. I've got a quota, I'm not getting reasons every day, I'm looking at meetings, I'm doing a demo every day and stuff where I'm getting your results potentially every three months, every six months, every nine months, worst casing value, every eighteen months. Okay, and we know that the longer the certain cycles go, the less you feel something when the dielectricy come, but you know they are missing that. Two things that they are missing is that sort of is the chemicals that are going through our body of the wind, which is not happening every day, but it's depending on the on the less often basis, on the more you know spread basis. And the certain thing is staate, management and planning. Do you get in front of it? You've got to target. How do I break it down? What do I need to do? That sort of journey is very difficult and what we found. My last comment on that is that it's actually tough because, if you think about it, you've got you've got two things going on here in the balets. You've got the market asking for junior I s to come on, okay, and of course you want to fish from that point of of SDR PDAS. That have been good, but the problem is that most of the company that need junior I do not have mentals, do not have the processes, the system, they don't, they are not.

You have, okay, don't like you guys looking at skills and competencies and stuff like this. So you know what, I'm gonna pay you a lot of money. Here is a target. Go and achieve your QUARTA. I may help you, but will I be on course with you? Will it be debriefing with you? Will be able to give you advice to bics and stuff and researching? And that's what's difficult, because I think the mentoring is one of the element of coaching is is very important, and not all sales manager a able to coach. So it's kind of leading me to a bit more about two days that you have. I'd like to under some more about your process. So now you've got the right person. Okay, what happened next? You know what. What was the journey from there? I'm sure there is a few, but but what happened next month? Did you make a number of great points there and and just to bring that to life, I think you hit the nail on the head there where where you talked about the importance of the sales manager. The sales managers really for us that you have observe an integral part of the process, so that the way that we think about this at you hubs is really the first step is is understanding what your baseline is. So, via baseline, what I mean is what does good look like for sales people within your team? What are the common competencies? You know, we spoke about some of the competency areas there across the board that are really important for success, but specific to to your business, your team, the product you're selling, who you're selling it to? What are the competency areas that your high performers have in common and what what does that baseline look like? Once you've you've got that understanding? You know that. The way that we do it is we have a seller assessment which we've developed over the past three years. We've worked with PSYCHOMETRICIANS here in London. Um. We're actually attached to London Metropolitan University based down in shortage. So we've done academic studies to help us build out the science behind our technology. We do it we put sellers through a seven minute assessment. That does as it gives us an initial indication of some of we call their natural strong...

...competencies, their superpowers, as I like to refer to them. We're good. That exactly the same the super bowls awesome. But then, you know, as as as they start ramping up, we we then involved the manager. So we actually have the ability for managers to do an observation of each of their team based on what they've seen and observed on core recordings or selling out in the field and by combining those, those two inputs with their KPI s. So then, you know, integrating with their crm and actually understanding how they're performing. We can now start to create this picture of where each salesperson is stronger, where the gaps are between that seller and that baseline that you've defined in terms of what good looks like. We can then really help managers hone in on the areas that they need to coach and develop each of their team members. And then, alongside that, you know, we do a bit of the heavy lifting for them. We have a load of content within the tool. We have development recommendations that we can make on behalf of manager is because, let's not forget, you know, sales leadership is a tough job. We wear lots of hats, there's not enough hours in the day. So really, you know, we exist and make sales leaders lives that much easier. Yeah, I agree with you. So, coming back a little bit on the topic of selection. So, you know, you mentioned streaky points where I agree with you. I think product knowledge, it's kind of straight for lots you know, and I guess from my perspectivities of product knowledge, of really strong interest of passion for the industry, because I think if you like something, you don't need to know how pushbikes are walking. If you like cycling, you're you know, you'RE gonna get to know it because you actually do that every weekend. So it's that's that's that's but I think it's it's a passion for the industry or passion for the product that that can be found. But curiousity and gross mindset. How do you suggest for any sense, leader, on listening to us today, that what should be the technique they used to assess that in when an interview process or always...

...is in that team currently right now, to see if they've got that. So look obviously there's very tactical things you can do in the interview process which helps you screen, you know, and if you've got a scorecard that you use, we always recommend clients roll out a scorecard to support the interview process. But again, you know, going back to that baseline. Once you have that baseline, that can help you build out a more accurate scorecard, because all of a sudden you're now screening candidates against that definition of what you know is good. So you you will now be screening against those competencies that are important for success, like growth mindset and curiosity. In terms of how you actually do it in reality, there are tactical things you can do within the interview right and there's been a lot of content written thought leadership on on this. But you know, if you think about things like growth mindset, you can interview around how they've overcome adversity. What if they started and gone on to finish? You know, how do they think about improvement? In terms of things like curiosity, you can simply assess how many questions they're asking you. And you know, the best candidates that I've hired in my sales leadership career have been candidates that interviewed me. You know, when you get to the end of the interview you think wow, like they're super curious. There's tactical things you can do like that. On top of that, you know we've our assessment her screens for natural aptitudes like this. There are other psychometric approaches in the market that you can test news. But one thing that I'll just add on on all of this is it's it's been really interesting to see how different competencies are required within different businesses for success. So this is one thing that we at you hubs are really keen to educate the market on. Is there's no one size fits all for success in sales. It's super dependent on what you're selling and who you're selling to. And just to give you an example of that, I went for lunch last week with the head of sales enablement at CANVA. Now was the incredible growth story. What they've done there like amazing, but they've, you know, the product led grow...

...that they've been able to achieve, but they've kept out a little bit on that and they're hiring a lot of salespeople now and I had a conversation. They use a very similar approach to what we do at you hubs. They use a psychometric assessment to screen for natural aptitudes and competencies, and the leader at Canvas said something interesting to me. He said, you know, the number one competency that we've that we've we've learned is most important for success at canvas natural introverts. So they look to hire natural introverts, people who are naturally reserved, I don't like to talk or shout much, aren't necessarily the life and soul of the party, because they've identified, through looking at their their gong recordings and their analysis, that the natural introverts listen more. They're better listeners, particularly when you're selling to marketing leaders. They've identified that that competency is the most important for success. I just thought that was fascinating and goes to prove how, by understanding what good looks like for your team can help you make so much better highest. That could also help me develop sellers in the right areas. I think you made a very good point here. The some Viet we realized very late because he was two thousand nineteen, two thousand and twenty. You know, as we got into the covid stage, we saw that best people are the gates were a bit loud. You know, you want someone with a bit laddish, you know, someone who has been has been playing football, is a bit loud, s good bent player, workout, you know, kind of like it. So it's gonna be a good addition to the team. And and you're right, just listed to speak modern they listen. They tend to like themselves a little bit more than they like Casa. So there is not a lot of empathy or emotional intelligence. And then as we as we got into Covid we realized that we had some very, I'm not going to say very average performer. People were maybe at a for me as much as we would like. We are struggling in an office environment, okay, and I think they were struggling in an office environment because they were. They saw that they were at list st two on...

...a consistent basis, judged on the consistent basis. So the small, intraveled personality, when they were tomb on their own doing their own faith, could concentrate on what they were doing. That's concentrating on what people are thinking about them. And we saw a term of the LADDISH, stereotypical type of sales guy would but actually have the production going down a little bit because they don't have the buzz of people looking at them, and the introvert would see there production going up. So we looked into that and we found something very similar. I'm gonna ask you a sifcues, only if you have the answer, because I don't know if you has a question at lunch. But how do you assess if someone is a naturally introvert on that? Because introvert is one thing. What? What? What? The midress is natural part of it. You know, how do you get sliced someone with really resolved how do you do it? Yeah, so I guess you know. That's the that's the secret source behind psychometrics. You know, by asking a series ease of of questions the sellers over a repeated basis, not making it apparent which question relates to which competency area, you know, we can start to draw out set of responses and start to build a picture around their behaviors. And you know, that's how psychometrics works and that's what our our technology is built around as well. So you know we're constantly adding new competency areas into our technology. We have sixteen core competencies now. That we look at. But what's been really interesting as well is the ability to benchmark sales people. You know, I mentioned the report and research piece we did we did recently on this topic. We've got thousands of data points now on seller competencies and we've also got seller competencies aligned to revenue performance. So we can now start to create an understanding, you know, for different industries, different sectors. What what is that baseline? You know, what is that definition of what good looks like? And you mentioned it at the beginning of the conversation ray round.

In sales we, you know, we don't have that industry standards. If you're a finance professional, you've got the CF a. If you're a salesperson, there really is not mutch. So you know, we at you hubs. In terms of our longer term goal and vision is we want to become that global industry benchmark. We want to create that standard of excellence for salespeople and then, along the way, help them understand their strengths and improve. Okay, so okay, let's say. Let's say I'm I'm listening to this podcast and I'm like God, I love the song of what what he's saying I love the song of a few hubs and what these gays? I'll say, when can they unbark with you do is it as the video, as the journey? Is it before that? Is it for people who have any team? Is it for people who are trying to get day to sales management, or is it the prell spectrum? It's a it's a great question and look, you make a great point again by honing in on the challenges of sales leadership. And quite often sales leaders get promoted into a sales leadership roll because they are a high performing I c the challenge with that is that leadership is incredibly different to carrying a bag and for any of us who have been on that journey we know there's a very little support for sales leaders in organizations and this is one gap that we've observed time and again across the industry. Sales leaders don't have much support to develop their leadership skills, to understand how to become a coach, how to lead from the front. So there's a lot of help that they need. A sort of a really big focus area for for us and what we're doing, and nowhere is that more acute than in early stage businesses actually. So if I think about you know, of our client base now are actually like series a companies who have a head of sales, but obviously a series a company haven't yet developed out your full revenue leadership team. So the head of sales really has to be a VP of sales, a VP of marketing and sometimes a VP of success as well, and an str manager and also close their own deals and and and and be...

...a player coach. So we're seeing like a real need for like series a heads of sales who are scaling a and SDR B Dr Teams just to plug a gap because also typically those companies can't afford enablement people yet to come in and do this manually. So that for us is like a really core time in terms of like a need for for you hubs. That said, you know, with the work we've done on competencies and how we're baselining sales teams, our biggest client today is zoo zoom in. You know, we're baselining their North American seller base as we speak, with plans to to globally baseline sellers. So it's a pretty broad spectrum of everything in between that. But we do specialize in B two B sales. But you know, so I'd say, you know, like the core is the head of sales. You're trying to understand how to build the best team possible, but you just don't have the time. And you know, that's the gap that we were plugging for them. Okay, do you have a path for as the VIDEA that wants to become an executive? Do you have a bus back the executive that wants to become Sam's vitals? So you have these baths when you can. Okay, yeah, exactly right. And you know, our vision on what we're doing is we call it enablement as a service. We want to help sellers and their managers navigate the career path. We want to help them develop from, you know, day one that they come into the team and develop and grow them right up to the day that they leave or or progress or promote. So you know, we we try to be that that body, that Assistant to help guide them on that development journey. So last point that I want to make I want to speak about technology. So, of course you have very exciting about what you guys do now great technlogy to support the development of your team. What ends would you put around you guys to be successful and what I'm seeing, what times I'm talking about. You know, automation. Crm, I think now he's a community. You need to have...

...once question of which one is the best of company. But is there any donation? Doing they conversational intelligence tour you know, what do you see as the ecosystem? Our successful sense mentioned, you know, Seri A and beyond tape of organization. It's a fantastic question and I get asked this every day by clients because their handscape is moving so quickly. You know that there's there's been so much investment in sales technology in the past three to five years. So I look, I would start off from from the beginning, right. So let's say you've just raised your series a founder lead sales has got you to a million are are you've hired that that head of sales to come and build out the function and the team. You may at that point have a small str function or you may have outsourced it to someone like operatics. You've probably then got one or two a's that you're bringing into the business as well to accelerate growth. At that point, crm or though, surprisingly, you know some businesses still don't have a property rum at that stage, crm will take as a as a given. Yeah, we typically see if they are doing outbound in house sales engagement technology will be the natural second tool that they'll add to that stack, something like a sales loft or an outreach. There's a number of other great tools of the market now as well. So sales engagement is the one that we typically see as as number two. I think number three just in terms of getting visibility over conversations if you're not using the cool intelligence features within those tools. Because I know both those tools that I mentioned do have see I. We quite often see companies invest in a specialist see I tool as kind of tool number three. Gong obviously have done amazing work and space and of growing really fast. We at U hubs are massive advocates of Germany, which is a UK based alternative. We use GIM eying here at you hubs and work closely with Tom and the team. They're they're they're great. So I'd say see I is it's often a kind of third too. And then it gets to a point where you're onboarding more sellers as...

...your business is growing. You're trying to figure out how to hire good fit sales people. You're trying to figure out how to develop them, ramp them up quickly and you're trying to figure out how to keep them invested in and developing. And that's really where you hubs tends to then come in, plugging in enablement as a service, and I'd say for the vast majority of series a companies, you know, the only other one I'd layer on top is obviously a data provider. Yeah, YOU'RE gonna need to to fuel your sales engagement tool with some some data. That's pretty much like a solid basic stack at series A. I think once you get into series b things get a little bit more complex and that's when the SAS spending really kicks off. But yeah, I think about it in terms of that, that kind of natural progression from series a up to series B. Yeah, that makes perfect sense. Well, look, Matt, thank you so much sight today've great conversation. I'm very exciting at tired of people maybe maybe speaking to you at some points gays, because we are we we are leaks some of the things that you guys are doing, but it's a little bit in silo. I think we we've got psychometric tests, but I don't. I don't think they are. I think that quite extend outs. I don't think that are really specially is two seals and we need to better ourselves. So we we we've done some tries but we got we're getting better now, but nothing is really getting to us the finish lines. So I'll be I'll be listening closely to those conversation see what what, what comes from them. If anyone wants to get in touch with you, Matt, to you know, get in touch, you know carry on the conversation, or wants to discuss about your herd and now hubs could add the organization. What's the best way to get all of you the adopt two? The easiest way to reach me is my addresses, Matt at you hubs Dot Code Dot UK and our website is www dot u hubs dot code dot UK. I'm always open, you know, my my diary is always open to speaking to sales leaders, individual contributors thinking about moving into leadership roles and also other founders. You know, we've been on a fundraising journey ourselves there at you hub, small four rounds of institutional VC money.

Always open to talking about anything SAS growth sales related sounds great. Well, thank you very much of our time today met you. Was An absolutely to have be on the show. Thanks, rady. Thanks for having me when you enjoyed it. You've been listening to B two B Revenue Acceleration. To ensure that you never miss an episode, subscribe to the show in your favorite podcast player. Thank you so much for listening. Until next time. This podcast is sponsored by Gong. Gong empowers your entire go to market organization by Operationalizing Your Most Valuable Asset, your customer interactions. Transform your organization into a revenue machine by unlocking reality and helping your people reach their full potential. Get started now at Gong dot Io.

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